Increase Required Escalation for Raids or Remove them Completely

[checkky]

Hi,

I’m sure most of the players who endure in Crim RP know, the raids for some reason have been on the uprise from PD. Unfortunately due to how the server is formatted, it is very asset based. PD going on a raid frenzy is only going to kill off Crim RP even more, considering the fact that players who play on their criminal characters is already decreasing very quickly. I understand players who play LEO characters may see raids as a “peak” in their roleplay experience as a LEO, but at the end of the day it’s killing off their player base the more assets that are removed from PD/SD.

 

With this being said, I’d like for people to give their input of the current situation with PD’s raids on the uprise, and possible ideas/suggestions that can be made for future engagements to better help the server and player base of the server. As in my opinion, these raids are a playing a part in the decline of Crim RP.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Checkky

[RAttlesnake7473]

GOD BLESS SOMEONE SAID IT, can't stop anything anywhere without PD coming to steal it. On a serious note, its killing the criminal side of the server and once were all gone it'll be CIV RP, Ban evader RP and cops. Something needs to change

[Bala]

Perhaps you shouldn't horde all your illegal items in a residence with your name on when you are regularly conducting serious criminal activities?
I'm not sure standing around for fifteen minutes, roleplaying blowing up safes with explosives or gaining entry to a house is "peak roleplay" but it's a necessary part of investigative roleplay. In some senses, it's not that enjoyable but it's necessary.

Perhaps instead of suggesting that law enforcement is limited, think and be smarter in what you do with your assets. Don't make it so easy.

[checkky]

Just now, Bala said:

Perhaps you shouldn't horde all your illegal items in a residence with your name on when you are regularly conducting serious criminal activities?
I'm not sure standing around for fifteen minutes, roleplaying blowing up safes with explosives or gaining entry to a house is "peak roleplay" but it's a necessary part of investigative roleplay. In some senses, it's not that enjoyable but it's necessary.

Perhaps instead of suggesting that law enforcement is limited, think and be smarter in what you do with your assets. Don't make it so easy.

Perhaps you guys should be considerate on an OOC level that criminals on this server are dying? And whoever said we make it easy for you guys, as most criminals nowadays have to put their stashes in apartments/houses that aren’t even in their own names. Let alone of the fact you guys are intimating players to even own any assets, just for you guys to take away/search (with admin assistance of course) for your own amusement.

[RAttlesnake7473]

2 minutes ago, Bala said:

Perhaps you shouldn't horde all your illegal items in a residence with your name on when you are regularly conducting serious criminal activities?

Rather us have it under someone else's name that 1. Pretty much no one can be trusted with unless you've know then ooc for years or know them ooc or have the house sold due to inactivity and lose it all anyway. What PD is doing right now is killing crim rp and there's no excuse for it.

[Harley]

skill issue tbh

[checkky]

5 minutes ago, Bala said:

Perhaps you shouldn't horde all your illegal items in a residence with your name on when you are regularly conducting serious criminal activities?
I'm not sure standing around for fifteen minutes, roleplaying blowing up safes with explosives or gaining entry to a house is "peak roleplay" but it's a necessary part of investigative roleplay. In some senses, it's not that enjoyable but it's necessary.

Perhaps instead of suggesting that law enforcement is limited, think and be smarter in what you do with your assets. Don't make it so easy.

It’s insane also how you guys put the players who throughly enjoy seeing players quit the server on a pedestal, so they continue to aid the decline in criminals in the first place. It’s simply unneeded, and is way overdue for some kind of change to adapt to the current player base.

[ShawnsBeard]

Just now, Bala said:

Perhaps you shouldn't horde all your illegal items in a residence with your name on when you are regularly conducting serious criminal activities?

I would agree with this sentiment if the server had more script options available for storing belongings away.  Currently, your safest option to avoid raids is a stash vehicle kept at a local parking lot that you never touch, which really doesn't make much RP sense in itself and is incredibly risky to take anything out. 

I would love to see the server give more options for storage, which could allow players to thoroughly hide and spread their vast stashes of illegal items.  Just an example would be a storage rental facility, which would allow players to spend x amount per week to access their own personal storage with limited space - say 500-1000 lbs.  Or another example would be a command to enable players to create a 'stash' out in the world that could be accessed similar to old house stashes - but have a short range indicator to display their location if someone were to get close enough, similar to how the world interaction options for items dropped on the floor become visible only when close to their location.

