Crim RP Kinda Doggy Right Now

[XeV]

Chop Shops - 150k Import for the bench (Realistically you paying like 200k) and like 30-60k for the Hoist and Lift, Plus 300k+ For a house or property to essentially build a base around the chop for added protection, Also if seen picking a car people KNOW you have a chop and you are followed for the rest of the day.

Cooking Drugs - 7k Per table (Import If you got a solid connection) , but your looking at like 10k per table realistically + 50k for vents + Removal of apt cooking which I think was to stop the (Login, cook for 18 hours, logout) , But all it did was cripple criminals + 500k + for a house, property or business to build said lab in, so about 600-700k estimated for even beginning to cook drugs.

Stores/Atm's - Chump change and just not worth it (Fines Out weigh the Reward)

Banks - Risk VS Reward not even close to worth it with the way PD can respond

Banks (Hostage) - SUPER not worth it with the Prison Time and the possible outcome of just being blasted as soon as Hostage is clear.

My main gripe is at one point I was a nobody new player, and was a solo crim for ALONG time before I got associated with groups. Before this Update to labs and chopping It was quite ok to be a solo criminal and work your way up the ladder to get a head start and begin going to meet people. It was also fun when someone got their car stolen and we had to go on a manhunt to like 12+ different chop shops looking for it. Now no one gets their car stolen and barely anyone chops cars as it is better to just sell them to people for 200k instead of building shit to chop a car in.

I understand these updates want it to be more of a group thing instead of just doing stuff by yourself, but if someone comes into the server alone they are at a SEVERE disadvantage now then they would have been before. Physically cannot chop a car AT ALL unless you have the bench and the parts, you are forced to either freelance which is ONLY doing roadwork if you wanna enjoy what your doing, or risk it going north and making blunts or picking plants to sell to people in hopes of making a connection. 

I am all for the interaction with other players mindset, but I like to cater to all walks of life, and the little solo new players are at such a disadvantage.

CRIM RP - Just groups finding a little reason to beef for no other reason then to just PVP, Never any real escalation or good reason to beef groups. People just get bored and decide lets beef over some dumb shit so we can shoot each other.

It is just toxic af on a OOC level as the "clap tapes" roll through with the toxic edits masked behind the "No OOC hate intended" same as like starting a sentence like "I do not mean to be racist BUT, then saying something racist" 

Toxic IC because say you just having a day off and chilling with some other friends, god forbid you get seen and now you got to deal with toxic harassments for the next X amount of time till whoever is doing it gets bored just cause bored.

Also Big groups already established 10 times out of 10 will push the smaller upcomeing groups INSTANTLY and not allow them to progress or even RP at all unless they deem it to be beneficial in the long run.

 

TURN IT INTO A CRIM VS COP SHIT SHOW AND ILL JUST HAVE IT LOCKED.

Edited August 16, 2022 by XeV

[AnakinB]

This guy knows how to say things +1

[Chris_]

Won't cap. If you aren't rich, you're beat. +1

[La Ventana]

If your not rich you cant do shit 

[Melody Frey]

A huge issue I see is that bigger groups will stomp out newer groups that try to set up anything right now. There are multiple 30+ man groups that will do anything and beg for gunfights constantly, and that's my biggest complaint. I've seen a lot of problems arise from crim RP because of the amount of "power" certain groups and people have.

I've seen groups attempt to bait HQ raids and DM rights by "taxing" other groups for simply not setting up a meeting within their first little bit of time on the server. 
I've seen groups send in one or two people to an enemy HQ in hopes that the rival group will pull on them after 30+ minutes of harassment so they can swarm and kill everyone for free guns, and during that situation I was told in a /report 3 that it was an IC issue and that unless we showed them it was a hostile environment by doing that; it was not against the rules.
I've even seen groups be told they cannot post "clap tapes" and were told to take all of them down by their handlers, but right after they disbanded; Los Santos Royals were given the go-ahead to post as many as they want.

Crim RP has a lot of IC and OOC issues, ranging from the prices of weaponry, illegal items, and the power between newer groups versus both older and more populated groups.
I think the biggest problem we have is that it's very apparent that the smaller groups get destroyed and squashed before they even have a chance at official status, and the ones that do make it to official are shadows of their former selves and are forced into cookie cutter mold of what the expectations of faction management declares to be worthy unless they were a previously established official group and/or a reformation of a previously established official group. 

