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ShyNudist

Rampant robberies is failing Fear RP

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It's been mentioned everywhere already, so I don't need to reiterate the problem of people "RPing" criminals running around with guns, finding every joe schmo on the road, point a gun, yelling "HANDS UP", typing /frisk and /do success?, and then making off with everything the player has, from burgers and water to radios and guns, and then driving off with the player's car.

Not only is this garbage RP from the get-go, but wanton chain-robbing should be considered a violation of Fear RP.  There's a reason why people don't get robbed at gunpoint constantly in real life.  Criminals are both afraid of prison and also afraid of being killed by the police.  Yet on the server, criminals behave as if they have zero fear of the police.  They willingly get into shootouts, they don't care about getting caught, and they're more than happy to rob, stash, and deposit, and then get into a shootout and afk in prison once the cops finally catch up to them, if at all.

Fear RP needs to extend beyond merely complying with everything someone says when they have a gun pointed at you.  The whole point of Fear RP is to create a realistic RP scenario.  The consequences of either capture by the police or even death are so low that player's don't RP as if the threat of violence or death is even real.  Either make criminals bound by Fear RP, or change the rule so civilians don't have to comply with every demand just because someone was hiding in a corner in the foundry, using 3rd person view to wait for the first non-new player to walk by before jumping out and yelling HANDS HANDS HANDS.

Edited by ShyNudist
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2 hours ago, ShyNudist said:

 

 Yet on the server, criminals behave as if they have zero fear of the police.  They willingly get into shootouts, they don't care about getting caught...

 The consequences of either capture by the police or even death are so low that player's don't RP as if the threat of violence or death is even real.  

You nailed it with these two lines. 

The solution to this is tricky though. It would take some scripting and rule changes which most people (i.e. most criminals, i.e most of the server) will reject. It will take some changes to IC probabilities of being caught, increase in punishment, and also OOC enforcement of proper criminal FearRP. These are things deeply ingrained in Eclipse culture, and will be tough to convince people to change, accept and adjust to such changes.

Hell, I am a Civ RPr, and that big of a change even scares me...

I think it will take more civil discussion, and smart, calculated moves by the devs to get it right.

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They don't care about being caught because one and a half hour in prison is nothing compared to all of the guns and money they steal in a day(s)-long robbing spree. There is a need for drastic change in legal consequences, however it seems that most criminals are opposed to them.

see:

 

Edited by alexalex303
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There is no fear of death if somebody fights back or you get in a shootout with the police, there is no fear of spending years in prison. People go around without acting like there won't be consequences for their actions (because there mostly isn't, aside from losing your rights to gun ownership).

Edited by Linden
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I agree, I am more and more in love with the idea of 24-48 hour sentences in prison that can be slowly worked down or served offline as well... that would be a much bigger deterrent to the guy at the mines who runs by and holds a gun to a man in broad daylight for $1000 worth of copper... A lot of people say that if criminals are off the street LSPD wont have anything to RP but I disagree, what about community watch, what do cops do when they aren't on call... LSPD currently has so many calls half the time your call isn't even answered in time to get there... I've had a response take nearly an hour proving they have way too much to deal with atm, and as for criminals, quite honestly everyone wants to be the big guy with the gun, wants to feel powerful at the expense of another on this server, but nobody wants to serve 48 hours in prison... well everyone wants to rob a million dollars from the bank IRL but nobody wants to spend 30 years in prison.... Recently its been popping up more and more on the forums and I am glad, I hope a dramatic wave of change comes that kills this cops and robbers mentality and drives the city into more real RP... where the mentality isn't "don't like it, just CK" because CKing is a huge deal because youve put tons of character development into a character...

I think the major point is... half the people in the server don't RP, they RPG where they just collect money and rob... I ended up joining the DOC and I love it there but I never wanted to be a prison guard... I did it because it was the only taste of RP I could get.... real interactions... since then I have expanded my circle and can throw small get together and have some meaningful interactions, but there's probably 30 people on my list that I'd care to call for a party or cookout... and lord knows I could never throw a public event. We need some different rules to encourage real RP... character development.

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On 6/14/2019 at 5:35 PM, Linden said:

There is no fear of death if somebody fights back or you get in a shootout with the police, there is no fear of spending years in prison. People go around without acting like there won't be consequences for their actions (because there mostly isn't, aside from losing your rights to gun ownership).

