John_Hoover Posted September 7, 2019 Report Share Posted September 7, 2019 (edited) I would like to suggest a new Government Faction. Law & Order My idea is to bring a judicial system into town. I would like to citizens of the town to have a fair fighting chance when it comes to being accused of a crime. I do not find it fair that the citizens sentencing is in the hands of the police officers only. They should not be in charge of determining the outcome of punishment of the crime they are accusing someone of committing. I would like like to establish a law firm with a team of highly trained lawyers to fight for our citizens rights. It would also open up positions for a Judge and also court appointed officials. I believe having a courtroom to determine punishment would really liven up the experience in this town. I have always had a passion for being a lawyer and I would love to fulfill it here. In conclusion I would appreciate any and all feedback posted below. Give it a +1 if you’d like the see this come to life as well! Edited September 7, 2019 by John_Hoover 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisy Posted September 7, 2019 Report Share Posted September 7, 2019 A lot of work would need to be put in for this to be carried out. You would be able to roleplay it currently but with the crime rate on this server I don't think we would be able to employ enough attorneys. I would personally like to see something like this implemented due to the cap of jail time removed. Devs have stated before that if people show enough interest and effort in actually creating a faction for this, work would begin but if no one is showing they want to put the work in it is pointless. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Einhart Posted September 7, 2019 Report Share Posted September 7, 2019 The problem I think right now, is that people aren't allowed to show much effort, because only moderators or above can roleplay as a lawyer let alone any of the other myriad parts of a judicial system. I'm certain if that RP was opened up to the average joe it would be more commonplace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindEZ Posted September 7, 2019 Report Share Posted September 7, 2019 If lets say will be like a proper faction with a salary i think a lot of people will enjoy doing this . I will do it for free but most of the people need the money also , so whats the point of losing time when they can do a job or whatever . I think people will love this if it becomes something official , lets say to get payed by the 'case' not hourly. Roleplay something like a tutorial a curse for the begginers and thats it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkylineGT Posted September 7, 2019 Report Share Posted September 7, 2019 Ngg had this, never worked out properly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bala Posted September 7, 2019 Report Share Posted September 7, 2019 -1, this gets brought up all the time and it'll never work out because this is a game where minutes and hours count, not days and weeks. Forget all the faction allegiance or who'd run it or whatever. This fails simply because of the time it would take to get even a standard case through the court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marca Posted September 7, 2019 Report Share Posted September 7, 2019 I think it would be way too time consuming. Arrest, process, gathering people for a trail and getting a final verdict could take an hour if not more alone. Even if you can call a lawyer to the prison later, evidence and everything else would have to be done with /do. The problem comes when you're not sure who the officer that arrested you was or if they're still online, and trusting a one sided /do from a player can be tricky. The charges that are placed against someone are pretty much going to stick either way too, due to the OOC corruption rule LSPD has when it comes to placing charges. The best we can get is a DOC addition for parole officers. Once a certain % of your sentence has passed, you can ask for parole. A parole officer comes, check your record for misdemeanors, guard notes, work activity and other IC things. They can also check your OOC RP quality you provided in the prison. If you did work in the prison and provided good RP, a parole could be rewarded to you and you can be released sooner. This could also motivate people to work and RP in the prison, not just AFK. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obama Posted September 8, 2019 Report Share Posted September 8, 2019 I get arrested unfairly everytime i do a little mistake, i think people will love this. +1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reckless311 Posted September 8, 2019 Report Share Posted September 8, 2019 Plea bargaining doesn't require a judge or jury, that's why this would work. Only the most severe of penalties would be eligible for a court case. I keep hearing that this is being worked on though, but can never get any confirmation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hoover Posted September 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2019 Even without a courtroom setting or a judge. I believe having a lawyer show up to the prison on your behalf to negotiate sentencing for your client would be a great idea. Maybe offer reduced time for good behavior and/ or work in the prison. If the client doesn’t comply that’s his problem. To touch on the salary, it would be salary with a bonus structure depending on how many cases you take and/or how many successful negotiations are made for the clients. You could always have an appointed official in DOC that is in charge of talking with the lawyers and determining the outcome. As far as getting in touch with a lawyer. You get a phone call in prison the number would be easy like DCC it could be 2222. Also it wouldn’t be a problem getting a lawyer, I’m sure it would be a very sought after faction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hoover