Remove Body Camera

[sumond]

Make the cops actually interview people and try to determine what exactly happened by talking to people instead of pulling up a video to find out what happened. It's unfun, and if you disagree, you're litterally anti roleplay. It does nothing but allow the police to avoid having to investigate and instead just watch a video to learn what happened.

 

[Donovan]

Why would I interview someone to determine what happened infront of an officer? How can bodycams ever be something anti roleplay if police irl are forced to wear them whether they want to or not, and since definition of roleplay is simulating real life I am struggling to understand as to where is a problem here.. On the other hand, if you meant civilians/crims having bodycams I am completely behind the idea of them not having a bodycam, so far I haven't seen a single person irl that wasn't a part of police/emergency services that had a bodycam. If civilians/non ems members wish to record something I would suggest using /record or dashcam footage to provide that instead of " bodycam " 

[Thang]

Having roleplayed as a cop on this server for over two years, I've had my fair share of experiences with the current system in place and wanted to share some observations and suggestions. While I understand the intent behind using bodycams, there are some aspects we might want to reconsider to enhance the roleplay experience for everyone involved.

Bodycams, in their current state, seem a bit overpowered. Police officers can essentially rewind and review any part of their interactions, gathering whatever evidence they might need against a suspect. This significantly reduces the challenge and engagement of police investigations, making it a mere playback session rather than a dynamic roleplaying experience.

The presence of bodycams tends to turn our in-game police officers into "robocops." Given the potential for any misstep to be captured and used against them, officers are more inclined to strictly follow protocols to the letter. While adherence to protocols is essential in reality, in the context of a roleplaying server, this can make interactions with the police feel less organic and more robotic.

As a potential solution, we could consider replacing bodycams with dashcams. Dashcams would only capture events happening within the field of view of a police vehicle, making investigations more balanced. Officers would still have some video evidence but not a full record of every interaction, thereby preserving some element of unpredictability and challenge.

I've noticed an increasing trend of criminals using bodycams to their advantage. While this could be seen as a smart play, it does detract from the immersion when these players neither admit to having a bodycam upon being searched nor announce their use of one with commands like /me or /do. If we're considering the removal or limitation of bodycams for the police, it might be worth discussing their use among civilians as well.

In summary, while bodycams can undoubtedly add to the realism aspect, it's essential to strike a balance to ensure that the roleplay remains engaging, unpredictable, and fun for everyone. I believe reassessing the use of bodycams could be a step in the right direction.

[Harveyyy]

Why would I interrogate someone that committed a crime when I can just review my bodycam footage? It's there for a reason. Like it or not, I don't think it makes RP sense to not use it as evidence - it could also fall under ooc corruption. If the bodycam footage provides sufficient evidence of the crime committed, then the charge can be placed, but that's an IC matter. Also, this is not FiveM.

[Cyrus Raven]

-1 Reviewing footage is investigation, besides if the crime is of a complex nature then reviewing body-cam doesn't necessarily mean an open and shut case, if you find yourself being caught several times because someone has reviewed footage, chances are that you're not committing crimes in the most intelligent way possible, which is fine, but understandably comes with an easier to prove case, that's just the way the cookie crumbles. I can not imagine the unbearable work load LEOs would have if they had to collect statements for something easily proven by rewinding some footage, whether it be actually checking the footage or through /do /ldo investigative RP.

 

I would like to see a body-cam item that gives others some sort of warning that a player has a body-cam equipped.  Although this can already be done through /do RP, I feel like a visible item or some other method of announcing to others around you that you have one on would be a cool feature.

[Requiem]

All police use body cameras in the real world. As was already mentioned, it doesn't make sense to not use them. As far as the RP is concerned, investigation tactics in game are limited for police due to script limitations. There are only so many things that can be found in game, and its easy due to those limitations for people to just lie/withhold the truth on something if questioned. Body camera footage is normally just used to remind officers of something they may have seen or review details in a situation they may have missed. It is rarely ever the condemning factor involved in someone's arrest, but just used as a tool to spark further investigation or provide probable cause to investigate further. 

[sumond]

Cops are doing it IRL is not an excuse because all body cams do is allow police to avoid having to investigate and interact with anyone other than asking if someone has a body cam. In all of my interactions with the police, I have always said, "I don't have a bodycam." After that, they have said they can't do anything and have simply left without asking any questions or conducting any interviews.

[XxTheIrishGuyxX]

-1. As mentioned, investigations on the server are limited due to a couple different reasons. Statements go nowhere as people either lie, refuse to talk, or unintentionally provide incorrect information. Just like in real life you need evidence to arrest someone, he said she said will get you nowhere. 

If you compare this to real life crime, in todays day and age 90% (or a majority) of crime will be recorded by something. If you commit a crime IRL it will probably be recorded by something. 

I disagree with Thang's statement but I will keep this on topic. 

