Increase Required Escalation for Raids or Remove them Completely

[idgafashlee]

14 hours ago, HobGoblin said:

Over the past few months multiple high tier criminals have been raided during a large scale operation. While people were not happy in the first few days / weeks the same people raided still continue to play. 

So people are unhappy and demotivated for days or even WEEKS, but it's simply not a big deal because they didn't fully "quit", which justifies keeping a game mechanic that bothers people?

[Astrx]

2 minutes ago, idgafashlee said:

So people are unhappy and demotivated for days or even WEEKS, but it's simply not a big deal because they didn't fully "quit", which justifies keeping a game mechanic that bothers people?

There's a multitude of different things that I hate with crims, things that crims do that bother me and piss me off, I don't sit here and make threads to remove them because I have an issue. I deal with it, I adapt, it is not hard. I'm not going to go into it but there is a lot of double standards with these threads and it turns into slander extremely quickly. TLDR; entire "mechanics" are not going to be removed just because it bothers you.

[idgafashlee]

2 minutes ago, Astrx said:

There's a multitude of different things that I hate with crims, things that crims do that bother me and piss me off, I don't sit here and make threads to remove them because I have an issue. I deal with it, I adapt, it is not hard. I'm not going to go into it but there is a lot of double standards with these threads and it turns into slander extremely quickly. TLDR; entire "mechanics" are not going to be removed just because it bothers you.

Oh baby, I don't think you're seeing the bigger picture here. In my initial post, I said I believe raids shouldn't be removed entirely. As someone with nearly equal hours on my criminal and legal character, I can understand the depth that goes into a raid. Crims being annoying and "pissing you off" is both none of my concern and not at all the topic at hand. A game mechanic, that allows law enforcement to simply bolt cut into someone's house and is upsetting MANY people (so don't come at me sideways saying something shouldn't be removed just because it bothers "me"), a game mechanic that is not available for criminals to use, should probably be reworked to find a happier medium. 
The TLDR here truly is that we're a roleplay community, we're supposed to be creating enjoyable (or at least hopefully kind and positive???) scenarios for the people we're interacting with (and if you use the argument that getting arrested isn't enjoyable or dealing with criminals isn't enjoyable I will kick, scream, and cry out of frustration because you're just not getting the point obviously). If an ALLOWED game mechanic is producing a negative outcome for someone EVERY TIME, don't you think it should be looked into? Or are we all just cool with the mentality "You might be upset for a couple of weeks but oh well, you'll come back"?

[Demonmit1]

47 minutes ago, Melody Frey said:

My only issue is offline raiding which isn't realistic most of the time. Most of the times I was raided, my character was "asleep" inside of the place that was raided.

 

I do not want LEOs to have to wait for the person to be online, BUT I do want an admin to ping me for RP OPs and just hit me with a "You would get a notification on your phone that your home is being broken into!" similar to how we get them if someone is boltcutting into things. I feel like that would at least help the situation and would require next to no effort to do.

agree completely. my post about getting notified you're getting raided wasnt like, hey, we're raiding you in a week, now's your chance to metagame and clear the whole place out, its more like, hey, we're raiding you in 15 minutes, here's your chance to be online to be able to be a part of the RP if you want to.

[checkky]

1 hour ago, Astrx said:

There's a multitude of different things that I hate with crims

There's not much of us left, so be careful if wanna play the "picky" card.

1 hour ago, Astrx said:

I don't sit here and make threads to remove them because I have an issue. I deal with it, I adapt, it is not hard.

If you somehow cannot tell there clearly there needs to be change, as the server owner wouldn't be having community meetings of what needs to be changed in the server and community. We have been adapting for long enough, and clearly there needs to be change we ALL can adapt too and not just the crims.

1 hour ago, Astrx said:

I'm not going to go into it but there is a lot of double standards with these threads and it turns into slander extremely quickly.

How else do you expect the community to voice their real opinions? The server is at a fight or flight era at the moment, if the real and raw opinions aren't voiced, the community could die out by next year.

Edited November 15, 2023 by checkky

[Victor Einhart]

RP is done to determine what places are worth raiding. The simple fact is we don't go door-to-door. We have to figure out somehow which places to go.

Then that information is forwarded to JB. They look it over and decide if that information is worth acting on.

So not only are you insulting the work of field officers, you're insulting the work and judgement of JB. I hope this wasn't done lightly.

What is it you want, exactly?

Tell me the exact steps you think should be taken. Not that it needs to be "fixed" or "reworked" - I want to hear your solution. In detail.

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Victor Einhart

[Quietthecutie]

9 hours ago, Demonmit1 said:

Obviously, its a very difficult situation. Police have spent hours RPing and working to get evidence, information, warrants, and plan the raids. forcing them to hold off till the group they are wanting to raid is online would be unreasonable, and just removing the ability to raid is outright a joke.


 

I do not think this to be unreasonable.

