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Swattpup1989

Regarding Police

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To be honest I haven't see the IA team since they members are hidden from the department. I do agree that IA needs more people for the huge amount of complains. But again There's a low amount of officers. And ever more when they join a division, like IA. That's why the department is looking for more member to fill out stop withing the department.
Right now when the server reach around 200 players may be there's only 20 officers around witch made it 10 to 1.

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4 minutes ago, Pertinax said:

As police officer we just double check. because In my experience, 80% of the times, the vehicle is actually stolen.

You legit just solidified the abuse of power and the amount of bias in the PD and SD.

I legit have watched videos of police using excessive force on ECRP and nothing has been done to these cops unless ECRP staff steps in. For example, Officer Raven. Constantly is seen abusing his power and using excessive force yet he is still on the force. And if I am not mistaken just got promoted. How the fuck that even seems remotely okay is beyond me. Dude uses excessive force and is hated by everyone yet gets promoted.

Another cop who is hated by everyone is Striker or however you spell it. He literally sits at the bank - ticketing and towing everyone. Even if you just arrived to grab your salary, he runs over and drops a ticket on your window. Like I understand the parking system but most places if your running in and then out, don't require a parking fee. Sorry but if my trip to the bank is legit a minute long. Im not paying for parking for 1 minute. Its pointless.

Also the other issue is none of the cops seem to understand the concealment RP nor understand that it exists. I know people who legit login and do the RP Concealment under a coat or something and cops still push it with them even though they have OOC Proof of the concealment. They just blatantly ignore it.


Truthfully I agree with @alexalex303. Cops need to stop being given written warnings or other shit. They need to be kicked to the curb for doing dumb shit that under normal circumstances, would not fly in the real world. This server is based on realism yet the only people actually being punished on a realistic level are the people playin as criminals.

 

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3 minutes ago, Pertinax said:

To be honest I haven't see the IA team since they members are hidden from the department. I do agree that IA needs more people for the huge amount of complains. But again There's a low amount of officers. And ever more when they join a division, like IA. That's why the department is looking for more member to fill out stop withing the department.
Right now when the server reach around 200 players may be there's only 20 officers around witch made it 10 to 1.

I'm curious why you didn't address the other argument? I said that cops that are found guilty of breaches of protocol are not punished harshly enough and that they do not get dealt with fast enough. Hiring more IA officers would be a nice start, yes, but do you agree that officers kidnapping someone (detaining them without legal authority) should face termination and/or prison? Or is the current written warning/slap on the wrist system to your satisfaction?

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2 minutes ago, Pertinax said:

To be honest I haven't see the IA team since they members are hidden from the department. I do agree that IA needs more people for the huge amount of complains. But again There's a low amount of officers. And ever more when they join a division, like IA. That's why the department is looking for more member to fill out stop withing the department.
Right now when the server reach around 200 players may be there's only 20 officers around witch made it 10 to 1.

This is legit PD and SD own fault. No one wants to join a group who is mutually hated by law abiding citizens and nonlaw abiding citizens. You guys hire literally anyone and everyone. And the ACTUAL good cops who are fun to RP with and do their job properly, seem to be tired of doing it. Wouldn't be surprised if the police department literally goes barren soon. 95% of the time when I go down there looking for a high ranking officer or the police chief, I get told go out front they are hanging out. Like damn dude, what happened to professionalism. Was just at Mission Row and the police chief is hanging out on the stairs with 2 girls in a Christmas outfit fuckin around while a cadet is handling my situation alone. Seems a bit ass backwards imho.

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Perfect Example of abuse of power. This right here-

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Legit claims the road in the pictures is a one way from Mission Row to the Square. Yet the road signs state the road is a one way FROM the Square to Mission Row. Hands my buddy a ticket.

Then makes threats for me asking questions and the fact I was told previously SD has no jurisdiction in the city.

And I get threatened with obstruction yet the female is even closer than I was and gets nothing said to her because she knows him. Seems a bit fucked

Already filed an IA report. Bet 10 to 1 it will be like @alexalex303 case and I will get a response in 2 months time. Wonder how much damage Officer Raven does before the report gets recognized.

Edited by Swattpup1989
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3 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

I'm curious why you didn't address the other argument? I said that cops that are found guilty of breaches of protocol are not punished harshly enough and that they do not get dealt with fast enough. Hiring more IA officers would be a nice start, yes, but do you agree that officers kidnapping someone (detaining them without legal authority) should face termination and/or prison? Or is the current written warning/slap on the wrist system to your satisfaction?

