Staff Owned Official Factions

[Cyrus Raven]

+1 (but not in the way you think)

I have issues with these decisions on two fronts.

First: This should have been communicated to everyone, not just faction leaders. Whether your intentions were good, the idea that players get is that staff is breaking transfer request rules and doing so just to get their own faction to play with. This is now something we know is NOT true and the idea is actually pretty decent, but this leads me to point number two.

 

Second: Why wouldn't you guys take an already existing group that has been fighting for official and help them out that way ? This server has a ton of criminal organisation ideas, why not pair up with one or two groups with good RP and decent backstory, take over a few of the high command roles and help develop the faction that way ? The idea of starting two factions to then pass them on is an interesting idea, the only issue is that it leaves those who are trying to achieve official demoralised, especially when combined with the first point made. 

 

TL;DR: Be more transparent with EVERYONE and include the community in these suggestions! At peak times we might have 400-450 players around, suggestions are always being posted, don't do everything by yourselves, include the community. 

[BallinByNature]

 

Then what is the intent? Why can we not speculate when not being told anything? There are several player run factions with high quality RP that has been waiting for ages to just get a reply on their official application. Do you not see how this is an unfortunate signal for them? 

  You can speculate, we've just told you your speculations are false, that's all. The intent is to try something new, have a few staff establish a faction to be handed off to players eventually to see how it works out, a pilot test. 

This has no change / bearing to the current official applications and player-created faction system, so no I do not see how this is an unfortunate signal for them, other than they have another gang in the city to compete with perhaps.
 

 

 

Can you answer my questions then that I asked Osvaldon?

 

Why when I asked about LSMC moving to crim world and changing their name to Lost MC was I told I would lose official status? Do you not see how demoralising this is now?

 

If staff are not in this for the long run, why do you need to each transfer a 50k+ bike and 300k cash each? Why is there now natural progression? Everyone in LSMC had to work hard to get their cash and bikes. But this faction just allows 10+ transfer requests funding their criminals.

 

You are killing factions with these decisions, why are FM apps taking over 6 weeks for an answer but you guys get an answer instantly? @MrSilky

- It was decided before you had become the first Official Legal Faction we would not allow a faction to start up under the legal guise and then transition to illegal because the paths are different and the tools given to these factions are different as well. This will be true for all factions who start up as Legal Factions, such as a business. We actually do not prevent you from RPing criminal activity or monitor that very heavily. You can be criminal and act as a criminal (which you have as your time as "legal faction") and follow your RP story. What you want is access to gun imports out of the blue when you've been RPing as semi-legal. Not only does it sound weird ICly that the Cartel would be importing to your legal MC which had / may still have police characters in it, but it is a clear OOC motivation for gun imports only, and not that you just are not able to do anything criminal at all or RP properly etc.

They were allowed the transfers to help set up the backstory which they will eventually probably not participate in any longer. Every player who joins Lost MC will have to work hard to get their cash and bikes too, and then they will own the faction, while staff no longer does. They're also not funding much of anything criminal, they're buying bikes and housing etc. which will help staff establish a faction lore to hand off.

This decision actually has no impact on other factions / the current faction system but you're free to have your opinion that we're killing them.

These factions don't go through FM / or applications, we establish them together as a staff team, therefore it is not effecting anyone else's application status / time etc.

I understand being confused and speculating but it is strange Luxas because you were in the Faction Leaders chat and given the announcement explaining these factions yet you still are here spinning it as if you did not see that. Perhaps you did not read it before quitting, but it seems a bit disingenuous that you're acting surprised at information that was previously given to you.

 

 

+1

If everyone has to earn their official status if they're not staff and staff just get it handed to them when they please, how is that fair.

These staff created factions will have the same guidelines as player run factions and will be only part of the factions for a period of time to get them up and running for other players. Therefore, it will be players in control of these and will follow the same guidelines, and it has no long term benefits for the characters they have established to help out with the system.

