Bala

If this is going to get any traction, we're probably going to need more responses.

This concerns me in all the right ways, love different factions.

I liked the old static drug lab system in the sense it was a meeting point for criminals making money, a little bit like the pier for legal people. I think instead of going with what they did, they should of just added some more locations, especially in the city for it.

There was absolutely no reason to change it. If I'm injured somewhere and i'm not catatonic, I'm going to be screaming my head off, not doing my best Ying Yang twins impression. If I can use my phone, I can use my radio. This didn't need changing, we just need to enforce the rules of when it's appropriate to tweak the freq and press a panic button.

Appreciate the support so far

With the most recent changes, you cannot use your radio in the script while you are in a downed position. Now, as a courtesy, PD have been told we cannot use the panic button on our radios either, as it's part of the radio. Yet, every one can still use their phones to call 911 or whomever. -- I recognise phone usage has to be allowed, or it would kill off the Medical Department's activity. Half of their calls are from downed people. But allowing phones and disallowing radio usage doesn't make any sense since it is more or less the same thing, pushing buttons and using your voice. Ultimately, I'm not a fan of this change at all. I think it limits role-play unnecessarily. We had pretty decent rules for 'tweak the freq' and posting panics. I think that was sufficient. -- Ultimately if there was to be any kind of forced change on radio usage, tie it to what injuries a person sustained to down them. If I hit a lamp post on my bicycle, I should still be able to use my radio but my upper torso looks like a human colander with gun shots then using it would prove to be a challenge. I'm all for the script evolving, but it has to be in ways that allow for different role-play and also in ways that make sense. If someone is using their radio in scenarios they shouldn't, punish the individual.

Date and time (provide timezone): 29/08/2020 GMT Character name: Dezzy Bala Issue/bug you are reporting: I was listening to a song driving through Vespucci, I crashed to desktop and when i came back, the car speaker would no longer work with any link even though previously it had worked with the same link. Expected behavior: Playing a youtube link again after crashing should work. Evidence, notes worth mentioning, steps to replicate: Have a song playing over the car speaker. Crash / ALT+F4 your game. Come back and try to play the song again. Vehicle license plate number*: CHAV

Personally, I think the way the server handles it (someone being able to ask someone to stop) is the most practical way of doing it. The reality is, we're playing an adult game and trying to simulate a real-life environment. People do say the N word, even casually in sentences. Look at how much the character of Lamar says it in GTA V's single-player for example. I think asking for permission to say something like that encroaches a little bit too much on the flexibility of role-play. The kind of gross role-play that the rule is for, is for things that are way out there in terms of content. Like I said, people do say it casually, right or wrong, it's a part of our generation's language. What does bother me however is people using real life events like the George Floyd situation, in their role-play. It has absolutely nothing to do with our world, yet you have 14 year old edgelords screaming in their microphones that they can't breathe and stuff like that. I think if it's in the context of the role-play situation and it doesn't break server rules, you should have the freedom to say what you want but also acknowledge that not everyone is going to share the same views so it's common courtesy if someone is uncomfortable with that kind of talk on an OOC level to stop using it.

If someone has ten hours to spend working on a safe, they deserve their riches.

As long as you maintain a positive attitude Ricky!

You like undercover work, but you want those doing it to drive around with a siren on it? In your circumstances, cops have to formally identify themselves so why wouldn't you ask for them to show you some identification? I'm not sure LSPD's detectives should lose the ability to do what is already a different job, because you didn't think to ask more questions. There is no "fix" to be made here, whether or not a detective places a siren on their vehicle is a matter of personal choice and if it was to be enforced, it would have to be enforced in-character.

People don't want a justice system. People want to get able to get away with shit.