Let me address you in these concerns, From what I know, Depending of the investigation out come there's a list of punishments, like it does with the Player reports. These punishments are handle from levels, like the law does, First offense, second offense, third offense, etc. Termination of officers are actually in place if you head in to the Government site, you would see suspensions and discharges that are actually public. Now again, it have to be process witch the IA team take care of. A written warning, then a suspension, then a termination. This depends in the out come of the investigation, Yes, investigations take long, why? Because the investigator needs to gather the evidence, need to gather the witnesses, etc, etc. And this takes time, since the officers do not have a Duty Schedual as in Real life. Then it comes the debate of the investigators team to reach in to an out come.

Now, Officers can detain some one at an point, can be just not letting the person go, or placing him on cuffs. That's in to the officer discretion and how the suspect interacts with the officers, if he remains calm and wait for the out come he may not be even place on cuffs. But he is yelling impeding the officer to talk to some one, or acting erratically, can be place under cuffs until he out come. This individual can be under detention by the officer for a period of 48 hours. IG, this can be up to 3 hours OOC.

Sadly in this server, There's not a jury and lawyers. And I would like to see that. So what the officer sees stay and that's why AI Exist so you can give your conserns. Or if a civilian have enough proves.

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22 minutes ago, Swattpup1989 said:

Perfect Example of abuse of power. This right here-

(Some videos here)

Legit claims the road in the pictures is a one way from Mission Row to the Square. Yet the road signs state the road is a one way FROM the Square to Mission Row. Hands my buddy a ticket.

Then makes threats for me asking questions and the fact I was told previously SD has no jurisdiction in the city.

And I get threatened with obstruction yet the female is even closer than I was and gets nothing said to her because she knows him. Seems a bit fucked

Already filed an IA report. Bet 10 to 1 it will be like @alexalex303 case and I will get a response in 2 months time. Wonder how much damage Officer Raven does before the report gets recognized.

This is my input on this:

First, SD can patrol in our jurisdiction if there's a low amount of Police Officers. This is sharing jurisdiction. This goes vise versa too. If there's a low amount of Sherrifs we do patrol heir jurisdiction too.

Now about the obstruction, While an officer is performing a traffic stop in this case he is just talking to the driver and the persons involved in the vehicle. What you are doing here, is getting your self involved in a situation that does not concerns you. And the officer having to deal with the traffic stop and now you slower down the investigation or the traffic stop. And this is actually considered obstruction of justice since now the officer have to deal with you too. My suggestion on this is wait till the traffic stop is done and approach the officer calmly and express your concerns. Because if you do so in the middle of the situation you are impeding to do his job. You can ask any questions you want, but there's a time and place to do so. Not in the middle of traffic stop. This can get you in trouble.
 

Now, this doesn't mean I'm agree with the officer initial reason to pull over. because I do not know them.

But I would agree with you, the officer in your video is on the wrong about the direction of the lane.

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As a latino i got pulled over so many times by a know awful cop he legit profiles me and says Rivera stop on the road by looking at my car how is it realistic  and the other thing about the masks man im in my car with  a mask and they have it as a valid reason to pull me over and then they ask why I treat them like shit there is the response

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7 minutes ago, Swattpup1989 said:

Love the real life videos @Pertinax. Again doesn't prove your point. It proves ours.

Still remains PD is beyond out of control.

 

If you want to criticize my videos go head. But I think criticizing in that way is not resolving anything.
What I'm doing here is to clarify points.

And I do not say that the hole PD is a holy spirit, Yes there's bad cops in the department. And it will always be. Sadly.
But Terminating every officer for one reason would let the department with a very low amount of officers, may be 10 on duty.
What the punishments intent in the department is to Help the officer to be a better officer and take better decisions, so in this way we can have the man power and also improve the department.

Now, in RL they go thru a months of training because that their jobs. But in this server They go thru sessions that evaluate the cadets and officers. Ofc most of or none of them have Police experience, and OFC they will make mistakes, that why the punishment system is made in that way.

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But at a certain point the punishment system needs to be handled quicker. And if it cant then the punishments need to be more severe. You said yourself the IA department is spread thin. If it takes 2 months for them to respond and do something. Whats to say in that 2 month time period, that cop does the same exact mistake. Nothing is learned because the second time they did it is cancelled by the first because they didn't know it was wrong in the first place.

