Way too many cops, CrimRP sorely lacking content.

[MrUntouchable215]

I just want to genuinely put it out there because I feel like this needs to be spoken about on a much deeper level. My intention isn't to trash talk anyone, but to have a civil discussion on the current state of things. Personally, I just feel like there are way too many cops and way too little content for Crims to keep up. Official Crim factions have our member limit reduced to 60, while PD has 100+ and SD has over 30+. It's starting to feel like criminalRP is being left in the dust, while PD gets buffed time and time again, and I really just want to figure out what the intentions are here. Why are we limited to 60 members and why can PD recruit unlimited? I just want to understand this, so I'd appreciate an answer on that one.

Currently, drug labs are almost impossible to use because of SD and PD presence. Labs are down very often and SD tends to patrol chopshop. The current content criminals have, we're struggling very hard to even use. It's getting to the point where we're almost forced to kill each other in drones, because there's quite literally nothing else to do. There's only so much social RP one can have until they start genuinely getting bored. I apologize for the lack of detail in this discussion, perhaps some people can help me out on this and shed light on what I'm trying to say. (Really bad headache)

It's breaking my heart to see CrimRP left in such a state and it's starting to feel like if we're not out shooting every other criminal, there's nothing else for us to do. It's either CoD simulator, socialRP or shooting waves of cops. What can we do as a community to fix this?

In the course of 30-40 minutes, north lab got pushed in, a fight broke out at LSD and chopshop was raided by cops. What is going on?

Edited January 25, 2020 by MrUntouchable215

[TheCactus]

Play on OCE timezone (9am to 02pm UTC) and you'll see 2 cops online and at least 5 members per official criminal faction. Can't answer to 50% of the 911 calls cause outnumbered.
There are too many cops online on EU timezone (05-06pm to 00 UTC), a fair amount on US timezone and 1 to 3 max on OCE.
They should focus on recruiting less EU and more everything else.

(These are not random numbers. I have a fucked up sleeping schedule during exams and I can check /fmembers)

New rules for drug labs should also be introduced. Seeing them going down cause of a 911 call from a dude on a BF400 is sad.

Edited January 25, 2020 by TheCactus

[alexalex303]

I think a very strong contributor to this is script support.

Legal/Civ got a very strong patch, and then Criminal patch is still being worked on.

There's a lot of ideas, and a lot of great server suggestions, but none are in right now, and I feel that a new patch could solve a lot of issues.

Just imagine all of those relatively straight-forward and detailed suggestions implemented in a patch tomorrow. 

Edited January 25, 2020 by alexalex303

[TheCactus]

9 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

I think a very strong contributor to this is script support.

Legal/Civ got a very strong patch, and then Criminal patch is still being worked on.

There's a lot of ideas, and a lot of great server suggestions, but none are in right now, and I feel that a new patch could solve a lot of issues.

Just imagine all of those relatively straight-forward and detailed suggestions implemented in a patch tomorrow. 

Couldn't agree more. I left the crim RP 8 months ago cause it was too repetitive. I tried getting back to it 1 month ago but it's still the same.

The only differences are rules that have changed and foundry/mines/butchers as new places where you can rob people and start fights (shootouts at the foundry are lit) but that isn't exactly what I was waiting for.

I might've missed some minor changes to crim RP because they are minor/not very relevant.

[Martin Tulip]

Here's my opinion.

 

Crims don't recruit much everything is very much within the gang and any budding crim wanting to join a gang can find it daunting to approach these gangs to be part of the fun. Most civilians whether they are crim or not are seen as outsiders by the major gangs. 

 

Gangs are also factionalised leaving very little content for gang v gang sort of stuff. I've witnessed gangs helping other gangs on multiple occasions which is fine however it does detract from content like turf wars and fighting over labs. I've seen three gangs all helping each other run labs once. 

 

Some of the larger gangs also rob whoever they see. I can see how this would put off new players who want to crim RP from joining a gang. Imagine being in the server for about a month working on your crim wanting to join a gang and fly some colours only to be robbed by that gang. OOC you get pissed make a legal alt to get revenge and join PD forgetting about any crim activities you wanted to partake in. 

