Increase Required Escalation for Raids or Remove them Completely

[Ritchie Stones]

Raiding one appartment, that has something to do with the curent rp, 100%yes. But “all houses “? No, if you would be caught in a car with at least 3 heavy’s then you could be suspected of a terroristic organisation, that would be of great concern.  But i think all apartments is just to much.
 

In dont mind to adapt to not stacking guns and drugs to massive amounts anymore.  100% but as of now there are people losing everything they worked for 2-4 years if not more, 

it doesn't matter if its rp correctly or not. If someone takes a loss to big, they just quit. “Lost 2 million. Okay bye, nothing to see here anymore” 

fair or unfair.  You are losing players. No players no game, simple

[cannons]

I think raids are good but need more then someone walking in a house wit a 50 like they need to walk in house wit Ak on there bak or sum I also know LEOS have been raiding houses when players log out a lot instead of them being online and that’s another issue I think there is imo 

[ash816]

Having been the victim of a raid or two I see a few issues with the current system, obviously I don't advocate for their removal as they have a time and a place when the justification is right.

So once a warehouse location becomes known IC, that location is essentially completely burnt. We have had many instances of being followed from a "suspected gun shipment" where we lose the cops, but they stalk out these locations gathering "intel" instead.

Once this location is burnt, raided or known as a gang affiliated asset, any time we lose the cops subsequently, they are camped.

So the next option is to have something in someone else's name, invalidating the whole turf/warehouse system, which I guess is fine, can be raided all the same but you are just invalidating the whole turf/warehouse system which seems like an issue to me, there is also no nice IC way to handle this sort of thing and people realistically leave the server all the time. This is also limited by the fact that properties are sparse and commonly brought up by those richest on the server.

Buying a warehouse and making it a faction property is hard, considering a lot of these assets are brought up, probably owned and unused, leaving not many rp sound or logical places for us to own a warehouse. Having previously asked the cartel players for assistance in obtaining different warehouses and being told a flat NO, leaves obtaining other warehouses tricky. Otherwise this seems like it would be the most reasonable way to get around it if we could sell or trade the turf controlled warehouses and there were more options for these locations. Alongside the warehouse issues my criminal experience had also recently involved the following (in my opinion):

1. Reports denied from on scene + involved admins dismissing reports immediately with the explanation of "its IC"
2.  Subjected to witch hunts because the cops/admins don't find what they expect to
3.  Ruleplayed (rammed by cops off of bikes or hit to be prevented getting onto a bike / blocked off in the city whilst I'm doing 160 to stall me then held at gunpoint to abuse they can subject me to fear rp or circled for 20mins until they can find a reason to disturb /search us)
4.  Mocked ic and ooc for submitting IA reports even though they get upheld 75% of the time
5. Noticed shadow changes to drug tables to make them blow up more often when unwatered
6. Had our life invader page taken down (presumably by an admin?) when it shouldn't have been
7. Our attempts at legal endeavours wont be supported by people in legal factions due to affiliation, even if this affiliation is not direct
   
   Me and other members of the faction have been pmed about great crim rp and constantly trying to think outside the box of "shoot them" as a faction but being focused icly + pressured to the point I don't want to login due to how oppressive the legal factions can be with all of their benefits, then add on top some of the script limitations of the server playing a contributing factor, there seems little way back from the precipice of being a known criminal, operating from known illegal locations, as part of a known criminal organisation, which is now an issue when we will be pressured constantly  (even though rply there should be more cars on the road and other stuff to do) some of these attacks have certainly seemed personal and focused and in some cases are still being discussed between CFM and LFM. Whenever I am pulled over I will always and forever be treated with criminal prejudice only forcing further escalation to the point where me and others will just lose all of our assets and leave the server. Don't get me wrong I understand that this comes with the territory but at some point this prejudice needs to reset or as the OP here suggest changes need to be made so we can at least hold out for a reasonable amount of time by being given a few more options.