At the end of the day, people are forced into making large stash houses that have to be under their characters name due to the nature of the server.  This in turn, allows for people to be extremely screwed out of hundreds of hours worth of work put into their roleplay for essentially a script limitation.  I personally think that detective/investigation RP is and should be a big part of the PD/Crim interactions on the server, but I do feel that as crims we have very limited realistic options for maintaining a stash of items safely.

[Herbo]

Raids are IC, just because someones losing some stuff they grinded for doesn't mean it's OOC. The server is called Eclipse Roleplay not Eclipse Asset Grind.

Like I said at the top, raids are IC and can generate numerous amounts of roleplay for those involved. Raids aren't something that happen at a snap of your fingers, they have to go through multiple processes before it can even be discussed and planned, just because you don't actively see the RP because it's happening behind closed doors, doesn't mean it's not there, raids generate roleplay for so many different parties. For example,

• DB/SIB - They're actively doing the investigations for the raids to happen, could take hours and hours of actual playing time to gather all the evidence they need. Then they have to organize all that which is even longer, then they gotta submit the warrant and ensure all the evidence that's gathered is actually VALID. This is hours of roleplay and work for them that isn't seen by the public.
• METRO/SED - They actively assist in the raids, if there's safes they get to actually put their EOD training into use, they do the breaching and scene security. That's actively giving them RP.
• GOB Units - While they don't always get to partake in them, they have the chance to go and help block off roads and just do some general LEO RP that's different from there standard roleplay.
• The individual getting raided - While they may lose motivation, they could turn this into a whole slew of RP opportunities for themselves, especially when it's a member of for example CSB or Rooks. They could take what happened and actively turn it into high-quality roleplay that can then be posted on the forums to showcase their factions. Just because they lost some stuff doesn't mean it's the end of the world. ESPECIALLY when it comes to the fact guns are dirt fucking cheap now. Crims, especially the big ones recently have so much money it's ridiculous. You can make 20ish thousand dollars every 15 or so minutes with cooking, potentially even more. 
  
  Along with that, you have a whole slew of potential revenge/hunting RP that your faction/group could go into. Attempting to hunt down and kidnap or kill the detective that went above and beyond to have your house raided, that's providing more and more RP.

I think that these raids are just being so over exaggerated as to what's causing the decline of crim rp. I just don't see how something that is affecting such a niche amount of people is "killing" the servers crim population. Everyone that has stopped playing crim all have their own reasons for it. I personally think that the current decline of crim RP is something that should be discussed by the people who are considered the "leaders" of the criminal community and staff to identify what are the common issues and fix them. There's a lot more damaging things happening that are making people leave the server then some PD/SD raids that are happening that don't affect them in the slightest.

All in all, just learn to be smarter with your weapons, why do you need a gun stash worth $800,000, the chance that you go through $800,000 worth of guns is so low. Be smarter, sell guns buy other houses to spread your stashes out. The players that have been getting raided are loaded with cash and guns, keeping that much in 1 place is asking to get raided. I think people just got too comfortable since PD/SD did very little raids until recently and it caused them to get lazy with how they handle their weapons. It takes a total of 13 seconds (If you're slow) to put a heavy, a .50, AP, etc into a bag and then put it on your back. Just be smarter and more careful.

[AtlasOLimbo]

2 hours ago, ShawnsBeard said:

I would agree with this sentiment if the server had more script options available for storing belongings away.  Currently, your safest option to avoid raids is a stash vehicle kept at a local parking lot that you never touch, which really doesn't make much RP sense in itself and is incredibly risky to take anything out. 

I would love to see the server give more options for storage, which could allow players to thoroughly hide and spread their vast stashes of illegal items.  Just an example would be a storage rental facility, which would allow players to spend x amount per week to access their own personal storage with limited space - say 500-1000 lbs.  Or another example would be a command to enable players to create a 'stash' out in the world that could be accessed similar to old house stashes - but have a short range indicator to display their location if someone were to get close enough, similar to how the world interaction options for items dropped on the floor become visible only when close to their location.

At the end of the day, people are forced into making large stash houses that have to be under their characters name due to the nature of the server.  This in turn, allows for people to be extremely screwed out of hundreds of hours worth of work put into their roleplay for essentially a script limitation.  I personally think that detective/investigation RP is and should be a big part of the PD/Crim interactions on the server, but I do feel that as crims we have very limited realistic options for maintaining a stash of items safely.

This. I wasn't even aware that names were directly attached to properties until now. We need more storage options, especially for criminals that aren't just "ah yes I will stash all my belongings in a void".

