Toxic Sexism On The Server

[x2Andrew]

 

10 hours ago, Malcolm Carter said:

Let me guess, you're a man. How often have you felt OOCly hurt and harassed playing on the server? It's clearly a big issue for the women who play on the server and to just say 'ignore it' is to show a real lack of empathy and understanding for what they have to deal with when they are trying to play a game.

To OP, great thread, hope this leads to some positive changes.

 

I have never felt harassed because at the end of the day its a game, the internet, and it will always be toxic. If some people cant understand that then they shouldn't be on the internet and get out more. that's with sugar coating it

Edited July 9, 2019 by x2Andrew

[gyrhnr]

If you're hot you get catcalled IRL all the time. I'm not saying it's right, but need to learn how to deal with it as everyone else, it's the internet where things get a bit more crazy.

[Aldarine]

To those that don't fully understand the issue, let me give you an example of what happened on one of my last adventures into the city:

I wake up from a long night's sleep in my apartment and decide I want to change my outfit. I head on over to the clothing store and begin to pick something new. I'm catcalled 2 times during my walk and then at the clothing store I'm approached by a man who says hello. After responding back via VOIP, I'm surrounded by 3 men, crouching, and walking around me calling me a whore, slut, and a prostitute. I ignore these comments and continue picking out my outfit. After wishing them a good day and walking away, a gun is pointed at me and I'm told to stop moving. They continue to pester me until they had enough and run off. Following this, I go to the parking lot to get my motorcycle. I'm stopped in the middle of walking by somebody who decides to ask me to suck him off. I keep walking and finally get on my bike. I go on over to the bank to get my salary. After exiting the bank and having a nice chat with a few people at the bank, I'm interrupted by somebody who says "let me take you into the alley and show you what a real man is capable of." I'm then followed to my bike and surrounded by a group of guys propositioning me for sex, calling me every single name in the book, and spitting at my feet. I'm finally able to leave to go to work as a medic. My first call of the day is a man injured with a broken leg. I am providing care and talking with my patient when a 4 seater pulls up and catcalls me. They continue to drive back and forth, one even getting out of the car and making crude comments during my medical treatment. After loading my patient into the ambulance and driving off, the same vehicle of men follow me back to Central MD, shouting obscene things through the window.

Now, let it be know that all of that occurred in the span of no more than 30 IRL minutes and that is considered calm behavior compared to most. Multiply that by a minimum of 4, as I spend much more than 30 minutes at a time in the server. If that behavior continues almost everywhere I turn, why would I continue roleplaying? Am I supposed to be expected to walk away and ignore a gun to my face, then getting reported? Am I supposed to not go on duty as a medic? Am I supposed to ignore all harassment and get reported for not responding to RP?

This has absolutely nothing to do with "learning to deal with it" or "getting out more" especially considering that, as a full time worker and educated adult, I get out and about just fine and can deal with things that you wouldn't be able to imagine. As a person on the server, I would like to enjoy my time just like everybody else without having to tiptoe around rudely misogynistic children or cater my RP to their liking.

Now please, refer to the end of the original post where I state:
"I would like to have an actual discussion about this topic, not be told anything along the lines of "get off the internet then" as nobody should be told that when voicing concerns."

If you are unable to grasp the concerns in this discussion, kindly request clarification and try to somehow put yourself in the shoes of somebody who wants to have fun just like you but is being barred from doing so. Just as civilians and criminals go back and forth on threads about how the server isn't fun for them due to limiting criminal rp, rampant robberies, etc. this is a larger issue based around gender groups in the server.

[Aldarine]

54 minutes ago, Flucifial said:

I can say from witnessing past events, that a lot of what you're saying is true and I agree... it mostly happens to only females playing females, and even females playing males, but not males playing females, and I understand why you identify it as an issue. What exactly can we do as staff to better your experience as a player? I'm very sorry for the disturbance you're experiencing thus far and would love to try and help you in anyway I can.