The problem with making a decision, ANY decision is that you are going to do something that someone doesn't like. It's easy to post on a forum and say something is bad. The faction cap has seemed to have hurt Triads but at the same time, that change seems to have been motivated by negative behaviours. It wasn't something that was just added for the sake of it. Same goes with the faction war rules during the last big faction war that were introduced. From an outsider's perspective as part of PD, it wasn't just motivated by that last war but the previous few wars where things just get silly. Massive shootouts in broad daylight, convoys of 15 vehicles chasing one guy around the city etc.. It gets to the point where it gets forgotten what kind of server this is supposed to be. I will agree with you on one point, the communication BEFORE changes are implemented needs to be improved. Surprising people does tend to lead to an exaggerated reaction, where as if people know things are coming, it's less impact when it finally does happen. If the devs/senior admins decide on implementing stuff that effects factions, for whatever reason, informing them before-hand not only gives the opportunity for feedback/tweaks, but also gives factions a feeling of inclusion and mitigates the shock of receiving a change negatively. I'll give you an example. Imagine the senior staff want to get rid of importing heavies in the server. If they don't communicate that and just do it, what is the reaction going to be? You are going to get people that don't like it regardless but also you are going to get the shock factor too. But if they were to say, we're going to be removing heavy weapon imports, you have time to process the information. You might still hate the decision, but you lose that instant reaction. As for the factions that were mentioned after my last post, this is just my personal opinion but those factions that didn't end up official, did not end up official because they were not of the standard that the server requires. That failure and difficulty for some of those factions to get over the line to official is why the staff team have decided to make two new factions. They are almost a 'how-to' manual for getting official. Truth is, I don't think getting official is actually that deep. You've just got to be consistent, stay within the rules and be active. You don't need 50 people, you don't need to win every situation, you don't need staff in your faction. You just need to be reliable on all fronts and promote the values the staff team want for the server.

I had asked Bakmeel about this a little, when I found out it was a thing. I'll admit to initially having concerns about it, some of those concerns are mentioned in this thread. But having spoke to him about it, I understood the reasons for it and it's not that big a deal. Perhaps some people might assume that them being official, stops their faction being official, which it does not. The only thing that can make or break your faction would be how your faction behaves, as Montie said. Personally, I feel we have lost some big factions. Zetas for as long as I know were THE Eclipse illegal faction. WCA were legitimate as a street gang. The Wanted offered something different to the other groups. Hell, even Triads aren't the same anymore with Zetas gone and the criminal cap. I feel that with every one of these departures, we've taken an L to the crim scene every time. I don't feel that the factions that have come up in the wake of those departures have banged to be honest. I don't see the variety that The Wanted brought, I don't see the legitimacy that WCA offered, I don't see the presence that the Zetas brought to the streets. Maybe that's just a case of giving these current factions time, but can we REALLY be mad about admins taking control and trying to build a better criminal scene? The way it was announced could of been better perhaps but if it leads to better quality factions, I'm into it. Simple fact is, factions lead by high up staff members aren't going to be exploiting loopholes and using our reports systems for less than pure reasons are they? I care more about end product than I do about how the faction got there at this point. Personally, I look forward to arresting them.

It would be nice to get the SD's new precinct and PD's latest precincts scripted in as official NCZ.

Alright so i've read a few of these examples people have come out with and discussions on the force continuum. I'd like to use the Philadelphia PD use of force to explain some of the policy and how the procedure works and also, what effect the limitations of the game have on things. Starting at the bottom with No Force. Essentially if the suspect is complying, is not displaying signs of aggression and are following orders, PD are supposed to do nothing more than issue verbal commands and be there. This can be stuff like asking people to take of their masks or to move their vehicles at the pier. Moderate to Limited Force. This is if the suspect is resisting/non-complaint. In this case, cops would use physical restraint or perhaps pepper spray if the suspect is resisting / non-complaint. In the Actualbears posted, they were non-complaint so they would be physically restrained or sprayed with pepper spray if they did that IRL. The issue with this is that there is no pepper-spray in GTA V and roleplaying physical restraint is quite difficult and it's going to take time to get the person down, keep them restrained, cuff them and then get them to do what you want. So, essentially, Limited Force becomes Less Lethal Force. This permits the use of a baton or a taser. With the baton, sync is currently an issue but with the taser, it's a little more accurate. Then deadly force is pretty obvious. I don't want to discuss IC specifics, but essentially it breaks down to verbal > taser > firearm and it is dependent on what you do. If you have no weapon and don't resist, you're not getting tased. If you resist but don't aim a firearm, you will get tased. If you aim a firearm, you are getting lit up. Like it says on the chart, use the option that represents the minimal amount of force necessary.

We have 17 people in our administration team, of which 6 are not in the Police Department which is 64, not over 80% is it? In terms of our Head Admins, one is in charge of illegal factions and two of the others are in charge of all government factions IC. Saying things like "Don't expect changes." -- Probably not with that attitude Keanu. Every situation where criminals shoot at cops, is because cops instigate that? Seems a reasonable deduction. Interesting, because had you been anything more involved in PD than just a regular cop, you probably would of gotten to have taken part in some of our hostage situations or swat operations where a lot of thought goes into not just how they are ran but also consideration of how true to life, things are. Sometimes things perhaps don't get taken care of and the PD always doesn't always acknowledge the other side. But are you seriously going to tell me, that community members with attitudes like the one you are displaying in this thread, are thinking of anyone else's side but their own? Anyones interests, but their own? You've already stretched the truth twice in your post regarding the amount of cop admins (although why that would even be an issue when they've earned their spots) and the amount cops instigate shootouts. Personally, I don't think it's cop admins that are holding the server back, it's people with attitudes like yours. I took the time above to answer Architer's points respectfully and truthfully, then you decide that this is going to be your moment to stick the knife in. Perhaps you need to consider your own role within our roleplay community and whether your a part of a potential solution or whether you are perpetuating the same kinds of problems you are complaining about.

