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Ruleplay and Faction Toxicity

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Definitely agree with OP. I think OOC hostility after failing an IC situation is definitely a problem that needs to be addressed. Providing bare-bones roleplay that isn’t really enough for a rulebreak but is neither enjoyable for yourself or your counterpart is something that needs to be avoided. Not to mention, the almost instant use of /b as soon as someone does something that is “maybe” breaking rules, such as accidental “ramming” or something along the lines. Something even worse is just using /b to straight up harass people or threaten them for a report if they don’t let him win the situation. Remember that this is roleplay, and that there are always ups and downs, you can’t expect to always win.

As to what the OP mentioned as a feud between WCA and NLA, in my view atleast, NLA used to be one of my favorite factions to see screenshots of their RP, since they strive for an authentic latino gang type roleplay. I used to think that if they were more active in recruiting they would’ve been made official. However, lately some members have been leaving me scratching heads with NLA low-income latino families who used to drive old muscle cars suddenly owning half a million dollar Comet’s etc. I understand how factions should progress but it doesn’t make sense really seeing how their reality is, they are far from owning sports cars RP wise. Not to mention, the toxicity being put out by some NLA members as of late has really put a sour taste to their faction.

That being said, I think a good introspect to ourselves individually should be in order. That we are all mature people logging on to have a good time and create interesting fun roleplay for others and for ourselves.

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Let's not get distracted from the topic of discussion, this isn't about the validity of someone's style of roleplay. It's about people on Eclipse playing the rules instead of playing the roles.

I'm sorry that mentioning NLA is uncomfortable for some of you, especially those currently involved in that faction. I just have to go on the examples that are currently in play here. Didn't want to name drop the Wanted or the Russians but again, they are examples. WCA is probably not without it's issues, no faction is BUT to me there is a fine line between having issues and being an issue.

The reality is that unless the staff team address this kind of behaviour, it will continue and will negatively impact the server. Might even say that it would disrupt server operations. I'm happy to discuss my issue with any staff member and recommend solutions. Not one of these people that complains for no reason and offers no alternative.

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5 hours ago, alexalex303 said:

WCA does not have an issue with the IC conflict.

This is where you're confused @OBESE. I told you this IC, and I'll say it OOC for you as well. We started this conflict in 2019, you kept begging us to end it, we're going to carry it not into 2020, but into 2021.

The only issue we've had so far is members of your faction spamming invalid reports. Two members made 12 reports, out of which 11 were rejected. This kind of OOC pressure is what makes you a faction that people are talking about forcefully disbanding.

Oh @alexalex303 you already lost one promising faction under your leadership that became official, dont do it again for god knows what reasons. You know what they say - only a fool makes the same mistake twice.  And when it comes to reports how come so many can be made against a faction that is lead by two people that are part of administration? As many as there were rejected, as many were accepted. Bless your soul tho!

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@alexalex303 Its quite funny how you say its an OOC war reporting for the smallest rule breaks, but then you go and make a report for joey carrying a dead body without roleplay all because you lost the fight IC. as a staff member i have no idea why you or how you would report someone for that when it was CLEARLY not a rule break and also when you have your own members carrying injured members without any RP (powergaming) and bug abusing (eating burgers) but nothing was said about it? you should know the rules better than anyone in your faction since you have a lot of EXP and a "staff member"

Also for the "begging for us to end the war" why are you saying this not ONCE have we begged you to end the war we asked why you are fighting a war that had nothing to do with you and you said if you want to end it pay 300k and i instantly rejected your offer, this is the only time we have spoken about the war ending.

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I mean this thread is rather proof and validation to these claims.  Look at how some people are acting in this thread, it's disgusting.  It is not hard to keep things IC'ly only, stop taking things personal and letting your OOC feelings interfere with things.  I'm not going to name names here because it's pretty obvious who is being toxic, just in this thread....

 

As far as someone mentioning The Council vs Wanted war, that war probably had less than 5 reports, there was respect on both sides, and it was great.  That's how all wars should be, if there is an issue, go to the factions leader about it and talk it out before you start making threads to get people "banned" and bragging about it.  This is a role-play server but so many seem to have forgot that and just want to rule-play which is boring.  

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The ooc war isnt't only in the player report section but also in #fashion.

I can only speak about WCA, during my time in there Alexalex enforced a couple of rules like not going into /b and to not make any report where the outcome was positive or where no severe loss occured as not doing so makes your faction look bad. Which is great because WCA is one of the few factions that doesn't automatically request Death RP after getting downed. which makes me respect them even though they kicked me from their faction for refusing to take down a forum report.