Regards,
Flucifial

It is a very unfortunate circumstance and I despise that it disturbs what can be wonderful experiences in the server. I've sat down and tried to come up with ideas independently as well as alongside other women in the server who have faced the same issues and men who have witnessed it and are bothered by it on their behalf. Sadly the only option we could think of would be to record every single interaction and consistently be on the forums arguing it out which is a waste of so much time when considering how often it happens. I'm unsure if implementing a different way of reporting this, defining it strictly as a server rule, adding overt harassment to the penal code, reporting to PD (although in my opinion these toxic individuals shouldn't even be in the server), etc. would be more beneficial to those that experience harassment which in turn led to this discussion.

[Cyrus Raven]

I'm sorry to hear that your experience has been this negative. I agree that something should be done about this. However, just like you, I recognize that this can be quite a tough task. 

 

I'll try and offer a suggestion with the intended goal to discourage players from RPing in such a sexist manner and then I will also point out a few issues that may come from such a suggestion, so we can potentially come up with a solution.

 

Like the recent thread about homophobia, I feel like Eclipse is a community that allows a lot of different RP scenarios on the server, and while this is commendable it can obviously have negative repercussions (Someone calling an actual black person ''nigger'' or an LGBTQ person playing on the server and having to hear the word ''faggot). As the most popular RAGEMP English server we should be at the front when it comes to progressive thinking (at least this is what I would like to think). Having said this, limitations on common slurs and behaviors should be something that we look to curb because a lot of people use this freedom as an excuse to go around being an asshole.

 

My suggestion in order to discourage this type of behavior is to apply a new set of rules around sexism, racism, homophobia, etc... and have SEVERE punishments for players who chose to break these rules (Perm Ban). This isn't something new to roleplay, virtually every RP server in GTA 5, SAMP, GMOD, ArmA, etc... have a rule set that includes some sort of limitation on these words. The goal is to make everyone feel welcome and not worry about someone insulting you in a way that might affect who you are as a person, in this case, the uncontrollable fact that some of our players are female. Don't they deserve to play the game without having four or five horny players surrounding them as if they were a piece of meat? Does any male player experience this?

 

Now onto the problems.

 

- ''But Cyrus wouldn't this restrict us from doing certain RP scenarios ?'' - Well yes and no. Having a rule set to prevent scenarios where people randomly walk up to a player who they don't know and start spitting out slurs is an overall good thing in my opinion. However, this doesn't mean that if a party of 4 or 5 want to engage in an RP scenario that would include such slurs that it would be ''impossible'', but it would require prior authorization from all parties, just like ERP or torture play. This would ensure that people can't randomly go around harassing other players under the guise of ''mUH rOLe pLAy'' without consulting with them first.

- ''But Cyrus this is the internet and people should toughen up'' - Ok, I get that some of you might get triggered by the word ''privilege'', but this is a real thing. This ''pick yourself by the bootstraps and just deal with it 4head'' mentality is probably the most toxic thing that I've heard on these forums. Everyone is here to have fun and the reality is that some when faced with certain words or attitudes get offended, perhaps you have a rough time understanding this because you don't face these hardships. I think most of us can probably handle being called an idiot or an asshole, but being attacked by people on a daily basis every single time you speak for not having a dick takes a toll on you and it is unrealistic to expect people to ''just get over it''

 

Besides these two main issues, I don't see much that prevents us as a community from having a clearly stated rule set on racism, homophobia and sexism that also heavily punishes people from engaging in such rhetoric unless given permission by all parties, just like ERP and torture. I don't think that going around telling all the women on Eclipse to suck your dick and harassing them is an essential component to the server that we will missed, does anyone honestly feel otherwise?

Edited July 9, 2019 by Kyle White Raven
Spelling

[MrSilky]

From what I have seen it is a prominent issue ICly, but that's exactly it, IC. If it spills OOCly, then that is grounds for a forum report and their potential removal from the community.