Which for criminals isn't a problem because they can buy them just as cheap off the black market... or buy them from a friend... gun license laws hurt everyone but criminals atm.

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The solution isn't to increase punishment for crimes, IMO.  The solution is to hold criminals to the same standard of Fear RP that civilians and non-criminals are.  Criminals need to realistically fear death and prison, but they do not, while civilians are expected to comply with every demand when a gun is pointed their way.

Criminals playing on the server as if they DGAF about dying or getting caught is Non-RP and should be punished as such.

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8 hours ago, Wizzidy said:

I agree, I am more and more in love with the idea of 24-48 hour sentences in prison that can be slowly worked down or served offline as well... that would be a much bigger deterrent to the guy at the mines who runs by and holds a gun to a man in broad daylight for $1000 worth of copper... A lot of people say that if criminals are off the street LSPD wont have anything to RP but I disagree, what about community watch, what do cops do when they aren't on call... LSPD currently has so many calls half the time your call isn't even answered in time to get there... I've had a response take nearly an hour proving they have way too much to deal with atm, and as for criminals, quite honestly everyone wants to be the big guy with the gun, wants to feel powerful at the expense of another on this server, but nobody wants to serve 48 hours in prison... well everyone wants to rob a million dollars from the bank IRL but nobody wants to spend 30 years in prison.... Recently its been popping up more and more on the forums and I am glad, I hope a dramatic wave of change comes that kills this cops and robbers mentality and drives the city into more real RP... where the mentality isn't "don't like it, just CK" because CKing is a huge deal because youve put tons of character development into a character...

I think the major point is... half the people in the server don't RP, they RPG where they just collect money and rob... I ended up joining the DOC and I love it there but I never wanted to be a prison guard... I did it because it was the only taste of RP I could get.... real interactions... since then I have expanded my circle and can throw small get together and have some meaningful interactions, but there's probably 30 people on my list that I'd care to call for a party or cookout... and lord knows I could never throw a public event. We need some different rules to encourage real RP... character development.

Yea I started playing yesterday and ive already noticed lots of people not actually roleplaying or just poorly. People shooting at me for accidentally hitting their car, people openly brandishing guns infront of a bank, people approaching me casually asking me if I want to buy a gun and even giving me their phone number as well as wearing face masks in public with police not really enforcing that, but the latter would be more of an IC issue I think. Still i think it breaks immersion. 

I was hoping most ppl here would actually be a bit more serious roleplayers considering the extensive application process one has to pass before being able to play on the server. Guess there’s always the bad apples in any community and maybe the bank is just one of those subpar hotspots i should have avoided. Oh well!

also i am with you on increasing jail times to 24 hours standards. It encourages more long term prison RP and character development and has got criminals thinking twice about their actions. While not inevitable, (a smart criminal wont be caught easily by the police)  it may get people curious about the legal sides of roleplay instead. Police shouldnt have to worry about not having any criminals to arrest, either. Definitely not in a place where give or take 90% of the server pop is a criminal. (an educated guess) like i said, a clever criminal will find their ways and probably deliver a much higher RP standard as well.

 

perhaps its also the scripts limitations that kind of incites the whole cops & robbers esque scene. If there were more interesting, non-repetitive legal jobs or factions, maybe things would balance out a bit more. Interactive jobs all revolving around peaceful(human) interaction with other people, encouraging RP. For example it would have been nice if the parcel deliverers had to deliver parcels to actual players who had actually ordered something. I realize an idea like this may be out of reach due population limits but its just an example.

Edited by Raindance0
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This server has nothing to do with RP . It's filled with  18 y o kids  with inferiority complex trying to be "the boss" playing rude alpha gang members.  They ruin RP for every good player , new or old. The Fear RP rule is stupid by essence too as not everybody is supposed to react the same way in real life conditions. 