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6 minutes ago, Swattpup1989 said:

But at a certain point the punishment system needs to be handled quicker. And if it cant then the punishments need to be more severe. You said yourself the IA department is spread thin. If it takes 2 months for them to respond and do something. Whats to say in that 2 month time period, that cop does the same exact mistake. Nothing is learned because the second time they did it is cancelled by the first because they didn't know it was wrong in the first place.

I Do agree that it takes time, but sadly that's how it goes, it have to be handle IC And to do that, evidence and investigation have to be conducted. So is almost impossible that it can be handle in a matter of 2 days. It does need time.

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8 minutes ago, Hoxton_Curry said:

Here’s another example, all of this was a few months ago

I wasn’t on the server for 7 days, I took a break, when I came back I find out that I’ve been charged for GTA, after 4 days of not playing. I make an IA because I don’t recall of this situation and don’t steal cars around police often. I get a very late reply saying that I did the crime, I never got any kind of evidence or the date or the context of the situation that got me this charge, it also said that If I’m not happy with the answer I can send an IA appeal to the commissioner which I have. It has been 4 months still no answer

 

 

Another example:

I was at a scene and shot and killed 2 officers and I get charged for 20+ murders (I still have evidence of the situation and proof of the charges but I didnt make an IA because this was before uncapped prison times and debt but it just shows how pd operates) 

 

Somehow all this is an “IC issue”

I'm sorry to hear this I really do. And if you are correct, your charge will be removed from your record. And if you send an IA report with the evidence needed the officer, may be issued with a punishment. I do not know the state of your report since I'm not an AI officer, but you should be able to send an E-Mail asking about the state of it. A Pm on gov forums.

Now for the other example, you may killed your self 2 cops, but if your fiends did killed more cops you can get added with the same charge as accessory since you participated.
And this is a IF. Since I do not now the situation.

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1 hour ago, alexalex303 said:

My view on law enforcement in the server is that it's been okay but it's rapidly degrading. I used to be a criminal main over a year ago, and most of my interactions with police officers were within the boundaries of what I'd consider realistic, and for a couple of months, I was a supervisor in the LSPD, however, since returning to criminal, two months ago, I've been noticing more and more gross abuses of power. I'm not sure if this is because I now know (OOCly) a lot more about police regulation, and when they are pushing it, or if there truly are more abusive cops, but there are quite a number of officers that have absolutely no regard for law and what is acceptable.

To give you an example, two days ago I went to the police department to inquire about a revoked gun permit. The officer that I was questioning asked for my identification, which I found reasonable. There were several other officers in the room. Another officer says, "I want to see your licenses too!", and a Detective identifies me verbally, by my full name. Then another cop says, "You have to show it or its failure to identify". I show the officer my identification, even though another law enforcement officer identified me, and she had no WORK RELATED reason to know my name. Then the officer that initially threatened me with a charge, asked to see it as well. 

This is the kind of gross abuse of power, that I feel is borderline NonRP. There was absolutely no work related reason for the 5th officer in the room to know the same name that 4 other cops knew, and verified that I was not wanted. It was quite simply a power play.

The usual response to this is file an IA report. The issue with that is that officers are not punished harshly enough, nor are the reports dealt with in a timely manner.

I will provide you with a second anecdote.

Last month I was involved in an armed robbery with two other people, and one of the victims named me as a perpretator later on. She was a female character. A cop, with no evidence what-so-ever, based on her word of mouth, searched me and my vehicle. I did not have anything illegal in my possession. Furthermore, after he established that I did not have any illegal items, and I was not wanted, he placed me in cuffs, and inside his cruiser, and quite literally kidnapped me to face my accuser, that was in a different area. My car was left unlocked on the side of the road. I protested it, and the officer said that "I'm being detained for an Investigation".

I filed an IA report, on the 10th of September. I just received an answer on 14th of November, saying that, of course, the officer broke policy, and that he was "disciplined".

Now I ask you, what do you think was the discipline? My guess is a written warning. 

What would the discipline be for me, or any other person if we kidnapped someone under no legal bases and kept them there? Prison.

The fact that the cop was not at the very least fired is exactly why people feel the way they feel about law enforcement. There is very little recourse for most abuses of power, and even when they get confirmed, it's a slap on the wrist for the cop.

