Toxic Sexism On The Server

[Aldarine]

I have been on the server for a bit of time and I truly do enjoy my time IC. I've had lots of great moments but sadly there is a negative side that tends to outweigh everything positive - the blatant toxic sexism. Being a female on the server and RPing a female character is one of the most frustrating and toxic things ever. When not using VOIP, the comments are somewhat hit or miss (some are respectful, others try to bait VOIP, and then some are downright absurd) but the moment my microphone goes on, the harassment begins. The consistent name calling, targeting, and cornering is absolutely ridiculous and most of the time crosses a line into being uncomfortable. Being forced into the same RP scenarios of a group of men circling you and calling you every single name in the book over and over again or followed for miles on end just to be sexually harassed is ridiculous and disgusting. 

This is an issue that has come up time and time again. Am I aware that the vast majority of the server is male? Absolutely. Does that pardon disgusting behavior, make it alright to practically force female characters into using text chat to hide their voice, and ostracize a targeted group of players? Absolutely not. Is it alright for this consistent behavior that has no connection to an IC backstory/personality traits to be brushed aside? I do not think so. It has come from multiple people across multiple discussions that they have hesitations about even inviting females to join the server due to this behavior. There are presently females in the server that are decreasing their RP time as well due to this. It is an absolute shame that this is becoming a truth and is just accepted.

Yes, this is the internet. Yes, there are trolls. Yes, you do need somewhat of a tough layer of skin when committing yourself to this. When it gets to the point of impacting your RP time and enjoyment is when it becomes a bigger issue. Personally, I have been forced into an RP scenario for over an hour consisting of nothing but sexist aggression with absolutely no way out - trust me I tried - that completely ruined what I hoped to be a fun RP day. Again, this is not a one time thing, it happens over and over. 

So now, I ask, how can we, as a community, make this better? How can we all have fun, embrace our characters and their traits, and at the same time decrease this very Non-RP (in my eyes) behavior?

Thank you for taking the time to read and chime in on the discussion. All I ask is that you refrain from making derogatory, offensive, and disrespectful comments in this discussion. I would like to have an actual discussion about this topic, not be told anything along the lines of "get off the internet then" as nobody should be told that when voicing concerns. Let's stay respectful and kind please.

[TheCanadian]

2 minutes ago, GWXCORE said:

I wish it wasnt true in game or out. I am up for implementing a fix. Maybe allow blatant harassment be grounds for physical response? Some Kyle says something gross and you put a Heavy Pistol to his head since his comment could realistically have made you fear for your safety?

This is already allowed, unless by "to his head" you also mean pull the trigger. If someone harasses you, you are allowed to point your gun at them and give them demands. Same as if they dont, it would just be a normal robbery. This wouldn't fix much

[Aldarine]

8 minutes ago, GWXCORE said:

My only response, as a dude I dont know what your personal experience is, I just know what Ive seen being around women ingame and in real life.

 

You say the constant catcalling is Non-RP and while I acknowledge that its awful for anyone to go through, constant catcalls and harassment is probably the most realistic part of the server. Some men are just awful people in that manner. So the server mimics real life there.

 

I wish it wasnt true in game or out. I am up for implementing a fix. Maybe allow blatant harassment be grounds for physical response? Some Kyle says something gross and you put a Heavy Pistol to his head since his comment could realistically have made you fear for your safety?

While I completely agree and accept that catcalls, sexism, harassment, and such are realistic as I do experience them in real life, the extent to which it happens and is accepted on the server toes the line of realism. It also raises the question of "is this your character's personality?" which the majority of the time, the answer is absolutely not. I'm absolutely in support of fully embracing your character even with their negative traits but what I have experienced during my time in the server thus far is, with all due respect, childish targeting of female characters to determine if they are truly played by females and then an escalation from there. If it is truly part of their character, why does this treatment not always happen when a male RPs as a female? Also, from everything I have experienced in real life, scenarios such as a group of 10 men crouching around a female, trapping her, and yelling derogatory remarks on a daily basis in high pedestrian areas, following a female's vehicle across the entire city to harass her, sexual propositioning in front of the police station followed by disturbing comments following a denial, etc. beg to raise the question of realism and appropriateness. 

[Aldarine]

42 minutes ago, TheCanadian said:

This is already allowed, unless by "to his head" you also mean pull the trigger. If someone harasses you, you are allowed to point your gun at them and give them demands. Same as if they dont, it would just be a normal robbery. This wouldn't fix much

While I would say using a gun would be a valid solution, consider factors such as NCZ, large groups of people outnumbering you, employment in a legal faction, he said/she said accounts, being shot at in retaliation, etc. Presently this harassment happens in such a way that your hands are basically tied and acceptance of it is forced which is so sad.