 

My RP with cops now consists of "cant talk to you sorry this might hurt my career" which when there are 200 people around makes it an oppressive experience being on the server which I have no way back from, even when I will have compliments on the rp from those involved in the unique or light-hearted displays we try to put on as a faction (though don't get me wrong I personally have also been unpleasant my fair share too). This is where I agree with the OP that the criminal experience is lacking and a overall negative experience, certainly with many members of the faction I am a part of getting to breaking point.

We are very much in a damned if we do (shoot cops, provide this type of rp, investigations raids etc) and damned if we don't position (do nothing but the bare minimum to survive as a criminal faction, which currently consists of being treated like we are shooting at cops anyway and being icly toxic, which is driving players away because that is not what we are doing) which is exacerbated because of the script / server economy limitations.

So only option is to use a rented car (from a player because the scrapyard vehicles flag up fishy) , go to a rented property in different clothes when doing anything, which realistically someone from a cop faction can just sit and watch me do 24/7 at some point anyway, from 400meters away with a sniper scope. This is how it has been for many years and every avenue available to a criminal is well known and hashed out by the legal factions. This to me is the worst part of it all because it is very hard to innovate when nothing new has been added.

TLDR
A good change for me would be "scrapyard" type apartments where you can rent them for a week/month for 50k or something, you turn up at tinsel or any of the apartment complexes and rent a room in cash for stashing, then this is not affected by how difficult it is to get a house on the server and you have an (albeit expensive) option to hide something not in your name. This is then not at least tied to you and wouldn't be a part of a raid where all your registered properties are attacked. Perhaps make the space limited so you cant wedge 50 guns in there, but at least distribute some assets.
Fix scrapyard cars to 1) not be the worst cars on the server and 2) not flag as "unregistered" or whatever they currently do, immediately arousing suspicion. 
Add some more criminal only warehouses but limit the amount of warehouses a faction can have, they would still be subject to the same rules ie make rp sence to own etc, but allow some freedom for gangs to make more sensible choices, which seems to be every cop main opinion in this thread.
Some element of these locations being treated like labs, areas of "high criminal activity" but once raided the IC knowledge of affiliation becomes void, given the limited options we have as criminals. Maybe a combination so if a warehouse is unused by a faction for 3 months it loses its "known affiliation"


As someone part of a faction that does its best to teach , supply and nurture new criminals whilst providing unique and funny RP opportunities for everyone else, it is saddening to see the opinion that there are no issues with the current system(s) and I hope that outlining some of my experience can bring some light to those that don't spend the same time and effort as I and others in my faction do to create roleplay even when its becoming increasingly hard to do so.

[checkky]

Unfortunately my friend, with the current status of the server, this will never change. 

[Puzzling]

I've made multiple millions from criminal RP and never once got my house/property raided or arrested (minus a reckless op or two) 

To be fair, I don't touch guns so I don't get seen with shotguns and aks while randomly driving around but that's just part of it I guess.

[DoTo]

Over the years, I've essentially been involved in every aspect of raids being conducted in some way or another as I've had characters in commanding positions in SDs GND and Internal Affairs. I'd like to touch up on a few points made in this thread.

First off, IC raids are not and were never based on any OOC distaste or motive from any of the involved investigative units. The nature of the system doesn't allow this, it's simply not possible for something like that to affect IC actions to this extend, simply because of the very large amount of different people from different factions involved in approving a raid. There's a lot of different eyes that have to go over the files and IC reasoning created before it ever gets to that point, in many cases this already includes staff early on to make sure information has actually been acquired ICly in a valid way. 
 

On 8/26/2023 at 2:30 AM, LisaWinter said:

For example, if I rply went to sleep in my apartment (went to work irl) and my apartment gets raided, its just awkward that i don't wake up until i get home and apparently slept thru it.

Yes, this is sad but quite literally not possible to be solved. Warrants get created over the span of weeks, sometimes months in many cases and they get executed as soon as possible once they are actually approved, but this depends on availability on LEOs side as well, as again, there are a LOT of people involved. You need investigative units, you need tactical units, you need high level administrative staff for the actual execution. If you add another variable, i.e. the affected player having to be online, good luck ever getting that to happen. There's obviously a benefit for the LEO side too, I don't think anyone involved intentionally "offline raids" another player since it adds an additional hassle anyway. The player needs to be arrested or interrogated as part of the aftermath anyway.