As for the transfer requests, these are not characters they are transferring to because they're bored with their character, want to move assets that don't make sense, want to start a new character and bring over their large assets. Feel free to show me if any properties / buildings have been transferred but I don't think they have yet you compare it to moving entire assets of gas stations when players are quitting their alts. These are not  even characters they will play long term, they are setting these up to create a proper lore for players to follow / join in, and eventually hand off that lore / standard to the players once it's established. 

It is something to test out and try - and has nothing to do with anyone else "not being good enough" or whatever was said, we're just trying a method of creating a faction which we think might bring some good RP to the community, if you disagree that is certainly fine, and will be noted for our testing.




Thanks for your feed back everyone!

[Msato]

As far as I'm aware, these factions were founded with senior staff guidance who want to assist improve the overall quality or criminal roleplay. The two factions themselves have existed in the server prior, and are currently ran by very experienced members of the community.

As someone who has maintained a faction for close to 2 years, speaking for myself and the majority of our members - we openly welcomed factions of this sort. They will bring a needed change to the current flow of criminal Rp, whilst assisting influence the standards or others along the road.

In the initial announcements we got from FM, it was clearly stated that staff are only here to set the base line of quality and rp for these groups. Once established they will likely distance themselves giving the groups new leadership space to work on their faction. 

I fail to see why people are seeing this as a punishment to their own group, your "Road to official" is your path, and is not influenced by other gangs IC. Back in early 2019, Triads was rejected from official multiple times, for numerous reasons, eventually achieving it. Everyone has their wall to climb, some may take longer than others. Don't let the success of one bring your strive to success to a halt. 

 

Each of these factions is held to the same IC and OOC level as current Officials, talking from our RP with Lost MC so far its very evident they're here to bring about a positive change. As for the "benefits" they gained of being official, they are also not utilising these until their RP further develops. 

 

Tldr: Overall This is beneficial for criminal rp, not negative. Focus on improving yourself, prior to slamming down others. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by CallumMontie

[nikoh]

While the main points have been covered by most, I do have to say that the transfer requests show a lot of bias within the Staff team, even if it’s for the betterment of the community, it’s pure hypocrisy. 

 

Purposely funding a character that is going to lead/take part in a criminal faction is the exact opposite of the point of the Transfer Requests, and it’s been a strong reason for denial in almost all Transfer Requests regarding a Legal Character to a Criminal one.

 

The Staff who’ve made these requests and gotten them granted have bypassed months of hard work and grinding to get to a stable economic level in which they could then develop an organization. It’s lazy RP, however I see why it’s being done, for the betterment of criminal RP. 

 

Overall I’m excited for the RP, but I feel for the people who feel cheated by the system the staff created. In my honest opinion it doesn’t matter about their longevity on the player they’re making, it’s about the precedent set, that shows staff can overlook their own rules to do things how they want to.

 

Lots of players spend countless days on this server to be an individual with capital and something to show for it. With these requests from staff being accepted I can’t help but feel like it’s a blow to morale to the players who run in unofficial gangs. Seeing new gangs pop up in F4 as well as transfer requests that would get denied instantly if it were any other legal character trying to fund a criminal one. 

[Rubsmeister]

Coulda just made an announcement and avoided this whole discussion tbh

 

 

 

 

 

(and accept my transfer request wtf )

[Bala]

I had asked Bakmeel about this a little, when I found out it was a thing. I'll admit to initially having concerns about it, some of those concerns are mentioned in this thread. But having spoke to him about it, I understood the reasons for it and it's not that big a deal.

Perhaps some people might assume that them being official, stops their faction being official, which it does not. The only thing that can make or break your faction would be how your faction behaves, as Montie said.

Personally, I feel we have lost some big factions. Zetas for as long as I know were THE Eclipse illegal faction. WCA were legitimate as a street gang. The Wanted offered something different to the other groups. Hell, even Triads aren't the same anymore with Zetas gone and the criminal cap. I feel that with every one of these departures, we've taken an L to the crim scene every time.