[Smoke1]

.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Smoke1

[Apex]

Just for clarification, raids aren't the rise or nothing. As far as I am aware, those warrants have been there for very long and they were all executed together, which can explain why banned players are getting raided. 

Getting raided is a major setback in an asset-driven server, but I don't think that PD should just turn a blind eye to people walking in their houses with AKs. 

FM should be providing official gangs with storages and warehouses to stash their weapons rather than houses that are registered to them. But then it you get that raided then it's you a issue.

So you should probably bring it up with FM.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Apex

[Apex]

5 hours ago, Checkky said:

Let alone of the fact you guys are intimating players to even own any assets, just for you guys to take away/search (with admin assistance of course) for your own amusement.

Here you're just talking nonsense because if you don't have SOLID evidence on a property JB wouldn't warrant the search. I'm sorry to say but if you got raided then you did something wrong and it is only you to blame.

[Harveyyy]

If you think the raids are not fair or imbalanced from an OOC perspective, you can reach out to a member of Legal Faction Management.

In terms of server rulings, there is nothing wrong here. LEOs can raid any place on the map as long as they have sufficient IC evidence/investigation. I'm not gonna say "deal with it IC" because obviously you can't do much at this point, but maybe you should think of other ways to reduce the loss per-raid... 

[zooke1]

Or do more quality roleplay and don't flex your heavies then be mad when you lose them? And don't store them in places that are known to be yours? You think the mob cooks drugs in their living room? Or that they have 10 AKs under the bed? Considering there's no way for PD to find out who owns the house unless something happens there, you'd be safe and sound if you'd put your mind to work a little. It's funny how crims act like they own the world with how rich they are but if you check game suggestions it's full of the same guys protesting :)) You will never be pleased, no changes will ever please you, if this changes, tomorrow you'll find another reason

[LucasJHughes]

7 hours ago, Checkky said:

It’s insane also how you guys put the players who throughly enjoy seeing players quit the server on a pedestal, so they continue to aid the decline in criminals in the first place. It’s simply unneeded, and is way overdue for some kind of change to adapt to the current player base.

In some cases what Checkky is saying is valid,  People are targeted due to certain people not liking them OOCLY and on the other hand individuals are not raided or "let off" due to OOC friendships, there is some gangs or people that are not touched in this aspect and then others are hunted and any reason possible is found to raid them.

I'm not saying raids need to be removed but potentially more thorough evidence or escalation is needed to commit these raids and or more transparency when someone is raided to make sure these raids are done properly and with proper escalation on an IC and OOC level.

[LucasJHughes]

9 minutes ago, zooke1 said:

Or do more quality roleplay and don't flex your heavies then be mad when you lose them? And don't store them in places that are known to be yours? You think the mob cooks drugs in their living room? Or that they have 10 AKs under the bed? Considering there's no way for PD to find out who owns the house unless something happens there, you'd be safe and sound if you'd put your mind to work a little. It's funny how crims act like they own the world with how rich they are but if you check game suggestions it's full of the same guys protesting :)) You will never be pleased, no changes will ever please you, if this changes, tomorrow you'll find another reason

Regarding the "no way for PD to find out who owns the house unless something happens there" this is not true a friend of mine got raided very recently and in some places that were raided he had never even stepped foot in more than once when he was buying the place so this is false.

If you seem to have a problem with us simply questioning things or suggesting changes then you simply don't have to look at them on the forums instead of trying to belittle the small criminal community when we believe there is a problem or concern.

Edited August 24, 2023 by LucasJHughes

[TheCactus]

If you want to play the game, don't cry when you get played by the game.

Nothing changed in terms of raids from what I got told. Work smarter, not harder. If you get caught lacking, you gotta get ready for that L. Any other words: skill issue.

Edit: After reading everything I noticed that most of those who reply have no clue about how raids are planned and reviewed. They only know how they are executed and the results. If you have absolutely zero information about a topic, why do you talk about it? Why don't you ask around first, receive some info IC and some that can be shared OOC and then share your opinion? It's like going to a meeting about nuclear energy and complaining about them while you have zero knowledge about physics and chemistry. What do you want achieve with your lack of knowledge?

 

@Checkky Also youre taking it on such an OOC and personal level. "Raiding for amusement" and intentionally killing crim roleplay. Calm down buddy. You got raided. It happens

Don't let emotions affect your judgement. If you get raided you have to learn from your mistakes. Smart and careful criminals should be rewarded while loud clappers will have to accept the consequences.

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by TheCactus

[checkky]

17 hours ago, TheCactus said:

If you want to play the game, don't cry when you get played by the game.