On 9/12/2023 at 3:12 AM, Ritchie Stones said:

Raiding one appartment, that has something to do with the curent rp, 100%yes. But “all houses “? No, if you would be caught in a car with at least 3 heavy’s then you could be suspected of a terroristic organisation, that would be of great concern.  But i think all apartments is just to much.

Honestly, this is really IC but I will say that if your property gets raided, there is 100% a current connection and cause for each specific property. "Blanket" raids on all your properties because  you've been a naughty boy are not a thing.

22 hours ago, ash816 said:

So once a warehouse location becomes known IC, that location is essentially completely burnt. We have had many instances of being followed from a "suspected gun shipment" where we lose the cops, but they stalk out these locations gathering "intel" instead.

 Does that not make sense? If there are known locations where you are known to stash things, why would investigative units not go to those locations and scout them out, given actual activity and cause? No one will just sit at any of these locations for hours without any IC cause. You might believe this to be the case and I understand why, but that doesn't happen. Mostly because it's boring as fuck and no one wants to do that.

22 hours ago, ash816 said:

Buying a warehouse and making it a faction property is hard, considering a lot of these assets are brought up, probably owned and unused, leaving not many rp sound or logical places for us to own a warehouse. Having previously asked the cartel players for assistance in obtaining different warehouses and being told a flat NO, leaves obtaining other warehouses tricky. Otherwise this seems like it would be the most reasonable way to get around it if we could sell or trade the turf controlled warehouses and there were more options for these locations.

I can't speak to much on this since I was never involved with faction services or anything of the like, but I feel like there should be an easier way to obtain different warehouses and change locations, given that things get comped all the time. I agree with you there. The idea that you're "stuck" with a warehouse that's been comped and raided and is documented in gang files etc. is a bit silly to me, because yeah, you're essentially just fucked from there on out. So I agree with you there. 

22 hours ago, ash816 said:

Reports denied from on scene + involved admins dismissing reports immediately with the explanation of "its IC"

Because it IS IC. I'm sorry! If there are concerns about the IC legimitacy of things that lead to a warrant being issued, those need to be brought up to LFM or similar. A regular staff member isn't able to investigate such claims because of how deep they go, they simply don't have access to any of the required information and factions releasing these documentations to any random staff member is not feasible.

22 hours ago, ash816 said:

 Subjected to witch hunts because the cops/admins don't find what they expect to

I really don't know what admins have to do with this, but okay.
If cops know there is something they COULD find and don't find it, doesn't it make sense for them to keep pushing? I dunno about the term witch hunt, but all of that is always based on IC actions of the past, looping back on what I touched on earlier, there is a lot that goes into every single interaction you, as a criminal, have with any investigatory unit. Nothing is just random or because of hatred or OOC or IC distaste. Everything gets checked over five times by ten different people and, despite that apparently being a common point of view, LEO factions are NOT self regulating in this aspect. A lot of things require approval from JB etc etc.

22 hours ago, ash816 said:

 Ruleplayed (rammed by cops off of bikes or hit to be prevented getting onto a bike / blocked off in the city whilst I'm doing 160 to stall me then held at gunpoint to abuse they can subject me to fear rp or circled for 20mins until they can find a reason to disturb /search us)

I fail to see how this is ruleplay, but if you think it is, why wasn't it reported? A regular forum report or taken to LFM. Complaining does nothing.

22 hours ago, ash816 said:

 Mocked ic and ooc for submitting IA reports even though they get upheld 75% of the time

If you are mocked for it IC, that's IC, I don't see your point. As ex-IA Command, I can assure you that NO ONE likes Internal Affairs, so that's a given. There's arguments to be made about how much sense it makes for a hard, cop killing criminal to constantly make IA reports, which is probably why any OOC mockery takes place, although I don't think it should and if there is, such should be reported to, again Internal Affairs, LFM or just staff, considering that could potentially be a rulebreak, OOC behavior and the likes.

