Way too many cops, CrimRP sorely lacking content.

[Felcon]

I think some kind off nerf for cops could fix this. With nerfs I mean stopping the MG from MDC so you can’t get charged with felony evading this easily and not allowing cops to have so much stuff. I’ve seen cops go around with 3 weapons a tazer and multiple heavies. They should be limited to a tazer, combat pistol and 1 heavy. One thing that would make it interesting too if official factions could get a 5-10% chance of knowing when PD gets shipment so they can try and intercept as they would get this information from an ‘inside’ mole 

[MrUntouchable215]

I think another issue and likely the main one is the attitude of the players when it comes down to it. This PD vs Crim mindset separates us and genuinely kills RP. We're on opposite sides and are ultimately enemies, but that mentality should not carry over oocly, rather we should try to be objective and non bias on what we think should happen. I have a question that I would like people to genuinely answer, there's no right or wrong answer, just state what you think you know.

PD/SD has:
Xrays
Swat
Insurgents and other armored vehicles.
High speed units
A GPS that shows every car around them, almost nullifying call outs to some extents.
Encrypted radiofreqs
Cruisers that go 230+
Carbines and almost every other gun criminals have other than Ak-47s and special imports. Sniper rifles, etc
Breach capabilties
Phone tracking
5% chance to intercept official gangs weapon import locations
NCZ headquarters
Body Armor
Get paid while doing all of this

Criminals have:
Drugs
Chopshop
Store robberies
Weapon imports for official gangs, shared between every other official gang
Warehouse and interiors
Fast cars
60 player capped faction, but unlimited if you aren't official (Which makes up for the cap in general if every gang suddenly decided to alliance themselves)
No treasury funding, other than IC actions that pay us, disallowing us from paying our members.
- We have to pay for all of our assets we use on a daily basis

If I missed something on both the criminal/PD end, I'd appreciate it if someone could help me fill in the blanks. None of this is a bad thing keep in mind, I'm listing this as to say "Let's start here" It makes sense that PD has the features they have. Now that it's out the way, let's stop comparing each other. We get it, PD is stronger, but how can we balance things a bit to benefit both sides equally? Your RP is our RP and vice versa, keep that in mind.

Edited January 25, 2020 by MrUntouchable215

[Flucifial]

There will never be too many cops. Criminals aren't supposed to get away with just about everything. 

 

Criminal content is lacking, though, that's something I agree with. 

[Bala]

At the end of the day, I think there are some underlying problems across the board that are hindering the server and since this is a discussion topic, I'll try and offer my insight into things. I've been very anti-criminal in the past, but once I made a criminal character and saw the other side of the community, it become apparent that there are some real flaws on both sides.

> SD being a thing, probably shouldn't been a thing. We didn't need it, we don't need 146 police on a 250 population server. During the day, being in PD for activity is actually quite boring. If criminals are curious why SD bothers the labs and the chopshops so much, it's the same reason PD bothered the zeta store on Clinton Avenue so much, because we've spread things too thin trying to justify an expansion we didn't need. There are some good cops in SD, bring them over to PD and let them do highway patrol, then we can thin the herd of those cops in PD and SD that aren't up to scratch. It might be a roleplay server, but you have to supplement the meagre level roleplay you get from criminals here with gunfights and police chases.

> The lack of development is a problem period, not just for criminals but in general. I'm grateful for the bug fixes but they aren't anything anyone is getting excited over. The suggestions forum has some really good suggestions but it's a meme at this point. There is never any feedback from those in charge about them, it's actually a pointless exercise.

> Prison is the worst place on the server for roleplay. We can never and will never have a stable faction for the prison while it is the way it is. It reminds me of Sona from Prison Break, the guards stay outside while the inmates run the asylum. There is very little roleplay going on in there and sending someone there for hours.. you might as well take the admin jail. It is literally like the rules don't apply in there. People don't give a shit either because there is no reward system for good behaviour once inside and no punishment system for bad behaviour. 

