Multiple PD nerf suggestions

[verydoge12]

Keep in mind : I don't think every single of these suggestions should be applied together.

 

Recently everyone, including myself has been complaining how the PD is overpowered and could use some nerfs so I came up with these ideas :

 

Idea 1:

Every rank should have 50% of their current armor. For example normal officer has 50 armor and he should have 25 and a swat has 100 and it should be reduced to 50. This would be more fair because the current way it is criminals cannot access armor.

 

Idea 2: 

Not every rank should be able to use all of the weapons, for example, A cadet should only be allowed to a pistol (This might be the current case not sure) , A police officer should be only be able to use pistols and a shotgun (not a MP5) and all the way up to a commander that could use any weapon.

Idea 3:

Remove unlimited weapons, the PD should have limited weapons that restock each week, maybe related to the treasury but not necessarily.

 

Idea 4: 

Remove the whole TeamSpeak thing, police should have more channels and fore example, main channel would be used for backup and bolo's etc and you would talk to it using M and a secondary channel that is used in a chase and you would have a different key to talk to people in that channel. You would be able to hear both of the channels.

 

Idea 5: 

Completely remove the snipers from the game, I know its a very fun weapon to use but lets be real its OP, and criminals have nothing to fight back at that distance.

 

Idea 6 ( don't think this one will happen):

We should be able to get the guns from the officers, I know this could be abused very easily but let's say you kidnap an officer (With a reason) and you have the ability to get his weapons with help of a staff member.

 

Idea 7

From what I've seen it's way to easy to become a SWAT the new SWATS are KOSing everyone and If I am not mistaken you need to be 1 rank above the cadet rank to apply for a swat. There are a couple of swats that know when to shoot and rp properly such as Paulo but some are just terrible 

 

 

EDIT : Just realized that there is already an active suggestion and some suggestions are similar to mine 

 

Edited October 14, 2018 by verydoge12

[AnthonyWilson]

I appreciate you linking mine in :)

 

[waffels852]

Idea 2 that's exactly how it is, cadets are pistols, same with PO1 then after that each rank gets new weapons.

[waffels852]

Idea 4 not only PD uses TS, MD uses it as well and we have to for code 0 situations, (crashing) and other situations.

[MrSix]

Hey there!

Regarding your first idea, me being in PD myself actually find the current armor state more than enough. If we do happen to get in shootouts, it's never really a 1v1 where the criminal has a disadvantage. Besides, the 50% armor is shot away in 2 shots, so it's really not all that strong.

 

Idea two is already a thing. You'll never see a cadet running out the station with a shotgun, mp5, sniper, AR,... Currently, it's that, when you get promoted to certain ranks, you get the ability to send in an application in order to be allowed to use a weapon. Those applications are very strict and weapons are not to be abused. If so, the officer should be reported and their weapon will be removed.

 

Idea three I'm not all too sure about. I think it would make it difficult to have a said stock of weapons with the number of officers we have. Besides, it wouldn't make sense to have officers ending up on patrol not being able to bring a weapon cause we're out of stock. That's just something that doesn't happen IRL.

 

Idea 4: Having both radios in-game, hearing both all the time, would be EXTREMELY annoying. Units not involved in a pursuit or SWAT or whatever tactical situation shouldn't be hearing what other officers are saying. We do have the rule that officers are to talk in-game and on TS at the same time, to make it fair. 

 

Idea 5 I do not agree with. Snipers are only used for very tactical situations by SWAT and usage is strict. We don't allow people to take out the sniper and begin shooting at you. Again, we're very strict on that knowing how strong they can be. 

 

Idea 6: I only agree with good RP being rewarded by admins handing you the weapons you take. Officers are currently victims of "gangs hating cops and thus willing to shoot them for no good reason" and you having the ability to take our weapon wouldn't really better that. I have many concerns with this suggestion. It'd only be abused.

[verydoge12]

29 minutes ago, waffels852 said:

Idea 2 that's exactly how it is, cadets are pistols, same with PO1 then after that each rank gets new weapons.