I think it's a 50/50 issue 50% IC for gangs not really letting outsiders in to bolster numbers 50% OOC scripting issues. 

[kenichis]

1 hour ago, Martin Tulip said:

Here's my opinion.

 

Crims don't recruit much everything is very much within the gang and any budding crim wanting to join a gang can find it daunting to approach these gangs to be part of the fun. Most civilians whether they are crim or not are seen as outsiders by the major gangs. 

 

Gangs are also factionalised leaving very little content for gang v gang sort of stuff. I've witnessed gangs helping other gangs on multiple occasions which is fine however it does detract from content like turf wars and fighting over labs. I've seen three gangs all helping each other run labs once. 

 

Some of the larger gangs also rob whoever they see. I can see how this would put off new players who want to crim RP from joining a gang. Imagine being in the server for about a month working on your crim wanting to join a gang and fly some colours only to be robbed by that gang. OOC you get pissed make a legal alt to get revenge and join PD forgetting about any crim activities you wanted to partake in. 

I think it's a 50/50 issue 50% IC for gangs not really letting outsiders in to bolster numbers 50% OOC scripting issues. 

I'm guessing you're still pretty new to the server. Gang VS Gang action almost always happen. I mean right now even there is still a gang at war.

A lot of the bigger gangs tend not to rob legal workers (taxis, medics, etc.) so robbing everyone isn't really true. I've had some times when some randoms were trying to rob me as a medic and a big gang showed up and actually defended me.

Edited January 25, 2020 by kenichis

[Martin Tulip]

11 minutes ago, kenichis said:

I'm guessing you're still pretty new to the server. Gang VS Gang action almost always happen. I mean right now even there is still a gang at war.

A lot of the bigger gangs tend not to rob legal workers (taxis, medics, etc.) so robbing everyone isn't really true. I've had some times when some randoms were trying to rob me as a medic and a big gang showed up and actually defended me.

I should probably add I play off peak OCE times so maybe this varies based in time zone

[kenichis]

15 minutes ago, Martin Tulip said:

I should probably add I play off peak OCE times so maybe this varies based in time zone

ASIA here so its not much different than OCE.

[reeceobz]

The 60 member cap on official criminal factions makes no sense in my opinion, it should be Law Enforcement that is capped. IRL a police department would only be able to recruit a certain amount of people and they would only be able to work a certain amount of hours due to funding, However IRL This isn't the case for criminals because they aren't funded by a government they work from the ground up, Yea they might pay there members but its not as if they HAVE to. I've seen a lot of friends go to PD from crim because lets face it crim life is same shit day in day out. Your bored? Lets go check labs, oh the lab has been raided by PD. What about Chopshop? Nope SD already there sat on the hill watching down because there is a apparent bolo. Im not saying these things to slander any faction I'm saying this because its what happens on a day to day basis. There is only so much people can take until they get sick and tired of it and they either make a alt and sign up to a legal job or leave the server completely. Something has to change.

[Machete]

Maybe you should be more selective and only recruit active people to your gang, barely see any zetas around anymore.  About PD getting buffed, A lot of the new vehicles are broken as fuck and no cruiser can keep up with a lot of them. However when there's a heli on you you're fucked.

 

Without the 60 player cap there would be a lot less small gangs

 

Comet retro goes 300

novak is ridiculously fast

kamacho accelerates as fast as a drag somehow and rams better then a SWAT truck

paragon R's acceleration and traction is just ridiculous as fuck

Drag turns like nothing else even though its a stretch bike made for drag races. (IRL it turns like shit (search hayabusa stretch))

 

You have access to the most overpowered vehicles and yet you complain? Law enforcement always wins IRL and so it should here.

 

PD seal clubs gangs and zetas and triads seal club the smaller gangs as its always been. 