Asking for ideas/suggestions to better aid this issue, as it absolutely is playing a part in the decline of criminals on this server, not a stigma comment.

17 hours ago, TheCactus said:

@Checkky Also youre taking it on such an OOC and personal level. "Raiding for amusement" and intentionally killing crim roleplay. Calm down buddy. You got raided. It happens

If I got raided or not, which is IC, is irrelevant to this conversation. I'm simply trying to stand up for the players that did, by detectives that do not like these players on an OOC level, and enjoy seeing their assets become wiped.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Checkky

[checkky]

3 hours ago, Harveyyy said:

If you think the raids are not fair or imbalanced from an OOC perspective, you can reach out to a member of Legal Faction Management

Personally I gave up on trying to reach out to staff in PMs, as half of the time you get e-go'd with no response or care to your claim, however I have tried in the past so thank you for this suggestion.

 

5 hours ago, Apex said:

FM should be providing official gangs with storages and warehouses to stash their weapons rather than houses that are registered to them. But then it you get that raided then it's you a issue

I couldn't agree more this statement, as most factions on this server use the 'turf-based' warehouses at the current moment, as there is no "start-up" investment for them. However, these turf warehouses can easily be taken away from other factions, due to them overtaking your turf. If you wish you claim the typical "it's IC" route, then go ahead. However, I do agree that FM could be providing warehouses to factions to prevent them from "hiding all of their eggs on one basket", and could help players/factions diversify their assets as the current status of the server is asset based.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Checkky

[TheCactus]

32 minutes ago, Checkky said:

Asking for comments/suggestions to better aid this issue, as it absolutely is playing a part in the decline of criminals on this server, not a stigma comment from a PD reject. 

There's no need to insult someone if they don't agree with your biased opinion. Also quitting a faction because you dont feel like it's worth your time no more doesn't mean you're a reject. I still think PD/SD conduct raids fairly and realstically, with the help of the Judicial Branch, and you are unable to take an L.

You guys should stop thinking " Oh yea cops raided me because they hate me OOCly ". That's just a poor excuse cause you can't accept the loss. It really doesn't matter if someone hates you or not OOCly, you won't get raided if you are smarter. IC evidence is still required and it takes more than a faction to accept a warrant. The OOC hate is a card that everyone uses when cops screw you over. It takes a mature person to stop using that card.

 

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by TheCactus

[Bala]

Just sounds like gear fear to me. The same mentality that made people upset when they couldn’t cook drugs safely in their apartments. 

If the crim side of things is suffering, it’s nothing to do with the raids. It’s to do with the support from the script, the rules and the mentality of the criminals. 

Raids are just an IC consequence of something. Move your stash around, don’t keep too much stuff in one place, only buy what you need to use there and then etc..

Not ‘no mr policeman take it easy on us and let us keep our illegal stuff in our houses. ‘

[Cyrus Raven]

I won't say the warrant system is perfect, but trust me when I say that raids would be worse if there was no oversight from JB. However, this also means that if you're getting raided from an approved search warrant, there is more than plenty IC probable cause to justify the raid.

 

I don't understand what some of you mean when you say Detectives are OOC'ly targetting you, the more simple answer is that they've interacted with you IC'ly, put work into evidence gathering, built a case and executed a warrant based on all of that RP they've likely spent hours on. How hard or easy their job is solely depends on how smart of a criminal player you are. There are ways to get around it.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Cyrus Raven

[THNDR]

2 hours ago, Checkky said:

I'm simply trying to stand up for the players that did, by detectives that do not like these players on an OOC level, and enjoy seeing their assets become wiped.

I am very dissapointed, having to hear these sort of accusations. I have been involved in countless cases of planning and seeking search warrants onto houses and none of them have been based on ooc hate. My team and I work hard to gather IC evidence for IC crimes, to follow up with IC consequences. 

Removing the raids completely would make no sense. That would allow all houses to be PD free zones and remove all liability from the criminals. I have been involved in multiple cases, where the criminals have outsmarted us with multiple houses, rented houses etc. It is possible not to have your stuff raided. 

Blaming anything OOC is a cheap excuse to being ignorant to the time and effort that goes into these scenarios from our side. 

[Cup]

My only issue with raids is how there can be little to no RP opportunities depending on when they are done tho i have no real solution on how to fix this.

 

For example, if I rply went to sleep in my apartment (went to work irl) and my apartment gets raided, its just awkward that i don't wake up until i get home and apparently slept thru it.

 

But again thats not something i really know how to solve