 

14 minutes ago, Bucolic_6 said:

dea two is already a thing. You'll never see a cadet running out the station with a shotgun, mp5, sniper, AR,... Currently, it's that, when you get promoted to certain ranks, you get the ability to send in an application in order to be allowed to use a weapon. Those applications are very strict and weapons are not to be abused. If so, the officer should be reported and their weapon will be removed.

 

this confused me because I see people that are 1 rank above cadet with MP5s

 

 

 

also added new suggestion 

Edited October 13, 2018 by verydoge12

[verydoge12]

14 minutes ago, Bucolic_6 said:

Idea 5 I do not agree with. Snipers are only used for very tactical situations by SWAT and usage is strict. We don't allow people to take out the sniper and begin shooting at you. Again, we're very strict on that knowing how strong they can be. 

This isn't really true because I know that there are people taking the snipers when they are not on their SWAT duty but dont wanna name them

[MrSix]

30 minutes ago, verydoge12 said:

This isn't really true because I know that there are people taking the snipers when they are not on their SWAT duty but dont wanna name them

By our rules they are not allowed to do that. The sniper is an active deployment weapon only. 

 

The MP5 is not a weapon allowed to be used by a Police Officer 1 either. 

 

About your new suggestion, police officer 1 is not a rank eligible to apply for divisions. SWAT requires you to be a PO II at least. 

Obviously our SWAT members are supposed to keep up high rp standards and respond to fear rp properly if rp’d well. If you however, see any officer breaking any server rules or you think an officer is abusing their power or taking out weapons they’re not supposed to, you always have the chance to report said officer. We try to keep High RP standards here in PD. 

 

I hope I was able to clarify a few things for you!

[Shannon]

+1 criminals have no chance against cops as criminals can lose everything they have (car/gun) whereas cops can just respawn all that stuff again
Like all the suggestions except i have one issue with idea 6 - (if snipers are kept) then snipers should not be lootable as this would cause people to go after police for this OP weapon

[IroquoisP]

Cops shouldn't be able to have anything criminals cant have. Body Armor and all weapons should be available just very expensive. The fact that we all locked to like a 50 cal pistol, a uzi, shotgun and AK when theres like 20 guns in the game that police can all have is just silly. 

 

Only exception to this I can think of is the Tazer 

Edited October 14, 2018 by IroquoisP

[MusketDeezNuts]

-1 PD has been nerfed alot these past 6 months. I dont play as LSPD myself. I mostly play on my criminal alt. I think that LSPD as it currently is. The best. 6 months ago you couldnt even kill one officer.

[Levi208]

+1 PD can defend themselves against this all if they want but amongst crims it's fairly well known we -are- at a disadvantage. I could take the armor nerf and the removal of the sniper rifle. Having an option to deal with crims where as you don't allow crims to then also obtain that sniper rifle is a massive double standard, considering we face bans for obtaining one.

Someone mentioned this in another post the other day, there really can't be double standards. Cops on TS and yet for us that's a rulebreach.. Double standards.

[Tomvd682]

+1

I like idea 3 the most

[nateX]

16 hours ago, Bucolic_6 said:

By our rules they are not allowed to do that. The sniper is an active deployment weapon only. 

 

The MP5 is not a weapon allowed to be used by a Police Officer 1 either. 

 

About your new suggestion, police officer 1 is not a rank eligible to apply for divisions. SWAT requires you to be a PO II at least. 

Obviously our SWAT members are supposed to keep up high rp standards and respond to fear rp properly if rp’d well. If you however, see any officer breaking any server rules or you think an officer is abusing their power or taking out weapons they’re not supposed to, you always have the chance to report said officer. We try to keep High RP standards here in PD. 

 

I hope I was able to clarify a few things for you!

The thing is that the sniper requires a certification and is really rearly used, as we are not allowed to use it in every situation. 