Sad to see that you removed me from the faction especially now that "pops" is back without telling me I would be kicked if I didn't take the report down as it's against the server rules to do so. That's why I refused.

  • Players must report cases of ban evasion, falsified forum reports, discussion of or jokes about cyber-attacks and other rule breaches. An attempt to hide such information is punishable.

Due to this server rule you are required to report anyone that breaks a server rule. the green part should be removed if you want the Ruleplay to stop.

It usually starts with one player reporting someone from an RP scenario which makes the other side start reporting as well and it discourages players to play crim RP.

You shouldn't be talking down on people for wanting to have the server rules enforced.

In my opinion the server rules should be simplified allowing for more diverse roleplay instead of the usual "hands up". or more clarifications on server rules as they are pretty vague in my opinion.

-1 on the KOS in your "Hood".  We're here to roleplay, not to play cs:go.

Edited by NM369
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1 minute ago, NM369 said:

The ooc war isnt't only in the player report section but also in #fashion.

I can only speak about WCA, during my time in there Alexalex enforced a couple of rules like not going into /b and to not make any report where the outcome was positive or where no severe loss occured as not doing so makes your faction look bad. Which is great because WCA is one of the few factions that doesn't automatically request Death RP after getting downed. which makes me respect them even though they kicked me from their faction for refusing to take down a forum report.

Sad to see that you removed me from the faction especially now that "pops" is back without telling me I would be kicked if I didn't take the report down as it's against the server rules to do so. That's why I refused.

 

  • Players must report cases of ban evasion, falsified forum reports, discussion of or jokes about cyber-attacks and other rule breaches. An attempt to hide such information is punishable.

Due to this server rule you are required to report anyone that breaks a server rule. the green part should be removed if you want the Ruleplay to stop.

It usually starts with one player reporting someone from an RP scenario which makes the other side start reporting as well and it discourages players to play crim RP.

 

In my opinion the server rules should be simplified allowing for more diverse roleplay instead of the usual "hands up". or more clarifications on server rules as they are pretty vague in my opinion.

-1 on the KOS in your "Hood".  We're here to roleplay, not to play cs:go.

I've canceled reports on people when they've reached out to me OOC'ly or where I have not occurred a severe loss, I just simply not reported it.  I doubt an admin is going to come punish you for something if two parties and maturely agree that something was a mistake and that it won't happen again.  That's called being an adult.  

I'll also continue to do that myself, I was DM'd a few days ago, and it was a mistake, the person apologized and I didn't lose anything major, nor was any RP ruined due to the result of it.  Just my point of view, I don't know much of your situation but I'm sure there was more to it than simply that.

 

Regardless, it should be a GOOD thing when the two parties can agree something was a mistake and wasn't done out of malicious hate.  Mistakes do happen, as we are all human.  It's simply not right to point out everyone's mistake, especially if it's something petty that can be resolved with a simple discord chat, or a /pm. 

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I would like to propose three major changes that could fix this

 

1: Punishments for frivolous reports and ruleplay.

If someone is reporting for things that aren't rulebreaks or even rulebreaks that dont change the end outcome of a situation then they should revive a minor punishment.

10-15 minutes in Ajail, 1-2 day ban on repeat offenses. In my own war with Vory I had them threatening me with nonRP reports for sitting on my car hood at bank. This is entirely unacceptable.

The report system should exist to improve roleplay on the server and not for punishing people for mild deviations and mistakes. This would be a very difficult thing to actually WRITE rules for but considering that every report is already handled on a case by case basis it would mostly just need to be a change in mindset from the people handling the reports.

 

TLDR Good RP should be a priority over everything else, and the rules should prevent bad RP rather then restricting good RP.

 

2: Players should be required to inform the party they are reporting that a report is incoming immediately after the event

More then a few times ive seen my friends get hit with "stealth reports" where the person is not informed and therefore cannot save the footage to defend themselves.

As addressed in OPs post this idea that we have to record EVERYTHING to be able to survive on this server is absurd, but there is not much we can do about that without the report system breaking down entirely excepting for perhaps far more detailed ALOGS but that would be prohibitively expensive to store. But as it is now sometimes recording everything isnt even enough because if you think you followed all rules and they don't tell you then that instant replay footage is not going to get saved giving you no means to defend yourself.