[Reckless311]

It's disgusting behavior and it's ironic that criminals often use the line "at the end of the day, this is just a game". Do you think making people uncomfortable is enjoyable to them?  There is far too much of this on the server and I often stick up for women in these situations and of course the insults of white knight get thrown around, despite having RP reasons for acting the way I do. I think if enough males in the server stand up to those obnoxious males that it could make a difference, but that would only last until there are noone around to defend their friends,  etc. It's unconscionable to allow this type of behavior and if you reported everyone, I'm sure you would spend most if your time on the forums.

People want to be assholes that's fine, but they do it in ncz's so there is no recourse other than reports or publicly arguing with some narrow minded twit. Remove the ncz protection for people that are being asshats like that and I think them getting shot by the female's friends would give them pause to do something like that in the future.

 

I have a few female friends and it always sickens me the way they are talked to by the obviously younger folks.

[heartgg]

I disagree with holding someone at gunpoint over catcalling, but it is pretty bad how people treat women IC. But you also have to remember that majority of the server and criminals are low end thugs and gangbangers.

On another note, this is just a side effect of the internet. People are anonymous and hold no repercussions over things said IC and OOC. Nobody would really say those things but because they can, they do.

[Aldarine]

29 minutes ago, heartgg said:

I disagree with holding someone at gunpoint over catcalling, but it is pretty bad how people treat women IC. But you also have to remember that majority of the server and criminals are low end thugs and gangbangers.

On another note, this is just a side effect of the internet. People are anonymous and hold no repercussions over things said IC and OOC. Nobody would really say those things but because they can, they do.

I would never point a gun at somebody due to catcalling or inappropriate behaviors (this also frequently happens in a NCZ so it's moot anyway). Even with the vast number of low end thugs/gangbangers, does that excuse some of the sickening behaviors? Absolutely not, especially when it has no connection to their IC personality, no grounds for saying it, and is frankly being said for "shits and giggles" and to garner a response from a female player. Something to remember is that even though this is the internet, we are also a part of a community where there should be a level of respect that doesn't include ostracizing players for being a female. We all want to have fun here, not deal with absurd behavior on a daily basis.

[Riderz]

*crusader music* 

 

Just don't go to bank

Edited July 9, 2019 by Tezhl

[Aldarine]

10 minutes ago, Tezhl said:

*crusader music* 

Here is a reality. You want realism, fine life is not fair nor does it care for how you are treated/feel. If there are issues at bank and you don't like them, the solution is don't go to that particular bank and or limit your time spent there., and if you strip that rule at NCZ, what's the point of an NCZ. 

With all due respect, I think you're fully missing the point of this discussion. There is a blatant stigma against women on the server that makes it hard to have an enjoyable time without having to hide from certain areas. There is targeted harassment to the point of being so unrealistic it's unbelievable and again, disallows proper and fun RP for female players. Going off of what you're saying, I would have to spend 99.9% in my vehicle or home and avoid mostly all interactions. That does nothing to solve the actual issue as again, this behavior occurs everywhere.

Also please note that harassment is actually a crime. ICly speaking, this would make it so no harassment can occur in a NCZ, however, with no judicial system in place to define the laws of the land, it is perfectly fine for this to occur.

Edited July 9, 2019 by Aldarine

[JayGamble]

58 minutes ago, heartgg said:

criminals are low end thugs and gangbangers.

 

2 hours ago, Reckless311 said:

It's disgusting behavior and it's ironic that criminals often use the line "at the end of the day, this is just a game".

Where did she say criminals at all? The bias is unreal here. Are you guys under the impression that no one but criminals act creepy? If so, it shows how really out of touch you are with seeing social behavior on this server.

[Aldarine]

4 minutes ago, JayGamble said:

 

Where did she say criminals at all? The bias is unreal here. Are you guys under the impression that no one but criminals act creepy? If so, it shows how really out of touch you are with seeing social behavior on this server.

With respect, I ask that you keep the discussion to the topic at hand as opposed to picking out the long battled back and forth criminal this - criminal that. This discussion is not meant to nitpick at whom is doing these acts but moreso to focus on curbing the acts in general. I would very much not like this to get off track.

[JayGamble]

1 minute ago, Aldarine said:

With respect, I ask that you keep the discussion to the topic at hand as opposed to picking out the long battled back and forth criminal this - criminal that. This discussion is not meant to nitpick at whom is doing these acts but moreso to focus on curbing the acts in general. I would very much not like this to get off track.

perhaps you should make that clear to them as well. 

[dude24990]

You don't have to give these people any attention or pay them any mind. You could show them a healthy level of contempt, low life thugs are just that, low life thugs.
Maybe consider that the people harassing you in game are inept, impotent and possibly lacking something in the real life that they feel the need to dominate over you?
Honestly look at what these dudes say plainly, I bet it comes from a place of insecurity. No need to feel that of yourself. Seriously, say nothing and let them hear themselves.
If it comes to it, the one thing that makes men and women equal is a gun. Don't let anyone impose themselves on you without good intentions. Men compete, women select. Find good company. That's all I can say.

Edited July 9, 2019 by dude24990

[Aldarine]

3 minutes ago, JayGamble said:

perhaps you should make that clear to them as well. 

