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XeV

Crim RP Kinda Doggy Right Now

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Nah it isn't 15k on average that's cap too.

You're also ignoring the fact that you need to be doing this at a time when a larger gang (that you trust) is even running a chop which isn't very often.

People can say it's a skill issue or they can passive-aggresively try to say you're not here to rp for not automatically agreeing with everything they say. Its all irrelevant because nobody is doing it and that's the only thing that really matters.

 

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59 minutes ago, TheOwl said:

People can say it's a skill issue or they can passive-aggresively try to say you're not here to rp for not automatically agreeing with everything they say. Its all irrelevant because nobody is doing it and that's the only thing that really matters.

That is incorrect. Just because you do not see it does not mean it does not happen. I have knowledge of at least two chop shops being operated in the past couple of days, three if you include the one from the robbery video above. 

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You mean the video titled "My first and last experience with chop shops"?

 

Just because a couple gangs do it to sustain their turfs doesn't mean it's a viable system for chopping cars in the server.

 

It's like trying to make players attend a weapons safety seminar. Great idea but simply not practical. You can't make players play on YOUR schedule and that's just one problem with the current system

 

Honestly at this point I'm just repeating back to you all the same talking points ad nauseum and you aren't hearing it.

 

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Oh boy, criminal roleplay isn't kind of doggy right now, it's on life support and the prognosis is not good. 

It doesn't really feel like there is any one individual factor that has lead it to that place but a series of negatives that make playing crim I would imagine, a frustrating, unrewarding and ultimately boring experience. You can get pissed off at stuff on here and complain but the real issue is when people actually stop caring and I'm seeing that more and more particularly from those criminal roleplayers that we should be building that side of the server around.

Looking at criminal factions for a second, I don't see any factions with presence that can dominate the scene. I see different question marks around all of them in terms of factions that could inspire how criminal roleplay goes in Eclipse.

But, the factions are an extension of how the individual experience of being a criminal in Eclipse is. If fundamentally, there is not the right kind of activities to do, you are only left with the RP you can come with and to be honest, we don't have that kind of server. Eclipse is an Action RP server. We do roleplay but you also need someone to fight, something to do, something to build towards.

We had a criminal discussion chat on Discord, I say we but I got the boot for saying some stuff. But in this chat, we'd discuss the issues that you see in game and on the forums. We'd come up with a clear solution of what to do and then over the course of going through faction services or the senior admins or the developers, somehow it would end up either as a half measure or not really what we're going for.

We're at some what of a crossroads as a community right now. We still have players, loyal players, and all they want is to log-in and enjoy themselves, no matter what it is that they do or which area of the server they are in, this shit is supposed to be fun. It hasn't been for more and more people for a while. The crossroads is that if we did tackle this issue properly, now, our server would be fucking popping again by the end of next year. If we ignore it or half arse the response, I'm not exaggerating when I say the future looks really fucking bleak for us.

For us to change it though, every body has to put on their big boy pants and properly fucking commit. No more half arsing, no more half measures. Not just the criminals but the criminal factions, the criminal faction leaders, faction services, the staff team, the modders and the developers themselves. Listen to what the criminals need and where you can, give it to them.

I've been a cop almost the entire time I've been on the server in the last 3 and a half years so I have a unique perspective on criminals but I see either good criminals disinterested in playing because of how it is OR I see people acting stupid and baiting because it's the only way they can find any enjoyment.

So, what's the answers, genius?

We need to look at what worked for Eclipse and lean into that as heavy as we can. Consider that people choose going crim because they want the freedom to act how they want to act and reap the financial rewards for the risk that they take. I'm here to say that we're massively out of fucking balance on the risk.

  • Bring back the 2019 static drug labs, until the drug update comes.
    This was the pier for criminals essentially. Their meeting spot. Where factions could interact, negatively and positively as well as the individual criminal could get their foothold into the criminal hierarchy by negotiation and risk.

    I did suggest removing a couple locations as we did not have SD last time and they are a little too public and moving them to nearer the city.
     
  • Bring back the rotating public chop shop.
    This would be the old chop shop system, where you just take a car to a rotating location on the map and chop it there. It would again be a meeting and encounter spot for criminals to engage.

    There would be a cap on the pay out to not impact the private chop shops financially but you would be guaranteed a location to take a stolen car to get money no matter what.
     