 

3: Farther limitations on what can get you perma banned

As it is now 2 DM mistakes MONTHS or even YEARS apart from a well meaning player can get someone perma banned. This is the ultimate punishment and should be reserved for people who act in malice, actively trying to harm the community and ruin peoples experience within it.

Perhaps some sort of alog expiration date instead of being permanent, length based on severity and renewed on repeat offenses in that timeframe.

For example, if someone gets a nonRP report, then does fine for 6 months (arbitrarily decided in this case) then can you really say they have had a net negative contribution to the community? Maybe that Alog should be listed as expired for someone showing that it was a simple mistake, didnt know any better, or something of the like.

BUT if they get another nonRP in 5 months reset the timer, they are close enough together to show that this person has not improved yet.

 

This is just my thoughts, and perhaps its too lax. Let me know what you think.

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Now with the inclusion of other civilian factions, the situation has gotten worse. More back and forth reports, more examples of rule-playing and out of character toxicity and if this is left unattended it's going to get worse and people are going to end up getting more and more punishments.

It's not my place to make judgements or decide who is right or wrong in this but considering there has been at least 7-8 new reports in the past 24 hours, if this is ignored, it's just going to make things worse for the admin team, the factions involved and also, the server in general.

I think it's time that faction management stepped in decisively and got their hands around this thing before it gets worse than it does, regardless of my affiliation with WCA, this issue isn't specific to any faction but is becoming more and more common as more people are getting away with it. @Archaeah @Lewis

 

Edited by GOAT
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On 1/5/2020 at 6:58 PM, GOAT said:

I wasn't concerned that i'd be caught by the cops or that WCA's enemies would kill me because in all honesty, that all a part of the game and it's all role-play. What I felt concerned about was breaking a rule.

This right here is the soul reason I've always leaned towards being a victimless criminal if that. Always had the fear of accidentally breaking a rule due to how easy it is to do so in an RP scenario and how quick people are to hop on you for it. 

On 1/5/2020 at 6:58 PM, GOAT said:

I'll be honest with you, being in PD is a bit of a safety blanket when it comes to the rules. It's a lot more straightforward and easy to keep yourself from trouble because it's like, if it's ICly justifiable then you probably did a good job. Someone attacking, you put them down. Someone doing something they shouldn't, you punish them. Playing criminal is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay different.

100% facts.

On 1/5/2020 at 6:58 PM, GOAT said:

It is DRUMMED into us to respect other factions always and to keep things in-character and yet it is so blatantly obvious that the forums, the report section and worst of all, the rules are used as an OOC method of conflict in this community. You report my friend, I report yours. People pick sides, people get divided and things get toxic.

Some of the rules that we have set-up in this community such as the Fear Roleplay rule and the Deathmatch rules were installed to create roleplay but they've unfortunately and unintentionally created a culture of ruleplay. People don't exploit them to win IC anymore either, they exploit them to win OOC. 

Could not have said it better.

 

We need to explicitly state, in the rulebook, that ruleplay is NOT the intended encouragement. It's not just rules either, it's how they're enforced. Admins have (unless it's changed) a set punishment for each rule with little to no wiggle room on it. There are certain rules that can be enforced with rules, but I'm sure we can come up with different ways to enforce others. 

The player report format should have a section saying: "In your opinion, what would be the proper conclusion to this report?" so that each player making a report can just outright and clearly state what they want to come from that report whether it be punishment or alternative resolution. Admins should spend more time on trying to make EACH side happy and content with the conclusion, rather than working more-or-less for one party in coming to the conclusion. Admins should try to hold more voice conferences with players OOCly to teach them and more or less just be there to answer any questions and guide them. They should also get reporting and reported parties together in a conversation, moderating the conversation, and attempting to come to alternative solutions before punishment is discussed.

I can keep going all day about why this would help, but I can't put an entire plan into text at once. I am in no way saying this resolves any issues you brought up, but I think it could be a good step and actually help players. 

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These concerns are very real and I couldn't agree more. Obviously being a criminal for a long time I have learned my way around but that still doesn't bar the fact I sometimes slip up. I guess I could call myself lucky I have never been punished with DM after playing as a criminal and frequently being in shootouts for over a year.

To analyze the problem further, I feel the report spamming happens more around newer players that just joined the server and people that do report spam often don't have a very long life expectancy on the forums as they are clearly not here to RP but rather to mess with others. I personally hate having to argue over rulebreaks on the forums. Yes I have made a few reports myself but only when I feel like someone is displaying behaviour that I feel doesn't belong on this server at all.

