Crim RP Kinda Doggy Right Now

[TheOwl]

Why else would a Cliffhanger not be considered an off road vehicle?

The bike itself and it's name are clearly indicative of the fact that its a modified rally racer. 

There was confusion around the usage of this bike for quite some time until it was ruled that it wasn't to be used offroad.

 

I'm assuming here but the number of complaints from LEO players in reports around the time this ruling was handed out is pretty telling.

[AnakinB]

1 hour ago, MrSilky said:

Source?

its got knobbies so it can stay in the dirt better

Edited October 23, 2022 by AnakinB

[TheOwl]

Should we go a step further and touch on why chopping vehicles is completely trash because of the amount of LEO's complaining that crims can hide and collect the money?

It's laughable that any player would be upset over another player collecting 5k.

 

How about the no back up rule?

Gang diplomacy has become completely irrelevant because LEOs are so used to running into situations with vests and carbines and that being MORE than enough that they aren't even willing to take their own advice and try planning out a route of attack to ensure their survival. It's best to just kill as many crims as possible to stall until their back up arrives. It's not like they lose anything if they die. Win/win.

 

There is a large win mentality from one side of the server and you flip flop from realism and this being just a video game whenever it suits your arguments.

You claim your RP standards are high and yet cops will do 150mph up onto a sidewalk to smash someone's bike into a wall in an attempt to stall it over a vandalism charge.

 

You are just a faction. You do not provide any more of a service to the server than crims do. Your objective is not to rid the server of crime. You have no more of a right to win any given scenario than any other faction on the server.  

 

The actual policing is done OOCly by staff and admin in regards to hacking/exploits/ban evading.

PD/SD are not an extension of this.

[Viiperz]

7 minutes ago, TheOwl said:

Should we go a step further and touch on why chopping vehicles is completely trash because of the amount of LEO's complaining that crims can hide and collect the money?

It's laughable that any player would be upset over another player collecting 5k.

 

How about the no back up rule?

Gang diplomacy has become completely irrelevant because LEOs are so used to running into situations with vests and carbines and that being MORE than enough that they aren't even willing to take their own advice and try planning out a route of attack to ensure their survival. It's best to just kill as many crims as possible to stall until their back up arrives. It's not like they lose anything if they die. Win/win.

 

There is a large win mentality from one side of the server and you flip flop from realism and this being just a video game whenever it suits your arguments.

You claim your RP standards are high and yet cops will do 150mph up onto a sidewalk to smash someone's bike into a wall in an attempt to stall it over a vandalism charge.

 

You are just a faction. You do not provide any more of a service to the server than crims do. Your objective is not to rid the server of crime. You have no more of a right to win any given scenario than any other faction on the server.  

 

The actual policing is done OOCly by staff and admin in regards to hacking/exploits/ban evading.

PD/SD are not an extension of this.

I'll have whatever you're smoking!

[TheOwl]

Before too many LEO players feel like they're being attacked I'd like to mention that I am generalizing.

This is not to say that this is the behaviour of every LEO on the server.

 

But it's enough of you to mention.

[Commander783]

50 minutes ago, TheOwl said:

How about the no back up rule?

Gang diplomacy has become completely irrelevant because LEOs are so used to running into situations with vests and carbines and that being MORE than enough that they aren't even willing to take their own advice and try planning out a route of attack to ensure their survival. It's best to just kill as many crims as possible to stall until their back up arrives. It's not like they lose anything if they die. Win/win.

 

There is a large win mentality from one side of the server and you flip flop from realism and this being just a video game whenever it suits your arguments.

You claim your RP standards are high and yet cops will do 150mph up onto a sidewalk to smash someone's bike into a wall in an attempt to stall it over a vandalism charge.

Take away armour from regular cops.

Take away boosted vehicles from the cops.

Let's make them think and plan things that way out more.

It will change regular player behaviour.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Commander783

[Kenny Davis]

Give everyone 5 lives. Character reset when lives depleted. 