  • Reduce the price on private chop shops significantly and treat them as disposable.
    Right now they are a criminal enterprise that requires significant investment to run and the chances of them being raided or stolen by others dictates that the financial risk heavily outweighs the reward. If it's 10 people running a chop, sure but if it's two, that's a lot of money.
    Instead of the parts being so expensive on the initial outlay, what about making it so that the chop shop needs power from a generator and the generator runs on fuel which comes from the oil refinery job. The refiners could either sell their oil as normal or trade it for fuel. They can sell the fuel to the choppers for money, you get the person to person RP then.
    If your chops generator runs out of fuel, you can't use it.
     
  • Reduce the prison fines by 25%.
    Stealing a car costs you $7,500. Evading in that car would cost you $3,000. If you felony endanger, which is almost every pursuit ever, that's another $3,000. Those crimes are already like 3 hours of prison time plus $13,500 in fines. You know how many stores you'd have to rob to afford that? Just for stealing a car and evading..

    For the more established criminal, that's not as impactful but if that's a criminal which not much money? That's like three hours pay grinding a legal job.
     
  • Reduce the cost of illegal firearm imports by 30%
    A shotgun currently costs about $24k I'm reliably informed to import, which seems massively out of wack. I get that perhaps the prices are high to dissaude shootouts but reality is, this is GTA not the ballet and if you want criminals, they're going to want to kill each other every now and then. 

    Reducing the import prices by 30% would encourage more imports which comes with risk of discovery but also at the same time, would bring the price of a shotgun for example down to around $16.8k. That's not cheap cheap, but it's cheaper.

So what does that do?

Well, it gives criminals of all sizes a real opportunity to do what we want them to do which is commit crime. It's not entirely dependent on players availability so you could do it at any time of day AND it also brings the risk more in line with potential reward.

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It sounds like this thread was missing top shotta’s opinion. I think the problems with crim rp could be summarized in 2 big points. Developmental issues and the state of conflict, 

Developmental issues
This may come off harsh, but who asked for this gun update? I don’t think there is one crim that suggested or honestly wants this update to be implemented. Obviously, we haven’t played it at so for all we know it could be good but there was no complaints, suggestions, or reason for this gun update to even be a thing. As for the chop update the risk/reward just is not enough. For me when I was a newer crim, chopping was the one crim activity that I felt I could do somewhat comfortably, and I could develop relationships with gangs without needing to have a decent amount of money. With the new chop update you practically need to grind to 200k just to be able to get all the pieces for a chop and after all that work it could be completely put to waste if it’s stolen. PLEASE BRING THE DRUG UPDATE TOO!

The state of conflict
As stated, before conflict can be both good and bad for the community. Currently conflict is VERY boring, and I think that is due to the low number of gangs currently. When I joined ECRP (March 2021) there was almost 2x the number of gangs and a lot less turfs. Due to that, conflict was a lot more natural and felt less forced. Nowadays, you have 4 gangs that can gain turfs. When you have 4 gangs that can get turfs and approximately 20 (rough estimate) turfs to get in the city, there is obviously going to be no conflict with turfs between the gangs. There’s just no point in going out of your way to attack someone else’s turf when there’s multiple other unclaimed turfs. More gangs will not only cause more conflict, but it will cause natural conflict which will allow for the bigger gangs to fight the bigger gangs, and the smaller gangs to focus on building themselves up instead of getting curb stomped by the bigger gangs.

SOLUTIONS
*Remove turfs that clearly aren't being used or will not be used by official factions - Less turfs = more natural conflict between gangs. It's boring and demotivating and boring to keep your turfs knowing there's practically no risk for someone to take your turf.

*Revert the chop update - Simply is not worth the risk for the reward. The old system gives newer players/gangs an introduction to the criminal world without having to grind for a lot of money.

*Lower import prices - It seems everyone agrees this should be done.

*Bring back old labs - No one wants to sit inside of a property for hours. The players should actually have to do something and work with one another to make money.

*Lower DOC time - The time for simple crimes such as evading, or possession of a firearm should be lowered. I should not have to spend 2 hours in jail for evading with a gun in the car.