The question of course is how to combat such a problem, and frankly I don't think there is a simple answer. One idea could be to differentiate better between punishments. Right now, I could walk up to someone and shoot them in the face for absolutely no reason. My punishment? The same as someone who shot someone else for thinking they had valid reason to do so, but didn't. Such as a mix up between who is getting arrested and who isn't and who was pointing a gun. Yes, these are slip ups and yes they should be punished but just 2 of these slipups shouldn't lead to an instant permanent ban. So perhaps introduce something such as minor DM. 

Of course this does not solve the problem completely as there are countless other things people make petty reports over. The problem is, the precedent has been set and it's hard to steer away from it. For instance, in the NLA vs WCA war it hard to say who started reporting who but fact is that they both do it now so you can't really blame either one. Maybe the leaders of both factions can come together and agree to disagree and fight their problems out ICly and if they have issues with how RP was conducted to come to eachother so things can be sorted out internally rather then on the forums. 

This is how @Copes handled it with us when we were at war with Wanted and man it was so much fun. I didn't have to worry about breaking little rules by shooting the wrong person in orange. It was gang vs gang RP and everyone understood that pulling up in colour to a shootout meant you were part of it. Maybe the NLA and the WCA can take an example of this and sort it out between eachother.

Edited by Rubsmeister
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18 minutes ago, Rubsmeister said:

For instance, in the NLA vs WCA war it hard to say who start reporting who 

It is not at all hard to say who started reporting who, if you actually spend the time to go to the player report archive. They are sorted by oldest post, and the creation date of each thread can be seen. 

In my point of view, NLA started the reports when they felt that they could no longer RP the same way they could when they were at peace. As in, they had to constantly be ready to get hit, couldn't chill at the hood, etc.. I feel that they took this IC consequence as OOC inconvenience and tried to stop it by any means. 

Since the war started Carlos (Dylan Ortiz) filed something close to 30 reports, in around 35 days. Tab Yez had a streak in which he filed 8 reports in cca 10 days, out of which 6 were denied and in 2 he was punished himself for breaking rules. Similar numbers were displayed by Joey Poppins at one point. These aren't attacks on these specific people, just stating stats.

I for one feel that the OOC situation with NLA calmed down once the reports started getting denied, and they took the new location, and kinda hid from attacks. Not to say that they are hiding, we are still getting attacked, and attacking ICly. All in all, it's calming down, and there's no reason to re-kindle it.

I also feel that you're a bit wrong in how you view the player report section, especially after my conversation with the high admin team and handler team. Instead of looking at report simply by "they made a report" or "WCA making reports", you should be looking at which reports get accepted, and which are denied, especially the ones denied for being petty. That would give you a better sense of who's filing valid reports (overall positive action, encouraged by the server rules), and who is filing invalid and/or petty reports.

 

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5 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

It is not at all hard to say who started reporting who, if you actually spend the time to go to the player report archive. They are sorted by oldest post, and the creation date of each thread can be seen. 

In my point of view, NLA started the reports when they felt that they could no longer RP the same way they could when they were at peace. As in, they had to constantly be ready to get hit, couldn't chill at the hood, etc.. I feel that they took this IC consequence as OOC inconvenience and tried to stop it by any means. 

Since the war started Carlos (Dylan Ortiz) filed something close to 30 reports, in around 35 days. Tab Yez had a streak in which he filed 8 reports in cca 10 days, out of which 6 were denied and in 2 he was punished himself for breaking rules. Similar numbers were displayed by Joey Poppins at one point. These aren't attacks on these specific people, just stating stats.

I for one feel that the OOC situation with NLA calmed down once the reports started getting denied, and they took the new location, and kinda hid from attacks. Not to say that they are hiding, we are still getting attacked, and attacking ICly. All in all, it's calming down, and there's no reason to re-kindle it.

I also feel that you're a bit wrong in how you view the player report section, especially after my conversation with the high admin team and handler team. Instead of looking at report simply by "they made a report" or "WCA making reports", you should be looking at which reports get accepted, and which are denied, especially the ones denied for being petty. That would give you a better sense of who's filing valid reports (overall positive action, encouraged by the server rules), and who is filing invalid and/or petty reports.