As for the IC element, it's all about how you react to advances. Lots of people can be very thirsty ICly. I have noticed as I mainly RP with @Shadow but it's all about how you respond. If you respond in a friendly, flirty way - it's continues beyond repair. If you are to the point from the start, they usually back off. There are very few situations where people pursue something after being told no from the start. Yes you may need to be more stern than you are used to, but it is the only way to get the message across from the start.

People will always be thirsty as this is the internet standard sadly, but if you develop your own IC methods to deter them, they usually stop. If anything goes OOC, it falls under the harassment rule which is a severe offence. 

 

[MildsHawk]

@MrSilky Wait how do you have a crosshair on the video ? or is that another server?

[MrSilky]

Just now, MildsHawk said:

@MrSilky Wait how do you have a crosshair on the video ? or is that another server?

That was pre-update, back when I had good aim

[Cyrus Raven]

11 minutes ago, MrSilky said:

From what I have seen it is a prominent issue ICly, but that's exactly it, IC. If it spills OOCly, then that is grounds for a forum report and their potential removal from the community.

As for the IC element, it's all about how you react to advances. Lots of people can be very thirsty ICly. I have noticed as I mainly RP with @Shadow but it's all about how you respond. If you respond in a friendly, flirty way - it's continues beyond repair. If you are to the point from the start, they usually back off. There are very few situations where people pursue something after being told no from the start. Yes you may need to be more stern than you are used to, but it is the only way to get the message across from the start.

People will always be thirsty as this is the internet standard sadly, but if you develop your own IC methods to deter them, they usually stop. If anything goes OOC, it falls under the harassment rule which is a severe offence. 

 

I understand what you are saying, but you would also recognize that there are situations where regulation is needed even IC'ly, which is why we have rules against non-consensual ERP and Torture right? Wouldn't you agree that if this is a widespread problem being experienced by women in Eclipse RP that it should be delt with the same way that ERP and torture are dealt with ?

[MrSilky]

1 minute ago, Kyle White Raven said:

I understand what you are saying, but you would also recognize that there are situations where regulation is needed even IC'ly, which is why we have rules against non-consensual ERP and Torture right? Wouldn't you agree that if this is a widespread problem being experienced by women in Eclipse RP that it should be delt with the same way that ERP and torture are dealt with ?

I think the worst thing to do would be to distinguish a rule specifically for women as that separates them from the server's 'norm'.

[Aldarine]

1 minute ago, MrSilky said:

From what I have seen it is a prominent issue ICly, but that's exactly it, IC. If it spills OOCly, then that is grounds for a forum report and their potential removal from the community.

As for the IC element, it's all about how you react to advances. Lots of people can be very thirsty ICly. I have noticed as I mainly RP with @Shadow but it's all about how you respond. If you respond in a friendly, flirty way - it's continues beyond repair. If you are to the point from the start, they usually back off. There are very few situations where people pursue something after being told no from the start. Yes you may need to be more stern than you are used to, but it is the only way to get the message across from the start.

People will always be thirsty as this is the internet standard sadly, but if you develop your own IC methods to deter them, they usually stop. If anything goes OOC, it falls under the harassment rule which is a severe offence. 

 

It's honestly more than an IC issue as it has OOC effects and can even be tied into metagaming if you want to push it that far considering the fact that it happens predominantly to women once they are confirmed via VOIP as a female. This over the top harassing behavior does not happen nearly as often to men who RP as women using VOIP yet they should be treated exactly the same. Harassment also occurs to female who RP as male characters using their voice. Also, not to mention that it's disgusting and degrading behavior and has most of the time little connection to the character's personality as presented thus far, it's just a child being a child because they can. Nothing RPly triggers this behavior and, as stated before, if it was part of an actual scenario or character trait then it is what it is. Putting that aside, going along with what you're saying about IC responses, I, along with many women on this server, respond appropriately, attempt to navigate the situation, and become stern as a result. I do not "need to be more stern than I [you] am used to" because trust me I am. The issue is that the taunting and behaviors don't stop appropriately and also inhibit a female's ability to continue our roleplaying experience and change the outlook on the server as a whole. This is an effect on a portion of the roleplay community here. Also, one thing that a lot of people don't consider if that it is incredibly rare for the harassment to go OOC since nothing at all bars it from being said IC. Why risk the trouble of a report when you can just run up to a girl and say what you want ICly with no repercussions?