[Requiem]

19 hours ago, sumond said:

Cops are doing it IRL is not an excuse because all body cams do is allow police to avoid having to investigate and interact with anyone other than asking if someone has a body cam. In all of my interactions with the police, I have always said, "I don't have a bodycam." After that, they have said they can't do anything and have simply left without asking any questions or conducting any interviews.

If you have no evidence or proof of what occurred, then what are you expecting the police to do in that instance? Yes, they can talk to you or others and ask questions or interview, but how would police know if you are lying or telling the truth? What if you are angry at someone who you had a disagreement with earlier that day and you say they attacked someone when they really didn't just to get them in trouble with the police. 80% of the server would be in DOC constantly if the police just took everyone's word as proof of a crime. 

This is coupled with the idea that ECRP doesn't work like the real world. Police have to have 100% undeniable evidence of a crime before arresting someone since they go straight to jail/prison and serve their time. There is no bail or court process prior to being convicted of a crime. Police have to act as judge jury and executioner in all instances, so they have to have proof of something before acting on it. 

[TheCactus]

On 8/22/2023 at 7:48 AM, sumond said:

Make the cops actually interview people and try to determine what exactly happened by talking to people instead of pulling up a video to find out what happened. It's unfun, and if you disagree, you're litterally anti roleplay. It does nothing but allow the police to avoid having to investigate and instead just watch a video to learn what happened.

 

The way you wrote this makes me feel like you are crying about something, even tho you may be voicing a real issue. Something that you dont like happened and you ended up here with a biased complaint and subjective opinions. If you disagree with something it doesnt automatically become "unfun" and "anti roleplay".

If a cop asks someone what happened, they will get mixed answers that are useless from a legal point of view on this server. You can't do much with someone's statement, even if you have 10 people saying the same thing.

What you really want to do is make it so witness statements matter because right now they cannot be used as evidence. That's why a cop isn't going to bother if there is no footage of someone committing a crime. That's the solution to your problem; you are not going to solve it by having bodycameras removed. Logic

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by TheCactus

[Bala]

I think personally, if I wanted to stand in a group full of screaming people, all trying to get their point across at once and get the other side in trouble without any proof to then finally make a decision and then have to defend that decision again down the road because someone else is unhappy with the outcome, i'd be a staff member.

Easiest and cleanliest way to do it is to some how witness a crime or have the script tell you that it took place.

I'm sure there are cops that would love to delve into more investigative questioning if it lead to an arrest but we play on a "hurry up and jail me." server. Nothing wrong with that but if we've got fast food criminals, we need fast food cops too.

[SquirtleSquad]

23 hours ago, sumond said:

Cops are doing it IRL is not an excuse because all body cams do is allow police to avoid having to investigate and interact with anyone other than asking if someone has a body cam. In all of my interactions with the police, I have always said, "I don't have a bodycam." After that, they have said they can't do anything and have simply left without asking any questions or conducting any interviews.

So here's the thing. We RP as cops, and I am willing to bet the vast majority are NOT real life cops, lawyers, or other members who work with real world law. The role that ECRP's PD/SD plays is vastly different from real world. As Requiem pointed out, LEO are judge, jury and executioner. Meaning, you are going to prison without trial or bail. You are serving your time, and you can appeal it after your time is served. You may win the court battle, which can take days, weeks or months, or you can lose it. However, time moves on.

Should it be removed from Civ's? Fuck no. He said, she said statements are never worth the time that it takes to throughly investigate crimes, 90% of the time people don't have the patience or go into /b to say they need to log out in 5 minutes, and you can only RP so much reading into someone's body language, or facial structures. You can't get into the full investigative nature.

With LEO's using it, or setting it as "dash cam" would also just be bad, as then we'd run into an instance of arguing the FOV of the cameras angle. Also Police around the world wear body cameras. This should still be utilized. It just speeds up the super fast pace nature of the server. 

[AnakinB]

On 8/22/2023 at 1:48 AM, sumond said:

you're litterally anti roleplay.

Wait till u find out about the cops who talk the most shit and log out in the locker room because if they clocked off and were outside the precinct and not protected by 200 they'd be kidnapped 24/7

[PoliceMan101]

I think a lot of people are confused, i don’t think the original post is talking about PD but just random people.

 

IT IS UNREALISTIC FOR RANDOM CIVILIANS TO BE RUNNING AROUND WITH BODY CAMERAS. 
 

I think this is what the original post means. Let’s be honest, no one apart from law enforcement wears body cameras. So that means DCC, Mechanics, even EMS shouldn’t have body cameras on. Then PD could actually do interviews to try determine an outcome. Fuck it imma make a new suggestion on this point, everyone who’s read this go and read that aswell

[Cup]

Lots of people apart from law enforcement have dash cams and body cams. Also there are other options ICLY that Im not going to say here to record something then just a bodycam

[Quietthecutie]

To put a slight spin on this, I dont have an issue with bodycams being used to RPly review and investigate a situation, be this in civilian or LEO use.