This was a long rant, so I will present you with some solutions to end it:

  • If an officer is found to be in breach of a serious protocol, think force matrix, false detainment, etc, he should be fired. No written warnings, no suspensions.
  • If an officer is found to have falsely arrested someone, they should be fired. No written warnings, no suspensions.
  • If an officer is found to be issuing orders that are not lawful, he should be suspended.

The current punishment system is not proportional to what abusive law enforcement officers can inflict upon their victims.

As an officer in game I agree with most of what you're saying, LSPD should be way more stricter with punishments but I think we're not due to the lack of officers. I've played on a criminal character for a little while and I now understand and see where most of your points are coming from and I personally have changed the way I treat criminals. I think some cops are power hungry and are out to win and it makes the faction as a whole look negative.

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reasons like this why if i get pulled over, sometimes i just get out, put hands up and get on knees. 

By not giving a reason for a stop, i am unable to respond with my roleplay accordingly.

If a player does not give another player a chance to adequatly respond to RP, im sure we call that powergaming. 

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Unfortunately, I had quoted a lot of the posts on here and spent like 30 minutes writing replies to people but the editor messed up and voila, so I'm unfortunately going to have to give the TLDR version.

Masks/Identifying
The law states that you have to remove your mask and identify yourself. If you are wearing a mask in a No Crime Zone, it's a crime. If you are in Tequilala basement and you are masked, you are classed as meeting so again you have to identify yourself.

When it comes to Facial Concealment, I don't think in it's current form that it's practical to enforce since nearly all the criminals are masked. You can't ask Guy A to remove his mask and not ask the rest of the alphabet.

  • Wearing masks inside the NCZs should be against the server rules, the exceptions should be Tequilala and Yellow Bell. Non RP to go into a police station, hospital or the bank masked.
  • Allow criminals to wear their masks in public but they only have to remove them when being actively questioned or part of the immediate group that's being questioned regarding a crime.
    Example: You could ask everyone in a vehicle to take their masks off, but you couldn't just go up to a group on the street and ask them to all unmask.

Personally, I only ask people to remove their mask if I need to question them or if they are in a no crime zone anyway.

- - -

Reason for Stopping or Identification First?

Los Santos is a city where the violent crime rate is through the roof. If you get pulled over, you might very well just going 75 in a 70 but we need for our own safety and others, establish who you are, whether you are wanted for something and whether you have legal ownership of the vehicle you are driving.

If you refuse to identify, you are breaking the law and that's jail regardless of whether you were innocent before or not.

- - -

Internal Affairs

The division has increased in size recently to cope with demand but we can only pick from officers of supervisor ranks or above.

The majority of cases are for issued citations.

There is also so difficult with people providing IC evidence in the correct manner. You need /me's of the recording starting and stopping. You need time of day too. You can't just toss us a streamable link and say fire this guy.

There is probably a reluctance to fire people right off the bat, unless they have done something that goes too far or there are too many instances of that person making those kind of errors. 

Internal Affairs needs to be fair and just, not just for the reporters but also those being reported. I wouldn't feel comfortable giving someone a pass that didn't deserve it anymore than I would feel comfortable punishing someone more severely so it looks good to outsiders.

Unfortunately like with admin punishments, whether or not a decision is fair or not is often subjective and you can't please everybody sometimes.

- - -

Dip in Police Standards

I have to agree that standards have dropped a little in the department and I'm a little disappointed by it in truth. Something I learned from playing both cop and criminal is that neither side has a complete understanding of the other, you have to have or at least have had a foot in both worlds to understand the struggles of both.

  • Sheriffs Department and Spreading Cop Work thin.
    I feel like the start of this dip came about when the Sheriffs Department was formed. I don't blame SD at all for wanting to do ttheir own thing and I think they've done well so far with it but we actually lost not just key members but very experienced people  Osborn, Wallace, Hamilton, Harry, Lukas, Serthon, Lewis, Chloe all left and even now I still don't think we're back at full strength.

    We expanded to Paleto Bay and spread people out but the server population hasn't really changed. A significant amount of the big criminal activity happens at the drug labs and the chop shops. Those locations are lost to PD now and I feel after Sheriffs came, the job of being in LSPD has changed. There are periods during the day where you are waiting for 20-25 minutes for a proper situation.