There is no way a PO I can have an MP5, MP5 can only be used by SWAT members and we do not recruit people left and right, not even one third of PD is in SWAT. 

PD has been nerfed more than enough, our cruisers barely go up to 194 and the supercars that we have to chase supercars are slower than the cruisers... 

Armor is nerfed, and people on duty have around 30 armor while SWAT has 60.

Our MDC has also been nerfed as well as the new policy that we need to do a command to open the weapon inventory to give us weapons. And we have like 200 ammo in it, that is barely enough in situations as we are constantly outnumbered. 

At this point I think PD is as balanced as it gets and if you lose 1 fight, doesn't mean that PD is OP. At the end of the day, RP is not about constant shootouts and if you win or not, it's about interaction and describing your actions and having fun. 

[verydoge12]

4 minutes ago, nateX said:

Armor is nerfed, and people on duty have around 30 armor while SWAT has 60.

since when?  

[nateX]

2 hours ago, verydoge12 said:

since when?  

Over a month now. 

[DISCO]

since the discussion thread was closed (it was constructive with all the facts and evidence) and this thread comments shows the same attitude from the PD stance, it shows that PD has no intention of changing themselfes while showing community a big middle finger.

 

Shame on you.

[nateX]

1 hour ago, DISCO said:

since the discussion thread was closed (it was constructive with all the facts and evidence) and this thread comments shows the same attitude from the PD stance, it shows that PD has no intention of changing themselfes while showing community a big middle finger.

 

Shame on you.

I clearly gave a well constructed answer and slandering a whole faction is worse than anything you described. 

[DISCO]

1 hour ago, nateX said:

I clearly gave a well constructed answer and slandering a whole faction is worse than anything you described. 

well there was more than enough evidence, PD didnt acknowledge the facts and then you just shut half of the community by just putting the thread in the archive.

 

23 hours ago, Bucolic_6 said:

Hey there!

Regarding your first idea, me being in PD myself actually find the current armor state more than enough. If we do happen to get in shootouts, it's never really a 1v1 where the criminal has a disadvantage. Besides, the 50% armor is shot away in 2 shots, so it's really not all that strong.

 

Idea two is already a thing. You'll never see a cadet running out the station with a shotgun, mp5, sniper, AR,... Currently, it's that, when you get promoted to certain ranks, you get the ability to send in an application in order to be allowed to use a weapon. Those applications are very strict and weapons are not to be abused. If so, the officer should be reported and their weapon will be removed.

 

Idea three I'm not all too sure about. I think it would make it difficult to have a said stock of weapons with the number of officers we have. Besides, it wouldn't make sense to have officers ending up on patrol not being able to bring a weapon cause we're out of stock. That's just something that doesn't happen IRL.

 

Idea 4: Having both radios in-game, hearing both all the time, would be EXTREMELY annoying. Units not involved in a pursuit or SWAT or whatever tactical situation shouldn't be hearing what other officers are saying. We do have the rule that officers are to talk in-game and on TS at the same time, to make it fair. 

 

Idea 5 I do not agree with. Snipers are only used for very tactical situations by SWAT and usage is strict. We don't allow people to take out the sniper and begin shooting at you. Again, we're very strict on that knowing how strong they can be. 

 

Idea 6: I only agree with good RP being rewarded by admins handing you the weapons you take. Officers are currently victims of "gangs hating cops and thus willing to shoot them for no good reason" and you having the ability to take our weapon wouldn't really better that. I have many concerns with this suggestion. It'd only be abused.

this is the example of "I amPD, I am lazy and I don't want to change anything nor I do care about the rest server or the equality of abilities given to all factions or player groups"

 

[Taedolf]

12 hours ago, Pistol Pete said:

This one definitely needs revision in my opinion. There's a few cops that stream on Twitch and having watched them it's clearly problematic. While there seems to be a rule in place to ensure PD and MD use in-game chat while communicating on TeamSpeak (as mentioned by @Bucolic_6), it's too easy to forget.