> Uncapping Prison times was a colossal mistake as well and they should be recapped.

> In terms of the Zetas and the Triads. I really ain't surprised that you are bored and I have respect for your factions but that's kind of as much your fault as it is PD hassling you or you not getting the criminal update. You guys turned on The Wanted and forced an active faction out of the server for role-play reasons and for what? There is literally no-one left that is going to be stupid enough to oppose you and that is very, very bad for the scene. Because you don't fight Zetas and you don't fight Triads, you fight them both. Something that at times even PD with all our goodies struggle to do. I know that there is role-play to support it and you can't just start fighting each other but i've said this before but no gang in the city should be allying up, it should be about you and your gangs alone.

I think the simple fact is that PD/SD and The Council probably see each other as their only adversaries now. If PD wants to shut down any of the other factions, we can quite easy. When it's Zetas and/or Triads, then it's a challenge. Same thing goes for Zetas or Triads, when you guys were hunting The Wanted or even the Russians, it wasn't anywhere near the opposition that you get from PD. You need us and we need you the way things are.

> The WCA/NLA war that is going on right now. In terms of activity, it's probably been the best thing to happen to both factions. In terms of the membership quality, the roleplay and the OOC standing in the server, it's probably been the worst thing. NLA have been jettisoned by the faction management team and WCA seem to catch their fair share of reports too. The thing about reports in this server is that it's not actually whether you are guilty or not that matters, it's the perception.

> In terms of quality roleplay, this server isn't setup for it right now. Factions are about colours and/or numbers. People openly discuss criminal acts, they commit criminal acts in broad daylight, they are masked up constantly and riding around armed to the teeth. We actually had an official faction on this server CHAIN ROBBING police officers a few nights ago. The ones that can roleplay look at it and say "Fuck it, if that's what we have to do to make it, we'll do that instead." -- People wonder why they get raided. In my opinion, I don't know a lot about what the Investigations Bureau does but if they are any good, you guys make it way too fucking easy for them.

> The use of /do. Constantly asking someone if they resist and getting them to answer you every time is legitimately retarded. It doesn't lead to good roleplaying scenarios at all. If you want good role-play, start using /me more. Describe your actions in detail, describe your environment.

> Stop playing the rules and play your damn character. I'd rather roleplay with Darius Bivins scratching his nutsack or Karen trying to peel the flesh off my face with her knife than be on my criminal character with RoboCop #1 and RoboCop #2 or be on my PD character roleplaying with Joseph Jerkoff who thinks the sum of criminal roleplay is to call me a bald nonce and say the n word profusely.

Ultimately, we need someone in the community to grab these situations by the bollocks and give things a good hard squeeze. Threads like these are a dime a dozen but things don't ever change and we never actually get any feedback.

Edited January 25, 2020 by GOAT

[PersianWariorr]

On 1/25/2020 at 11:18 PM, MrUntouchable215 said:

 

If I missed something on both the criminal/PD end, I'd appreciate it if someone could help me fill in the blanks. None of this is a bad thing keep in mind, I'm listing this as to say "Let's start here" It makes sense that PD has the features they have. Now that it's out the way, let's stop comparing each other. We get it, PD is stronger, but how can we balance things a bit to benefit both sides equally? Your RP is our RP and vice versa, keep that in mind.

i think they have permission to decline ur death rp

[PersianWariorr]

i dont any problem with official system but everything was started when this project started, 

less gangs, no turfs and shared gun system, less ammo and gun

Edited January 27, 2020 by PersianWariorr

[Qiang]

On 1/25/2020 at 9:36 AM, Hoxton_Curry said:

Felt like 70% of cars I’ve seen in the city were PD cruisers a few weeks ago and I thought it would die down just like it always does but then a day later they opened recruitment, imo something should change because currently there is way too many cops and its worse than ever

sorry but every time i play in the server is just 4 cops on duty and server have around 120 player online 

[moment]

Ngl, cops roleplay has been poorly lacking.

