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Pertinax

Court System

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San Andreas Court System


From my side is time that we have a court system and be a normal state withing Unites States and not a Police State. So here I present my idea that I had been having along moths and any Constructive criticism is welcome and also would be set in this post as Ideas at the end.

From my side this would help to create more civilians jobs for the server and decrease the sensation that we are on a Cops Vs Robbers server. Having a more robust civilian side on the server that is only set by mechanics, DCC, and wezel news.

 

General Structure


All these positions should be withing the Government Faction. And would be paid by the faction.

Also if you have a LAWYER Certification issued by the government Faction you can be independent lawyer for any one who would need you. (This one will not be payed by the government, he will be payed by it's clients)

  • Judge: This Will be the person who will decide the final sentence based on the evidence presented and the points of the prosecutor and the defense attorney. Also is going to be the one who handles the hole case so he/she will be the one starting the case on Forums (Explained soon).
  • Prosecutor: This would be a lawyer that would handle the cases against suspects or civilians representing the government. For Example: He/She will be the one going against the suspect that committed a crime or a civilian. He will be also defending the city against lawsuits of government factions like PD, SD, DOC. Will be the one presenting the evidence and the points to convict the suspect or civilian.
  • Attorney: This will be a lawyer who is going to represent a civilian on civil cases where a civilian is presenting a lawsuit against an other civilian or a faction (Can be a government faction or any other entity).
  • Defense Attorney: This will be the lawyer who will defend the accusations against their clients, could be the suspect or the civilian. He will be in charger of presenting the points to demonstrate that his client is innocent.
  • Juries: This will NOT exist during this stage since is hard enough to get the people that will be involve on the case. So the Judge will take the place of the juries at this time been.

Any attorney in any position will have the benefit of Client-Attorney privilege where the client can disgust with his attorney in private and nothing said during that could be used. (I hope you guys understand me on this since is hard to explain)

Upon Arrest


Miranda Rights

During an arrest their Miranda Right have to be presented to the Suspect so again everything that he say can be used here as statements. Where the prosecutor can use as solid evidence. In case of the Miranda Rights had not been read to him this statements can not be used during the case and would be dismissed as evidence, this will not be an excuse to stop the procedure against the suspect but it will be harder for the prosecutor to prove their involvement and actions.

Suspect Processing

Upon arrest the suspect would have TWO OPTIONS, Accepting the chargers or go to court. This decision has to be taking only by him self.

  • Accepting the Chargers: By accepting the chargers it will be as everything has been so far. The officer place the chargers and he will be getting his time on a cell.
  • Go to court: This is the tricky part. Upon the decision of going to court he will have to go to jail as always but it will be a 1/3 of the time of the actual charges with the option of BAIL. Bail can be paid by himself or a friend and he will be release from his cell, but this doesn't means that he is out of the process. The case will be handled on forums and on await of the final decision (Please go to the sentence section).

Forums (Case Handling)


Since is hard enough to get people on the server for a court case here's an opportunity to continue the RP from every location with out having to be on the game by setting up the case on the forum and IC roleplaying everything that involves it.

This will be simple but it has to be roleplay all the way on the forums, with /mes and /dos where the judge will arrive and every one has to get on their feet etc etc.

A Topic would be Open and presented by the Judge where as reply's will be the points of the prosecutor or the presenting attorney along with the evidence, like arrest reports, body camera, Dash camera, recording and Items. And then followed by the evidence of the defense  and their points. Then the prosecutor will have a space to disprove the evidence provided by the defense and any other points. Then the defense can do the same. This can include the witness and officer statements too as replys when asked for.

All the persons involved during the case should be tagged on forums.

Examples of Titles of the Topic:

  • Los Santos Police Department Vs John Doe
  • John Doe vs Los Santos Police Department
  • John Doe vs John Doe (Civilian Case)
  • BayView vs Los Santos Customs

Sentences


 

So here it comes the final decision.