[Commander783]

5 minutes ago, Kenny Davis said:

Give everyone 5 lives. Character reset when lives depleted. 

Not suitable for this kind of server imo.

[Kenny Davis]

Just now, Commander783 said:

Not suitable for this kind of server imo.

Yea probably not, wasn’t really serious either. But I do think many people don’t care about getting themselves killed so I wouldn’t be mad if they implemented like a respawn cool-down or something. 

[IAmTurtle]

3 hours ago, Commander783 said:

Take away armour from regular cops.

Take away boosted vehicles from the cops.

Let's make them think and plan things that way out more.

It will change regular player behaviour.

What cop does not wear armor in the states?

 

crims should stop driving sports and suppers everywhere 

 

crims should think before stupidly engaging cops

 

we are very reactionary. 90% of our policy had come from crim action

[TheOwl]

Get rid of the no backup rule and hold PD/SD accountable for the same type of mentality. 

 

Just go about it smart and don't stupidly engage two dangerous organisations without a proper plan of action. 

[Commander783]

4 minutes ago, IAmTurtle said:

What cop does not wear armor in the states?

 

crims should stop driving sports and suppers everywhere 

 

crims should think before stupidly engaging cops

 

we are very reactionary. 90% of our policy had come from crim action

When you play, you don't essentially care about realism, you care about the fun and the possibilities and what's not possible, regarding rules and such. Counts for everyone really, be it crim/gov/civ etc.

Problem is, that some people who are used to medium/heavy roleplay, really think, that most of the population will go the same medium/heavy roleplay direction. This will be not the case, for the 5 years this server has shown.

They have not succeeded, to make this server a fully rounded experience in 5 years, regarding civ/crim/gov balance.

With the addition of the road workers job, I have some hope regarding more civ stuff, but they would need to change existing jobs, to make it similar to the road workers job, that you have to work with others and that you are rewarded to work with others and connect to each other.

So taking away the armour for certain law enforcement groups, would create a big impact, because it will mean, that your brain will not think, that you are invincible, but actually have to care more and not everyone will be someone with two lives anymore.

And forget about thinking, that long term criminals, especially those who have achieved a lot already, will regard to shitty cars, when there are +50k fines for going to prison.

But yeah, generally speaking, most criminals aren't the smartest either way and that will probably never change.

[TheOwl]

Crims do adapt. The server just introduces rule/price changes to counter their play.

 

Take BF400s for instance. These things were starter vehicles until the price was boosted to make them less affordable. Simply because the server dislikes how theyre used against LEO's. Which only further lends credence to the fact that Gargoyles and Cliffhangers were ruled to not be offroad vehicles because of the fact that they were being utilized, otherwise why would it even be an issue?

Everything is tailored for the enjoyment of PD/SD because they're led by admin.

Criminals are not stupid. They understand that things are never going to change and they genuinely couldn't care anymore so they find enjoyment in any small way that they can because it's hard to take it seriously at this point.

 

 

[Commander783]

Most new players I meet in the server are like: "Come let's go rob a bank/store/atm's"

These kind of players are the GTA Online experience and these kind of players don't really have an idea what roleplay is to my feeling, even when they do finish the Quiz.

[Barny]

38 minutes ago, TheOwl said:

Crims do adapt. The server just introduces rule/price changes to counter their play.

 

Take BF400s for instance. These things were starter vehicles until the price was boosted to make them less affordable. Simply because the server dislikes how theyre used against LEO's. Which only further lends credence to the fact that Gargoyles and Cliffhangers were ruled to not be offroad vehicles because of the fact that they were being utilized, otherwise why would it even be an issue?

Everything is tailored for the enjoyment of PD/SD because they're led by admin.

Criminals are not stupid. They understand that things are never going to change and they genuinely couldn't care anymore so they find enjoyment in any small way that they can because it's hard to take it seriously at this point.