 

 

Edited by HuguesDarez
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On 6/14/2019 at 11:15 PM, alexalex303 said:

They don't care about being caught because one and a half hour in prison is nothing compared to all of the guns and money they steal in a day(s)-long robbing spree. There is a need for drastic change in legal consequences, however it seems that most criminals are opposed to them.

see:

 

I agree with you Steel 100% on this, prison times should be drastically increased not even connected to this topic but in general,because having to sit in prison for 2hours is nothing, have a movie on the side to watch or a youtube video, or a documentary or an interview or anything like that and that's it, you are out. Personally, I think all charges that are targeted towards the criminal world so ( robberies, possession with intent to sell or just possession of illegal weapons/drugs, etc. etc.) should be between 24-72h that could be served offline yes, but would still make that character spend time away from the streets and inside the prison itself, if you think about it, the whole new prison has been mapped out and implemented, but how much of it is actually used besides the cellblock and processing room? If people were to spend more time in prison hours wise, a lot more of prison RP would be created and a lot more immersion would come down to DOC as a faction since they wouldn't be in charge of just processing people and here and there preventing a breakout or separating a fight. As someone who has played a criminal character for most of their time here, and been in prison numerous times I am 100% agree that things need to change so people actually immerse themselves into their criminal characters more and actually plan and think of their moves and actions which break the law... That would also indirectly make the IB department of PD have a lot more of RP to do, checking the fingerprints at the location, collecting evidence, detaining people, getting eye witness statements, collecting information and perhaps even open a whole new world of RP of people RPing as Lawyers. Currently RPing a Lawyer has no use and is basically done just for fun, but in future, if any of the changes would to be made, criminals that would want to stay out of prison would always have a Lawyer by their side, etc.

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First, let me start off with saying, and this is coming from a “criminal”, that I agree that prison sentences need to be increased. I’d also like to state you would have an extremely hard time finding a single person that I’ve robbed that wasn’t out of retaliation for attacking me first. I simply do not rob civs.

In my opinion, the problem is more complex than just increasing sentences. There has been numerous occasions where I have been arrested via illegitimate methods. Allowing a single officer to slap down a 24-48 sentence without a trial, evidence being provided, etc seems like it will create just as many problems as it solves. 

First step of this in my opinion would be to allow someone to plead guilty or not guilty upon arrest. Pleading not guilty would require a judicial system implemented that can handle the legal aspects (but if found guilty would result in a longer sentence). This is how it’s done in the US. While I don’t exactly agree with the US and their prison reform, it works, kind of. 

 

Tl;dr

Prison sentences need to be increased, but I’m not sure long sentences can be supported via the current system. Police should not be judge, juror, and executioner. 

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I'm going to preface everything I'm saying with this. On my criminal character all I do is Rob people, my character doesn't care if your a woman or child or a hard working farmer, he likes to rob and steal. 

The main reason I can get away with so much robbing and why I don't have much fear of doing it is 2 reasons.

1. There are far too few cops, I rarely ever have cops catch me stealing from people, and when they do call they take so long to get there I've already gone.

I think this is either cause by a) just not enough cops online or b) which I've noticed alot of is, for small crimes I've seen 3 cop cruisers show up each with 2 cops inside of each car, a couple days ago I think 4 cop cars showed up to arrest me sitting at a chop shop. It's ineficient to send so many cops to a scene, it leaves people waiting for police officers.

2. Prison sentences are far to low, the only reason why I hate going to prison is it's the worst rp in the game. Here is an example of how most of my prison sentences go:

I get brought into the prison complex by a police, I'm then greeted to 10 or so doc officers waiting outside, they do the normal booking, which can be fun and then I'm brought inside the prison and then rarely if ever see a doc officer again, only times I see them are if they are brining another inmate in. They basically do 0 guarding other than to stand at the front gate.

Then if us prisoners decide to try to take on a guard to take him hostage to revolt against the prison conditions and the lack of supervision we get told in /b hey you have no reason to do that, bad rp, dm, blah blah... Well if you were actually guarding us and being in with the prisoners maybe you would be able to over hear our plans, and stop us in the first place.

The prison is usually filled with afk people, and this could be fixed by the upcoming update of currency and poker and longer sentences increasing the chance that when you do go to prison you will be there with more than 2 other people just standing around 

Just my two cents.

 

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On 6/20/2019 at 12:17 PM, Brawnkoh said:

First, let me start off with saying, and this is coming from a “criminal”, that I agree that prison sentences need to be increased. I’d also like to state you would have an extremely hard time finding a single person that I’ve robbed that wasn’t out of retaliation for attacking me first. I simply do not rob civs.

In my opinion, the problem is more complex than just increasing sentences. There has been numerous occasions where I have been arrested via illegitimate methods. Allowing a single officer to slap down a 24-48 sentence without a trial, evidence being provided, etc seems like it will create just as many problems as it solves. 