Stores and banks are not able to be robbed by criminals if there are not enough LEOs online to investigate/stop them. I dont think its unthinkable to consider that same thing to be a mechanic for raids. Bearing in mind, in a raid, someones property that they worked for is actually on the line, wheras for stores and banks its just a mechanic to stop crims from farming cash in gremlin hours. I would actually consider a min person requirement to be a more pressing concern for raids. It also means that actual god given roleplay will take place insted of just waking up to an fdo on your door and all your stuff gone..

[Oli]

4 hours ago, Astrx said:

There's a multitude of different things that I hate with crims, things that crims do that bother me and piss me off, I don't sit here and make threads to remove them because I have an issue. I deal with it, I adapt, it is not hard. I'm not going to go into it but there is a lot of double standards with these threads and it turns into slander extremely quickly. TLDR; entire "mechanics" are not going to be removed just because it bothers you.

I'm sorry to hear you get bothered and pissed off by crims lil bro.

Please name me one thing that crims do that would affect your character's assets.

We're not here saying it needs to be removed for the sole reason that it bothers us because to be honest, every single interaction with PD bothers us, pisses us off and ends up with hours in an OOC punishment (IC jail).

1 hour ago, Victor Einhart said:

 So not only are you insulting the work of field officers, you're insulting the work and judgement of JB. I hope this wasn't done lightly.

I see nothing wrong with commenting on someone's "work and judgement" as LEOs do it all the time while mocking crim players' RP.

You have to keep in mind that all your holy JB, your work of field officers and all crims are the same. They're players, roleplaying a character ingame.

[Cyrus Raven]

2 hours ago, Victor Einhart said:

RP is done to determine what places are worth raiding. The simple fact is we don't go door-to-door. We have to figure out somehow which places to go.

Then that information is forwarded to JB. They look it over and decide if that information is worth acting on.

So not only are you insulting the work of field officers, you're insulting the work and judgement of JB. I hope this wasn't done lightly.

What is it you want, exactly?

Tell me the exact steps you think should be taken. Not that it needs to be "fixed" or "reworked" - I want to hear your solution. In detail.

 

From the combined suggestions I've seen, it would be a good start to have a system in place where a gang gets informed about the raid.

A gang HQ/Property is a place which realistically would have gang members present and defending it and is suppose to be a bigger challenge to Law Enforcement then raids to individual players. The specifics are hard to figure out as it will probably need to be tested or further discussed to fine tune it. It could be through a mass gang message for RP ops on a certain day between a period of two hours at peak times. They wouldn't be informed what the RP Ops are, it could be some Cartel related RP, raid or any other type of RP Ops like a server event such as the plane crash event.

For individual raids, I understand where people are coming from, but I don't see it being viable to have to search for and communicate OOC'ly with a player to alert them of the raid. Limiting raids to peak hours could be an improvement, but I wouldn't personally go as far as to suggest individual players be contacted OOC'ly for this.

These are solutions directly related to raids, but in my view, the biggest changes which will trickle down to how players view raids is the criminal economy and how they earn and spend money. It shouldn't take multiple hours for a criminal player to grind for a gun and some body-armor. You can't make it to easy either, but I think encouraging more conflict RP (increased shoot outs and less ''gear fear'') would be a good step in changing the prevalent mentality at the moment.

Just give it a try, there is so much opportunity to try stuff out with relative ease, I just don't understand why we never try new stuff without it taking months or years to get done. Change the import prices for guns. Change the sell prices for drugs. Change the payout from banks. Hell, even change some rules like the DM one to allow for more flexible scenarios. Change something. Do it next week for a total of one week, see how this affects the server, keep the positive, revert the negative. More importantly, communicate with players who've been dedicated towards criminal RP about these things.

[Apex]

5 hours ago, checkky said:

There's not much of us left, so be careful if wanna play the "picky" card.

You keep acting like crims are some endangered species bro. Just FYI more than half the crims are gone because they get banned by other crims that keep referring to forums once they lose a situation. And I'm talking on a ratio of 10 crims that get banned, 7 of them get banned by other crims and out of the 7 at least 3 are mass reported until something sticks. 

Stop blaming LEOs for the report culture crim has which you and I and every other crim was a victim of at some point.

[Quietthecutie]

14 hours ago, Homast said:

If you want Raids to only be conducted while the player is online.... What exactly is that changing? The fact that you can then instead get your 30 person crew together to storm a full Police Blockade comprising of the very thing you believe makes LEOs unbalanced to begin with?


 

On a personal level, can you imagine how fun it would be for everyone involved if we actually did that? like imagine that LEOs showed up in Tarvs, Helis, sniper teams etc and actually had a fight on their hands that they could lose? like just imagine the roadblocks, the standoffs, the fun that could be had if the MO for raids was to make them as RP intensive and fun for all factions as possible instead of both sides being involved in this "us vs you win at all costs" mentality.

We have added all these cool weapons, vehicles and other items to the game but we don't really take full advantage of them for Ops yet. I think this would be so much more fun and engaging for both sides. as previous stated many LEOs see raids as the pinnacle of their RP experience, why not make it worth that title instead of it basically just being a training exersise.

[PopTarts]

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