[Cyrus Raven]

6 minutes ago, MrSilky said:

I think the worst thing to do would be to distinguish a rule specifically for women as that separates them from the server's 'norm'.

The suggestion (if you read my post) isn't exclusive to women, but even if it was I would feel like a rule that curbs the effect of targeted harassment would be valid no ? If you observe a problem that only exclusively happens with X group then most likely one of the best solutions would be to present a solution that would mainly help X group. In this case (at least with my suggestion) it is a set of rules that would help everyone and hopefully remove some of the toxicity that players spread by being given free access to do essentially any and all RP situations (including situations that include extremely racist and sexist rhetoric).

[dude24990]

2 hours ago, Aldarine said:

To those that don't fully understand the issue, let me give you an example of what happened on one of my last adventures into the city:

I wake up from a long night's sleep in my apartment and decide I want to change my outfit. I head on over to the clothing store and begin to pick something new. I'm catcalled 2 times during my walk and then at the clothing store I'm approached by a man who says hello. After responding back via VOIP, I'm surrounded by 3 men, crouching, and walking around me calling me a whore, slut, and a prostitute. I ignore these comments and continue picking out my outfit. After wishing them a good day and walking away, a gun is pointed at me and I'm told to stop moving. They continue to pester me until they had enough and run off. Following this, I go to the parking lot to get my motorcycle. I'm stopped in the middle of walking by somebody who decides to ask me to suck him off. I keep walking and finally get on my bike. I go on over to the bank to get my salary. After exiting the bank and having a nice chat with a few people at the bank, I'm interrupted by somebody who says "let me take you into the alley and show you what a real man is capable of." I'm then followed to my bike and surrounded by a group of guys propositioning me for sex, calling me every single name in the book, and spitting at my feet. I'm finally able to leave to go to work as a medic. My first call of the day is a man injured with a broken leg. I am providing care and talking with my patient when a 4 seater pulls up and catcalls me. They continue to drive back and forth, one even getting out of the car and making crude comments during my medical treatment. After loading my patient into the ambulance and driving off, the same vehicle of men follow me back to Central MD, shouting obscene things through the window.

Well that's just not okay. This is what I would like to see.

-Make a rule disallowing all Sexual Assault style RP, and the motivation of forceful sex as a means of RP.
-Higher enforcement (and reporting) of sexual harassment. Cops, you should be enforcing the laws and take these reports seriously.
-A sex offenders list, those proved of sexual misconduct should be put on a list and treated with the same prejudice they've shown against members of the opposite sex.
-The calling out and shaming of people verbally assaulting others, disturbing the peace, sexual vulgarity as "funny" or entertaining.

Most of the examples you provide are not just words, many of them have the threat of action behind them that can seriously effect someone's time in game.
There needs to be more enforcement of the rules, additions to the rules and we as a community need to shame and punish those who target others in such a way, severely

[Cyrus Raven]

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, dude24990 said:

Well that's just not okay. This is what I would like to see.

-Make a rule disallowing all Sexual Assault style RP, and the motivation of forceful sex as a means of RP.
-Higher enforcement (and reporting) of sexual harassment. Cops, you should be enforcing the laws and take these reports seriously.
-A sex offenders list, those proved of sexual misconduct should be put on a list and treated with the same prejudice they've shown against members of the opposite sex.
-The calling out and shaming of people verbally assaulting others, disturbing the peace, sexual vulgarity as "funny" or entertaining.