Posted September 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2019 Also I agree that only the severe cases could be brought to a trial. Something that’s ooc 10+ hours. Of course small prison cases 2-10 hours ooc would be handled in the prison itself with the appointed officials allowed to make those decisions in negotiating with the lawyers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brixton Posted September 8, 2019 Report Share Posted September 8, 2019 This has been brought up so many times. I agree it would be cool if this was possible. I would personally only go as far as letting the person go to jail and serve his time, but after that he can apply with the courts to fight his charges. If the courts accept his request, he would appear in court IN GAME at a said date with the officers whom arrested him and if he wins, the government will refund his lost funds, items, and remove the charges. I dont think this server would really benefit from an all out full on Court system. Just start with something simple to give criminals a chance to fight crime. It makes it realistic and fun for criminals and law enforcement, especially if LEOS have to testify or appear in court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hoover Posted September 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 8, 2019 I agree with what you have said Brixton. I believe that would be the best way to handle it. After being released having a court date set. Not so much a full on court system either. I should have re worded my original statements. I have applied additional input through the comment section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padpilot Posted September 8, 2019 Report Share Posted September 8, 2019 (edited) This is a topic that has been mentioned many time, however through the lens of a gov faction I genuinely believe there is room for this to take shape. Building on from your proposal I would propose thinking around ideas such as these: Have people apply on the forums similar to other gov factions. Just make the requirements ridiculously hard and make sure it's as unbiased as possible. Players then, if they choose, go "on duty" like other factions. Once (for example) 10 people actively go "on duty" players on the server are notified that the "City Council" is now in session. For a case to be heard a player must Have more than 5 (for example) hours to serve in prison. This is to condense the numbers down. They must: have footage of said offence. If they wish to defend it they must provide evidence A player does not have to be in attendance, eliminating heavy logistics a court system "should" have. Should this system develop the on sight DOC facilities for parole (similar to mentioned above) may be an option. Players may only request a "city council" appeal every so often. Similar to only being able to break out of prison, with limitations. Successful or not, that player may be charged for the service. Players must agree that if additional charges are found when the "city council" views any evidence provided from officers that these charges may too be applied to the player/prisoner. Also, should an officer be found abusing their powers that the prisoner be released and compensated accordingly. These are just thinking points sureounding the idea of a functioning Judicial and the ideas of Law and Order within the city. Hopefully something to think around. I believe it is doable should it be thought through and rolled out in the correct way. Probs best to let admin role it our and try the system out first should this ever become a thing Cheers Edit. Considering the growing numbers on the server it would be cool to see this develop Edited September 8, 2019 by padpilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padpilot Posted September 8, 2019 Report Share Posted September 8, 2019 On 9/7/2019 at 1:50 PM, DimaDan said: If lets say will be like a proper faction with a salary i think a lot of people will enjoy doing this . I will do it for free but most of the people need the money also , so whats the point of losing time when they can do a job or whatever . I think people will love this if it becomes something official , lets say to get payed by the 'case' not hourly. Roleplay something like a tutorial a curse for the begginers and thats it This would have to be a long drawn out process carried out by either admins or "old" players with cash who don't have need for money. Especially during the early stages of development. Even then, the system should be use only to bring about more RP. Considering the impact holding a role like this could have on the gameplay of others and their availability to game money should not be introduced from a top down perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hoover Posted September 9, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2019 Well said Padpilot. I’m glad to see the positive input and can only hope to bring this further. I believe I have a lot of details to add but haven’t posted them yet. Wanted to gather as much feedback as possible before releasing my idea of the structured content. From ranks to salary to commissions. I have been thinking on this idea for awhile and I’m sure others have as well. Thank you all for the pointers, tips, suggestions and the overall positive input. Keep the ideas rolling and the suggestions plentiful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasmine Posted September 10, 2019 Report Share Posted September 10, 2019 (edited) We do need a judicial system, and one is in the works (granted I've been hearing that for 6+ months). But I think, like the government faction, it will be hard to keep staffed and operating. People seem to lose interest in that sort of thing. Maybe a few judges in town you can go to when you need them, but even that will be hard to keep up at regular hours. And those people would hold a ton of power....and there is no guarantee they won't be just as corrupt as the cops can be when