  • Upon Applying the Chargers: If the judge rules that the chargers will be applied, the chargers time would be multiply by 3 that means that he will have to serve times 3 the time of the charge. Also this time can be set up by the judge as his convince. But normally it should be a lot more than the normal time of the chargers of the case of accepting chargers on upon arrest section. Also a warrant with the court chargers will be set up for the suspect in case he decides to flee.
    The fines in the other hand, will be the same since they are high enough. But if he or a friend already pay it on bail, no need to be placed here.
  • Discharging the Chargers: In this case since he already serve 1/3 of the time in jail and he had those chargers on his record. These chargers will be removed from his record and a compensation has to be made by the government, the pay of the attorney (In case he hire a personal lawyer.), and the BAIL Money multiply times 2.

(If you have suggestions about adding things to this part please let me now and I will do a list under here.)

The x3 times can be decided by Head Admin and change it to what they want, but this is an incentive to go more of the option of "Accepting Chargers" on the Upon Arrest section.

Investigations (PD IB, SD IB, FBI)


If a investigation was made before actually arresting some one, that some one will not have any other choice to go under the "Go to Court" option on the upon arrest section. And the investigation party will have to present all the evidence so the prosecutor can handle the case.

Warrants


This part is simple if a law enforcement officer wish to brake upon a house or any other type of warrant he will have to request it to a judge. The judge will evaluate the evidence provided to accept or deny the search warrant or an arrest warrant.
 

 


What would be require to implement this?

  • Developer Side:
    • Let a judge set up Chargers and Times for the arrest and also dismiss chargers.
    • Have an option of a selector in the arrest calculator that will read Court, where the charge time is going to be 1/3 of the actual time and also the fine will be a Bail Charge.
    • Set up a Bail system where he or a any one can pay for his bail.
  • Non Developer Side:
    • A new IC Forum for the Court system for cases and Warrants requests.
    • New jobs as described on the general structure on the Government Faction.

(Sorry if I present some spelling or grammar mistakes, English is not my native language but I try my best.)

 

Edited by Pertinax
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+1 overall, this would really assist flush out the current arrest system for criminals, pd and doc adding much more depth.

I'd like to see some points added on how each side of the coins has direct interactions and the pros/cons for both, as this should not be a one sided system.

Really impressive post.

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1 hour ago, Pertinax said:

Upon Applying the Chargers: If the judge rules that the chargers will be applied, the chargers time would be multiply by 3 that means that he will have to serve times 3 the time of the charge.

-1. Jail times for current criminal activities is already high and no one wants to go to jail to be afk for 6+ hours and have mostly no fun or rp.

If the charges didn't get multiplied then +1 

Edited by reeceobz
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1 minute ago, reeceobz said:

-1. Jail times for current criminal activities is already high and no one wants to go to jail to be afk for 6+ hours and have mostly no fun or rp.

If the charges didn't get multiplied then +1 

Since this is a complete processes and is going to be hard enough the sentence have to be high. If you don't wish to go to court. there's the Accepting the chargers Option on Upon arrest.
This is an opportunity to take the court system serious and not just for I do not like the chargers. The court is a tedious and highly effort job and there's should be a filter.
So if you win you can win money and things like that and prove your innocence but if you loose you need to loose significantly.

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+1 Extremely detailed suggestion!

This would open up new Rp potential for crims, a venue for them to battle unearned charges, and more civilian opportunities. It has the potential to streamline arrest RP, as the suspect might be less inclined to argue the charges OOC when they can fight the charges in court.

One sticky bit is that this would force those engaging in the system to tie their forum account (which can currently be OOC) to their character(s). That would indeed hamper privacy, but that could be considered part of the price one pays for (apparently) criminal activity.

Also would make the Miranda line we speak every time we arrest seem more truthful.

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I'm a bit torn on this one. The lack of a court/DOJ system is a glaring issue, but at the same time I don't want every single case to have to go to court so that the system of justice slows to a grinding halt. Maybe have court as an option for high-priority cases such as racketeering, multiple counts of murder, conspiracy to import firearms etc. Having these large court proceedings for cases that are truly worth the RP would be great, but I don't wanna see every Tom, Dick and Harry dragging their Reckless Operation case through court.

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-1 I couldn't imagine having to deal with this as a cop.  When I was a cop, this was one of my fears that this would be implemented and I'd have to set time aside and make more written reports regarding this.

Also it would be way to hard to find someone that can properly RP a Judge / Lawyer.

I don't believe this server is in the state to currently have this implemented either, way to many other things that should be taken care of before this is even brought up.