22 hours ago, ash816 said:

Noticed shadow changes to drug tables to make them blow up more often when unwatered

Not sure what this has to do with anything. Such changes are not influenced by any of the legal factions on the server. It's a development thing that I don't think we have much, if any influence on.

22 hours ago, ash816 said:

Our attempts at legal endeavours wont be supported by people in legal factions due to affiliation, even if this affiliation is not direct

Again, how does this not make sense? I don't know what specific legal endeavors you are referring to, but if there is clear affiliation, then how can you be expecting for a literal gang member to be accepted into a legal faction, or supported by those? What IC justification could those factions reasonably have to actually allow that? There's still options you have. Legal fronts are a thing that have been done before, and I don't think there's much stopping you from doing those things again if you're smart about it.

22 hours ago, ash816 said:

So only option is to use a rented car (from a player because the scrapyard vehicles flag up fishy) , go to a rented property in different clothes when doing anything, which realistically someone from a cop faction can just sit and watch me do 24/7 at some point anyway, from 400meters away with a sniper scope. This is how it has been for many years and every avenue available to a criminal is well known and hashed out by the legal factions. This to me is the worst part of it all because it is very hard to innovate when nothing new has been added.

I really don't want to hit you with "skill issue" but I mean... There's players and factions that do all those things WITHOUT having their properties raided, without being constantly targeted by LEOs. You or your faction being targeted is a DIRECT result of your IC mistakes and nothing else. If you let it come to be point where you're being surveilled and watched, that is your own fault, I'm sorry to say it like that. There's things to prevent that, precautions to take and things you can do even when you're already past that point. No LEO faction cares enough or has the resources to watch any specific faction or player without giving them a break and room to breathe, not even necessarily intentionally but that's just the nature of it.

22 hours ago, ash816 said:

A good change for me would be "scrapyard" type apartments where you can rent them for a week/month for 50k or something, you turn up at tinsel or any of the apartment complexes and rent a room in cash for stashing, then this is not affected by how difficult it is to get a house on the server and you have an (albeit expensive) option to hide something not in your name. This is then not at least tied to you and wouldn't be a part of a raid where all your registered properties are attacked. Perhaps make the space limited so you cant wedge 50 guns in there, but at least distribute some assets.
Fix scrapyard cars to 1) not be the worst cars on the server and 2) not flag as "unregistered" or whatever they currently do, immediately arousing suspicion. 
Add some more criminal only warehouses but limit the amount of warehouses a faction can have, they would still be subject to the same rules ie make rp sence to own etc, but allow some freedom for gangs to make more sensible choices, which seems to be every cop main opinion in this thread.
Some element of these locations being treated like labs, areas of "high criminal activity" but once raided the IC knowledge of affiliation becomes void, given the limited options we have as criminals. Maybe a combination so if a warehouse is unused by a faction for 3 months it loses its "known affiliation"

Hey, I actually agree with all of these suggestions. I think they are good and probably deserve their own thread.

 

But let's be real, it's not impossible to not get raided even without any of these suggestions implemented. There's some great ideas people have had in the past to make it hard for LEOs to raid properties, for example the self storage idea that was around for a little while. Sadly it never took off because of some IC mistakes the people in charge made, but those could've easily been avoided and the whole thing would've been a fantastic opportunity for criminals to stash things. Maybe someone will pick up that idea in the future again, or a similar one. 

[AnakinB]

just dont give them evidence lol

[checkky]

Let the man voice his opinion without getting an e-go from someone. It's what these forum suggestions are made for, right? 

Edited November 11, 2023 by checkky

[Quietthecutie]

Still quite new to the criminal side of the server. but from my experience, theres always large warning signs that you are about to get raided, as many people have already said here, if you are concerned about a raid, spread your loot around more effectively. yeah, it sometimes blows when large chunks of your gear is essentially deleted due to a raid, but isnt that rply accurate to how an illegal organisation would work? cant let known prominent gang members stash gear infinitely...

[idgafashlee]

Should raids go away entirely? Maybe not. Should raids be reworked with defined rules so there's a conducive system that is as fair as possible to all parties involved? Absolutely. The boundaries of raiding need to be re-evaluated by staff and clearly defined for everyone involved. Offline raiding is a joke, this is an RP server, not Rust. 