    People might level the "well its an rp server, not cops and robbers" but to those people I say, imagine they open another mechanic shop now or they open another taxi company. The server population has stayed more or less the same, but we have gone from 120 LSPD cops to 143 PD/SD cops.

    On an excitement level, I'm not just here for the shootouts and chases but for your average cop you need that. We are having situations where we have 8-10 cruisers in one pursuit because that's been the only situation in half an hour. It would be like the gangs have little to no one to rob. It does get boring.

    The subject of boredom ties into the allegations that cops are focusing on things that are seen as petty. We're having to make our own roleplay because there is nothing to do.
     
  • Continuing to lose Key Members of PD.
    Even after SD was formed, we've lost quite a number of the experienced high ups that made the faction what it was originally. 
    We're losing influential and experienced members like Daniels Shelby, Josh Paige, Edward Sharp, Ilai Daniels, Kristofer Avens, Jason Steel, Hugo Romano, Marco Davis, Enzo Bozzuto, Ryan Torres etc..  These are guys that were either in big positions in the faction or they were at least around the faction for a long time and knew how things worked.

    It would be like taking a bunch of the big hitters from Zetas. You lose your way a little bit and you can't rush people into positions because they need to learn the ropes. Ultimately the quality does suffer as a result. 

    There are a number of important positions vacant, I think some people are doing more roles than they probably should through necessity and PD is in a bit of a transition right now.

    I don't think PD is as bad as some of you are making out but at the same time, it could be a lot better.

- - -

Prison Sentence Cap

You know when we were talking about taking the cap away, the arguments for it were so compelling and it made so much sense but in my view, I don't think it's worked out for the best at all.

Before, criminals were being far too reckless with their criminal activities but now in my opinion, it's often times not worth it for them to commit crimes. We have the same number of people in the server but a lot less 911 calls.

I think to a certain degree, the sentence cap was a little bit of a safety net for criminals. They knew that no matter what they did or what they thought PD was doing, at most they'd go to prison for two hours and that was more acceptable to them.

Clearly some of you really don't have a lot of faith in PD, some of that is fair and some isn't but I think a good concession on our part would be to bring the sentence cap back with the provision that Command+ could ask for an admin for more time, in extreme circumstances (where someone commits a lot of murders for example). But your average prison arrests would be capped again.

- - -

I feel like I have a little bit of a reputation for being pretty fair with criminals and my attitude towards it is, it's your job to do the crime and it's my job to try and stop you. But in order for me to do my job, I need you. 

If someone shows me the out of character respect of roleplaying with me and giving me something to roleplay back with, I'll always look at maybe giving them less time. A bunch of Triads the other day shot at PD/SD and I killed Jerome I believe. He didn't even ask for Death RP, but since he'd roleplayed well, I offered it to him.

If someone starts non-rping or they start going off on a tangent OOC, I'm gunna do everything with the rules to make the arresting process as painful as possible.

The reason why I took the time to respond to this thread is because I agree with some of the points you guys raised. That being said though, I do find it disappointing sometimes that everyone in PD seems to get tarred with the same brush. There are a lot of good cops and some great people in LSPD and I don't want negative experiences with some of them to ruin that.

We ain't gunna get nowhere as players or factions or as a server or even as a community if we don't listen and compromise when we need to. I don't need to fucking win lmao, but I do need to be entertained when i'm playing.