Wasn't I just told in the previous thread that this is only used for OOC?  Which is it?  Either a communication medium is considered to be inRP or out of RP.

2 hours ago, DISCO said:

since the discussion thread was closed (it was constructive with all the facts and evidence) and this thread comments shows the same attitude from the PD stance, it shows that PD has no intention of changing themselfes while showing community a big middle finger.

 

Shame on you.

let's not do that.  that'd be cool.  He actually responded with thought.  Being against your point of view does not mean you are being shown a middle finger.

 

 

I think the biggest thing I'm hearing here that actually makes sense to me is: certain things are possible and obtainable while PD, yet not as crim despite the fact that they WOULD be able to be obtained.  I mean, crims import AK's yet they can't order a set of Kevlar off amazon?  I could order Kevlar right now if I wanted to.  Crims should be able to get everything police have access to, when reasonable, but at a much higher price due to the difficulty of obtaining things illegally.  Sniper rifles are one of those things where they should be an unrealistically high price, imo, because of how ridiculous they are.

I recognize PD should have advantages over criminals, but it also shouldn't be non-RP reasons like restricting things that should be able to be gotten.  Instead of nerfing PD armor, give the option to get armor to criminals because it simply makes sense to do so.  Keep PD well equipped, but allow criminals to become well equipped by investing their ill-gotten money and potentially losing it.  That's how it should be.  There should not be an artificial barrier that breaches what should be possible in the name of balance.  It'd be okay for a lite-rp, but not what I feel this community is trying to accomplish here.

Edited October 14, 2018 by Taedolf
suggestion added

[DISCO]

closing the constructive thread without no reason on your own is a sign of unhealthy community and its a sign that staff doesn't not appreciate the facts/evidence/other opinions showed towards them. 

 

Regards to this thread, this is my final response and I am not comment on this one anymore.

 

[Taedolf]

1 minute ago, DISCO said:

closing the constructive thread without no reason on your own is a sign of unhealthy community and its a sign that staff doesn't not appreciate the facts/evidence/other opinions showed towards them. 

 

Regards to this thread, this is my final response and I am not comment on this one anymore.

 

I felt the topic accomplished what it was going to, and instead moved off topic which is why it was closed.  Thread closing is also not indicative of PD, as it is staff that did so.  Bad-mouthing PD accomplishes, quite literally, nothing in that situation because they had nothing to do with it.

[nateX]

2 hours ago, lenx said:

I have additional thoughts to add. After reading these replies, it's clear this thread is getting a little derailed. I'd like to try and bring it back on track and point out real issues.

 

The police get a free pass for powergaming in general.

 

That's a bold claim, I know, but let me explain...

This is either a straight up lie or you are oblivious to what your fellow officers are doing.

If I'm to understand correctly with the new changes to PD, normal officers aren't meant to be walking around with shotguns and SMGs. They are meant to be stored in the cruiser until they need them. However, they aren't doing that.

Just earlier today at the car meet, normal police officers showed up with shotguns and SMGs. They did not RP taking them from their vehicles (They didn't RP anything at all). I asked them in character what the deal was, "Since when do beat cops carry around SMGs?" and his response was "I'm on passive SWAT" or something like that, to which I replied "That's horse shit you're just a police officer. How can you be SWAT and a normal cop at the same time? how does that make sense?" to which he pretty much just started ignoring me.

That's when I called him out in OOC about the weapon in the back, and then his story changed. Apparently it was "RPly in his vehicle?" How does that work? He has it equipped on his back, I can literally see it. Why would it ever be "RPly" in the vehicle when he can physically put it in there. I guarantee if i were to pull out my SMG that I actually had RPly in my bag, he would not have ran to his car and RP'd taking it before slaughtering me.

THIS IS CLEAR POWERGAMING.

 

Normal police officers should never be allowed to go on passive swat duty (whatever the fuck that is). If there are no SWAT online, then deal with it. Stop giving the LSPD all of these tools to powergame in order to force advantageous scenarios. Passive SWAT and the 1 shot kill revolvers need to be REMOVED.