[SamuelGunn]

I think creators don't really care about  the server anymore and just are happy with constant cashflow since they put nothing to the server, lets be serious some bug fixes in few months is nothing. 

SD should not be a thing in the first place
Unlimited prison times should've never been a thing in the first place, people don't get this is just a game

And such tension between PD and Crims kills all fun since noone RP's for fun anymore but just to win since there's such a big stake for Crims if they get caught.

[moment]

18 minutes ago, SamuelGunn said:

I think creators don't really care about  the server anymore and just are happy with constant cashflow since they put nothing to the server, lets be serious some bug fixes in few months is nothing. 

SD should not be a thing in the first place
Unlimited prison times should've never been a thing in the first place, people don't get this is just a game

And such tension between PD and Crims kills all fun since noone RP's for fun anymore but just to win since there's such a big stake for Crims if they get caught.

Ey man you gotta chillout as I work in the industry of software development myself, it's not easy to just fix bugs and create a certain feature just by snapping fingers. Time is needed for testing, evulation and maintenance.

Edited January 28, 2020 by PhenomenalX

[HobGoblin]

On 1/25/2020 at 7:48 PM, MrUntouchable215 said:

I think another issue and likely the main one is the attitude of the players when it comes down to it. This PD vs Crim mindset separates us and genuinely kills RP. We're on opposite sides and are ultimately enemies, but that mentality should not carry over oocly, rather we should try to be objective and non bias on what we think should happen. I have a question that I would like people to genuinely answer, there's no right or wrong answer, just state what you think you know.

PD/SD has:
Xrays
Swat
Insurgents and other armored vehicles.
High speed units
A GPS that shows every car around them, almost nullifying call outs to some extents.
Encrypted radiofreqs
Cruisers that go 230+
Carbines and almost every other gun criminals have other than Ak-47s and special imports. Sniper rifles, etc
Breach capabilties
Phone tracking
5% chance to intercept official gangs weapon import locations
NCZ headquarters
Body Armor
Get paid while doing all of this

Criminals have:
Drugs
Chopshop
Store robberies
Weapon imports for official gangs, shared between every other official gang
Warehouse and interiors
Fast cars
60 player capped faction, but unlimited if you aren't official (Which makes up for the cap in general if every gang suddenly decided to alliance themselves)
No treasury funding, other than IC actions that pay us, disallowing us from paying our members.
- We have to pay for all of our assets we use on a daily basis

If I missed something on both the criminal/PD end, I'd appreciate it if someone could help me fill in the blanks. None of this is a bad thing keep in mind, I'm listing this as to say "Let's start here" It makes sense that PD has the features they have. Now that it's out the way, let's stop comparing each other. We get it, PD is stronger, but how can we balance things a bit to benefit both sides equally? Your RP is our RP and vice versa, keep that in mind.

You mentioned the PD vs Crim mindset. I agree with you but other people do try to Roleplay a normal citizen but they’ll go mining or hunting only to get robbed by some criminal who’s waiting at the foundry or butchers.  This makes it hard for anyone to be a normal working person as some gang will always be there waiting to rob you or house raid you. 

[Bala]

On 1/25/2020 at 1:54 PM, flow said:

You are looking at this from the wrong perspective. The problem isn't too many cops, because you will never ever see these numbers online at once. The issue is the lack of things to do for criminals. Taking some cops away will not increase your roleplay. You are still bound to the current limits. You need to make this a crimrp vs. lack of things to do thread, not a crims vs cops thread, that won't go anywhere.

It won't go anywhere because sometimes we're ignorant to admit we're could be a problem. The issue isn't just numbers, it's coverage. Like with a lot of the features that get added, the full consequences aren't always considered. We shoehorned Sheriff's Department to Blaine County but that's where the majority of the criminal enterprises are. I'm not sure it was needed, it was a more a passion project.

Not only do we then increase our numbers, we increase our map coverage. You were in PD before, you'd get the odd car out there but most people would be in the city until there was a call about a lab/chop shop. Which would even then give the criminals an extra few minutes to get in, do their stuff and get out.