Most of the examples you provide are not just words, many of them have the threat of action behind them that can seriously effect someone's time in game.
There needs to be more enforcement of the rules, additions to the rules and we as a community need to shame and punish those who target others in such a way, severely

Just like to make a couple of points. It is very important to distinguish between those engaging in RP and those being malicious, unfortunately, as it stands it is very hard to tell which is which, sometimes people will engage in this behavior at not realize that the player on the other side has gone through the same thing on a daily basis.

 

Having said this,

 

- Increasing police presence is a good IC idea. However, it is important to note that reports are not enough to convict unless the player has video evidence, otherwise it turns into a ''he said she said situation.'' All we can do is increase presence in populated areas to catch the act ourselves.

 

- A sex offenders list could be good, but not sure how it would play out IC'ly, maybe it would allow victims to have a restraining order, which would allow PD to arrest individuals breaking it when presented with the restraining order on scene.

 

 

My goal at least isn't to completely eliminate behavior that could be considered sexist (so calling a woman a bitch or cunt), but to stop the behavior that is borderline harassment (AKA what was described in the original post with regards to hoards of players crouching and harassing them  as well as low effort RP that isn't caused by a player's IC character, but more by their OOC issues).

[Aldarine]

24 minutes ago, Kyle White Raven said:

The suggestion (if you read my post) isn't exclusive to women, but even if it was I would feel like a rule that curbs the effect of targeted harassment would be valid no ? If you observe a problem that only exclusively happens with X group then most likely one of the best solutions would be to present a solution that would mainly help X group. In this case (at least with my suggestion) it is a set of rules that would help everyone and hopefully remove some of the toxicity that players spread by being given free access to do essentially any and all RP situations (including situations that include extremely racist and sexist rhetoric).

I absolutely agree and I meant to say it earlier but your suggestion is a really good one. Of course people are always anti more rules until it is something that curbs in their favor. Harassment is targeted towards very specific groups of people for no reason whatsoever. Things in the server are not always peachy keen and it is horrid some of the things that happen and have a negative impact on server perception. If there is a valid RP reason for certain behaviors then so be it, I'm always up for quality RP that makes sense but when it's seeded in the idea of "I can do whatever the hell I want and be as offensive as I want because it's funny" and it starts to infringe on enjoyment of the server, that needs correction.

[Victor Einhart]

Well, non-consensual sexual roleplay is already against the rules, so there is a point to be made that the folks in question especially in some of these examples are not abiding by the rules of the server when they come up and start that kind of thing.  That tells me the trouble is the people in question, and is not the intended environment.  These sorts of people need to ask OOC before they start this sort of thing.

My first instinct is to say "report it," but like you say you'd be spending a long time pounding out reports and all that time you could have been spending on the server.  And a report - even if you get it addressed ingame - doesn't fix the short-term problem that your experience at that moment was ruined

 

31 minutes ago, dude24990 said:

-Make a rule disallowing all Sexual Assault style RP, and the motivation of forceful sex as a means of RP.
-Higher enforcement (and reporting) of sexual harassment. Cops, you should be enforcing the laws and take these reports seriously.
-A sex offenders list, those proved of sexual misconduct should be put on a list and treated with the same prejudice they've shown against members of the opposite sex.
-The calling out and shaming of people verbally assaulting others, disturbing the peace, sexual vulgarity as "funny" or entertaining. 

- It's already against the rules to do this without asking OOC first.
- We can't enforce it if nobody calls us, unless we just so happen to stumble across it while on patrol.  Pick up that receiver and we'll make you a believer.
- +1 I'd like to see this, there's already a precedent with mugshots and fingerprints in the MDC system.
- Not sure about this last one.  It opens the doors to a cycle of harassment OOC in my opinion.  The folks in question might behave like garbage but that doesn't mean you and I have to sink down to their level and call them names, too.  I see where you're coming from to try and deter people through the threat of ruining their reputation, but I'm uneasy about cultivating negativity.

