Re-introduction of Turfs

[Msato]

10 minutes ago, Castro7 said:

NCZs became a meeting point sadly,and yeah rply is a trash behavior from us n im sorry,but in order to survive we gotta abuse that.The fact that the server doesnt give you guys something to keep you busy,makes you to just search for people to clap,making us not possible to rp at all as we have to fight 24/7 something that isnt realistic and wont help developing our faction.Both sides are lacking rp due the criminal system right now.Just to let you know jay you about to witness great rp from us in the following weeks! 

I'm sorry but this is a blatant lie, yes criminal support is lacking in some areas, but we don't go out hunting you due to this. We hunt you because you caused a war, if you fail to see that we're hunting out of reason and not just boredom I have nothing to say. 

There was a time when Triads got hunted by Zetas, and fair to say we never needed to abuse ncz for the sake of survival, smarten up and stop relying on abusing server rules to "progress your faction" NCZ abuse is one of the worst things to happen to criminal rp. 

Perhaps maybe you should take some lessons from the past, and lay claim to an area using it  as a hq/turf, then focus on holding that down. 

Edited November 10, 2019 by CallumMontie

[Nightranger]

1 hour ago, CallumMontie said:

I'm sorry but this is a blatant lie, yes criminal support is lacking in some areas, but we don't go out hunting you due to this. We hunt you because you caused a war, if you fail to see that we're hunting out of reason and not just boredom I have nothing to say. 

There was a time when Triads got hunted by Zetas, and fair to say we never needed to abuse ncz for the sake of survival, smarten up and stop relying on abusing server rules to "progress your faction" NCZ abuse is one of the worst things to happen to criminal rp. 

Perhaps maybe you should take some lessons from the past, and lay claim to an area using it  as a hq/turf, then focus on holding that down. 

Just gotta say...
Rooks do it, at the bank
Zeta do it, behind the bank, but sit on the border

It's not just Russian Mafia...

Also there seems to be a huge culture in people trying to put others in situations where they try to bait them to break rules, or the amount of times someone speaks out in OOC chat during RP, or rushing the "Robbery" - "Hands Up Hands Up"... "Stop stalling" - We don't all have hotkeys that can cut and paste commands instantly, that's not very realistic....

Criminal RP is pretty poor, Like hardly anyone has any ingenuity or fresh ideas, other than to roll around, baiting and/or screaming hands up... It's almost as bad as Cops PG'ing to put you in jail, refusing to listen to any story you may come up with, and/or adding on more charges that are irrelevant but they just want to put you in jail as long as possible...

Not had many interactions with the triads, But Zeta and rooks seem to just want to clap people, steal there stuff and chop it, That's not exactly "Gangster" stuff...

[OBESE]

I will be honest and I did not read other comments about this suggestion, but I trust, I will be corrected if I say something that has been there. When it comes to introducing turf system then I would be for it with a rule. Each organisation would be able to have 3-5 turfs (really based on how big the turfs would be area wise). If we gonna add turfs and see that the main gangs would just take all the city under scripted turf, then what is the point of it? You're already driving around the city and the whole state like you own it. I guess script to show that you own everything is needed eh? If Gangs would be allowed to  have specific amount of turfs, then I believe it would be more realistic in sense of criminal rp and diplomacy.

[TonyRizzo]

1 hour ago, Nightranger said:

Rooks do it, at the bank
Zeta do it, behind the bank, but sit on the border

Some members hanging out at the bank talking to people != using the cameras to avoid getting attacked. Literally every rook will call out on radio and say they're being followed and everyone else will immediately go help. The bank is the servers hangout spot, and it's a good place to meet people or just have casual conversations, being in a gang doesn't mean you suddenly can't do that.

Zetas own a store and through RP have established the northern end of vinewood as a zeta controlled street, and if the turf system gets added there's no doubt they'll take it over in whatever way the script allows for it. 

 

1 hour ago, Nightranger said:

Also there seems to be a huge culture in people trying to put others in situations where they try to bait them to break rules, or the amount of times someone speaks out in OOC chat during RP, or rushing the "Robbery" - "Hands Up Hands Up"... "Stop stalling" - We don't all have hotkeys that can cut and paste commands instantly, that's not very realistic....