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-1

Too much time and manpower would be required, we already have city hall that rarely has personnel. You already get out of prison in short time which can be seen as DOJ/Lawyers fighting for your freedom.

I believe the only thing we need is the ability to fight and expunge past records that way an individual who has made past mistakes can still get EMS jobs or firearms licenses after a set time.

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21 hours ago, Philo said:

-1

However I want a rehabilitation system where a criminal can get his charges dropped for being a good civilian for a while. This while can be decided. Other than that a lot of time, rules and manpower.

That's what expungement is, a judge rules for the charge and it would come off your record completely. It would be good to have charges expire as well, or just disappear after a set time as long as you don't get more, in some form.

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12 minutes ago, GOAT said:

Never ever works, on any server. 

Again, people don't really want a court system in that they want to roleplay everything out. They just want the get out of jail free card.

No I think people are just sick of getting arrested and having the weather of the day decide what kind of charges they are going to get. A cry for a more fair system and a way to hold police accountable for their actions is a very understandable one. Currently, the only one who can hold police accountable is themselves which obviously comes with a serious conflict of interests.

As to the suggestion, I think it is a very good idea to have it as an optional thing. If you obviously comitted a crime and see that the evidence is obvious, you'll just take the charges and go to jail. If the evidence is shaky and you expect the police officers work to not be thorough, or if you have been charged with crimes you didn't commit, you can take the risk of getting extra jail time for justice. This system obviously wouldn't count for every arrest but it would count for those very annoying ones where cops are clearly just guessing and charging what they can think of.

 

PS: Before you say "well just IA report them" IA reporting is not going to give me the 6 hours I wasted in prison back and I'm still going to lose my items I lost due to an illegal search. Just because the officer who did it gets suspended for a day after the IA report is reviewed 3 months later, I don't feel any better about my unjust prison sentence.

Edited by Rubsmeister
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35 minutes ago, Rubsmeister said:

No I think people are just sick of getting arrested and having the weather of the day decide what kind of charges they are going to get. A cry for a more fair system and a way to hold police accountable for their actions is a very understandable one. Currently, the only one who can hold police accountable is themselves which obviously comes with a serious conflict of interests.

As to the suggestion, I think it is a very good idea to have it as an optional thing. If you obviously comitted a crime and see that the evidence is obvious, you'll just take the charges and go to jail. If the evidence is shaky and you expect the police officers work to not be thorough, or if you have been charged with crimes you didn't commit, you can take the risk of getting extra jail time for justice. This system obviously wouldn't count for every arrest but it would count for those very annoying ones where cops are clearly just guessing and charging what they can think of.

 

PS: Before you say "well just IA report them" IA reporting is not going to give me the 6 hours I wasted in prison back and I'm still going to lose my items I lost due to an illegal search. Just because the officer who did it gets suspended for a day after the IA report is reviewed 3 months later, I don't feel any better about my unjust prison sentence.

The flip side of that is be a criminal smarter, which 90% of the criminals on this server do not do. The mentality of your standard criminal on this server is that they acting like getting caught is no thing but when you catch them it's everything to them. 

PD is not perfect, not going to lie and try and convince people that it is, but we get it right almost every time. Mistakes do happen and they do cost people dearly, but they are still minority incidents.

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3 minutes ago, GOAT said:

The flip side of that is be a criminal smarter, which 90% of the criminals on this server do not do. The mentality of your standard criminal on this server is that they acting like getting caught is no thing but when you catch them it's everything to them. 

PD is not perfect, not going to lie and try and convince people that it is, but we get it right almost every time. Mistakes do happen and they do cost people dearly, but they are still minority incidents.

This could not be further from the truth. Almost every time I am arrested assumptions are made because of the colour of clothing I wear and the fact that I am armed. Nowadays, being armed and being shot in a shootout automatically means you are charged with murder, even if no one witnessed you do so. I think with this suggestion a fair decision has to be made. Do I risk getting more jail time by taking this to court or do I take the normal jail time with no risks? Police are free to inform them of this risk aswell to discourage newer players or inexperienced criminals from making the wrong decision. Besides that, lets not gloss over the fact that it would just be a great new avenue of roleplay. Having someone properly RP as a judge I think would be really fun. It's not only to remedy an existing problem (however I feel it will) but it's also to add new ways to play the server. 

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