Edited July 9, 2019 by Victor Einhart

[TwitchDadTV]

Having read all the posts hopefully something comes from it, was encouraging to see that @Flucifial has acknowledged what you have said. I feel that doing nothing about it is simply a means of supporting the behavior and obviously there is quiet a few players on the server it is happening to if you have had conversations with other players experiencing the same thing. From a normal players perspective a lot of the suggestions put forth to address the situation seem feasible to help alleviate the issue and potentially put an end to it. Potentially even if rules were put in place around this then it will force those who take it to far and come on here for that sole purpose to take it to another server.

Ultimately if something comes from it then it can only lead to positives for the server in the sense of people feeling more comfortable playing and actually getting enjoyment from the game which in turn should also potentially affect players coming on the server and staying knowing they aren't going to have a lot of problems discussed which extend past RP as everyone spreads the word about the environment.

 

 

 

[Wifye]

I believe the big point that needs to be addressed with this subject, along with others, is how people use the guise of "rp" as a way to condone their actions. What I mean by this is that far too commonly are people trying to get away with doing things under the "it's RP" argument without much of a real reason for it. Many rules on this server are in place to avoid this being abused such as rules regarding kos/kidnapping/mutilation/rape but obviously we can't get too crazy with more rules for every little thing.

What we should do is develop a "reasoning rule" of a sort. This would basically follow along current non-RP rules but offer more insight into reasoning and justification of actions if inquiried upon. The target of this would be to challenge players to actually have more in character justifications and reasoning for their actions than just OOC motivations of "entertainment". If you decide to play a discriminating or otherwise controversial character, you need to come up with reasonable justifications for it and probably have to post it somewhere on the forums as well. This would cut down on the trolling via "it's RP" while still permitting controversial characters just like how we saw an improvement with criminal factions when moving to official ones.

Edited July 9, 2019 by Wifye

[Ridley]

10 hours ago, Aldarine said:

Yes, this is the internet. Yes, there are trolls. Yes, you do need somewhat of a tough layer of skin when committing yourself to this. When it gets to the point of impacting your RP time and enjoyment is when it becomes a bigger issue. Personally, I have been forced into an RP scenario for over an hour consisting of nothing but sexist aggression with absolutely no way out - trust me I tried - that completely ruined what I hoped to be a fun RP day. Again, this is not a one time thing, it happens over and over. 

What exactly did you try? Did you leave the character/group who was annoying you behind, then find roleplay someplace else? If they followed you, did you try doing what what make sense in real life (calling the police)? If you told the players you were uncomfortable OOCly, and they continued harassing you anyway, did you file any kind of complaint? What constitutes "sexist aggression" to you?

There's a big absence of vital information here.

 

[Aldarine]

1 hour ago, Ridley said:

What exactly did you try? Did you leave the character/group who was annoying you behind, then find roleplay someplace else? If they followed you, did you try doing what what make sense in real life (calling the police)? If you told the players you were uncomfortable OOCly, and they continued harassing you anyway, did you file any kind of complaint? What constitutes "sexist aggression" to you?

There's a big absence of vital information here.

 

I don't see a lack of vital information anywhere. As I want no part of those scenarios, I do what I can to navigate and end/get away from the situation. I explore all avenues that make sense ICly and all but hightail it out. What is said OOCly means nothing ICly as there is nothing that enforces it. If somebody wants to be an ass and you ask them to chill OOCly, they are under absolutely no bounds required to do so, therefore, there is nothing to file a complaint about. If complaints were made of the forums via reports, it would be so frequent it's absurd and the age old response would be "it's my roleplay."