Edited November 11, 2023 by idgafashlee

[Apex]

1 hour ago, idgafashlee said:

Offline raiding is a joke, this is an RP server, not Rust. 

I understand your frustration and I totally agree. As a crim my biggest nightmare would be an offline raid and as an LEO the most boring thing to do is to raid someone whilst they're offline. But sadly it's not in our hands and that's mainly due to timezone issues. Especially with the UG raids. 

Raiding a property requires an amount of units as well as metro swat operatives and detectives online. And that only happens around EU midnight or morning. Sadly there isn't any other way around this system because we are not gonna wake people up at 4 am to raid a property on ecrp.

 

[CelesNebula]

I noticed a rise in raids too and talked to many crims who wanna take a break from the server, since its absolute no fun anymore. I fully agree with the statement that crims are decreasing and all those raids demotivate players heavily to continue. Not only raids though, I noticed people getting extensivly pulled over by police and I dont mean 1-2 times in a day. I am talking about 15 times in 2 hours (without given any reasons like speeding or bad driving). Recent crime rp has become demotivating to a lot of players. I think another reason for the raids to be looked upon so badly, is that there is absolute no rp for the crime side. Most likely police is having tons of rp for the raid, but for crims its an out of nowhere situation with even while the raid is happening, bare to minimum rp. 

[Quietthecutie]

6 hours ago, CelesNebula said:

I noticed a rise in raids too and talked to many crims who wanna take a break from the server, since its absolute no fun anymore. I fully agree with the statement that crims are decreasing and all those raids demotivate players heavily to continue. Not only raids though, I noticed people getting extensivly pulled over by police and I dont mean 1-2 times in a day. I am talking about 15 times in 2 hours (without given any reasons like speeding or bad driving). Recent crime rp has become demotivating to a lot of players. I think another reason for the raids to be looked upon so badly, is that there is absolute no rp for the crime side. Most likely police is having tons of rp for the raid, but for crims its an out of nowhere situation with even while the raid is happening, bare to minimum rp. 

agreed. in a recent raid all we could do is sit on a hill and watch. there's very little you can do when out of the blue, 2 Tarvs, a heli and a sniper team show up. it also didnt help that this occurred when our faction only had 2 people online.

Rply, i know, a raid would come from out of nowhere with overwhelming force. but this is also a videogame. and logging back in to find your property ransacked and items that you probably spent quite alot of time and effort in getting just gone, with no chance of defending them, its not fun at all. particularly when the LEOs risk nothing doing this.

perhaps a rule that if a raid is taking place on a factions HQ, that faction must have a certain amount of people online to make defending viable? this would at least mean that the faction being raided gets RP ops during the raid and can have some fun. this would be similar to the mechanic where criminals are not able to hit banks or stores without a certain amount of LEOs in the city. 

[CelesNebula]

40 minutes ago, Quietthecutie said:

agreed. in a recent raid all we could do is sit on a hill and watch. there's very little you can do when out of the blue, 2 Tarvs, a heli and a sniper team show up. it also didnt help that this occurred when our faction only had 2 people online.

Rply, i know, a raid would come from out of nowhere with overwhelming force. but this is also a videogame. and logging back in to find your property ransacked and items that you probably spent quite alot of time and effort in getting just gone, with no chance of defending them, its not fun at all. particularly when the LEOs risk nothing doing this.

perhaps a rule that if a raid is taking place on a factions HQ, that faction must have a certain amount of people online to make defending viable? this would at least mean that the faction being raided gets RP ops during the raid and can have some fun. this would be similar to the mechanic where criminals are not able to hit banks or stores without a certain amount of LEOs in the city. 