First step of this in my opinion would be to allow someone to plead guilty or not guilty upon arrest. Pleading not guilty would require a judicial system implemented that can handle the legal aspects (but if found guilty would result in a longer sentence). This is how it’s done in the US. While I don’t exactly agree with the US and their prison reform, it works, kind of. 

 

Tl;dr

Prison sentences need to be increased, but I’m not sure long sentences can be supported via the current system. Police should not be judge, juror, and executioner. 

This is an interesting concept, I kind of like that idea, guilty or not guilty... but just make pleading not guilty come with a big cost, monetarily and sentence wise.... if they are found to be guilty... that way people who are definitely guilty won't plead not guilty just to do it or impede PD. Instead it could come with an attorney bill and a much longer sentence... its not perfect but there might be something to that kind of system in absence of a fully functioning judicial system.

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On 6/14/2019 at 7:43 PM, ShyNudist said:

It's been mentioned everywhere already, so I don't need to reiterate the problem of people "RPing" criminals running around with guns, finding every joe schmo on the road, point a gun, yelling "HANDS UP", typing /frisk and /do success?, and then making off with everything the player has, from burgers and water to radios and guns, and then driving off with the player's car.

Not only is this garbage RP from the get-go, but wanton chain-robbing should be considered a violation of Fear RP.  There's a reason why people don't get robbed at gunpoint constantly in real life.  Criminals are both afraid of prison and also afraid of being killed by the police.  Yet on the server, criminals behave as if they have zero fear of the police.  They willingly get into shootouts, they don't care about getting caught, and they're more than happy to rob, stash, and deposit, and then get into a shootout and afk in prison once the cops finally catch up to them, if at all.

Fear RP needs to extend beyond merely complying with everything someone says when they have a gun pointed at you.  The whole point of Fear RP is to create a realistic RP scenario.  The consequences of either capture by the police or even death are so low that player's don't RP as if the threat of violence or death is even real.  Either make criminals bound by Fear RP, or change the rule so civilians don't have to comply with every demand just because someone was hiding in a corner in the foundry, using 3rd person view to wait for the first non-new player to walk by before jumping out and yelling HANDS HANDS HANDS.

Record and report, i say it could be NONRP 

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Maybe time in prison would help, but what about heavier fines?  Everyone is trying to make money, so hitting their wallets seems to be the biggest thing that could be done to curb this obnoxious behaviour.

 

I posted the concept of valuing your life/freedom in another thread. See, those that get into shootouts with cops are inherently violating the most basic principle of RP, valuing your life, but that's never discussed.  This would fall under fear rp. 

 

The solution is not entirely IC, the ways rules are enforced have to be changed in order for anything to work.  Require higher level RP.

 

The police are so overwhelmed as it is that they can't do anything currently and get bad attitudes towards civs who complain IC. Making it so PD can handle their workload would increase the RP.

Edited by Reckless311
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I think the biggest issue is that being in jail doesn't mean that you are missing out on much besides robbing people. Again I want to stress that there isn't much for criminals to do. All they got is mundane tasks to make monney. Do shootouts and rob people. 

They death timer was hated but served a purpose.

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1 hour ago, Reckless311 said:

Maybe time in prison would help, but what about heavier fines?  Everyone is trying to make money, so hitting their wallets seems to be the biggest thing that could be done to curb this obnoxious behaviour.

I exactly see nothing wrong about the server right now and from what i love is there are more freedom over here, If you want actionsRP then i guess fivem is your place to be in filled with shitlords troll players who just goes around and robbing people or they just live stream *TROLLING SERVERS* or there might be just that one fucked up hacker around the server ruining everyone's fun. and yeah sounds like a LUA coding, using lua in 2019 lol.

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15 minutes ago, MildsHawk said:

I exactly see nothing wrong about the server right now and from what i love is there are more freedom over here, If you want actionsRP then i guess fivem is your place to be in filled with shitlords troll players who just goes around and robbing people or they just live stream *TROLLING SERVERS* or there might be just that one fucked up hacker around the server ruining everyone's fun. and yeah sounds like a LUA coding, using lua in 2019 lol.

See, that's the problem.  You're probably in a gang and never played a civ in this RP server. This is supposed to be about quality RP. Getting robbed repeatedly ruins other people's scenes and fun, but that's ok?

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An old popular SAMP server I used to roll with had this policy where if you died in a RP with the police or was injured and RP'ed your death out of it while EMS was on site it was instant CK and police record on you would basically put you out of many legal activities. It was like an "ooc" push to be a normal civilian.

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