TLDR - You cannot get far as a criminal without a "big brother organization" or by joining a bigger one, or have been a criminal from a major org you made money from so much easier back in the day with.
You will be baited to fight at every turn, you will be told it's an IC problem, you will fight, you will die, and your morale will go down.

Not fun unless you're stacked with homies.

[cannons]

Big +1.

[XeV]

This is not a suggestion guys +1 means nothing, Its a discussion on why CRIMRP in its current state is just bad. I mean ultimately It would be nice if the would convert back to the old chop system and cooking system, but that is for another thread. 

[Herbo]

I agree with everything that has been said in this thread and hope this can lead to a good discussion on crim RP. I just wanted to say a few things that I don't think Koda touched on.

1. Play-to-win mentality has clogged the crim world and it is extremely difficult to go through any crim RP without getting an OOC message or PM to save POV for a report or something. In the current state crim RP is strictly play-to-win. You go labs and a gang will pull up on you and pull guns immediately, but if you pull on them first you get a "save pov" because the situation did not go their way.

2. Chops or labs are practically impossible as a solo if you do not have a gang. There's gangs that roll from lab to lab just going between them looking to do nothing but clap and rob and as a solo you can't do anything about that. Chopshops though, it takes way too long to the point its not profitable to do one solo because the equipment takes so long to setup and the risk of getting your chop robbed is extremely high as well.

3. Players are basically forced to join a gang even if they don't want to. I agree that money should be difficult to make as a solo but it should not be on the level it is currently at. 

That's all I wanted to say look forward to seeing more discussion about this topic.

[QuirkyMayhem]

I miss the times where you HAD to cook at a lab like sea labs or braddocks ect, even though it could be toxic at times it brought in RP not only for the bigger gangs but the smaller ones too, on my alts there would be bigger gangs who would even offer to look out for the smaller gangs while they cooked and even taught them how to. I feel like since they brought in home cooking no one is to be found because they're inside cooking.
I don't think that would run as smoothly now as it did back then, i agree with:

 

Quote

 

CRIM RP - Just groups finding a little reason to beef for no other reason then to just PVP, Never any real escalation or good reason to beef groups. People just get bored and decide lets beef over some dumb shit so we can shoot each other.

Also Big groups already established 10 times out of 10 will push the smaller upcomeing groups INSTANTLY and not allow them to progress or even RP at all unless they deem it to be beneficial in the long run.

 

I feel like bigger gangs should be a lot more open to smaller gangs, even RP small deals to help them get started, i think people forget when they're in a bigger and well known group they're setting an example for the ones that are just starting out. So if they see bigger gangs started on someone over the most ridiculous reason these smaller gangs are going to see that as something they can get away with it then we have these little 'clappers' running around shouting their mouths off all so they can find the tiniest excuse to PVP.
I've been in my fair share of smaller starting out gangs on my alts and kind of the reason why i don't really go back to them is I know how demotivating it can be to try and start up a gang only to be pushed around and bullied by the bigger guys, being chased down because we looked at them funny, for people to slowly leave for the bigger gangs so they don't have to worry about getting 'clapped'. Gotta remember that smaller gangs are learning, some of them have never been in a gang instead of finding a small reason to start war to push them out maybe guide them in the right direction, take them under your wing and show them the ropes, it'll go a long way.

[alexalex303]

The solution to criminal RP, as in the actual issues and not symptoms is a simple two-fold:

1. lower the import prices across the board, barring attachments everything could realistically see a 1/3 price cut and still be relatively hard to obtain.

2. bring back public labs to the state they were in ~2019, as in, actual tables to make the drugs and actual components spawning. LSD would be popping right now.

Those gangs that go around looking for PvP could find themselves sitting at one of the revamped drug labs and leave other gangs alone in most other cases. The lower barrier to entry into the heavy market would allow even smaller organizations to compete, albeit more selectively in heavy vs heavy fights.

[moment]

25 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

The solution to criminal RP, as in the actual issues and not symptoms is a simple two-fold:

1. lower the import prices across the board, barring attachments everything could realistically see a 1/3 price cut and still be relatively hard to obtain.