Now you have cops all over the city because they can't exit LS without permission and you've got Sheriffs in the county, but then they are patrolling areas where the criminal enterprises are (not necessarily inside) because there isn't much else going on out there besides farming.

In addition, we are essentially sharing the same recruitment pool for both PD/SD and people are choosing between them, so the quality of applicant for PD/SD is more thinly spread and as a result, standards inevitably do drop a little. Who feels that standard drop the most? The criminals.

There are other issues in the server, but cops are a part of it, whether we'll admit it or not.

[MrUntouchable215]

3 hours ago, HobGoblin said:

You mentioned the PD vs Crim mindset. I agree with you but other people do try to Roleplay a normal citizen but they’ll go mining or hunting only to get robbed by some criminal who’s waiting at the foundry or butchers.  This makes it hard for anyone to be a normal working person as some gang will always be there waiting to rob you or house raid you. 

The thing is, the people you speak of aren't exactly a 'gang' as people call it. They're 'Jack boys' and they will always exist. When I was still a baby in town, before Zetas even existed, I was out doing petty shit like robbing pauls farm and such and yet, when you join one of these gangs like WCA, Aztecas, Rooks, Zetas and triads, that mindset changes and you're no longer able to do such things. These guys you speak of aren't part of any organization or gang, they're simply snatchers. Next time you see one, just yell "Swiper no swiping!" and that should do the trick.

[HobGoblin]

15 minutes ago, MrUntouchable215 said:

The thing is, the people you speak of aren't exactly a 'gang' as people call it. They're 'Jack boys' and they will always exist. When I was still a baby in town, before Zetas even existed, I was out doing petty shit like robbing pauls farm and such and yet, when you join one of these gangs like WCA, Aztecas, Rooks, Zetas and triads, that mindset changes and you're no longer able to do such things. These guys you speak of aren't part of any organization or gang, they're simply snatchers. Next time you see one, just yell "Swiper no swiping!" and that should do the trick.

Iv seen the Official gangs do what Iv said above. Especially at the butchers. 

[MrUntouchable215]

4 minutes ago, HobGoblin said:

Iv seen the Official gangs do what Iv said above. Especially at the butchers. 

You should be going to these gangs icly and speaking on it, help fix the problem. This is basically an OOC/IC agreement that it isnt allowed unless it's another gang going there to drop off human meat. We want to keep ourselves away from civRP as much as possible unless we really have reason to interfere. Extortion, bans, etc

As a person who spent a lot of time in the middle of CivRP, this is something I instinctively urge to protect. I was lead supervisor at LSC and would have been co owner if I took off the blue. I even tried to work for state government, so there's a soft spot there for me. Before Crim and PD, I will always advocate for better civRP first, because it's the life's blood of the server.

Edited January 28, 2020 by MrUntouchable215

[moment]

Oh forgot to mention, not rp related much but the most annoying part and such a pisstake, you call the cops to get your car from the impound they either take 1 hour to respond or drive next to you honk you and keep driving just for the lolz. Not all the force but you get my point, even if it's 10 percent of the cop force that does this still reflects the police force in a bad shape.

Edited January 29, 2020 by PhenomenalX

[Nova Zhou]

On 1/25/2020 at 11:57 AM, Heso Thic said:

Who’s flint on the forums?

@MrUntouchable215

[Dirty Mike]

On 1/24/2020 at 10:15 PM, TheCactus said:

Play on OCE timezone (9am to 02pm UTC) and you'll see 2 cops online and at least 5 members per official criminal faction. Can't answer to 50% of the 911 calls cause outnumbered.
There are too many cops online on EU timezone (05-06pm to 00 UTC), a fair amount on US timezone and 1 to 3 max on OCE.
They should focus on recruiting less EU and more everything else.