*More leniency for banned players who want to return back to the community - I know this could be a thread in itself but I'll keep it short. Keeping banned players who promoted goodrp despite their actions that caused them to be banned should have more leniency. Take Irish for example, HC was banned, they were given another chance, and now there is an active 30–40-man gang giving rp to the server. I do understand both sides of the story for the whole banned argument, but I feel that now with the lack of gangs this could be a positive change for the community.

Would love to see some comments / recognition from head admins and senior admins as they are the ones who really can make a push for change!!

Edited by Fupii
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As someone who exclusively plays a LEO character, PLEASE save crim RP.

If  crims aren't doing crimes, we are pretty much out of luck too since everything we do is reactionary.

As Bala said, we are an action based RP server so we heavily rely on crims doing crim stuff.

Lower import prices, lower jail times, bring back old chop shop methods, release/finish the drug update and house robbery updates. The community is losing trust because of all the teasers released but nothing gets released and there are NO progress updates.

Edited by Jett_J
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1 hour ago, Jett_J said:

As someone who exclusively plays a LEO character, PLEASE save crim RP.

If  crims aren't doing crimes, we are pretty much out of luck too since everything we do is reactionary.

As Bala said, we are an action based RP server so we heavily rely on crims doing crim stuff.

Lower import prices, lower jail times, bring back old chop shop methods, release/finish the drug update and house robbery updates. The community is losing trust because of all the teasers released but nothing gets released and there are NO progress updates.

Jett jones response that I can consider a W

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On 8/16/2022 at 6:57 AM, XeV said:

Banks - Risk VS Reward not even close to worth it with the way PD can respond

Banks (Hostage) - SUPER not worth it with the Prison Time and the possible outcome of just being blasted as soon as Hostage is clear.

 

Yeah. Maybe because banks are not supposed to be robbed often. You should not try unless you have a really good plan. And also, yes, you are going to get blasted the moment you try to flee when the hostage is clear because that is how it works in the United States. Per United States case law Tennessee v. Garner, lethal force can be used to stop a fleeing suspect if there is a probable cause that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or severe injuries. You are an armed criminal who has just aimed a gun at someone's head. Who knows what else you are capable of?

If you want a PD that lets you get in your car and flee with your friends while you have a handgun in your hand, maybe you should go find a FiveM server.

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2 hours ago, Thommy said:

Yeah. Maybe because banks are not supposed to be robbed often. You should not try unless you have a really good plan. And also, yes, you are going to get blasted the moment you try to flee when the hostage is clear because that is how it works in the United States. Per United States case law Tennessee v. Garner, lethal force can be used to stop a fleeing suspect if there is a probable cause that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or severe injuries. You are an armed criminal who has just aimed a gun at someone's head. Who knows what else you are capable of?

VIDEO GAME MOMENT

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17 hours ago, Thommy said:

Yeah. Maybe because banks are not supposed to be robbed often. You should not try unless you have a really good plan. And also, yes, you are going to get blasted the moment you try to flee when the hostage is clear because that is how it works in the United States. Per United States case law Tennessee v. Garner, lethal force can be used to stop a fleeing suspect if there is a probable cause that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or severe injuries. You are an armed criminal who has just aimed a gun at someone's head. Who knows what else you are capable of?

If you want a PD that lets you get in your car and flee with your friends while you have a handgun in your hand, maybe you should go find a FiveM server.

its a video game

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17 hours ago, Thommy said:

 

Yeah. Maybe because banks are not supposed to be robbed often. You should not try unless you have a really good plan. And also, yes, you are going to get blasted the moment you try to flee when the hostage is clear because that is how it works in the United States. Per United States case law Tennessee v. Garner, lethal force can be used to stop a fleeing suspect if there is a probable cause that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or severe injuries. You are an armed criminal who has just aimed a gun at someone's head. Who knows what else you are capable of?

If you want a PD that lets you get in your car and flee with your friends while you have a handgun in your hand, maybe you should go find a FiveM server.

seeing as your whole entire persona is around the video game of being a PD officer your comment holds 0 merit as you fail to recognize the other side and the hardships to even come up with a fair comment.

Also after reviewing your profile and your comments towards other forum posts I can see where you lie in terms of trying to balance things. you just will not see the other side of things and are stern in terms of never removing or balancing anything towards PD. 