BIG +1 a minimum requirement like a certain amount of numbers having to be online might be a very good start ;D And maybe more rp with the raided party to make them not feel helpless

[Marksy]

On 11/10/2023 at 10:22 PM, DoTo said:

If you are mocked for it IC, that's IC, I don't see your point. As ex-IA Command, I can assure you that NO ONE likes Internal Affairs, so that's a given. There's arguments to be made about how much sense it makes for a hard, cop killing criminal to constantly make IA reports, which is probably why any OOC mockery takes place, although I don't think it should and if there is, such should be reported to, again Internal Affairs, LFM or just staff, considering that could potentially be a rulebreak, OOC behavior and the likes.

 

I will partially agree with you on this, sure it doesn't make sense for hardened criminals to make IA reports, unfortunately though it's the only way LEO's can be held accountable on both and IC and OOC level for wrongdoings towards criminals. 

Sure you could kill them but it achieves nothing really. 

[DoTo]

5 hours ago, Marksy said:

I will partially agree with you on this, sure it doesn't make sense for hardened criminals to make IA reports, unfortunately though it's the only way LEO's can be held accountable on both and IC and OOC level for wrongdoings towards criminals. 

Sure you could kill them but it achieves nothing really. 

Oh, absolutely. Especially regarding OOC IA reports, there is not really an issue with them and it doesn't matter who they come from. 
ICly, sure, cops need to be held accountable but it's really only the petty reports that are the issue there. It's absolutely nonsensical and definitely smells weird and more OOCly motivated than anything else when a hardened criminal who shoots and murders on a regular basis creates an IA report because an LEO was a little mean or disrespectful to them.

When it comes to actual misconduct, sure. 

[Oli]

Crims do respect how much time you've spent gathering all your info, the processes you go through, all the factions that take part to approve such a raid and all that lovely stuff you've mentioned. But do you respect how much time these crims spent, all the risks they go through whether that be during cooking the drugs, chopping cars, selling either of those, having an order, the possibility of it being comped by either PD or a rival faction, and all that? Cuz in all honesty, it doesnt seem like you do, at all.

In previous suggestions regarding anything that goes towards PD vs crims, LEOs claim that crims can make millions grinding, assuming its easy for some reason, while they making millions sitting in a car doing nothing, caring for nothing and fearing nothing, cuz whatever happens, it doesnt affect your salary one bit. Just sitting there waiting for RP opps to show up and conduct them accordingly, which is appreciated of course. But whether these RP opps happen or not, you're still making your money, you're not taking any Ls.

Crims suggesting similar suggestions like this isnt because they have a win mentality. Keeping assets isnt a W, keeping assets is not taking another L. One of so many Ls that crims take all day long whether that be by RPing with other crims or with cops.

Does house raids make sense? Of course! No one is trying to deny this. But does it help the server in any way? Yay man, you got your detective RP and ruined someone else's 1 year grind! It doesnt. I personally was never raided before, so this is not coming from an OOC hatred due to IC consequences. But I do understand how demotivating it would be to any crim who's already in the losing side of the game by nature, to just get all his efforts wiped.

LEOs trying to mention how many RP opps house raids can bring to the server is crazy. You think someone who just lost days, weeks and months of grinding would be sat there during the house raid plotting how he's gonna avenge this? He's not. He's gonna be writing up his good bye letter to his friends that still play the server.

As previously said, crims are on the losing side by nature, they chose to do so, I dont see why LEOs insist on pushing more Ls towards criminals when they're already punished in all aspects of the server so claiming that crims have a win mentality is crazy. Crims with a win mentality (or generally tired of taking Ls) always stop playing their crim character and start maining PD/SD characters that would grant them an L-free time on the server.

TL;DR: its a game, if X makes people want to quit the server, then stop doing X. Whether it makes sense or not doesnt matter. LEOs say its boring, crims hate it, so why keep it :'D No one is quitting the game if you completely remove house raids as the people who're responsible on gathering the intel and that already have other stuff to fill their time with. But that's my 100% biased, win-mentality, PVP driven, dirty criminal opinion.

However, from previous experiences, we all know this aint gonna happen, IC issue. Yap yap yap.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Oli

[Quietthecutie]

1 hour ago, Oli said:

Crims do respect how much time you've spent gathering all your info, the processes you go through, all the factions that take part to approve such a raid and all that lovely stuff you've mentioned. But do you respect how much time these crims spent, all the risks they go through whether that be during cooking the drugs, chopping cars, selling either of those, having an order, the possibility of it being comped by either PD or a rival faction, and all that? Cuz in all honesty, it doesnt seem like you do, at all.