judging. I am sure "certain" illegal factions would love this though.... Edited September 10, 2019 by Jasmine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hoover Posted September 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2019 Obviously some back ground checks would be in order and maybe not so much judges but appointed officials that would negotiate with the lawyers. As far as the court that wouldn’t be a faction just the law firm itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xoza Posted September 10, 2019 Report Share Posted September 10, 2019 (edited) -1 Suggested already so much. Other government jobs are already lacking in numbers, don't think we could man another. Judges would require policing experience. Lawyers would have to not be criminals. OOC Corruption rules would need to be in place. You would most likely end up in court longer than just doing jail time. It would better to just have an expungement process, so charges could be removed from your record. Edited September 10, 2019 by Xoza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaesarSeizure Posted September 11, 2019 Report Share Posted September 11, 2019 -1 As this was suggested many times over. The processing time for criminals already takes a long time for PD. Now you would just pile on more time for even more people and would be stuck in a single RP scenario for prob longer than you can sit at a PC + it would require long time commitment from all involved parties. Additionally i believe real life law skills would be required just to provide good RP. Sure it could work, but if that was a thing, be prepared for extremely extended sentences to compensate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hoover Posted September 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2019 I have not seen a starving faction yet. I would point you into the direction of previous comments stated above. As many suggestions have been made to make it more appealing. Also I have stated multiple times above in regards to the court not being a faction and simply just having a few appointed officials at DOC to negotiate with lawyers. I also agreed to say that only serious offenses would be held in court (10 + hours ooc) and also I saw above that jail times could be served with a chance of being refunded if the case is won. The server is growing in numbers and several people want to be in a faction. As with any faction thorough back ground checks are made.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padpilot Posted September 13, 2019 Report Share Posted September 13, 2019 On 9/11/2019 at 1:56 PM, John_Hoover said: I have not seen a starving faction yet. I would point you into the direction of previous comments stated above. As many suggestions have been made to make it more appealing. Also I have stated multiple times above in regards to the court not being a faction and simply just having a few appointed officials at DOC to negotiate with lawyers. I also agreed to say that only serious offenses would be held in court (10 + hours ooc) and also I saw above that jail times could be served with a chance of being refunded if the case is won. The server is growing in numbers and several people want to be in a faction. As with any faction thorough back ground checks are made.. It's gonna be hard to even convince people. Unfortunately the server has a lot of older players that have convinced themselves that certain things are just not doable, all this does it stop newer players from trying things themselves. Stuff like this is doable, I mean, the zeta, the triads and the wanted control roungly 150, if people worked together collectively we can make eclipse a much better place to RP. Unfortunately you will find that convincing other players to join/help you is the hardest part as many will just shoot you down . Keep cracking on though mate. You have my support for sure my man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MohammedAli Posted September 13, 2019 Report Share Posted September 13, 2019 -1 40 minute court-battle to reduce a 20 minute to a 10 minute sentence. We'll just be making things longer and longer. I agree the RP will be fun but it just doesn't fit in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padpilot Posted September 13, 2019 Report Share Posted September 13, 2019 18 minutes ago, MohammedAli said: -1 40 minute court-battle to reduce a 20 minute to a 10 minute sentence. We'll just be making things longer and longer. I agree the RP will be fun but it just doesn't fit in. Read the comments and suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldarine Posted September 13, 2019 Report Share Posted September 13, 2019 As stated by multiple people, this has been something brought up multiple times. While I do think some form of judicial system would be nice, I do not think it would work in the way you and others are thinking about and let it be know that this is coming from somebody who has spent over 15 hours drafting documents for an IC law firm. 1. You may not see the concept of "starving" factions but trust me this is true. Recruitment is not as easy as you think for factions and retention is even harder. 2. Most legal systems would end up requiring set hours and/or scheduling which, considering we have lives outside of Eclipse, would be insanely difficult to do. 3. I'd be more in favor of a sub-branch, potentially within City Hall, that can take appeals or requests for record expungement (only under well defined circumstances). Should a bar exam be implemented, players can create law firms and submit these requests to City Hall on behalf of their clients. 4. Overall, as nice as it would be to see some form of a judicial system in Eclipse, this is an insanely difficult thing to actually accomplish. To my understanding, this has been something discussed with higher ups but it's something much greater than a suggestion on the forums or even a faction thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
