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Crim RP Kinda Doggy Right Now

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15 hours ago, alexalex303 said:

The solution to criminal RP, as in the actual issues and not symptoms is a simple two-fold:

1. lower the import prices across the board, barring attachments everything could realistically see a 1/3 price cut and still be relatively hard to obtain.

2. bring back public labs to the state they were in ~2019, as in, actual tables to make the drugs and actual components spawning. LSD would be popping right now.

Those gangs that go around looking for PvP could find themselves sitting at one of the revamped drug labs and leave other gangs alone in most other cases. The lower barrier to entry into the heavy market would allow even smaller organizations to compete, albeit more selectively in heavy vs heavy fights.

this would be perfect, i also think that drug making materials should be kept the same or upped to reduce the ammount of people cooking in home labs. (that is if they were to bring back the old supply shelfs).

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On 8/16/2022 at 2:15 PM, alexalex303 said:

One of the most amazing side effects of chop shops being rarer is that you can actually leave your vehicle unattended for more than 10 minutes and no one will steal it. I think that's an improvement we should not walk back.

The only way I would support old-style chopping is if it was limited to NPC vehicles only.

Revert chops back to their former state. This was not a side effect of the update. It was the entire purpose. 

The legal side of the community hated having their car stolen and LEO's hated that crims could hide and collect the money from the chop. There was a forum post opened about what possible changes could be made to chopping and the only suggestions listened to by staff were from the legal side of the community.

 

It's not a surprise that the entire criminal activity is complete trash now because of it.

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3 hours ago, TheOwl said:

Revert chops back to their former state. This was not a side effect of the update. It was the entire purpose. 

The legal side of the community hated having their car stolen and LEO's hated that crims could hide and collect the money from the chop. There was a forum post opened about what possible changes could be made to chopping and the only suggestions listened to by staff were from the legal side of the community.

 

It's not a surprise that the entire criminal activity is complete trash now because of it.

Someone brought up a good point in discussion towards the main issue really is chopping car.

DAMN is it nice to leave my car out in the open and not have to have it be in eyesight 24/7, but thats not because chopping is now harder and you need the bench its because of the AMAZING feature of hotwiring, So now you have to skill check lockpick and skill check hotwire instead of just wait X amount of time and be lucky you one pick it honestly making it 100% more realistic.

I am on the side of bring back old chops as a means of quick and reliable small income for crims as if someone has time to SKILL lockpick your car and hotwire in one go without fail they honestly deserve to take it (Especially since the skill check is based on the value of the car so if say they are picking a shinobi it is REALLY hard to get it as I tried one IC and its fucking insane + ping), and just keep the bench in the game for the people who MIGHT wanna try it out or make RP from it. 

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I'd like to explain something regarding the chop shops.

I was part of the reason why the changed in the first place and the reason for them changing was to give factions the opportunity to operate them as a sort of pop-up business that they would have to setup, maintain and secure to keep it running. You would in theory get out of it what you put into it.

We had a group chat with all the criminals in the server and then the staff team got involved as well. The expression too many cooks spoil the broth is a little apt and it began to spiral off into becoming something else and the end product ended up being something almost entirely different.

The idea that we came up with is solid and makes a lot of sense, but the execution of the idea was way off the mark.

Simple fact is, the hotwiring change is horrendous. We have gone from it being out of the players control as it was luck based before to having very little control over the hotwire as the whole system is dependent on how much a person lags in the server. Also, having to repeat the hotwiring thing like 50 times is mind-numbing.

So, we've gone to change something for the positive and actually managed to end up worse off than we were before.

The circle mechanism is not a good mechanism as is, I don't know why it needed to be added to everything.

I can't comment this in the criminal chat anymore, since I got the boot for suggesting that people that hide behind rules are pussies but suffice to say, chops are easily salvaged.

  • Lower the prices of the chop shops to set-up in the first place.
  • Make the amount of repetitions to steal a vehicle a lot lower. In terms of gameplay, it should probably take about 15 seconds to steal a vehicle so set the limit between 10 for shit vehicles and 20 for the high end ones.
  • Slow the wheel down a little bit and make the room for error a little wider, so even if you do lag a bit, you don't have to try and guess where to press SPACEBAR to get it.

Listen to what your player-base wants but also, keep things simple. No one plays Eclipse for complex and difficult script systems, just keep it real straightforward to use and understand.

It really isn't that difficult..

Edited by Bala
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47 minutes ago, Bala said:

I'd like to explain something regarding the chop shops.

I was part of the reason why the changed in the first place and the reason for them changing was to give factions the opportunity to operate them as a sort of pop-up business that they would have to setup, maintain and secure to keep it running. You would in theory get out of it what you put into it.