In previous suggestions regarding anything that goes towards PD vs crims, LEOs claim that crims can make millions grinding, assuming its easy for some reason, while they making millions sitting in a car doing nothing, caring for nothing and fearing nothing, cuz whatever happens, it doesnt affect your salary one bit. Just sitting there waiting for RP opps to show up and conduct them accordingly, which is appreciated of course. But whether these RP opps happen or not, you're still making your money, you're not taking any Ls.

Crims suggesting similar suggestions like this isnt because they have a win mentality. Keeping assets isnt a W, keeping assets is not taking another L. One of so many Ls that crims take all day long whether that be by RPing with other crims or with cops.

Does house raids make sense? Of course! No one is trying to deny this. But does it help the server in any way? Yay man, you got your detective RP and ruined someone else's 1 year grind! It doesnt. I personally was never raided before, so this is not coming from an OOC hatred due to IC consequences. But I do understand how demotivating it would be to any crim who's already in the losing side of the game by nature, to just get all his efforts wiped.

LEOs trying to mention how many RP opps house raids can bring to the server is crazy. You think someone who just lost days, weeks and months of grinding would be sat there during the house raid plotting how he's gonna avenge this? He's not. He's gonna be writing up his good bye letter to his friends that still play the server.

As previously said, crims are on the losing side by nature, they chose to do so, I dont see why LEOs insist on pushing more Ls towards criminals when they're already punished in all aspects of the server so claiming that crims have a win mentality is crazy. Crims with a win mentality (or generally tired of taking Ls) always stop playing their crim character and start maining PD/SD characters that would grant them an L-free time on the server.

TL;DR: its a game, if X makes people want to quit the server, then stop doing X. Whether it makes sense or not doesnt matter. LEOs say its boring, crims hate it, so why keep it :'D No one is quitting the game if you completely remove house raids as the people who're responsible on gathering the intel and that already have other stuff to fill their time with. But that's my 100% biased, win-mentality, PVP driven, dirty criminal opinion.

However, from previous experiences, we all know this aint gonna happen, IC issue. Yap yap yap.

An actually very interesting and well written read.

[HobGoblin]

LEOs already need solid evidence before a raid is approved. 
 

It is always brought up that player quit the server over raids however this does not happen as much as people are making out. 
 

Over the past few months multiple high tier criminals have been raided during a large scale operation. While people were not happy in the first few days / weeks the same people raided still continue to play. 
 

There are multiple solutions to avoid raids and to minimise the loss if you do get raided. 

[Clank]

2 hours ago, Oli said:

Crims do respect how much time you've spent gathering all your info, the processes you go through, all the factions that take part to approve such a raid and all that lovely stuff you've mentioned. But do you respect how much time these crims spent, all the risks they go through whether that be during cooking the drugs, chopping cars, selling either of those, having an order, the possibility of it being comped by either PD or a rival faction, and all that? Cuz in all honesty, it doesnt seem like you do, at all.

In previous suggestions regarding anything that goes towards PD vs crims, LEOs claim that crims can make millions grinding, assuming its easy for some reason, while they making millions sitting in a car doing nothing, caring for nothing and fearing nothing, cuz whatever happens, it doesnt affect your salary one bit. Just sitting there waiting for RP opps to show up and conduct them accordingly, which is appreciated of course. But whether these RP opps happen or not, you're still making your money, you're not taking any Ls.

Crims suggesting similar suggestions like this isnt because they have a win mentality. Keeping assets isnt a W, keeping assets is not taking another L. One of so many Ls that crims take all day long whether that be by RPing with other crims or with cops.

Does house raids make sense? Of course! No one is trying to deny this. But does it help the server in any way? Yay man, you got your detective RP and ruined someone else's 1 year grind! It doesnt. I personally was never raided before, so this is not coming from an OOC hatred due to IC consequences. But I do understand how demotivating it would be to any crim who's already in the losing side of the game by nature, to just get all his efforts wiped.