I'm not in investigations, but how do you build a case on someone if you aren't allowed to investigate how they spend their time? I'm also not sure what you would consider as minor, but if it's a criminal act, in-character we are duty bound to put a stop to it and calling for back-up is a way of showing fear for personal safety, which you have referenced in another one of your points. While I agree that people going down this route would create some interesting role-play scenarios, it would die on the first day. For the sad reason that people would inevitably loophole using OOC information about a person and use that as a way of blocking them out of getting anything interesting done. The only plausible way to do it would be to agree to do this with the PD and then join the criminal faction first. Once it was time to make the case, you could hit the gang with the surprise motherfucker treatment. But you could then only do that the once, because once you did it to one faction, everyone else would hear about it and I guarantee the next day you'd have people trying all sorts to of questionable metagamey stuff to prevent that happening to them. I see this complaint quite a bit and to be completely truthful, OOC, I could care less about my character getting killed but in-character, if i'm in a situation I know I cannot handle, I'm backing off and calling for backup. OOC, I respawn and it's no big deal. IC, I'm going to do everything I can to not die but at the same time, I have to role-play my line of duty. That being said though. You as a criminal, you are driving your personal vehicle. You are wearing your personal clothes with your pockets full of your personal items. In your wallet is your personal money and if you get caught doing something illegal, you lose your personal time. When I am on duty, I'm driving my government issued vehicle. I'm wearing my government issued clothes and i'm armed with government issued weapons. My pockets are empty, my wallet is empty. You have the freedom as a criminal to conduct yourself however you wish to, where as me as a cop, I have strict procedures and protocols to abide by. I cannot do do anything to you, unless you do something to me first. The price for that freedom to act is that, if you die or get caught, you lose more than I do. The incentive should be to not get caught. If you are talking about having something to lose, then really you are asking us to lose things just to lose them, not because it makes sense for us to. Cops can of course carry their personal items if they wish, but considering the nature of our role in the server, you would be foolish if you did that. This is more a server rule issue. The flip side of that is people continuing to talk on their radio when cops have guns on them or switching their radio frequencies in situations you wouldn't want to do things with their hands. If people are doing these kind of things, on either side, they need to be punished and for that, they should be reported. As far as what detectives do in terms of case files, I've had the same amount of days in Investigations as you have so I can't comment on the specifics of what they do. As for some of the situations that you've mentioned, I think the danger is that that people are unable to distinguish between those incidents happening in isolated instances and it just being what Investigations do. I do know for a fact that every member of IB for example puts in an incredible amount of out-of-game work on the government forums building up cases and collecting evidence on organisations and people. As someone like myself that has been in PD and made some mistakes, I think you should perhaps be a little more understanding that sometimes people let themselves down. A lot of my reply is defending what my faction does, but I think it comes down to perhaps seeing more of the picture than you guys as criminals get to, or maybe sometimes even want to. It's fine for PD to be the enemy IC, but we have to make sure that it doesn't get personal OOC which for some people it can and it clouds people's judgement.

Any feature's implementation lives and dies by having the right kind of balance. You can take an okay idea and make it good by balancing it right or kill a great idea by unbalancing it. With this, obviously you have to be mindful of the fact criminals would be putting in their own money to tip the scales in their favour where as Investigations would be spending government money. Something the commissioners do tend to be quite firm on though is how much money is being spent on specific things. You won't likely see it outside of the faction, but although PD has a good sized budget, there is an audit where things have to be accounted for, it's not just a complete blank chequebook. You don't want the budget to be so meagre that PD can never get any intel out of it, but at the same time you don't want it to be so high that PD can keep pouring money and drowning the idea. In terms of limits, you'd probably set the weekly PD budget for bribes slightly under what you'd expect criminals to spend a week on it.