Telling someone to respond to RP != baiting them to rule break. Nobody takes 30 seconds to hit control + 1 or type /down. If you do, or someone tells you to stop stalling, there's a good chance you're taking way too long to respond to RP.

Literally TODAY a guy did exactly this, and eventually just hit T so the ((typing)) would pop up, but would take at least a minute to actually type out /do's

 

1 hour ago, Nightranger said:

Not had many interactions with the triads, But Zeta and rooks seem to just want to clap people, steal there stuff and chop it, That's not exactly "Gangster" stuff...

How is that not "gangster" stuff

[Nightranger]

9 minutes ago, TonyRizzo said:

Telling someone to respond to RP != baiting them to rule break. Nobody takes 30 seconds to hit control + 1 or type /down. If you do, or someone tells you to stop stalling, there's a good chance you're taking way too long to respond to RP.

Literally TODAY a guy did exactly this, and eventually just hit T so the ((typing)) would pop up, but would take at least a minute to actually type out /do's

 

How is that not "gangster" stuff

Gangsters don't get involved in petty crime... Gangsters are Criminal Organisations that own and do stuff, They take out the opposition or sort it through diplo means, They don't run around screaming "Hands up"...

And literally today, A Rook tells me to send them a screenshot of something, So I go looking for the screenshot to send them, I bled out, Got a barrage of PM's saying I'm being reported for not RP'ing, While looking for the screenshot they asked me to send them...

Can't have it both ways, Either you want the screenshot, and your "Pause" RP, or you don't want a screenshot and want to rp

[alexalex303]

1 hour ago, OBESE said:

I will be honest and I did not read other comments about this suggestion, but I trust, I will be corrected if I say something that has been there. When it comes to introducing turf system then I would be for it with a rule. Each organisation would be able to have 3-5 turfs (really based on how big the turfs would be area wise). If we gonna add turfs and see that the main gangs would just take all the city under scripted turf, then what is the point of it? You're already driving around the city and the whole state like you own it. I guess script to show that you own everything is needed eh? If Gangs would be allowed to  have specific amount of turfs, then I believe it would be more realistic in sense of criminal rp and diplomacy.

These kind of OOC hand-holding is what resulted in the current NCZ abuse. If Triads and/or Zetas have the IC power to take over all the turf by themselves, that is their prerogative. Placing OOC limits on an IC concern does not create RP but kills it instead.

Edited November 10, 2019 by alexalex303

[TonyRizzo]

2 hours ago, Nightranger said:

Gangsters don't get involved in petty crime... Gangsters are Criminal Organisations that own and do stuff, They take out the opposition or sort it through diplo means, They don't run around screaming "Hands up"...

Show me where in the big book of how to be a criminal it says someone involved in a criminal organization can't commit petty robbery, especially on a server where criminal organizations can't at the moment own the means to produce drugs, counterfeit money, extort or do various other things major mobs do.
And you're right, in real life gangs don't scream "hands up" when they see an enemy gang member, because in real life they aren't playing to the rules of a server, they can just start shooting outright. Do that here and you get a DM offense, so "taking out the opposition" is reduced to robbing them, ergo there's nothing wrong with it.

 

2 hours ago, Nightranger said:

And literally today, A Rook tells me to send them a screenshot of something, So I go looking for the screenshot to send them, I bled out, Got a barrage of PM's saying I'm being reported for not RP'ing, While looking for the screenshot they asked me to send them...

Can't have it both ways, Either you want the screenshot, and your "Pause" RP, or you don't want a screenshot and want to rp

Then you send them the screenshot on discord and you both go your separate ways. Unfortunately with bleeding out you don't really have the luxury of "pausing" RP

[Castro7]

10 hours ago, CallumMontie said:

I'm sorry but this is a blatant lie, yes criminal support is lacking in some areas, but we don't go out hunting you due to this. We hunt you because you caused a war, if you fail to see that we're hunting out of reason and not just boredom I have nothing to say. 

There was a time when Triads got hunted by Zetas, and fair to say we never needed to abuse ncz for the sake of survival, smarten up and stop relying on abusing server rules to "progress your faction" NCZ abuse is one of the worst things to happen to criminal rp. 

Perhaps maybe you should take some lessons from the past, and lay claim to an area using it  as a hq/turf, then focus on holding that down. 