As long as the discussion is being expanded on I have no vested interest if criminals or civilians are pointed out and therefore no need to correct. This topic is meant to shine light on toxic behavior exhibited by members of the server towards females. My correction towards you in particular is due to your post not expanding on the topic at hand but more so focusing on the mention of criminals. I kindly ask that you step back and provide feedback and input to the topic of discussion. Thank you very much.

[heartgg]

16 minutes ago, JayGamble said:

 

Where did she say criminals at all? The bias is unreal here. Are you guys under the impression that no one but criminals act creepy? If so, it shows how really out of touch you are with seeing social behavior on this server.

Lmao I’m not even gonna get into this 

[Reckless311]

17 minutes ago, JayGamble said:

 

Where did she say criminals at all? The bias is unreal here. Are you guys under the impression that no one but criminals act creepy? If so, it shows how really out of touch you are with seeing social behavior on this server.

I was making a parallel to a concept that was used in the discussion over no cap prison, never said she said that.  Hopefully that clears up your confusion.

[Aldarine]

13 minutes ago, dude24990 said:

You don't have to give these people any attention or pay them any mind. You could show them a healthy level of contempt, low life thugs are just that, low life thugs.
Maybe consider that the people harassing you in game are inept, impotent and possibly lacking something in the real life that they feel the need to dominate over you?
Honestly look at what these dudes say plainly, I bet it comes from a place of insecurity. No need to feel that of yourself. Seriously, say nothing and let them hear themselves.
If it comes to it, the one thing that makes men and women equal is a gun. Don't let anyone impose themselves on you without good intentions. Men compete, women select. Find good company. That's all I can say.

What the issue quickly turns into is female players just not wanting to partake in RP. I wish it was that easy to just ignore it but even in examples I've given you're just trapped. It's behavior that should have no place in the server. We need respect amongst one another on even just a miniscule level to allow us to enjoy our time just like everybody else.

Edited July 9, 2019 by Aldarine

[JayGamble]

If you feel harassed, you should reach out, or create a complaint to get the behavior rectified. I'm not sure how much can be done to control this behavior 100%, as I think that is explained by others in the thread. There are hundreds of people to interact with, try to avoid those who give you a hard time or make your experiences poor. 

[Reckless311]

2 minutes ago, JayGamble said:

If you feel harassed, you should reach out, or create a complaint to get the behavior rectified. I'm not sure how much can be done to control this behavior 100%, as I think that is explained by others in the thread. There are hundreds of people to interact with, try to avoid those who give you a hard time or make your experiences poor. 

I understand that it's a difficult topic to navigate, but that could lead to hours a week of reporting this since it is so pervasive.  Letting others keep you out of an area that you can have some interesting rp kind of sucks.  Now you have to alter your behaviour because of others.  It just doesn't seem right or fair.  I'd love to see an ignore option, because some people are never going to learn until staff bans them after enough reports.  You see the dilemma with that solution, right?

[dude24990]

5 minutes ago, Reckless311 said:

 Letting others keep you out of an area that you can have some interesting rp kind of sucks.  Now you have to alter your behaviour because of others.  It just doesn't seem right or fair.  I'd love to see an ignore option, because some people are never going to learn until staff bans them after enough reports.  You see the dilemma with that solution, right?

The ignore option is you ignoring the person talking shit. We don't need a feature for this do we? You can go where you want no one is forcing you to interact with them.

Edited July 9, 2019 by dude24990

[Aldarine]

4 minutes ago, dude24990 said:

The ignore option is you ignoring the person talking shit. We don't need a feature for this do we? You can go where you want no one is forcing you to interact with them.

Sadly, this is not as easy of an option as you would imagine. Many times interactions are forced due to being followed/chased/cornered. It's really disgusting and degrading.

[Flucifial]

I can say from witnessing past events, that a lot of what you're saying is true and I agree... it mostly happens to only females playing females, and even females playing males, but not males playing females, and I understand why you identify it as an issue. What exactly can we do as staff to better your experience as a player? I'm very sorry for the disturbance you're experiencing thus far and would love to try and help you in anyway I can.

Regards,
Flucifial

[x2Andrew]

Point blank if you feel hurt or harassed on a RP server, ignore it. If you feel that uncomfortable then you probably have more things to worry about in real life.

[Malcolm Carter]

1 minute ago, x2Andrew said:

Point blank if you feel hurt or harassed on a RP server, ignore it. If you feel that uncomfortable then you probably have more things to worry about in real life.

Let me guess, you're a man. How often have you felt OOCly hurt and harassed playing on the server? It's clearly a big issue for the women who play on the server and to just say 'ignore it' is to show a real lack of empathy and understanding for what they have to deal with when they are trying to play a game.

To OP, great thread, hope this leads to some positive changes.

 

[Hills]

It's sad that you had to witness such trolls but life is not perfect these kind of people are found in every community and there is no way you can stop them unfortunately.