We had a group chat with all the criminals in the server and then the staff team got involved as well. The expression too many cooks spoil the broth is a little apt and it began to spiral off into becoming something else and the end product ended up being something almost entirely different.

The idea that we came up with is solid and makes a lot of sense, but the execution of the idea was way off the mark.

Simple fact is, the hotwiring change is horrendous. We have gone from it being out of the players control as it was luck based before to having very little control over the hotwire as the whole system is dependent on how much a person lags in the server. Also, having to repeat the hotwiring thing like 50 times is mind-numbing.

So, we've gone to change something for the positive and actually managed to end up worse off than we were before.

The circle mechanism is not a good mechanism as is, I don't know why it needed to be added to everything.

I can't comment this in the criminal chat anymore, since I got the boot for suggesting that people that hide behind rules are pussies but suffice to say, chops are easily salvaged.

  • Lower the prices of the chop shops to set-up in the first place.
  • Make the amount of repetitions to steal a vehicle a lot lower. In terms of gameplay, it should probably take about 15 seconds to steal a vehicle so set the limit between 10 for shit vehicles and 20 for the high end ones.
  • Slow the wheel down a little bit and make the room for error a little wider, so even if you do lag a bit, you don't have to try and guess where to press SPACEBAR to get it.

Listen to what your player-base wants but also, keep things simple. No one plays Eclipse for complex and difficult script systems, just keep it real straightforward to use and understand.

It really isn't that difficult..

W bala take Anakin_Bridge stamp of certification

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Chop Shop was a great idea that worked fine for a month or so, then you realise ECLIPSE favorite Staff Quote - "High Risk, Low Reward" Applies to Chop system. If you are a bad ass deep clapper gang sure, you can feel safe. If you are a group of random civillians that want to do GTA crim Roleplay, well you are probably fucked.

The whole idea is great, but doesn't work (c) , it made chop a luxury that only 1-2 gangs maximum can do and willing to do. After the price nerf it's not even worth it to be honest. If you have a nice RP even involving 10 people running the chop which is really fun, payout is  in the end is ... crap.

Also what's up with the shitty vehicles that you get like 2-3k after chopping?  They are not even worth the time and risk, who's idea was that? and gues what half of vehicles are shit that don't worth it.

The whole minigame system of jacking a vehicle, I would say it's kinda fine. After few weeks of jacking cars you get used to it. So it's not that bad. 

Over all, I think stealing and chopping cars is one of the fun things to do, but sadly it's aint worth the risk. 

Same as ATMS.

Same as Robbing stores.

Same as Hitting banks.

Roadworks Is new crim meta.  Jokes aside, just like many people pointed out, nothing will change, becouse Staff in their mind think everything is fine. People that have many years of sucessfull criminal experience in Roleplay games should get involved in the process, not people that play SIMS all day.

Edited by Monroe_SB
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1 hour ago, Monroe_SB said:

Same as ATMS.

I don't think ATMs should be counted with the rest of the things you mentioned. ATMs are the definition of low risk low reward and are pretty balanced. If you stash your money between them you can get away with just getting hit with a vandalism misdemeanour (15mins & $1000 fine) and make the money back pretty much instantly. My limited criminal experience has been petty crime and ATM's are very balanced in that regard.

2 hours ago, Monroe_SB said:

Roadworks Is new crim meta.  Jokes aside, just like many people pointed out, nothing will change, becouse Staff in their mind think everything is fine. People that have many years of sucessfull criminal experience in Roleplay games should get involved in the process, not people that play SIMS all day.

I also want to emphasize that we are not the ones who make development changes to the game. In fact, the criminal group chat (that I can't even see) has much more influence over that sort of stuff than I do, and quite rightly so. But at the same time some people enjoy civilian RP and that's also fine, especially considering there was a time when you couldn't enter a store without getting robbed or if you wore one of the 7 claimed colours you'd be stripped naked and robbed.

Having criticisms is perfectly fine and healthy for the server, finger pointing the blame is not.

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Overall, I agree with a lot of what has been said. Ive been playing crim and LEO for over a year now and eventually, I always end up leaving my crim for some time out of boredom and just play LEO for the majority of my time. Crim RP is extremly boring and repetitive like a lot of people said and I feel like the only way to make it fun again is to add new and exciting things for crims to do.