 

 

Agreed. On top of that any hardcore PD/SD player that goes crim simply quits and goes back to PD/SD.
Shit's not changing anytime soon, doesn't matter what gun updates come in place. It's a complete mentality that needs a change.
As someone who's been playing crim for a long time, I'd advise players who do not like crim RP the way it is to simply play something else as it's not going to change anytime soon.
 

[Antonio_Colombo]

1 hour ago, Barny said:

Agreed. On top of that any hardcore PD/SD player that goes crim simply quits and goes back to PD/SD.
Shit's not changing anytime soon, doesn't matter what gun updates come in place. It's a complete mentality that needs a change.
As someone who's been playing crim for a long time, I'd advise players who do not like crim RP the way it is to simply play something else as it's not going to change anytime soon.
 

Agree on that, imo lead people don't even know that players do not feel well treated (besides Leo, of course). Wonder, if people stopped playing / donating, would it ring any bells to the owners? 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Antonio_Colombo

[IAmTurtle]

3 hours ago, TheOwl said:

Get rid of the no backup rule and hold PD/SD accountable for the same type of mentality. 

 

Just go about it smart and don't stupidly engage two dangerous organisations without a proper plan of action. 

I think the back up rule needs to stay. I know it sucks and its not the best but it is truly needed. Gangs would get squashed out easily by these 90 man groups that would just run around a roll labs. I think a crime mentality shift needs to happen before it can ever be talked about being removed. 

[TheOwl]

48 minutes ago, IAmTurtle said:

I think the back up rule needs to stay. I know it sucks and its not the best but it is truly needed. Gangs would get squashed out easily by these 90 man groups that would just run around a roll labs. I think a crime mentality shift needs to happen before it can ever be talked about being removed. 

I hear what you're saying but the no backup rule was only introduced because Aztecas and LFM wouldn't run from PD and SD and would literally smoke both factions simultaneously and have the next 30 minutes to do as they pleased because of the NLR. 

 

Which is why it's so amusing to me to listen to LEO's use the "Git Gud Retards" argument. It really wasn't so much that they were OP as much as it came down  to piss poor tactics.

 

Show up together instead of trying to arrive on scene as fast as possible and when you do pull up don't drive directly into the middle of the fight.

 

There are escalation rules in place to protect legals and smaller factions from larger gangs these days.

[McLovin1257]

On 10/23/2022 at 11:13 AM, Bala said:

In my experience, criminals and cops don't need to be balanced.

Criminals just need to feel that they have options when it comes to what to do when it comes to being logged in AND also feel like they at least have a chance of getting away, even though they'll likely be caught.

The real difficulty is when the experience of actually doing the thing you are getting caught for sucks, because getting caught and going to prison sucks. So it's a double suck.

If I'm having the time of my life boosting cars or cooking with the boys, I'm not really going to give as much of a fuck about going to prison for a couple hours because it was worth the time.

One thing I've mentioned over and over, unless you've been caught red handed doing a crime, there's drug smoke coming out of your house or you've been arrested then I don't get the point of offline house raids besides it being something a bored detective does. There were less than 150 players online when my raid took place, more than likely under 100. They had nothing better to do than raid a solo criminals house over a "warrant" signed by a judge? It's just overkill. I can see that pissing a lot of new players who grinded their asses off, and them saying "I'm good on this, this is too much". I've got the money to replace a good amount of the stuff I lost, but even I'm having issues justifying playing this again for longer than a couple hours. Why would I waste my time trying to avoid every conflict possible and trying to stay relatively lowkey if i'm just going to have undercovers or people tapping my phone to raid my house? I have no idea the process behind my homes getting a warrant, all I know is that I avoided every single fun criminal thing to do because I thought it would keep me off the radar because the prison times are insane. This was all moot, and I lost my stuff. Why would I keep playing this? 

 

This might sound like sour grapes like I've said repeatedly, but it's an honest question that does need answered. "Why bother?" is a question that goes through a lot of players minds, and makes them choose more lenient and debauchery based servers that I won't mention that have 10x the player count.  There's a perfect medium that can be achieved here for RP, realism, and crime and punishment; we're way too far in a punishment direction, and the only way criminals can make any decent money is by having to perform anti-social tasks that you have to have a 300,000$ home + 200,000$+ in equipment to even make worth it. 