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While I don't agree with the original post this topic started with as I believe that's a very petty point, some good points have been made. What we as faction leaders, in my case SD, do is take these on board and see where we can improve the general enjoyment for police roleplay. Reading this topic though makes everything seem bad which it is not. There are issues on a wider level which need to be addressed and the cases I've read here are not things we or PD encourage or allow. I will go as far as say that most of these interactions described in this topic were interactions with lower level members of either department. This is something we work on. I can say this for SD and I am sure PD does the same but we are constantly correcting such behaviour when we see it or are told about it. I take these things seriously, going as far as driving to a known gang and asking their leader if it was true he was arrested for calling one of my deputies an asshole. Neither SD nor PD leadership gloss over these things and we are keen on correcting the issues and making sure they are not repeated. It is true that PD took a bit of a hit when SD first started as quite a few experienced and strict members left to build SD. However, PD has filled most of the positions with equally as good people. The brunt of the issues does not come from the top, they are at the bottom levels. We see this in SD with trainees and ranks DS1 to DS3. We have made periods between promotions longer in order to give more time for the lower levels to adjust and fully understand what we expect in terms of role play. For the most part, this is working. Some cases do still arise however where we see an issue. You can however trust me that we do not allow such things and do not tolerate them. We talk to deputies and we correct ill behaviour. You have to take into account the progression that happens within SD and PD. Our trainees can not go out by themselves for at least 21 days, they are always accompanied by a trainer. We do this to try and prepare them and show them what we expect. Naturally, things that shouldn't happen, still do. But that is an issue that goes across all factions on the server. It is up to us faction leaders to try and mitigate the risks of this happening however. I can't speak for IA as I never had any interactions with IA myself while in PD, but in SD we do usually solve a case within a week, if not two in rare cases. Though I have to say, a lot of IA reports are complete bogus and they take time away from dealing with the actual issues. We have one reported been spammed to us 6 times in short succession, and each time triggering the IA process. That report was a waste of time which could have been allocated to solving actual cases. I know this is something most people do not want to hear, but PD and SD are not and will not unleash the full possibilities and consequences that would be justified in a state with such a high murder and crime rate. From an IC point of view, I have every justification I need to equip every single one of our deputies with an AR and authorize stop and search procedures on anyone wearing a known gang colour. ICly, this would be justified given the crimes, gangs and weaponry we face. But we don't do that. PD and SD, contrary to popular believe, are not looking to win every situation. We would utilize all tools and justifications if we were. You are seeing a PD and SD that are constraining themselves in action and reaction to the crime we face in order to give an enjoyable time in the server. We need criminials and you need the cops, it's simple.

SD and PD invest a lot of time every week in tracking what our members do, how much they work, if they log their arrests, duty reports, impounds, training sessions etc. We do what we can to ensure people are doing what they are supposed to do. Every week, supervisors are tasked with tracking everyone in the department, how much time they work, how many reports they write, what qualifications they have, if they do or do not provide training etc. This is done to monitor what is being done. This is something that takes hours of actual RL time, away from playing the game, where we sit and count reports, hours, trainings etc. etc. PD and SD are not just "log in get a gun" type of faction. Currently, it takes someone in SD a minimum of 51 days to be even eligible to apply for a shotgun, that is excluding the actual application and the potential failure of such application. We have strict rules on when heavy weapons can be deployed and who can do so. We recently suspended someone for the misuse of their weapons. You may think oh, what is a suspension going to do but you need to see the whole picture. The progression in PD and SD is something people aim for, they want to climb the ranks. A written warning and a suspension put off any and all promotions by at least 45 days from the date of the suspension. That is a severe hit in their progression and is definitely not something people take lightly within our factions.

A lot of good points have been made but I have also seen a lot of accusations and name calling that are nothing short of uproductive and harmful to the process of having an open dialogue. We are open to talk about things, anyone can message me on discord with an issue they have with a member of SD and we will talk about it. People have done that and they can confirm that I'll listen to the problem and try to resolve it. Coming on the forums only helps if it's constructive and to the point. We need to have an open dialogue because honestly, getting pulled over and being asked to identify yourself before you are being told why you are being pulled over is NRP? That's just not true. It's a petty claim. People also severely overestimate what they can or cannot do. I can't remember when I had the last traffic stop which did not involve a bunch of their gang members show up, cricle us and constantly barge in asking what's wrong. Do you realise how NRP that is? Your guy is getting a speeding ticket, you don't show up asking questions getting yourself arrested for obstruction of justice, that is NRP. We deal with a lot of issues on a daily basis that we don't come on here for accusing each and every criminal for. It is important to differentiate between what is good and what is bad. Yesterday I roleplayed a roadside inspection of a vehicle and the driver told me "I better leave because his boys are coming". Is that the kind of RP we are supposed to accept from a criminal point of view? It's not and I understand that these are isolated cases.

We need an open dialogue but it has to be constructive and I can assure you that a lot of issues either side has with each other, can be resolved if we do it reasonably and talk about things in a manner that is not aggressive.