  • Car boosting
  • Better drug system thats friendly for new crims to get into and move up from being a 2bit crim to someone with more experience (poor solo new player crims trying to get into it and get rolled by 10 gang members with heavies which then end up doing roadworks)
  • Revert chop system and revamp it
  • Make banks not a 15 man zerg where u just point guns at tellers, press e on 2 objects and wait. Add a hacking aspect or another skill based aspect where the bank is done by 4-6 people max. (Hostage banks and any other form of unique bank RP is dead because the moment u step out of the bank, u are blasted like its the 4th of july)

The crim activies that can be done are extremely stale. There is pretty much nothing to do and so the only fun people have is drive around with their guns looking for conflict that usually lasts the duration of a fight. After all, this is a video game and people wanna shoot their guns sometimes and have fun, so why not provide good RP behind it by encouraging conflict RP in a way that makes sense. Maybe different gangs can control different crim activities and tax people on it. Lets say GBK is the prominent south side gang, so they can control the chop and drug dealer in that area. You can have a couple of members there from time to time and when anyone wants to chop, they are taxed a portion of the profits. If another gang comes along and is unhappy, lets say another southside gang comes up and both GBK and them cant come to a peaceful agreement on the tax, then the other gang can choose to contest the areas to chop/sell when they want to, and natural conflict RP can take place. Why is conflict RP discouraged so much when script / ic changes should be made to facilitate a healthy conflict RP environment where it not only makes sense, it comes naturally and isnt forced through ruleplaying ("give him demands" "did he hands you?"). This also means that newer crims are able to interact with these gangs in a healthier way or choose to "rebel" and try to get their way without paying tax (more RP ops). 

What I explained above is just some ideas and im not saying they are flawless but it is a different way to think about thinks and would obviously require A LOT more though into it and possibly would mean changes to how drops work (which idm changing as well")

 

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10 hours ago, Ash said:



Having criticisms is perfectly fine and healthy for the server, finger pointing the blame is not.

Not to offend anyone, but I checked all suggestions and discussions, alot of good ones and they are just being ignored all the time. Time to start pointing fingers and with all respect maybe people need to start think diferent what to do about criminal RP. People getting robbed at 24/7s and constant shootouts and robberies at Labs only points out that Criminal RP is so limited that for majority of people it's the only source of "criminal RP".

and about ATMS, they were fine until mini-game was added , that ruined it. Ain't worth it.  Most of criminal activies are high risk - lower rewards.

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@Bala Your feedback, as always, is greatly appreciated within the community. It certainly fills some of us in on how certain decisions get made behind the scenes. 

 

That being said I can't help but feel like there is a strong bias against Crim RP.

 

We as a community are far off from the Council days when Triads used to run laps at the Lake north of Bank to farm legals for fish and 50s.

 

We are far removed from the days when Zetas would tax small groups into oblivion or wipe them until they disband.

 

Legals can buy a drink from a store, fuel their car, or enter and exit a 24/7 without being robbed and shaved.

 

There are rules that ensure proper escalation is needed before robberies can be attempted and they are in place for a good reason.

 

But crim activities are designed in-game to be a grind. They are to be done consistently. They are not one-off events designed to maximize RP creativity. Stores, banks, chopping and even drugs are meant to be repeated on a loop in order to net a player any substantial reward.

 

But there is a ridiculous circular logic that exists on the legal side of the community that is continuously blaming crim RP for the state of crim RP.

 

It goes as follows:

-Crims hit a bank with no interaction with PD or in a typical fashion that ensures they get away with the money.

 

-LEO's complain there is no RP or that the RP is stale and done only for a win and some quick cash.

 

- Crims try to hit a bank in a way that is fresh and inventive but lose because either a) you get shit on for RPing over the win or b) because LEO's are over powering.

 

- Crims complain and LEO'S claim crims just need to play smart.

 

- Repeat step one. Crims go back to the meta.

- LEO's complain crim rp is shit and need to be more creative.

 

The payoffs for these scenarios in any fashion do not warrant taking a large risk to provide LEO's with the types of creativity they want to see. That isn't because "crim RP is shit and needs to change".

 

It's because our activities are shit and nobody's happy unless we're being caught almost immediately for a 5k split between two people.

 

It's not fair to say that Crims shouldn't finger point when there is a finger pointed at them almost exclusively.

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TLDR of this thread: Crim rp will always be doggy as long as gangs are crybaby pussies who lose a .50 and go to the forums because they cant accept they lost their shit taking dumb fights, dont put urself in a position to be shot and u wont get shot /shrug ive heard a saying from someone very wise before "There's always 2 wars when beefing with a gang, the IC war, and the forum war," 

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45 minutes ago, AnakinB said:

chop shop update: good, Cost of startup: fucking dogshit 

Nah, chopping is dead to solo/small clique crims. It's become entirely reliant on whether or not you play in the right time zone as another larger gang that finds it meaningful to do so.

 

The concept is ace. But you still need static chops for everyone else.

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9 minutes ago, TheOwl said:

Nah, chopping is dead to solo/small clique crims. It's become entirely reliant on whether or not you play in the right time zone as another larger gang that finds it meaningful to do so.

 

The concept is ace. But you still need static chops for everyone else.

Ah so like havethe chop shop where you take the parts off but also the statics?