LEOs trying to mention how many RP opps house raids can bring to the server is crazy. You think someone who just lost days, weeks and months of grinding would be sat there during the house raid plotting how he's gonna avenge this? He's not. He's gonna be writing up his good bye letter to his friends that still play the server.

As previously said, crims are on the losing side by nature, they chose to do so, I dont see why LEOs insist on pushing more Ls towards criminals when they're already punished in all aspects of the server so claiming that crims have a win mentality is crazy. Crims with a win mentality (or generally tired of taking Ls) always stop playing their crim character and start maining PD/SD characters that would grant them an L-free time on the server.

TL;DR: its a game, if X makes people want to quit the server, then stop doing X. Whether it makes sense or not doesnt matter. LEOs say its boring, crims hate it, so why keep it :'D No one is quitting the game if you completely remove house raids as the people who're responsible on gathering the intel and that already have other stuff to fill their time with. But that's my 100% biased, win-mentality, PVP driven, dirty criminal opinion.

However, from previous experiences, we all know this aint gonna happen, IC issue. Yap yap yap.

 

Why are people playing an RP server to "grind" for assets. Should the main goal of a roleplay server not be to craft storylines or fun interactions? This is an RP server not an MMORPG where you need to min-max everything. If you're spending days, weeks and months grinding that is days, weeks and months spent on minimal player interaction with minimal storycrafting. The server is not about taking Ws or taking Ls. 

 

 

[AtlasOLimbo]

9 minutes ago, Clank said:

 

Why are people playing an RP server to "grind" for assets. Should the main goal of a roleplay server not be to craft storylines or fun interactions? This is an RP server not an MMORPG where you need to min-max everything. If you're spending days, weeks and months grinding that is days, weeks and months spent on minimal player interaction with minimal storycrafting. The server is not about taking Ws or taking Ls. 

 

 

Eclipse is an asset-focused server of its own making/design. Hell, you want an apartment for your character? That's averaging 750k now.

[Oli]

2 minutes ago, Clank said:

 

Why are people playing an RP server to "grind" for assets. Should the main goal of a roleplay server not be to craft storylines or fun interactions? This is an RP server not an MMORPG where you need to min-max everything. If you're spending days, weeks and months grinding that is days, weeks and months spent on minimal player interaction with minimal storycrafting. The server is not about taking Ws or taking Ls. 

 

 

Bro we get it, you only care the RP and you dont have a win-mentality.

We know you would do your PD job even if you dont get paid cuz you love it and you're not in the server to grind assets. We also know you didnt buy the meta walkstyle cuz it runs faster but because you're ICly relaxed, we get it. We also know you spawn meta vehicles because you love how they look not because they're bulletproof. You dont need to prove yourself anymore.

We also know that most stores were bought by LEOs because they're seeking more RP opps that can be done after they buy it, not because they're looking to grind more assets in an RP server.

Why do people still lie about not caring for assets?

[Clank]

1 minute ago, AtlasOLimbo said:

Eclipse is an asset-focused server of its own making/design. Hell, you want an apartment for your character? That's averaging 750k now.

Ive seen countless houses for sale around the map recently for 100-200k. 

[Clank]

Just now, Oli said:

Bro we get it, you only care the RP and you dont have a win-mentality.

We know you would do your PD job even if you dont get paid cuz you love it and you're not in the server to grind assets. We also know you didnt buy the meta walkstyle cuz it runs faster but because you're ICly relaxed, we get it. We also know you spawn meta vehicles because you love how they look not because they're bulletproof. You dont need to prove yourself anymore.

We also know that most stores were bought by LEOs because they're seeking more RP opps that can be done after they buy it, not because they're looking to grind more assets in an RP server.

Why do people still lie about not caring for assets?

My brother in christ if you're going to try to hit me with a "gotcha" moment at least attack my points with logic not with sarcastic responses. 

[Oli]

1 minute ago, Clank said:

My brother in christ if you're going to try to hit me with a "gotcha" moment at least attack my points with logic not with sarcastic responses. 

I'm not your brother in christ.