Im not sure if in the past,when you were getting haunted by zetas,how many ic priviliges you had?Fot sure not a squad of 10people vs over 200people.Setting up an hq as a turf and trying to maintain it,means that we are going to play the mod from gta online that you and your friends keep killings waves of people and you have to survive.That is not rp!The fact we started a war is based on madeup rp which i got no problem with some stories being made with extra sauce on them but the fact that you haunt for a reason isnt valid.I even find my self bored and just going up north for some action.You guys(squad of 20 with multiple gangs involved) following me around,i really dont know what you expect from me to do as rp.When i get big and finally get the possibility to show dominance,trust me i wont be chasing underdeveloped organizations on the bank just to ruin their rp and trashtalk that heavily about their money,looks,actions.Like really talk to your people,this is not rp,this is clowning.IC we got business going wrong not personal issues.Having 10 people laughing for my appearance of my virtual char is what i call the current criminal rp.

Edited November 10, 2019 by Castro7

[RealKevinBrank]

+1 Turfs are extremely fun.

[CumFilledFrog]

Massive +1

[eradicati0n]

+1, Criminal RP just isn't as fun as it could be, because there's nothing to fight over. I'd rather see gangs fighting over higher stakes that don't involve civilians, rather than just chasing people around town to rob them constantly, telling civilians to change their clothes and generally just acting as more of a street nuisance rather than an established criminal organization.

[reeceobz]

+1

[moment]

+1 more content, the better for the majority.

[Nick_Smokerson]

+1

[Aldari]

-1 

I've decided to -1 this on the basis that I don't think a reintroduction of turfs as we used have them would be a good idea. The turf system previously was not very good, and was counter productive to increasing RP on the server. 

The turf system suffered from three major issues:

• It involved no RP, you only had to sit on each spot for long enough to tick all three capture points to low health and then capture them. This often took a few hours, as one person on a capture point would increase the damage to the point by 7 up to 42 damage per tick (might have been 49) and I believe each tick was once every 2-3 seconds or so. 
• Gangs would wait until you're logged off to take your turf - unrealistic
• It gave little incentive for big gangs to war each other and a big incentive for smaller gangs to harass bigger gangs

The latter was particularly frustrating. 

I think for a turf system to work it'd have to encourage the following:

• In order for you to keep the turf you have to RP within it
• Turf annexing would have to be moderated enough that it can't happen when an entire gang is offline 
• There has to be conditions that force a gang to capitulate and surrender to another gang. 

I think the turf system could work if the capture points degenerated to, say, 1/2 their health when there is not enough of your faction members inside the turf, this would encourage gangs to stay in their turf and RP there. If they fail to RP in their turf, the turf becomes vulnerable to attack and the gang may lose enough influence over it that someone captures it. 

I think wars and annexing could be moderated better by faction management, perhaps they could host events and wars where normal rules don't apply and they track attacks/defends and then determine a winner of a battle from that. Because right now the current rules don't really facilitate gang wars - a real gang would happily roll up and drive-by another gang they're at war with IRL, but if you did this in ECLIPSE and really any other server you'd be given DM, so perhaps faction management moderated wars could help gangs get the full gang war experience without hindering the rest of the RP on the server.

Lastly, there really needs to be conditions that, once met, another gang is forced to capitulate to you. Turfs gave small gangs a big incentive to never seek peace, and big gangs a big incentive to seek peace. The reason for this is because a big gang would spend a lot of resources and manpower defending its turf from harassment attacks from smaller gangs, I remember my own gang a few years ago spending hundreds of thousands of dollars and 10s of hours defending a turf from a group of 10 people - My gang had 70 people in it. Why was this? Because we wanted to protect our turf and the smaller gang didn't care if they died, they'd just go get pistols, return and try again, but if we died we'd lose AKs, UZIs, our cars would be chopped, etc, costing us a fortune. Despite the fact we wiped them out 10x over and kidnapped them multiple times they had no incentive to actually peace out, even though realistically we wiped their gang off the face of the Earth. Again, maybe faction management can help with this by tracking how much damage one gang is doing to the other and when they have realistically been wiped out the faction management team can force them to peace out.

But yea, I think there is a lot of revisionism that happens around the turf system, it really wasn't as great as people remember it to be. I'm not against turfs, but if they were to come back there would need to be a lot of changes to them. 

[Salvador Rivera]

I still like this idea ! 