Edited July 10, 2019 by Aldarine

[Ridley]

41 minutes ago, Aldarine said:

I don't see a lack of vital information anywhere. As I want no part of those scenarios, I do what I can to navigate and end/get away from the situation. I explore all avenues that make sense ICly and all but hightail it out. What is said OOCly means nothing ICly as there is nothing that enforces it. If somebody wants to be an ass and you ask them to chill OOCly, they are under absolutely no bounds required to do so, therefore, there is nothing to file a complaint about. If complaints were made of the forums via reports, it would be so frequent it's absurd and the age old response would be "it's my roleplay."

Sounds like there's nothing to "fix" then. Take care.

[Aldarine]

6 minutes ago, Ridley said:

Sounds like there's nothing to "fix" then. Take care.

I'd advise you to read full threads from start to finish before stating that as the issue has been stated multiple times. Should you chose not to, best wishes in your RP.

[Cyrus Raven]

7 hours ago, Ridley said:

Sounds like there's nothing to "fix" then. Take care.

An issue that exclusively affects one portion of the player base, nothing that can be done AT THE MOMENT because of the lack of rules and regulation but I guess there is ''no fix'' in your eyes.

 

I wonder if the racism clause hadn't been written if you would say that there is ''no fix'' for a player being called the n word multiple times and people not stopping even after being told OOC'ly... The point of this thread is to discuss the issue and come up with solutions going forward, but I guess that's hard for some.

[GhoulSlaya]

This is absolutely sickening and I'm not sure why you or anyone else would even want to log on anymore after having these things continue to happen.

14 year old shit heads like those described don't deserve to be on this server or any other community on the circuit. I truly hope something can be done.

 

[OBESE]

Dear @Aldarine,

I must say I am happy that finally a female is pointing this out and bringing it up as an issue on the server. When I started to play on this server, like 6 months go, I joined a big group and although we did not have many females I still saw the overall attitude when players find out someone is a real female playing a female character. It made me sick, because, sure it's a game, but it just went against what I believe in RL and I understood how tiring and hurtful it might get with the time,  even considering it was all done ICly, it does weight on the OOC aspect as well as you're not just targeted due to the fact that your character is female, but especially because you are a female behind the screen as well, which is totally an OOC issue. I had a little chat with the leaders of that group to not support such way of communication against female characters and it was agreed, became an OOC rule in that organisation that I was part of. But that mainly was towards the female's who also were part of the group and sadly did not involve all of the female characters on the server. 

My point is that same as in RL, also in the server, it depends of who is bringing up the issue and who can affect the situation, who can actually do things. If I, as a male, would have done this thread, I would probably not get nowhere and just be called stupid, which was a thing when I talked about it, inside the group I mentioned before. So that is why I said Im happy that you did this thread as it has been bothering me as well, for a long time. Now the second bit of - who can change this or how can we change this? In my opinion it all comes down to the influential people on the server. The example they show to the community. If we look at the criminals, which probably is the majority part of the harassers, then it all comes down to the leadership. If the leadership says - we do not disrespect women or act like they piece of meat, then the members will follow that. But because the leaders do not do that or enforce it, the members just go through with it and do whatever they like. I guess a good example would be our friends JayGambles response on this thread where he cared more about the fact that someone was singling out criminals as those who does this, than the issue itself. So there we have it, the leader of most influential and strongest criminal organisation on the server, setting the example. Rules might be added, reports might be made, but as long as the dogs will not be controlled, they will stay dogs.

When it comes to what advise I could give to you and all the other ladies on the server, then I really do not know what to say, because I have not personally had to deal with it, yes I have witnessed it a lot, but that is not the same. The best advice I could give is to try to find the right people, the right group, to hang out with, so that the good interactions grow and overgrow the amount of this harassment until it changes, if at all. Sadly it does end up to the fact that we as a community have to set an example and while there will be players who act like 15 year olds on viagra, it will be what it is. This goes down to a lot of issues on the server, not just this particular one.

I hope that you have your fair share of people that give you the right amount of good quality rolepaly. If I happen to meet you on the server I will make sure to add to your experience as much as possible.