I do however believe that what they glean from a bodycam should be relative to distance and what direction the Person is facing.

Bodycameras are not a third person camera, hovering 6 feet above our heads that we can rotate freely. they are fixed to the individuals chest most often, meaning that in order for footage to be used in an investigation. the person should be at least facing that direction and within a reasonable distance.

Bodycameras rarely have variable zoom, due to them needing to be robust. they are designed to capture footage at close range meaning that if a detail (such as say, a pistol on someones hip.)  is further than 20-30 feet away, the camera would struggle to pick that up in acceptable detail. this would go doubly if the person was on the move at the time of the recording, ever watched a found footage movie? all that camera shaking is there for a reason.

Then theres people using the third person camera to see over walls, around corners etcetera when their character clearly cannot. using clips like this in an investigation is in my opinion NRP. I understand there is no way to stop players using the third person camera to see things during gameplay, but the sections of bodycam footage that include this should be disregarded in any IC review. 

To summarise, bodycams are a useful way to investigate an incident and are almost required to speed up investigations and cut through general BS. but i feel like alot of players basically see them as if they have a camera crew following them, not as an actual bodycam.

[Jett_J]

Yea -1 lol

Bodycams are important for law enforcement RP and they protect civilians+criminals in some IC instances.

[AtlasOLimbo]

On 10/20/2023 at 12:12 PM, PoliceMan101 said:

I think a lot of people are confused, i don’t think the original post is talking about PD but just random people.

 

IT IS UNREALISTIC FOR RANDOM CIVILIANS TO BE RUNNING AROUND WITH BODY CAMERAS. 
 

I think this is what the original post means. Let’s be honest, no one apart from law enforcement wears body cameras. So that means DCC, Mechanics, even EMS shouldn’t have body cameras on. Then PD could actually do interviews to try determine an outcome. Fuck it imma make a new suggestion on this point, everyone who’s read this go and read that aswell

It is not unrealistic for EMS to have body cameras, especially given the circumstance of the server.

[Cup]

Also in the real world most EMS services, atleast in my area are required to wear bodycams and have dash cams just for insurance purposes alone.

[fweasy]

and medics dont normally get shot and held hostage...at least that i know of. yet in ecrp thats something that happens often. hence why you see MD strapped with bodycam and a .50.

[Alannn]

-1

[illin]

I believe he meant for criminals, not LEO or any legal faction for that matter. Body cams in this server are all RP based, and there is no way to know if a CRIMINAL has RPed putting one on or not. I personally like this idea as I believe it will do exactly what the OP suggested. It will allow more RP from LEO players to take statements and investigate crimes that may require a little more "finesse." Basically, just remove to ability to RPly buy a body cam from the store if you aren't given it from your government faction. 

Edited November 18, 2023 by illin

[Bala]

Unrealistic for criminals to be running around with a recording device on their chest for a multitude of roleplay-supported reasons but that doesn't quite feed the report mentality. Happily attack cops when they have the numbers advantage but heaven forbid a cop says a mean word to them, then it's a big deal.

In fairness to the OP, half the time we're watching a video in game, it don't work properly anyway.

Something, something, people lie or have selective memories when it comes to recounting /ldo so relying on actual footage as backup is always the best way forward.

You know, because if we place the wrong charge, that gets blown out of proportion.

[illin]

16 minutes ago, Bala said:

Unrealistic for criminals to be running around with a recording device on their chest for a multitude of roleplay-supported reasons but that doesn't quite feed the report mentality. Happily attack cops when they have the numbers advantage but heaven forbid a cop says a mean word to them, then it's a big deal.

In fairness to the OP, half the time we're watching a video in game, it don't work properly anyway.

Something, something, people lie or have selective memories when it comes to recounting /ldo so relying on actual footage as backup is always the best way forward.

You know, because if we place the wrong charge, that gets blown out of proportion.

Unfortunately, you're correct about every point you made. In reality, serving the wrong jail sentence is not ideal but that just creates more RP opportunities for your character if you truly believe you were wrongfully charged.

[Astrx]

Why would we investigate when we use these cameras? They were introduced IRL for the same reason; to understand everything that happened and use it as evidence. They were also implemented to ensure officers are adhering to the policies and procedures. Body cameras provide use for everyone, they ensure that civilians and criminals are being treated the proper way and also to ensure that people are being charged correctly for what exactly happened.

Removing them is not necessary and rather pointless as yes it could possibly bring some more "true" roleplay but it would turn out to be unfun after a while as people would exploit having no video cameras. There are pros and cons to this suggestion but I feel as though the cons outweigh the pros here.

Large -1 from me.