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1 hour ago, TheOwl said:

Exactly. Rotating chops would be preferable so that it still gives PD/SD a chance to catch them. Otherwise that's just too many chop shops available at any given time of the day.

in terms of the rotating chops, are we talking like 1 at a time or multiple cause then it still just leaves the big bored gangs just camping it and thus "controlling" it and possibly even "taxing" smaller crims to use it.

My biggest grip is I try to be ALL INCLUSIVE I want everyone to have access to the same thing the same way as this is a video game at the end of the day and people wanna enjoy their time and have fun, but sadly a lot of people on this server are in the "play to win or play to gain" mindset and leave no room for anything else (also E-Thugs and E-Gangsters exist probably the most cringe part of crim rp tbh) BUT I digress  

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6 hours ago, TheOwl said:

@Bala Your feedback, as always, is greatly appreciated within the community. It certainly fills some of us in on how certain decisions get made behind the scenes. 

 

That being said I can't help but feel like there is a strong bias against Crim RP.

 

We as a community are far off from the Council days when Triads used to run laps at the Lake north of Bank to farm legals for fish and 50s.

 

We are far removed from the days when Zetas would tax small groups into oblivion or wipe them until they disband.

 

Legals can buy a drink from a store, fuel their car, or enter and exit a 24/7 without being robbed and shaved.

 

There are rules that ensure proper escalation is needed before robberies can be attempted and they are in place for a good reason.

 

But crim activities are designed in-game to be a grind. They are to be done consistently. They are not one-off events designed to maximize RP creativity. Stores, banks, chopping and even drugs are meant to be repeated on a loop in order to net a player any substantial reward.

 

But there is a ridiculous circular logic that exists on the legal side of the community that is continuously blaming crim RP for the state of crim RP.

 

It goes as follows:

-Crims hit a bank with no interaction with PD or in a typical fashion that ensures they get away with the money.

 

-LEO's complain there is no RP or that the RP is stale and done only for a win and some quick cash.

 

- Crims try to hit a bank in a way that is fresh and inventive but lose because either a) you get shit on for RPing over the win or b) because LEO's are over powering.

 

- Crims complain and LEO'S claim crims just need to play smart.

 

- Repeat step one. Crims go back to the meta.

- LEO's complain crim rp is shit and need to be more creative.

 

The payoffs for these scenarios in any fashion do not warrant taking a large risk to provide LEO's with the types of creativity they want to see. That isn't because "crim RP is shit and needs to change".

 

It's because our activities are shit and nobody's happy unless we're being caught almost immediately for a 5k split between two people.

 

It's not fair to say that Crims shouldn't finger point when there is a finger pointed at them almost exclusively.

THIS

In Royals when we started I LOVED planning bank heists with Drake, escape route, drop offs, bike set ups, Plan A's Plan B's, Bait and Switches. IT was so good, especially when we got the RP AND got away with the money. But you put EVERYTHING in the Leo's hands PRAY they do not blast you when the hostage is cleared, PRAY someone on radio does not need a coughdrop at a key moment, PRAY the game does not bug out or desync something. 

BUT boy when you get caught does it fucking HURT your bank and IRL time. The main thing is why would I not take the option of mass zerg get in get out disperse into 30 bikes and get away for free? ECRP's economy is fucking awful, money rules all and shit is just SO expensive. You quite literally have to play by a mindset of "can I afford to do this?" I do not cook nor do I ever plan too cause I find it boring but to get a lab started I did the math in this thread or another but from the ground up its easily like 600k+ and there is always room to "min max" it and work your way up that ladder to getting a stable thing going.

IF stuff was not as expensive as it was or making "comfort" money as a crim was not so bleh. People would report less and Not be afriad to take an L once and awhile for the sake of some funny RP or good RP.

99% of reports nowadays are "just incase". huge shootouts 9X out of 10 is getting a just incase report just to see if MAYBE someone did something a little rule breaky so then the refund requests come in cause dude spent X amount of time getting that AK and Kevlar.

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@XeV Two might be better in case a small group gets lazy but I'd like to think the larger gangs would deal with them. But if a large faction is camping a rotating chop it's only because a) it pays better or b) they are starving for conflict.

 

Like you said a lot of the root problems with crim rp comes down to the economy of things. It's been suggested that prices be lowered but that doesn't necessarily fix the issue of criminal activities not being worth the effort so I'd rather see crim activities take a bump in pay out. If large gangs can hold a chop make taking the parts worth it beyond sustaining their turfs.

 

As far as conflict goes I believe Ash mentioned somewhere that faction  to faction events are coming which to me is necessary for facilitating healthy conflicts. It gives factions an outlet and hopefully provides more meaningful RP interactions between rival factions before they clap each other. 

 

And yes, if criminals are actually able to make money taking an L won't hurt as much and you'll be far more likely to see Crims taking chances for the RP

Edited by TheOwl
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