[TheCactus]

50 minutes ago, reeceobz said:

The 60 member cap on official criminal factions makes no sense in my opinion, it should be Law Enforcement that is capped. IRL a police department would only be able to recruit a certain amount of people and they would only be able to work a certain amount of hours due to funding, However IRL This isn't the case for criminals because they aren't funded by a government they work from the ground up, Yea they might pay there members but its not as if they HAVE to. I've seen a lot of friends go to PD from crim because lets face it crim life is same shit day in day out. Your bored? Lets go check labs, oh the lab has been raided by PD. What about Chopshop? Nope SD already there sat on the hill watching down because there is a apparent bolo. Im not saying these things to slander any faction I'm saying this because its what happens on a day to day basis. There is only so much people can take until they get sick and tired of it and they either make a alt and sign up to a legal job or leave the server completely. Something has to change.

Managing the faction with the people we have and keeping the high standards is already pretty hard with all the supervisors (and higher) we have already. People who manage the faction (command+) dedicate a huge amount of OOC hours to manage all the divisions (mostly training for new officers, monitoring IC performance, RP standards and OOC attitude). Limitating PD (I don't know much about the other LSEMS factions + DOC) would not be healthy for the faction itself.

In my opinion, SD needs more members and if they will ever have to cap the max members for PD, the current minimum requirement of 5 hours per week and at least 50% ratio would raise drastically and honestly, I have a life out of Eclipse.

I do agree with you tho: Crim RP needs more things you can actually do, not only to earn money but to have fun. Something has to change.

Edited January 25, 2020 by TheCactus
Details

[Msato]

4 hours ago, Martin Tulip said:

Here's my opinion.

 

Crims don't recruit much everything is very much within the gang and any budding crim wanting to join a gang can find it daunting to approach these gangs to be part of the fun. Most civilians whether they are crim or not are seen as outsiders by the major gangs. 

 

Gangs are also factionalised leaving very little content for gang v gang sort of stuff. I've witnessed gangs helping other gangs on multiple occasions which is fine however it does detract from content like turf wars and fighting over labs. I've seen three gangs all helping each other run labs once. 

 

Some of the larger gangs also rob whoever they see. I can see how this would put off new players who want to crim RP from joining a gang. Imagine being in the server for about a month working on your crim wanting to join a gang and fly some colours only to be robbed by that gang. OOC you get pissed make a legal alt to get revenge and join PD forgetting about any crim activities you wanted to partake in. 

I think it's a 50/50 issue 50% IC for gangs not really letting outsiders in to bolster numbers 50% OOC scripting issues. 

Sorry but what exactly do you mean by gangs don't recruit? Talking for myself we have an entire team dedicated to recruitment, and have a long refined process - probably even further refined than that of the legal faction recruitment. Approach people IC and pass their tests IC if you fit. At the end of the day criminal factions are player founded and not script based so they require a more personal touch and aspects when it comes to recruiting people for them. I personally would never recruit someone who I wouldn't get along with. 

This whole all gangs are allied mentality needs to stop. Only Triads & Zetas are allied out of the larger gangs and we actually helped organise criminal activity and put some form of an end to the mindless fighting. There are systems in place that you would only discover being apart of a criminal faction who interacts with us which actually provide rp and reason to force gangs to cook in labs etc. Why shouldn't two big gangs work together when they formed their relationship over a year of working with each other? 

Criminal life is how it is, if you don't represent the correct team you will likely run into issues. Again only talking for my group alone, we. Rarely go out robbing solo runners etc unless you have provoked a reaction from us. 

There is no IC issue for no criminal roleplay, other than the 140~ law enforcement members who are crazily active. In fact there's plenty of internal roleplay within and between gangs but beyond that it feels like we have to force out roleplay in some areas. It's a script issue that we're lacking support in comparison to other sections, and the solution is in the works to this. 

[Msato]

20 minutes ago, TheCactus said:

Managing the faction with the people we have and keeping the high standards is already pretty hard with all the supervisors (and higher) we have already. People who manage the faction (command+) dedicate a huge amount of OOC hours to manage all the divisions (mostly training for new officers, monitoring IC performance, RP standards and OOC attitude). Limitating PD (I don't know much about the other LSEMS factions + DOC) would not be healthy for the faction itself.