I don't feel that the factions that have come up in the wake of those departures have banged to be honest. I don't see the variety that The Wanted brought, I don't see the legitimacy that WCA offered, I don't see the presence that the Zetas brought to the streets. 

Maybe that's just a case of giving these current factions time, but can we REALLY be mad about admins taking control and trying to build a better criminal scene? The way it was announced could of been better perhaps but if it leads to better quality factions, I'm into it.

Simple fact is, factions lead by high up staff members aren't going to be exploiting loopholes and using our reports systems for less than pure reasons are they? I care more about end product than I do about how the faction got there at this point.

Personally, I look forward to arresting them.

[krooks365]

 

I don't feel that the factions that have come up in the wake of those departures have banged to be honest. I don't see the variety that The Wanted brought, I don't see the legitimacy that WCA offered, I don't see the presence that the Zetas brought to the streets. 

Maybe that's just a case of giving these current factions time, but can we REALLY be mad about admins taking control and trying to build a better criminal scene? The way it was announced could of been better perhaps but if it leads to better quality factions, I'm into it.

I don't disagree with your statements for the most part but I do want to invite you to step in and involve yourself in some RP from the crim side with these "factions that have come up in the wake of those departures" before invalidating them without experiencing the RP they bring to offer to the server as a whole (other than PD interactions alone).

---

End of the day these two factions receiving official do not affect current working factions from gaining official status in their own right. I understand everyone has diverse opinions and emotions about this in regards to their personal experience with the server as a whole - however I want to challenge everyone to see this, as I believe it was intended, as attempts for server growth and diversity on the criminal side. Something we have wanted to see for a long time  At the end of the day we all want to see this server succeed and continue to grow and develop - that means sometimes you are going to try things and sometimes it wont make sense to everyone at the offset. You gotta have faith that we are all working towards the same goal and hang in to see how it works out. Things that work well only benefit us all - and things that do not can be adjusted to better serve the community - nothing is permanent unless it is stated to be so. Have faith in the good intentions. 

[Manula_Adams]

Well if this was done with the intentions that was stated by the admins, I do appreciate them. It's just the community was given a wrong impression due to the lack of transparency. I am quite new to eclipse, and I truly care about this community. I was banned recently due to my lack of experience but that did not stop me from coming into the forums and reading everything that was going on. Hope this would result in a positive outcome for everyone!     

[Qiang]

 

admins taking control and trying to build a better criminal scene

the RP they are looking for is after you rob a store you need to go to jail for them PD always should be the winner  is part of criminal imagine going to jail 4 time in one day nothing wrongs with that (kappa) 

and they looking to some one make a faction or bring some RP to server when PD officer act like super man walking 1 vs 5 to active shoot out not fearing for their life i meanI do not blame them when is nothing to lose 

Edited August 22, 2020 by Qiang

[Ezrya]

 

but can we REALLY be mad about admins taking control and trying to build a better criminal scene?

Could also argue admins and FM team are the reason criminal RP took a massive L and now needs assistance now to build it back up, these last few months are the reason why most criminal players have felt a lack of motivation to play. While Turfs definetly revived a lot of it, a lot of the downfall came from the lack of the transparency from FM and admins such as bringing in things like a 40 member cap out of nowhere and many other decisions over the last few months which were just honestly poorly communicated to criminal factions sparking a lot of negative reactions such as this one.

After reading Ballin's comment I see how my original comments and speculations were wrong and these factions could actually be a good thing but as said this could have all been avoided had it been communicated better to players which in my opinion is the real issue here and has been an issue for a while now, how can you expect players to not get mad when changes are made without any form of information on those changes, we can only form opinions and provide feedback based on the information we have at the time.

[Bala]

The problem with making a decision, ANY decision is that you are going to do something that someone doesn't like. 