With the recent implementation of the turf system, it has brought many new changes and developments to the criminal side of the server. However, I do feel that perhaps the investigative police side of things could be not only more interesting but, a little more realistic. I don't know if anyone reading this has watched The Wire, but the character of Bubbles (the addict) was often quite instrumental to helping the detectives with their work and I would like to see something along those lines implemented in the server as a sequel to the turf NPCs. I'm aware that police can interact with the NPCs inside the turfs by "extracting information" but frankly, I feel that that is a dead-end as far as investigations goes. On the one hand, criminals accuse PD of camping these spots and on the other hand, PD has almost an over-incentive to find these spots so they gather information regarding an upcoming drop. You don't want cops being around the turfs TOO much but you also don't want to make it TOO easy to import items, because that will inevitably saturate the market, drive down the prices and also, sadly people will be using weapons more in situations where they probably shouldn't. I was never a fan of the 5% chance to get notified about a shipment, simply because you are relying on RNG to be able to react. You want as much to be driven by the player as possible, on both sides. Criminals should be able to take extra security measures to ensure they get their drop but also, you want to be able to reward the police using their resources to catch criminals. Neither side should win all the time, that's boring. The thrill is in the cat and mouse game of criminal-cop. - - - - Instead of police contacting the NPCs located at a turf, they would use the Snitch NPC. The Snitch in-character is a long-term drug addict who has flexible loyalties to either side. Snitch Location Various static locations around the ghetto areas of Los Santos, but with enough locations so people can't automatically assume that's where the snitch will be exactly. The location will change pretty regularly to keep people guessing. Snitch Contact The snitch would be in possession of a burner phone. Depending on the snitch's allegiance at that particular time, the snitch might turn off their phone altogether, provide false information to the un-favoured side or even refuse to tell the unfavoured side where they are. Investigations Bureau would be able to run a trace on the phone if it was on to find the snitch. Criminals and Cops would be able to contact the snitch for their location via text message. Snitch Interaction Interacting with the snitch would be done in person. When interacting with the snitch, you can either choose to bribe or threaten the snitch. Only official criminal faction members or members of the Investigations Bureau/PD Command+ would be able to interact with the snitch. Criminal Factions would be able to set what rank can interact with the Snitch NPC. The Snitch NPC could be interacted with by PD and each criminal faction every 30 minutes and once a snitch is interacted with, in person, they will move locations. Every criminal faction would have a different relationship with the snitch NPC. The snitch would have an allegiance level, which ranges from being Pro-PD/Anti Your Faction to Anti-PD/Pro Your Faction on a scale of 1-100. Example Extremely Pro PD(0) Neutral(50) Extremely Pro-Azteca(100) | - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - | The snitch would have a risk level, depending on how many drugs and money they had at them at that time. The snitch would also have a threat level, which would go up and down depending on their recent interactions. Bribing will lower it, over time it will decrease but threatening them will instantly raise it significantly. Example Calm (0) Stressed (50) Terrified(100) | - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - | The allegiance, risk and threat levels would never be visible to any side, so you would have to stay on top of how your faction treats the Snitch. For example, if the Snitch has better allegiance to the Triads than the PD but the PD have better standing with the Snitch than Aztecas, the snitch would be more likely to help PD against Aztecas than against the Triads. When bribing, criminals can either use money or drugs to alter the snitch's allegiance in their favour. Police would be able to use money but offer slightly more to alter the snitch's allegiance in their favour. Bribing the snitch will always positively influence the snitch to your side, but won't alter their state as significantly as threatening them. Bribing as a cop will have more chance for desired impact on allegiance than criminals. Investigations would have a set government budget for this, as they are a government funded faction. When threatening, as a criminal, you will need to have a gun drawn. You can threaten to rob them or threaten to seriously hurt them. - Threatening them if they have low risk will scare them but against you. This because they barely anything to lose and they would be more inclined to assist Police. - Threatening them if they have high risk will scare them in your favour. This because they have a lot to lose and they would be more inclined to assist your faction. The threat level will increase and the amount that allegiance will change will depend on their previous new threat level. Threatening the snitch as a criminal will have more chance for desired impact on allegiance than Police. If you threaten to seriously hurt them, they will not interact with the PD against your faction for thirty minutes but after that period, their allegiance will be extremely positive towards PD. When threatening as a cop, you can threaten to confiscate their items or you can threaten to arrest them. - Threatening them with item confiscation if they have low risk will scare them but against you. This because they barely anything to lose and they would be more inclined to assist criminals. - Threatening them if they have high risk will scare them in your favour. This because they have a lot to lose and they would be more inclined to assist Police. The threat level will increase and the amount that allegiance will change will depend on their previous new threat level. If you threaten to arrest them, they will not interact with that specific faction for thirty minutes but after that period, their allegiance will be extremely positive towards that faction. Snitch Information Essentially the point of having a snitch's allegiance to your faction is that you can have them working for you. In LSPD's case, this would be in terms of providing information about drop times and locations. The more loyal the snitch is to the PD, the more accurate the information will be. For example, a reasonably loyal snitch might provide information such as "Aztecas have a drop arriving on the south east sometime in the next half an hour" but the snitch being incredibly loyal to the PD would yield something like "Aztecas are expecting a shipment at the Docks in exactly 20 minutes time. " In the criminal's case, it would be about being able to keep your illicit activities quiet. For example, a reasonably loyal snitch to Aztecas might provide very vague information when questioned by Police like "Aztecas have a drop arriving in the next half an hour" but the snitch being very loyal to the Aztecas would might deny any knowledge of a shipment at all to the police and when contacted by the Aztecas, the snitch would reveal the cops were asking about it. Gaining knowledge from the Snitch will increase their threat level and will move positive allegiance towards neutral allegiance. If PD gain positive intel, it'll move towards neutral. If a criminal faction finds out PD were trying to find out about a drop, it'll move towards neutral. Finding out nothing will not impact your side's allegiance with the snitch at all. - - - Obviously a lot of reading there, but the idea is that it's built not only on buying information but also on fear and furthers the whole cat/mouse game between PD and criminals but on an individual faction level. If for instance, Triads play it smart and Aztecas don't with the snitch, Aztecas will put their drops in danger.