 

I have no time or interest in scrounging through the report section to find out exactly who did what. If you present these numbers to be true, I'll gladly accept that to be the case. That however does not solve the problem. The problem is solved by reaching a mutual understanding. Read the rest of what I said, maybe try to contact the leader of NLA and find a fair middle ground you're both comfortable with. If this is undoable then that sucks and perhaps my other suggestion may help. If not, as I stated before and what you are stating is true report spammers will discipate over time anyways. As you stated yourself Tab Yez got punished twice himself and Joey Poppins is unless now changed banned. 

 

PS: This also obviously doesn't just involve the WCA or NLA/Misfits. This has involved many gangs before such as my own and gangs we've fought. I personally tell members to not report of petty occurances and to rather sort things out internally, which has helped considering a lack of reports against/by us recently (Obviously this can also be attributed to the fact there is no large conflict with any other organisations as of right now).

Edited by Rubsmeister
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The issues are as I see

  • People playing the rules, instead of their characters.
  • People using the rules and report section to further themselves, their faction or their agenda.
  • Factions that have a potential future as official factions are fighting factions that don't.
  • The rules that are supposed to keep people role-playing, are actually limiting criminal factions from doing the sort of things that criminals do.
  • Some of the rules are encouraging non-roleplay behaviour and rule-play, as opposed to stopping it. I'm talking about things like driving at 70 away from another faction, because you know they can't issue demands. Driving past a rival faction, trying to bait them because you know they can't hit you.
  • Factions aren't really fighting FOR anything, Council/Wanted was and WCA/NLA is basically, a war of attrition. The goal seems to be to beat the other side out of the server, which in the short term is fine, but long term, you're only as good as your opposition.

Possible solutions?

  1. Add the ability for faction management to force disband factions that have a negative impact on the criminal community. This is just being practical, if you aren't going anywhere, then you aren't focused on doing the right things as a faction and don't need to be a part of it. It's your decision to be that way.
  2. Add the ability for faction management to temporarily suspend hostilities between factions for a short period of time. This would be used if things got ridiculous in game with the violence or it was becoming too much of a toxic issue OOC. As a last resort basically.
  3. Classify Gang HQs and Illegal Locations as black zones, where the rules of engagement/violence would be lessened. 
    Example, a faction comes to your HQ area looking to start trouble but as it stands, they have to fulfil certain criteria to be killed. I'd want that removed, because if you are coming to a rival faction HQ, you know what you are there for. It's a choice, it's not something that you accidently do. It's realistic as that if you go to an enemies territory, things will get bad quickly.
    The same applies for the drug labs, chop shop etc.. -- If you are there, you aren't in public and you're outside the law. 
    If you flee a black zone, you take the role-play with you. So if you are being shot at inside a black zone and you leave the zone, you can still be shot at provided the situation is still connected to when you were getting shot at i.e. the group is still pursuing you.
     
  4. Add in a non-scripted roleplay driven turf map, which gives faction wars more context and purpose.
    Every illegal faction with faction handler gets to participate and gets their HQ as their home turf.
    To capture additional turf, you would have to show roleplay in that area for a period of time. For example, posting screenshots of you hanging in that area, actually role-playing with whatever is in that area etc so it's roleplay driven, not violence driven.
    There aren't necessarily any advantages but bragging rights but it's something more AND as a plus, means the developers don't have to script anything. Can literally be a forum post that gets updated.
    The beauty of it is also, that it's in-character so it can drive additional roleplay through meetings and things of that nature. Inter-faction politics can be more diverse and interesting as a result of this. Alliances, betrayals, trades etc..

    Below is just an example of what i'm talking about.
    The screenshot below, you've got green, purple and yellow gangs all with an interest in the areas of Del Perro and Vespucci. 
    The South of Del Perro/North East of Vespucci is controlled by the greens, but the Yellows have a strong presence in the South.
    The Purple gang doesn't really have much influence over that side, so maybe they want to expand.

    What do they do if they want North Vespucci Beach? They start roleplaying in that area.
    Maybe that creates friction between all the factions, maybe green trades with purple, maybe yellow and green team to drive purple out, maybe yellow and purple team up to drive green out of the area. 

    If you start adding stakes beyond just basic survival, then things can get more interesting, for every faction and because it depends on ROLEPLAY and not killing, the way to advance is to be smarter than just 'chase me, chase you'. If people like it I can do a full suggestion about it.
     