2. bring back public labs to the state they were in ~2019, as in, actual tables to make the drugs and actual components spawning. LSD would be popping right now.

Those gangs that go around looking for PvP could find themselves sitting at one of the revamped drug labs and leave other gangs alone in most other cases. The lower barrier to entry into the heavy market would allow even smaller organizations to compete, albeit more selectively in heavy vs heavy fights.

This is basically the same intake from me, to add to your suggestion there could be a small change where the drugs cooked at labs are in PURE state which obviously sells more money than the standard drugs that we usually sell. In my opinion labs up north are way more riskier and should reward more than the ones inside a property or such...

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by PhenomenalX

[retronub]

Remove home labs and make labs like they were back in 2019 and half of these problems would disappear.

[sNo0BbZz]

What @alexalex303 is saying is  true. Small gangs get stomped on cause on top of the fact that they dont have the man power, they also dont have the fire power cause of the absurd prices of heavies. Reduce the prices of heavies and maybe criminals wont be grinding 24/7 for money and actually create some interesting RP.

Edited August 16, 2022 by sNo0BbZz

[Appelgi]

Exactly.  

 

The public labs should be the core business of every gang. It produced so much roleplay due to gangs having to rely on these labs. There should be modifications done to those labs to increase the benefit and it creates a very interesting playing field for the involved gangs. 

 

I feel like the development of the server has already decided though that the way it was in 2018-2019 is never coming back, is a shame. People that remember that time will always say it was a very interesting and most certainly full of roleplay. I have played in 2021/2022 too and it doesn't come near the roleplay that was experienced earlier. Blaming the community which has been done before is total bullshit too, its done by changing the dynamic of the server.

 

Make public criminal spots (chops & labs) more accessible and profitable.

[Straza]

Crim RP is just GTAO with a few extra steps but with the way it only benefits the richer players or 30+ gangs it's not gonna change anytime soon

[Harley]

Reduce the price of everything, make the point of playing about having fun and interacting with people instead of CONSTANTLY worrying about having money.

Bring back old labs, even if it's less realistic, we're trying to make a fun game to play, not an IRL simulator.

Make drugs sold in labs worth more money, or DRASTICALLY reduce the time to make drugs in labs

[DrBeelz]

the biggest issue is official gangs are no longer reliant on others to get their imports in and so they have no need to keep alliances, there is official gangs in the city right now that are making actual rp impossible for gangs that are smaller. for example one of the faction gangs I wont say who is stopping us from using a car wash that is not scripted but we use /me's to rp getting all the gang members cars washed, you know something different from being a clapper and guess what every time we go there they say you cant come here leave or die and if we don't leave they kill us. its what crim rp has come to and if you talk to them to understand why, they are a broken record and say the same thing over and over like all they know is ive got more members do as we say or we will have dm rights as you didnt comply its sloppy rp. You try and do something other than start unnecessary beef and kill people and you just get shot down for doing so. Even if you try and meet other gangs instead of going to meetings in good faith they just bring all heavy weapons showing they have no interest in forming deals. this might be different from a big gang to big gang as wars are not going to end well for either side but god forbid you are a smaller gang meeting up with a big gang you are just an easy target to get all their weapons and shave their head just because you have more members and you can boast about it on youtube or in the forums. its bad rp and its what crim rp is right now. you try and run a chop you get raided by big gangs you try and do a bank you get 15k in charges and 5 hours if you dont have 1.3 million guess what you cant have a property. once youve got a property you need 400-500k in tables and that if all you drops dont get comped. like damn ive have a gang try and start beef because they killed our members at labs thats the escalation that some people take as enough to start wars.

[Glaikit]

Revert that whole "crim update" it was awful. A "crim update" entirely thought up by an LEO who woulda thought. Old banks, old chops, old drug labs in apartments. It wasn't good but it was better than what we have now. 

[Melody Frey]

Something I have talked about a few times that would help is that the chop system now DOES in fact bring criminals together for more group activities, but I think that the old chop shops should still operate as they did before but with a ten minute timer. Smaller groups or even solos could chop this way and get less cash along with being able to have a bit of potential RP, and bigger groups can still chop cars with toolboxes and get major amounts of income from them.