Sorry but I may be interpreting this incorrectly, 

Are you saying criminals barely manage in comparison to legal factions? If so try experiencing being a higherup of a criminal faction and experience the level of work we commit to running a fully player based faction. 

We unfortunately don't have the script support that legal factions do for management along with the fact that criminals are not allowed to make use of any content out with what they have in game, whereas legal factions have discords, forums etc all to assist IC management. 

On an OOC pov for management I feel that faction management could comment on the effort most criminal factions put in when running their gang.

There is nothing lacking about the management and we should be allowed to expand over 60 members should the gang adequately perform at greater numbers. Talking for Triads, we've always intentionally limited our numbers to around 40 members, as that is what we see as a good fit for us. I can still understand why others want to expand beyond 60.

[JakeInnit_]

Everything Flint described above is the sole reason I near enough quit being criminal.

[Riderz]

Criminal RP is in dire need of updates an functionality support as to give their RP both purpose an reason. To encourage competition and character development, story development within their organization. Towards the Cap does makes sense as yes the LSPD does have more upward members, but when looking at the following aides in why caps are semi-necessary: 

Gangs overall have grander numbers despite the capacity limit; All you needed to do is check alliances. Example; We arrested anyone of the allied gang members an the following retaliation is seen (This will be with projected  numbers) - Let's say 12-13 zeta's reinforced, 11-12 triads reinforced, 4-5 WCA reinforce,  3-6 Rooks reinforce, Misfits 2-4. Overall on a low ball number that's 32 people whom can possibly respond to any backup call; to whom let say 70% overall has a heavy weapons present's compared to perhaps 40%  of PD whom have similar. This is why makes it hard to sometimes be an Officer of Law; as in most cases the odds are stacked against those favors. Typical arugement given is our advantage with vest; but most times when we are engaged we are hit when we do not expect it; making the vest unusable in those scenarios as it's gone before we noticed we are engaged.

Example: Respond to a store robbery at 6-9AM you'll more then likely see two people rob the store, who will make a radio call out getting 7-11 reinforcements liberating their  members compared to 3 cops on at those times, who can't possibly resist their demands. In some of those cases; we are chased down despite fleeing and are sequentially engaged. 

A balance must be achieved as at the moment many things are not balanced in terms of response to issues, this be giving criminals incentives to want to compete with one another, reason(s) to not wish to crash with law enforcement and actives/goals for them to focus on separate from general duties.

[Amaim]

I agree that some changes needs to happen but regarding repetition of roleplay I see it as the responsibility of illegal factions to create roleplay for themselves; no script is ever gonna solve the current repetitive nature of criminal roleplay.

If your gang/faction doesn't provide you roleplay opportunities and just go around robbing people & cooking drugs then leave them and join another faction that cares about roleplay and create roleplay opportunities for their members (if no faction at the moment does so, create your own... I know it's easier to say than do it). but lack of roleplay in illegal factions is 100% the responsibility of the faction leaders, they are responsible to set a standard for their members and create roleplay scenarios for them. (having a standard is gonna attract members who create roleplay for themselves, their faction and the opposing factions).

 

Regarding script support I agree that criminals script is pretty basic and requires a lot of improvements which are already suggested in several suggestions; like:

 

 

Edited January 25, 2020 by Amaim

[tommy hutchingson]

to many cops yet people still getting robbed only thing ive noticed thats a bid norty when chases happen theres like 15 cars 6 bikes on 1 car at most counted 

Edited January 25, 2020 by tommy hutchingson

[flow]

You are looking at this from the wrong perspective. The problem isn't too many cops, because you will never ever see these numbers online at once. The issue is the lack of things to do for criminals. Taking some cops away will not increase your roleplay. You are still bound to the current limits. You need to make this a crimrp vs. lack of things to do thread, not a crims vs cops thread, that won't go anywhere.

[alexalex303]

1 hour ago, flow said:

You are looking at this from the wrong perspective. The problem isn't too many cops, because you will never ever see these numbers online at once. The issue is the lack of things to do for criminals. Taking some cops away will not increase your roleplay. You are still bound to the current limits. You need to make this a crimrp vs. lack of things to do thread, not a crims vs cops thread, that won't go anywhere.