  5. f56b4448ba30676d8c818b084a171704.jpg
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@alexalex303Its quite funny when you say "I also feel that you're a bit wrong in how you view the player report section, especially after my conversation with the high admin team and handler team. Instead of looking at report simply by "they made a report" or "WCA making reports", you should be looking at which reports get accepted, and which are denied, especially the ones denied for being petty." 

I've just went through 22 pages of archive files dating back to the 29th of october, of which i've made 20 reports since then, 16 of them accepted and 4 denied, the 4 denied were all from vory. So if we look at the fact of "reports get accepted, and which are denied" all 16 got accepted, you also talk about petty reports, of which you yourself reported Oti 3 times in one day, 2 out of 3 were denied (OOC hate?), then the report on joey, when he carried a dead body without roleplay that was not needed, the fact that you waited 47 hrs to post this and it was told by a head admin that there is NO chance this would even be a rule breach is ironic. And how Pops is seen eating a burger to gain health mid gunfight is completely overlooked.

There is many and many times where i could have reported you guys but i decided its not worth reporting for i still have 99% of the videos i didn't report, even ones on you!

You also say that we hid from attacks, we haven't been more actively looking for you guys so i'm not sure why you add this on the post.

My personal option on how to stop the forum reports is simple, don't break the rules what do you think? 

 

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I feel like the main points which are 3 and 4 are leading up to the fact that turfs need to be a thing. 

Most gangs do most of their business in their HQ locations, as can be seen from faction threads and the RP they are posting. Additionally, it is IC knowledge between the gangs on where each hangs out.

I think a big problem, as you mentioned, is that gangs have nothing to fight for apart from having the other faction be disbanded.

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14 hours ago, GOAT said:

 

  1. Add in a non-scripted roleplay driven turf map, which gives faction wars more context and purpose.
    Every illegal faction with faction handler gets to participate and gets their HQ as their home turf.
    To capture additional turf, you would have to show roleplay in that area for a period of time. For example, posting screenshots of you hanging in that area, actually role-playing with whatever is in that area etc so it's roleplay driven, not violence driven.
    There aren't necessarily any advantages but bragging rights but it's something more AND as a plus, means the developers don't have to script anything. Can literally be a forum post that gets updated.
    The beauty of it is also, that it's in-character so it can drive additional roleplay through meetings and things of that nature. Inter-faction politics can be more diverse and interesting as a result of this. Alliances, betrayals, trades etc..

    Below is just an example of what i'm talking about.
    The screenshot below, you've got green, purple and yellow gangs all with an interest in the areas of Del Perro and Vespucci. 
    The South of Del Perro/North East of Vespucci is controlled by the greens, but the Yellows have a strong presence in the South.
    The Purple gang doesn't really have much influence over that side, so maybe they want to expand.

    What do they do if they want North Vespucci Beach? They start roleplaying in that area.
    Maybe that creates friction between all the factions, maybe green trades with purple, maybe yellow and green team to drive purple out, maybe yellow and purple team up to drive green out of the area. 

    If you start adding stakes beyond just basic survival, then things can get more interesting, for every faction and because it depends on ROLEPLAY and not killing, the way to advance is to be smarter than just 'chase me, chase you'. If people like it I can do a full suggestion about it.
     
  2. f56b4448ba30676d8c818b084a171704.jpg

We have tried to start holding down the turf around our HQ, however without script support and the fact that we don’t have 200+ members it’s very hard to actually do so. Add on to that that you can’t really do roleplay things in your turf such as extorting stores or drop off points because everytime 1 911 call goes out the entire PD instantly responds in full force and pats everyone down, and it becomes very hard to purely RPly hold down a turf. Some form of script support is needed here.

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6 hours ago, Rubsmeister said:

We have tried to start holding down the turf around our HQ, however without script support and the fact that we don’t have 200+ members it’s very hard to actually do so. Add on to that that you can’t really do roleplay things in your turf such as extorting stores or drop off points because everytime 1 911 call goes out the entire PD instantly responds in full force and pats everyone down, and it becomes very hard to purely RPly hold down a turf. Some form of script support is needed here.

I think that might be a slight over-exaggeration on your part there Zilian. Speaking as someone on the other end of that 911 call, the calls are usually calls about the impound, someone getting their car robbed or some other low level thing. 

When I talk about role-playing in an area, it doesn't just have to be criminal. Could be something as simple as hanging out at a store, doing a car meet etc.. obviously if you are holding people up then cops are going to get called, but the limitations to what you can do are your limitations, not other peoples. Think outside the box, do something different etc..

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