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4 hours ago, XeV said:

seeing as your whole entire persona is around the video game of being a PD officer your comment holds 0 merit as you fail to recognize the other side and the hardships to even come up with a fair comment.

Also after reviewing your profile and your comments towards other forum posts I can see where you lie in terms of trying to balance things. you just will not see the other side of things and are stern in terms of never removing or balancing anything towards PD. 

If constant police players don't realise their own cop bubble they live in, they will just let criminal roleplay slowly die out, because the expectations just become higher and higher, of how things should be.

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21 hours ago, sNo0BbZz said:

VIDEO GAME MOMENT

6 hours ago, AnakinB said:

its a video game

Yeah, it's a video game, why can't I just shoot everyone I see on sight? This is a roleplay community with certain standards to be upheld. This fictional map of Los Santos, San Andreas is made known to be based on Los Angeles, California, United States —which is where we portray and take inspirations from. 

5 hours ago, XeV said:

seeing as your whole entire persona is around the video game of being a PD officer your comment holds 0 merit as you fail to recognize the other side and the hardships to even come up with a fair comment.

Also after reviewing your profile and your comments towards other forum posts I can see where you lie in terms of trying to balance things. you just will not see the other side of things and are stern in terms of never removing or balancing anything towards PD. 

Yeah, not really, no. If you actually checked, I made a few comments against PD shooting tires on suspect's vehicle where lethal force (against the suspect himself) is not lawful because that is also not how it works in the US. I give my opinions based on what I think is reasonable and acceptable to the term of "roleplay."

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Everyone please stop finger pointing from all sides and keep this discussion productive.

If the target to the problems you face is the RP of LEO then here's a reminder that you can reach out to Legal Faction Management with suggestions and criticisms (check the staff roster for who is LFM).

Someone mentioned lack of staff commenting here, keep in mind at the end of the day we don't really dictate script changes (which a LOT of these are) and that lies mostly with the developers. But still, I imagine several staff are following this thread to read people's thoughts to see what we can do to improve areas people talk about.

I personally don't have an awful lot to contribute to the topic at hand being a civ roleplayer primarily (as opposed to criminal or LEO) but that doesn't mean I can't respect the criticisms and difficulties that come with criminal roleplay so let's keep discussion on track and productive!

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On 10/10/2022 at 5:20 PM, Bala said:

Oh boy, criminal roleplay isn't kind of doggy right now, it's on life support and the prognosis is not good. 

It doesn't really feel like there is any one individual factor that has lead it to that place but a series of negatives that make playing crim I would imagine, a frustrating, unrewarding and ultimately boring experience. You can get pissed off at stuff on here and complain but the real issue is when people actually stop caring and I'm seeing that more and more particularly from those criminal roleplayers that we should be building that side of the server around.

Looking at criminal factions for a second, I don't see any factions with presence that can dominate the scene. I see different question marks around all of them in terms of factions that could inspire how criminal roleplay goes in Eclipse.

But, the factions are an extension of how the individual experience of being a criminal in Eclipse is. If fundamentally, there is not the right kind of activities to do, you are only left with the RP you can come with and to be honest, we don't have that kind of server. Eclipse is an Action RP server. We do roleplay but you also need someone to fight, something to do, something to build towards.

We had a criminal discussion chat on Discord, I say we but I got the boot for saying some stuff. But in this chat, we'd discuss the issues that you see in game and on the forums. We'd come up with a clear solution of what to do and then over the course of going through faction services or the senior admins or the developers, somehow it would end up either as a half measure or not really what we're going for.

We're at some what of a crossroads as a community right now. We still have players, loyal players, and all they want is to log-in and enjoy themselves, no matter what it is that they do or which area of the server they are in, this shit is supposed to be fun. It hasn't been for more and more people for a while. The crossroads is that if we did tackle this issue properly, now, our server would be fucking popping again by the end of next year. If we ignore it or half arse the response, I'm not exaggerating when I say the future looks really fucking bleak for us.

For us to change it though, every body has to put on their big boy pants and properly fucking commit. No more half arsing, no more half measures. Not just the criminals but the criminal factions, the criminal faction leaders, faction services, the staff team, the modders and the developers themselves. Listen to what the criminals need and where you can, give it to them.

I've been a cop almost the entire time I've been on the server in the last 3 and a half years so I have a unique perspective on criminals but I see either good criminals disinterested in playing because of how it is OR I see people acting stupid and baiting because it's the only way they can find any enjoyment.