[Amaim]

8 hours ago, Aldari_Tagril said:

-1 

I've decided to -1 this on the basis that I don't think a reintroduction of turfs as we used have them would be a good idea. The turf system previously was not very good, and was counter productive to increasing RP on the server. 

The turf system suffered from three major issues:

• It involved no RP, you only had to sit on each spot for long enough to tick all three capture points to low health and then capture them. This often took a few hours, as one person on a capture point would increase the damage to the point by 7 up to 42 damage per tick (might have been 49) and I believe each tick was once every 2-3 seconds or so. 
• Gangs would wait until you're logged off to take your turf - unrealistic
• It gave little incentive for big gangs to war each other and a big incentive for smaller gangs to harass bigger gangs

The latter was particularly frustrating. 

I think for a turf system to work it'd have to encourage the following:

• In order for you to keep the turf you have to RP within it
• Turf annexing would have to be moderated enough that it can't happen when an entire gang is offline 
• There has to be conditions that force a gang to capitulate and surrender to another gang. 

I think the turf system could work if the capture points degenerated to, say, 1/2 their health when there is not enough of your faction members inside the turf, this would encourage gangs to stay in their turf and RP there. If they fail to RP in their turf, the turf becomes vulnerable to attack and the gang may lose enough influence over it that someone captures it. 

I think wars and annexing could be moderated better by faction management, perhaps they could host events and wars where normal rules don't apply and they track attacks/defends and then determine a winner of a battle from that. Because right now the current rules don't really facilitate gang wars - a real gang would happily roll up and drive-by another gang they're at war with IRL, but if you did this in ECLIPSE and really any other server you'd be given DM, so perhaps faction management moderated wars could help gangs get the full gang war experience without hindering the rest of the RP on the server.

Lastly, there really needs to be conditions that, once met, another gang is forced to capitulate to you. Turfs gave small gangs a big incentive to never seek peace, and big gangs a big incentive to seek peace. The reason for this is because a big gang would spend a lot of resources and manpower defending its turf from harassment attacks from smaller gangs, I remember my own gang a few years ago spending hundreds of thousands of dollars and 10s of hours defending a turf from a group of 10 people - My gang had 70 people in it. Why was this? Because we wanted to protect our turf and the smaller gang didn't care if they died, they'd just go get pistols, return and try again, but if we died we'd lose AKs, UZIs, our cars would be chopped, etc, costing us a fortune. Despite the fact we wiped them out 10x over and kidnapped them multiple times they had no incentive to actually peace out, even though realistically we wiped their gang off the face of the Earth. Again, maybe faction management can help with this by tracking how much damage one gang is doing to the other and when they have realistically been wiped out the faction management team can force them to peace out.

But yea, I think there is a lot of revisionism that happens around the turf system, it really wasn't as great as people remember it to be. I'm not against turfs, but if they were to come back there would need to be a lot of changes to them. 

- In order to take a turf from a certain faction there has to be at-least 15% of the opposing faction's members online (60 members --> 9 members). make this enforceable by the script and 2 points that you have a problem with are solved.

It wont be possible to wait for times at which a gang is offline to attack their turf but you will have to have a confrontation with this gang 100% if you try to take their turf.

Small gangs will have to have a confrontation too, if the gang is big enough 60 members (at-least 9 members has to be online)

[alexalex303]

15 hours ago, Aldari_Tagril said:

I think wars and annexing could be moderated better by faction management, perhaps they could host events and wars where normal rules don't apply and they track attacks/defends and then determine a winner of a battle from that. Because right now the current rules don't really facilitate gang wars - a real gang would happily roll up and drive-by another gang they're at war with IRL, but if you did this in ECLIPSE and really any other server you'd be given DM, so perhaps faction management moderated wars could help gangs get the full gang war experience without hindering the rest of the RP on the server.

This is particularly a big issue and why I'd personally like to see faction management more involved and have more power regarding factions and/or disabling server rules.

[JamalBratan]

Lets bring this post again in the top page. Everyone knows that we need this system back into the server. 

[ViktorShaw]

+1, with some new improvements like aldari said, but one of the thing that would make criminal rp fun again

[Jake Shelby]

Sounds good to me! +1

[PingasOner]

Big +1 !!!

[Rolls]

+111

[Felcon]

+1 

[Dim]

+1