[McLovin1257]

4 hours ago, Commander783 said:

Most new players I meet in the server are like: "Come let's go rob a bank/store/atm's"

These kind of players are the GTA Online experience and these kind of players don't really have an idea what roleplay is to my feeling, even when they do finish the Quiz.

There's no reason to, what do people realistically have to roleplay here? There are barely any social situations where a normal person starting this server would feel the need to even type a /me. The three activities where most RP occurs is in ambulance pickups, robberies, and arrests. RP has to come from an organic source, and because of the nature of this server; people only go for those few options. If you RP in any crime deal situation, it's too risky because of PD spying or outside observers coming to rob you. There are no real player businesses where RP could take place either due to the minimum of 2,000,000$ required to open one, and the bureaucratic  fashion to have a dynamic door with interior to be set up. There are odd token clubs being open here and there which doesn't attract new people to RP inside. Can you honestly say a player has anything to organically RP about besides a few token interactions with people they meet?

 

This servers structured to be a weird life simulator and that's where the "RP" comes from, except it's a life simulator that's nerfed and structured to only benefit the PD and keep everyone else in their place. If you do anything criminal, you risk losing nearly everything and spending the equivalent of real life work shifts in an in-game prison. If you play as a civ and do ZERO crime you're going to be grinding until Christmas to get a house, if the prices don't inflate again to ridiculous levels. 

[Thommy]

15 hours ago, Commander783 said:

Take away armour from regular cops.

Take away boosted vehicles from the cops.

LAPD cops have armor plates inside their shirt. Deployed SWAT gets tactical external vest.

Boosted vehicles... yeah sure. I think that should be limited to the Central Traffic Division.

16 hours ago, TheOwl said:

You claim your RP standards are high and yet cops will do 150mph up onto a sidewalk to smash someone's bike into a wall in an attempt to stall it over a vandalism charge

That's reportable, LOL.

[Bala]

On 10/25/2022 at 5:02 AM, Thommy said:

LAPD cops have armor plates inside their shirt. Deployed SWAT gets tactical external vest.

Boosted vehicles... yeah sure. I think that should be limited to the Central Traffic Division.

That's reportable, LOL.

LOL you don't even go here

[Mortem]

I've had experiences regarding criminal RP on eclipse as a solo player, in a small group, and in a much larger group. In my opinion the biggest setback in regards to me playing as a solo player was law enforcement. As a new player, you are undoubtedly less organized and less knowledgeable about how the server works, and your only way of getting money would be through small-scale operations such as robbing ATMs and stores.  From my experience back then, not only was it extremely slow to make money off stores, but to actually competently perform these robberies requires a team of people who know what they are doing. Most of the time, new/solo players will find themselves in DOC having lost a lot of their money, or in debt, and when in this position it is extremely difficult to get back off your feet as a new/solo player, which is just extremely demoralizing.

To make it clear, I am on this server to have fun, and that is the only reason people should be playing this server, for the pure reason that it is enjoyable. I think a lot of people forget that this is the primary reason for playing. PVP is also enjoyable and a key aspect of the server, an obvious step to improving the roleplay standard of PVP engagements and the roleplay standard between gangs is to give us something to work with. 

As of right now, there's just simply not a lot to do, there's really no opportunities for Crim's to seek out that are profitable or don't require hours of grinding to successfully complete. I for one actually like the new chop shop update, that's simply my personal opinion. To spice things up, add these opportunities, with more variety, something as simple as:

• Giving criminals the ability to import fake licences
• Jewellery heists 
• Criminal run mechanic, with illegal vehicle enhancements such as in real life

Just these simple ideas, I believe, would create new fun roleplay opportunities. Then again, this is simply my opinion, however I think a lot of players would like something else to do other than remain at the pier fishing for 17 hours a day. 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Mortem