(These are not random numbers. I have a fucked up sleeping schedule during exams and I can check /fmembers)

New rules for drug labs should also be introduced. Seeing them going down cause of a 911 call from a dude on a BF400 is sad.

That's real life dude,  maybe if the gangs stopped robbing solo people at the drug labs they wouldn't have that problem, but you reap what you sow, and that's the risk, you want to make 15k fast? well their is risk involved in that otherwise get a normal job 

[PersianWariorr]

On 1/25/2020 at 9:45 AM, TheCactus said:

Play on OCE timezone (9am to 02pm UTC) and you'll see 2 cops online and at least 5 members per official criminal faction. Can't answer to 50% of the 911 calls cause outnumbered.
There are too many cops online on EU timezone (05-06pm to 00 UTC), a fair amount on US timezone and 1 to 3 max on OCE.
They should focus on recruiting less EU and more everything else.

(These are not random numbers. I have a fucked up sleeping schedule during exams and I can check /fmembers)

New rules for drug labs should also be introduced. Seeing them going down cause of a 911 call from a dude on a BF400 is sad.

on tehran/middle east timezone it was around 2 or maximum 4 cops in server in 2k18 and that wasnt good for random people, but it was good for gangs and us, and actually i saw more than 25pd on eu timezone, that was big issue but i dont know what is going now, and i think u are right they shouldnt recruit lot of people on eu timezone 

[Msato]

Play it by timezon or not, there are far too many PD online during peak server time. 

Last Sunday there was 48 PD online alone, not including SD. 

Criminals face a recruitment cap on their gangs of 60 members, there should be a set limit for all Factions not only criminals.

It creates another unrequired cap and bias against criminals on the server. 

[Philo]

You got Rooks, Zetas, WCA, Wanted, Misfits, NLA, Triads, Fogcity and you only have PD+SD... What do you mean? You top PD at almost all time in the city. It is a problem that criminals ONLY RP staying at their hood, hideouts and literally doing nothing but talk and joke about. 

[Osborn]

7 minutes ago, CallumMontie said:

Play it by timezon or not, there are far too many PD online during peak server time. 

Last Sunday there was 48 PD online alone, not including SD. 

Criminals face a recruitment cap on their gangs of 60 members, there should be a set limit for all Factions not only criminals.

It creates another unrequired cap and bias against criminals on the server. 

That's a bit taken out of context. We only had 48 members online because we have several scheduled things on Sundays. It's the day when people come online from all timezones to attend their IC meetings, you didn't have 48 members patrolling in the city.

• Supervisor Meeting
• Command Meeting
• SWAT Training
• Investigations Meeting

This has been the case for several months now. 

Recruitment for EU in PD is closed at the moment but we will continue to recruit for NA and OC as we lack members in those times. PD is expected to provide the server with 24/7 service to all players, PD is not expected to just focus on a single situation, they are meant to be able to take care of multiple situations at once.

[mexicanwave]

1 hour ago, Philo said:

You got Rooks, Zetas, WCA, Wanted, Misfits, NLA, Triads, Fogcity and you only have PD+SD... What do you mean? You top PD at almost all time in the city. It is a problem that criminals ONLY RP staying at their hood, hideouts and literally doing nothing but talk and joke about. 

That's because there's nothing else to do. Drug labs are down most of the time and chop shops get camped by PD/SD. Unless you want to spend 90% of your time online in prison, your only option is to try to create interesting RP within the gang.

While I can't speak for all gangs/Crims in the city I think your claim that all we do is "talk and joke about" takes away from the hard work that alot of people put in. For example, I know in the past couple week we (triads) have spent a significant amount of time creating engaging RP scenario's surrounding our HQ and I'm sure it you were to look at the forum threads of the other factions you would see plenty of interesting rp. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

[Bala]

I think it's important with discussions like this that it doesn't turn into a PD v. Criminal debate, because ultimately that leads nowhere but around in a circle.

In terms of having way too many cops, the LSPD has had around 100-110 members for almost the entire time I've been here. We're literally cycling what we lose.