It's easy to post on a forum and say something is bad. The faction cap has seemed to have hurt Triads but at the same time, that change seems to have been motivated by negative behaviours. It wasn't something that was just added for the sake of it. Same goes with the faction war rules during the last big faction war that were introduced.

From an outsider's perspective as part of PD, it wasn't just motivated by that last war but the previous few wars where things just get silly. Massive shootouts in broad daylight, convoys of 15 vehicles chasing one guy around the city etc.. It gets to the point where it gets forgotten what kind of server this is supposed to be.

I will agree with you on one point, the communication BEFORE changes are implemented needs to be improved. Surprising people does tend to lead to an exaggerated reaction, where as if people know things are coming, it's less impact when it finally does happen. If the devs/senior admins decide on implementing stuff that effects factions, for whatever reason, informing them before-hand not only gives the opportunity for feedback/tweaks, but also gives factions a feeling of inclusion and mitigates the shock of receiving a change negatively.

I'll give you an example. Imagine the senior staff want to get rid of importing heavies in the server. If they don't communicate that and just do it, what is the reaction going to be? You are going to get people that don't like it regardless but also you are going to get the shock factor too. But if they were to say, we're going to be removing heavy weapon imports, you have time to process the information. You might still hate the decision, but you lose that instant reaction.

As for the factions that were mentioned after my last post, this is just my personal opinion but those factions that didn't end up official, did not end up official because they were not of the standard that the server requires. That failure and difficulty for some of those factions to get over the line to official is why the staff team have decided to make two new factions. They are almost a 'how-to' manual for getting official.

Truth is, I don't think getting official is actually that deep. You've just got to be consistent, stay within the rules and be active. You don't need 50 people, you don't need to win every situation, you don't need staff in your faction. You just need to be reliable on all fronts and promote the values the staff team want for the server.

[HighTV]

I don't understand why we trust staff to make Official factions like Taxi services/Weasel but then we second guess their judgement on an Illegal factions? We can assume this is a plan pushed from high up in staff, its not like any low level staff members are are doing this alone. 

To verify what @MrSilky mentioned, it was explained to Factions leaders that these groups were eventually to be passed down to the community as stable factions to RP with. 

The addition of new Illegal Official Factions has no impact on others abilities to get into Illegal Official status. Likewise, the dismantling or disbanding of a current Illegal official faction doesn't open up a new 'slot' for one. 



This just me speculating fyi: I imagine the largest step to becoming official is gaining the trust of Staff that on an OOC level the people in the factions leadership can self-correct RP standards and essentially 'moderate' their own members to be up to standards at all times (especially when no one is watching). Taking that into consideration, I truly understand why a 'Staff' led team would have great recruitment standards and have that level of trust much faster. 
 

[Brody_burns]

 

I don't understand why we trust staff to make Official factions like Taxi services/Weasel but then we second guess their judgement on an Illegal factions? We can assume this is a plan pushed from high up in staff, its not like any low level staff members are are doing this alone. 

To verify what @MrSilky mentioned, it was explained to Factions leaders that these groups were eventually to be passed down to the community as stable factions to RP with. 

The addition of new Illegal Official Factions has no impact on others abilities to get into Illegal Official status. Likewise, the dismantling or disbanding of a current Illegal official faction doesn't open up a new 'slot' for one. 



So Do you think they would allow 20+ Official illegal factions at the same time? I don’t, so it could have at least some effect on others getting official. the most illegal factions at once since I have been playing is 5. Not saying they are Guaranteed  to affect your group from getting official, but it is something to think about.
And some people are saying it’s new chars so they are not transferring to crims, but then they also mention that Bak ran the gang in the past. So if he ran the gang in the past would that make him a crim? Thus making it a legal to illegal transfer? 
don’t get me wrong, I will love to rp with the groups in the future, but imo they should only use assets they earned.
yes starting a gang with no money is hard, that’s why we are upset, we all had to do the same. 
no hate just my opinions