I was in the LSPD Internal Affairs for a number of months and I've got to say, I never once felt like I'd done anyone a 'favour' with the outcomes and if anything, there were times where I was really disappointed in some of the things some officers had done. The vast majority of the faction are getting things correctly on a daily, but i'm not going to sit here and pretend that mistakes don't get made because they do. That being said, I think the severe bias isn't bias from the people handling the reports, it's that the burden of proof is on you as the reporter to have evidence of wrongdoing. Not only evidence but evidence that is correctly obtained in a role-play manner. Half the time evidence does get submitted, you can't use it IC either because it was gained OOC or the reporter doesn't have evidence that their recording device was on for example. Maybe you won't believe me and that's fine, but I will tell you, IA reports are taken very seriously and there is a lot of time and investigation that goes into it, to do it properly. --- --- I don't wish to comment on SD's Internal Affairs because I would have absolutely no idea about what i'm talking about. I don't know about their case-loads, their procedures or anything like that. As for PD, no-one in the faction can just invent charges to give you if you haven't done the crime in question. That's violating our OOC corruption policy but then what does happen quite a lot is that criminals will of course dispute that they did anything wrong or perhaps that the cop knew enough about them doing something wrong to charge them with it. It becomes a matter of opinion, not a matter of fact. If you have evidence, they are in no position to deny anything. Evidence is everything when it comes to IA. --- You're actually Wong there. Most Likely to get Suspended was actually a meme from our LSPD Awards we held back in April, because I'd done some stupid stuff and got myself into trouble but since people like yourself think it's a negative, I'll be removing it. I have never really been in trouble with IA, but I have been suspended from the PD on three occasions for doing some dumb shit, both IC and OOC. As someone that spent six months in IA, your comment is actually really misinformed. You might not of personally got an outcome that you wanted or a report handled in the way that you wanted, but considering LSPD's IA is ran by two Senior Admins and long time members of the PD, I would suggest that they're probably better placed to decide what's legitimate and not than either you or I.

I'm not sure that us showing what we do OOC is as important or relevant to showing it on LifeInvader for example. I think perhaps maybe it is better that we try and keep OOC and IC as far apart as possible. In terms of the "just IA" attitude, what I would say is that you have an opportunity to exercise your IC right to have your charges reviewed in-game by a superior rank. I've been to a few scenes where someone asked for a supervisor. Sometimes it does get solved, because people just want to make sure they are going in for what they've done, nothing more or less but then other times, people are just trying to get out of the charges and won't accept any other outcome. In which case, an IA report is the last chance for you to defend yourself. Sometimes superiors are not available or the situation is dangerous to the point where at that moment, you can't wait around for someone to show up but you have certain rights as a civilian in Los Santos. It's up to you IC to use those rights.

You are basically asking OOC for us to allow you to break an IC law though? What is it exactly about parking in the lot, that ruins the experience so much for you?

I'm not sure that hashtags and insults is the right way to go on this, so let's not go assigning blame on people. Now that being said, I did think perhaps losing the Zetas might shake things up a little bit, but I don't know if I see the same kind of presence from the newer factions than the older factions. I would love to see that change. That being said, hopefully when Osvaldon drops the upcoming update, people visiting and posting on this thread will have more of a positive outlook!

I've been experiencing this as well.