Evidence (No RP of unlocking their weapon and retrieving it from the cruisers were performed)

Bonus (id 48 with shotgun)

Members of PD don't have access to the MP5 unless they are manually asigned to a group. From what I see the officer was following the protocol, except the part with the weapons being in the car, which I will speak to him about. 

[DeanThompson]

On 10/14/2018 at 12:53 AM, verydoge12 said:

Keep in mind : I don't think every single of these suggestions should be applied together.

 

Recently everyone, including myself has been complaining how the PD is overpowered and could use some nerfs so I came up with these ideas :

 

Idea 1:

Every rank should have 50% of their current armor. For example normal officer has 50 armor and he should have 25 and a swat has 100 and it should be reduced to 50. This would be more fair because the current way it is criminals cannot access armor.

 

Idea 2: 

Not every rank should be able to use all of the weapons, for example, A cadet should only be allowed to a pistol (This might be the current case not sure) , A police officer should be only be able to use pistols and a shotgun (not a MP5) and all the way up to a commander that could use any weapon.

Idea 3:

Remove unlimited weapons, the PD should have limited weapons that restock each week, maybe related to the treasury but not necessarily.

 

Idea 4: 

Remove the whole TeamSpeak thing, police should have more channels and fore example, main channel would be used for backup and bolo's etc and you would talk to it using M and a secondary channel that is used in a chase and you would have a different key to talk to people in that channel. You would be able to hear both of the channels.

 

Idea 5: 

Completely remove the snipers from the game, I know its a very fun weapon to use but lets be real its OP, and criminals have nothing to fight back at that distance.

 

Idea 6 ( don't think this one will happen):

We should be able to get the guns from the officers, I know this could be abused very easily but let's say you kidnap an officer (With a reason) and you have the ability to get his weapons with help of a staff member.

 

Idea 7

From what I've seen it's way to easy to become a SWAT the new SWATS are KOSing everyone and If I am not mistaken you need to be 1 rank above the cadet rank to apply for a swat. There are a couple of swats that know when to shoot and rp properly such as Paulo but some are just terrible 

 

 

EDIT : Just realized that there is already an active suggestion and some suggestions are similar to mine 

 

The PD is supposed to be over powered. It keeps the criminals on edge and prevents them from becoming to brazen with their crimes. Criminals need to be smart about their crimes in order to be successful. Dumb criminals who put zero thought into planning and preparation and just play cops and robbers all day will end up in jail and with significantly less money.

[BroskiBen]

As a member of the PD since May 2017 I can confirm this is the 'weakest' the PD has been since I joined. When I was a cadet we were given a full loadout, driving around with minor training. It is increasingly easy for criminals to kill cops. Which I have my own problems with on how increasingly common that is. 

From my criminal alt (Ben Rucks) standpoint, I understand the appeal of trying to kill cops, and 6/7 months ago I was guilty of doing so. The reason I refrain from damaging cops now (I either RP doing physical damage or don't actually shoot at them) is because I understand the weight of my repercussions. Spending years of my life in prison for my actions, risk of life etc. I think criminals at the moment need to stop relying on the option to just kill cops. It's selfish RP.

On my police character (Trustson) It's becoming the norm where gangs are just going to kill you if you RP with them, sometimes for stupid reasons. I'll post a link below as to what I mean. 

In terms of constructive conversation about changes within PD, the only things I can agree on are the Teamspeak IC rooms, but as has been mentioned MULTIPLE times in this thread, if you're in those channels they're strictly IC and you must use IG VOIP as well as TS, or you'd be punished accordingly. 

Overall, I don't think Police should be further nerfed, rather I think criminals should be smarter with their actions. Engaging Police, notably SWAT is NOT a smart idea, and should be avoided as much as humanly possible. I would like instead a way to work with criminals to encourage better roleplay and more reasonable situations where antagonizing or in some cases murdering Police would work.

https://streamable.com/uvc8d