• This week we had an academy that brought six new people into our faction.
• This week we have had five resignations.
• The week before we had an academy and brought five new people into our faction.
• The week before we had six resignations.

In terms of coverage, I get on around 3-4pm UTC and we have a lot of cops in that timezone but there is next to no calls. When I'm playing on my criminal at 2-3am UTC, there are hardly any cops on duty.

In terms of criminals lacking content, couldn't agree with you more. Criminals haven't really had an update for a while, but then also, there are other areas of the server that haven't either. Bug fixes are necessary, but they don't really add to anything. Things just work as they were intended to, from that point on.

You cannot judge law enforcement and criminal factions equally, because the roles are different. A microwave and a dishwasher are both kitchen appliances @CallumMontie but they do have very different roles in the kitchen. I wouldn't want a dishwasher-sized microwave anymore than I'd want a microwave-sized dishwasher.

I've spoke before about saturation of law enforcement in the server but I don't think this server needs more Zetas or more Triads in it's criminal eco-system. I think if anything it needs more gangs like the Ballas or WCA or Misfits to make things competitive and interesting.

The focus on the amount of people in PD has tells me that both Zetas and Triads only see PD as any kind of genuine competition. That is not the right mentality to have at all, we're supposed to be the neutral third party. If someone commits a crime, we try and stop them, it's not personal. It just so happens that anything significant crime wise comes from either the Zetas or the Triads.

You guys have made the decision to be allied and that's fine. You guys have made the decision to keep the other factions under the thumb with the tax system and that's fine. But in doing so, you have created an environment where the only real competition you have is the Police Departments. That's a decision you guys have made.

I gotta tell you, if you weakened PD like you want, you'd be even more bored after a while because it would be like playing on easy mode.

Honestly, instead of going back and forth like this. Faction Management should just get the leaders of the PDs and the official illegal factions in a discord channel and bang this out. Half the problems in this server come from people talking at each other instead of talking to one another.

[Phantas]

On 1/25/2020 at 2:19 PM, GOAT said:

> In terms of the Zetas and the Triads. I really ain't surprised that you are bored and I have respect for your factions but that's kind of as much your fault as it is PD hassling you or you not getting the criminal update. You guys turned on The Wanted and forced an active faction out of the server for role-play reasons and for what? There is literally no-one left that is going to be stupid enough to oppose you and that is very, very bad for the scene. Because you don't fight Zetas and you don't fight Triads, you fight them both. Something that at times even PD with all our goodies struggle to do. I know that there is role-play to support it and you can't just start fighting each other but i've said this before but no gang in the city should be allying up, it should be about you and your gangs alone.

Biggest thing lacking currently is criminals have no reason to fight each and when they do what do you fight for? Drug labs are something very few gangs even utilize since the more people that cook at lab just brings down the amount of many you each make individually. Your better off just fishing as a group or mining. 

Every war in Eclipse could be your last war since they don't stop till a mutual agreement is found which is what rarely happens. If you don't have allies you can rely on your time is very limited. The criminal player population only goes down after any of these big gang wars. Players from the gang that just got wiped out usually go down three routes:

1. Go to anther gang.
2. Go solo and just rob on sight.
3. Swap to a legal character. 

You don't currently get a chance to rebuild your gang you have to cut all ties once you lose a war since its unbearable being hunted all over the map. 

Reintroducing turfs could be a great solution to this wars would mostly gravitate towards these areas. It would reduce the whole hunting people all around the map once war is declared to a centralized area. If you lose your turf that wouldn't spell the end for your gang while the other gang chooses to defend what they had taken from you, you get some time to rebuild. Tying in turfs to weapon imports would allow you to take a away a gangs main means of arming themselves with heavy weapons.

I personally feel turfs are something that is much more needed than portable drug labs. We don't need more methods to make money we need something that allows gangs to survive past one war and have something for them to fight to reclaim.

It really hurts to see an official faction who worked for countless months to reach being official to lose it all over one war.