Import prices should be half of what they are now, there's no discussion to even be had there. A major issue we all have is that it's a ton of money to even start as a criminal right now and guns are no exception to that.
DOC needs fixes to make being busted be fun, but that's a totally different thread.
Old school drug labs sound fun and open up the idea of labs being used for more conflict, but I wasn't around for that so I don't know how fun or unfun those were.
I don't want apartment labs back because I don't really want to sit in my apartment for hours to make money again, and I don't want others to have to do it as well. I'd rather we just get better ways to make money as criminals and drugs should just sell for double what they do now.

[AnakinB]

13 hours ago, XeV said:

This is not a suggestion guys +1 means nothing, Its a discussion on why CRIMRP in its current state is just bad. I mean ultimately It would be nice if the would convert back to the old chop system and cooking system, but that is for another thread. 

+1

[apologisemeow]

the ability to chop at neutral turfs and adding supplies back to labs is a most as its great way for new players to make cash, should you get people constantly sending clap crews to labs on a daily basis then they should be banned to combat any toxic clapping mentality. sure you can tax people but big groups should not be partaking in large scale shootouts daily.

[alexalex303]

One of the most amazing side effects of chop shops being rarer is that you can actually leave your vehicle unattended for more than 10 minutes and no one will steal it. I think that's an improvement we should not walk back.

The only way I would support old-style chopping is if it was limited to NPC vehicles only.

[Glaikit]

28 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

One of the most amazing side effects of chop shops being rarer is that you can actually leave your vehicle unattended for more than 10 minutes and no one will steal it. I think that's an improvement we should not walk back.

The only way I would support old-style chopping is if it was limited to NPC vehicles only.

Revert the chops and make vehicles more easily tracked, instead of 5 minutes, have /showvehicle available every 1 or 2 minutes and make it also work while people are in the car instead of the tracker magically not working because the player stays inside the vehicle. It would create more RP opportunities and if your vehicle is stolen while you're buying a burger/water for example you would more easily be able to track down whoever stole it and potentially teach them a lesson about not stealing "this particular colour of vehicle because it belongs to so and so gang" etc. Also there would be more gang to gang RP how there used to be where non-official gangs would often bring vehicles to official gang's owned chops.

[KocKo]

There has been a lot of solid suggestions here, but one that I did not yet see is making Cayo Perico actually useful, either putting a few labs across the island with each of their own plantation zones, or putting up a few locations where cooking materials can be collected, both from Humane and importable. This would not only solve the issue of not having money for ingredients, but would also give people more reason to visit the island. If this was to be implemented I think that it would also be nice to implement the tug boat to be available to the public so people could take their own vehicles to the island. I think that the implementation could also add to RP, as if criminals settle there, they could make rebel groups and gather resources to take the fight directly to the government, just one of many possibilities. 

I don't think that the simple implementation of Cayo Perico would solve all the issues of crim RP in it's current state, the suggestions that I do agree with would be reverting labs and chops to how they used to work.

Reverting labs would not only make labs alive again, but would revive the (in its current state) singular most useless lab in the city AKA LSD lab.
Reverting Chops to how they used to work would fix issues with the current chopping system, as people with few funds would still be able to make money off crim RP.
I do not agree with removing the new systems entirely however, a workaround could be that labs in their old state pay less than the home labs, same going for the chops.

1 hour ago, alexalex303 said:

One of the most amazing side effects of chop shops being rarer is that you can actually leave your vehicle unattended for more than 10 minutes and no one will steal it. I think that's an improvement we should not walk back.

This I do agree with, however another possible workaround would be editing the old chop system a bit, not leaving it so that one out of 12 chops are open, but with a new day in game at 00:00, there would be an X% chance for a chop to spawn at one of those locations. The percentage could also increase over time if a chop hasn't been active for a while.

[khlifa]

7 hours ago, Harley said:

Reduce the price of everything, make the point of playing about having fun and interacting with people instead of CONSTANTLY worrying about having money.

Bring back old labs, even if it's less realistic, we're trying to make a fun game to play, not an IRL simulator.

Make drugs sold in labs worth more money, or DRASTICALLY reduce the time to make drugs in labs

+1