So, what's the answers, genius?

We need to look at what worked for Eclipse and lean into that as heavy as we can. Consider that people choose going crim because they want the freedom to act how they want to act and reap the financial rewards for the risk that they take. I'm here to say that we're massively out of fucking balance on the risk.

  • Bring back the 2019 static drug labs, until the drug update comes.
    This was the pier for criminals essentially. Their meeting spot. Where factions could interact, negatively and positively as well as the individual criminal could get their foothold into the criminal hierarchy by negotiation and risk.

    I did suggest removing a couple locations as we did not have SD last time and they are a little too public and moving them to nearer the city.
     
  • Bring back the rotating public chop shop.
    This would be the old chop shop system, where you just take a car to a rotating location on the map and chop it there. It would again be a meeting and encounter spot for criminals to engage.

    There would be a cap on the pay out to not impact the private chop shops financially but you would be guaranteed a location to take a stolen car to get money no matter what.
     
  • Reduce the price on private chop shops significantly and treat them as disposable.
    Right now they are a criminal enterprise that requires significant investment to run and the chances of them being raided or stolen by others dictates that the financial risk heavily outweighs the reward. If it's 10 people running a chop, sure but if it's two, that's a lot of money.
    Instead of the parts being so expensive on the initial outlay, what about making it so that the chop shop needs power from a generator and the generator runs on fuel which comes from the oil refinery job. The refiners could either sell their oil as normal or trade it for fuel. They can sell the fuel to the choppers for money, you get the person to person RP then.
    If your chops generator runs out of fuel, you can't use it.
     
  • Reduce the prison fines by 25%.
    Stealing a car costs you $7,500. Evading in that car would cost you $3,000. If you felony endanger, which is almost every pursuit ever, that's another $3,000. Those crimes are already like 3 hours of prison time plus $13,500 in fines. You know how many stores you'd have to rob to afford that? Just for stealing a car and evading..

    For the more established criminal, that's not as impactful but if that's a criminal which not much money? That's like three hours pay grinding a legal job.
     
  • Reduce the cost of illegal firearm imports by 30%
    A shotgun currently costs about $24k I'm reliably informed to import, which seems massively out of wack. I get that perhaps the prices are high to dissaude shootouts but reality is, this is GTA not the ballet and if you want criminals, they're going to want to kill each other every now and then. 

    Reducing the import prices by 30% would encourage more imports which comes with risk of discovery but also at the same time, would bring the price of a shotgun for example down to around $16.8k. That's not cheap cheap, but it's cheaper.

So what does that do?

Well, it gives criminals of all sizes a real opportunity to do what we want them to do which is commit crime. It's not entirely dependent on players availability so you could do it at any time of day AND it also brings the risk more in line with potential reward.

 

I hope the developers and head admins read this as everyone would love this implemented.

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3 hours ago, TheOwl said:

@Thommy  You just posted a comment defending PD for blasting away the RP and then immediately went on the attack accusing criminals of wanting to go around blasting everything in sight.

You're talking nonsense dude. Just stop before you get this forum post closed down.

lol. "Blasting away the RP". Letting criminals run away with guns in hand and fleeing in a car, endangering the public after holding someone hostage is not "the RP." Reread what I said. If you let a hostage go and you're not surrendering, you're done. Letting you go means putting the public in danger by initiating unnecessary car chases. It's literally how it most likely goes in US. And god knows what else you are going to do. Car chase is something that should be avoided at all costs. If that is what "RP" is to you, then you should really consider your roleplay standard on the server.

 

And as for the rest in the original topic, I do not have any comments or oppositions to reducing cost or whatever. I could not care less. I am merely pointing out the OP's wording that suggests PD supposedly doing something wrong with the way they respond to robberies. They're doing as best as possible.

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13 hours ago, Thommy said:

Yeah, it's a video game, why can't I just shoot everyone I see on sight? This is a roleplay community with certain standards to be upheld. This fictional map of Los Santos, San Andreas is made known to be based on Los Angeles, California, United States —which is where we portray and take inspirations from. 

You when PD isnt so OP ur under fear rp just being in their presence: "😡 😩 " nah in all seriousness tho, get a grip

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