You do however understand that the current script options (drug labs, chop shops) being literally flooded with cops is an issue too. 

[MrUntouchable215]

6 hours ago, NM369 said:

Maybe you should be more selective and only recruit active people to your gang, barely see any zetas around anymore.  About PD getting buffed, A lot of the new vehicles are broken as fuck and no cruiser can keep up with a lot of them. However when there's a heli on you you're fucked.

 

Without the 60 player cap there would be a lot less small gangs

 

Comet retro goes 300

novak is ridiculously fast

kamacho accelerates as fast as a drag somehow and rams better then a SWAT truck

paragon R's acceleration and traction is just ridiculous as fuck

Drag turns like nothing else even though its a stretch bike made for drag races. (IRL it turns like shit (search hayabusa stretch))

 

You have access to the most overpowered vehicles and yet you complain? Law enforcement always wins IRL and so it should here.

 

PD seal clubs gangs and zetas and triads seal club the smaller gangs as its always been. 

You missed the entire point of this thread. It does not matter how fast your cars are or vice versa. Zetas are a very active group and if you don't see us, you're likely inactive yourself. The point is the amount of cops and the lack of content we have. Saying "Recruit more people" is like saying we should start killing cops 24/7. Make no mistake, criminals have one common enemy, PD. We could easily band together, sit at a lab and wait for PD to show up in order to smoke everyone there, but we're not petty enough to do that. I'm saying there's too much PD interaction these days and the only thing we're complaining about is the massive amounts of numbers you guys have in comparison to the content we currently have.

 

Criminals are just having a hard time using the content we have, a really hard one and that's all. I have zero issues with PD being stronger than criminals and I'm sure we're all tired of the PD vs Crim attitude on the server. I don't get irked about being arrested, I get irked about not being able to use the only content we have to make money outside of legal activities. PD will be stronger than individual crims, that's a no brainer, it's scripted to be that way. I'm saying it isn't reasonable for SD to camp chop and labs 24/7 and us not even having the ability to rebuild the lab, we have to wait hours. Believe it or not, we don't want to go around killing cops 24/7, it's what stopped our ability to get official the first time around. 

Edited January 25, 2020 by MrUntouchable215

[flow]

2 hours ago, alexalex303 said:

You do however understand that the current script options (drug labs, chop shops) being literally flooded with cops is an issue too. 

If you and any other gang have issues with anything our members do, I know that myself and I am sure Osborn too, are okay with you sending us a quick message with the problem and we'll deal with it. Neither PD nor SD encourage people to camp labs and chops, so if that happens we need to know. Ideally by whom. And we will act. Certain faction leaders do message me from time to time with issues on discord and we talk about them and I do try to resolve them.

[Heso Thic]

6 hours ago, JakeInnit_ said:

Everything Flint described above is the sole reason I near enough quit being criminal.

Who’s flint on the forums?

[Heso Thic]

The reason this server lacks crime RP is because all of the big gangs don’t mess with each other. The yellow and blue gang  get along and as far as I am aware the blue ones do what they want 

[MrUntouchable215]

9 minutes ago, Heso Thic said:

The reason this server lacks crime RP is because all of the big gangs don’t mess with each other. The yellow and blue gang  get along and as far as I am aware the blue ones do what they want 

But you see, that's my point in this post. This basically forces us to fight everyone and that isn't crimeRP, that's CoD simulator. Everyone that mentions that type of RP legit just wants someone to shoot 24/7 and while that's fine, that does not cover the entirety of criminalRP and I'm almost positive that isn't something staff wants, or the direction they want the server to even go. By all means, we could just war with everyone, but is that really something every criminal wants? If so, speak on it now, if that's the only thing we all desire, so we can stop pretending. I'm flint btw

Edited January 25, 2020 by MrUntouchable215

[JakeInnit_]

24 minutes ago, Heso Thic said:

Who’s flint on the forums?

MrUntouchable215