 

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43 minutes ago, flow said:

While I don't agree with the original post this topic started with as I believe that's a very petty point, some good points have been made. What we as faction leaders, in my case SD, do is take these on board and see where we can improve the general enjoyment for police roleplay. Reading this topic though makes everything seem bad which it is not. There are issues on a wider level which need to be addressed and the cases I've read here are not things we or PD encourage or allow. I will go as far as say that most of these interactions described in this topic were interactions with lower level members of either department. This is something we work on. I can say this for SD and I am sure PD does the same but we are constantly correcting such behaviour when we see it or are told about it. I take these things seriously, going as far as driving to a known gang and asking their leader if it was true he was arrested for calling one of my deputies an asshole. Neither SD nor PD leadership gloss over these things and we are keen on correcting the issues and making sure they are not repeated. It is true that PD took a bit of a hit when SD first started as quite a few experienced and strict members left to build SD. However, PD has filled most of the positions with equally as good people. The brunt of the issues does not come from the top, they are at the bottom levels. We see this in SD with trainees and ranks DS1 to DS3. We have made periods between promotions longer in order to give more time for the lower levels to adjust and fully understand what we expect in terms of role play. For the most part, this is working. Some cases do still arise however where we see an issue. You can however trust me that we do not allow such things and do not tolerate them. We talk to deputies and we correct ill behaviour. You have to take into account the progression that happens within SD and PD. Our trainees can not go out by themselves for at least 21 days, they are always accompanied by a trainer. We do this to try and prepare them and show them what we expect. Naturally, things that shouldn't happen, still do. But that is an issue that goes across all factions on the server. It is up to us faction leaders to try and mitigate the risks of this happening however. I can't speak for IA as I never had any interactions with IA myself while in PD, but in SD we do usually solve a case within a week, if not two in rare cases. Though I have to say, a lot of IA reports are complete bogus and they take time away from dealing with the actual issues. We have one reported been spammed to us 6 times in short succession, and each time triggering the IA process. That report was a waste of time which could have been allocated to solving actual cases. I know this is something most people do not want to hear, but PD and SD are not and will not unleash the full possibilities and consequences that would be justified in a state with such a high murder and crime rate. From an IC point of view, I have every justification I need to equip every single one of our deputies with an AR and authorize stop and search procedures on anyone wearing a known gang colour. ICly, this would be justified given the crimes, gangs and weaponry we face. But we don't do that. PD and SD, contrary to popular believe, are not looking to win every situation. We would utilize all tools and justifications if we were. You are seeing a PD and SD that are constraining themselves in action and reaction to the crime we face in order to give an enjoyable time in the server. We need criminials and you need the cops, it's simple.

SD and PD invest a lot of time every week in tracking what our members do, how much they work, if they log their arrests, duty reports, impounds, training sessions etc. We do what we can to ensure people are doing what they are supposed to do. Every week, supervisors are tasked with tracking everyone in the department, how much time they work, how many reports they write, what qualifications they have, if they do or do not provide training etc. This is done to monitor what is being done. This is something that takes hours of actual RL time, away from playing the game, where we sit and count reports, hours, trainings etc. etc. PD and SD are not just "log in get a gun" type of faction. Currently, it takes someone in SD a minimum of 51 days to be even eligible to apply for a shotgun, that is excluding the actual application and the potential failure of such application. We have strict rules on when heavy weapons can be deployed and who can do so. We recently suspended someone for the misuse of their weapons. You may think oh, what is a suspension going to do but you need to see the whole picture. The progression in PD and SD is something people aim for, they want to climb the ranks. A written warning and a suspension put off any and all promotions by at least 45 days from the date of the suspension. That is a severe hit in their progression and is definitely not something people take lightly within our factions.

A lot of good points have been made but I have also seen a lot of accusations and name calling that are nothing short of uproductive and harmful to the process of having an open dialogue. We are open to talk about things, anyone can message me on discord with an issue they have with a member of SD and we will talk about it. People have done that and they can confirm that I'll listen to the problem and try to resolve it. Coming on the forums only helps if it's constructive and to the point. We need to have an open dialogue because honestly, getting pulled over and being asked to identify yourself before you are being told why you are being pulled over is NRP? That's just not true. It's a petty claim. People also severely overestimate what they can or cannot do. I can't remember when I had the last traffic stop which did not involve a bunch of their gang members show up, cricle us and constantly barge in asking what's wrong. Do you realise how NRP that is? Your guy is getting a speeding ticket, you don't show up asking questions getting yourself arrested for obstruction of justice, that is NRP. We deal with a lot of issues on a daily basis that we don't come on here for accusing each and every criminal for. It is important to differentiate between what is good and what is bad. Yesterday I roleplayed a roadside inspection of a vehicle and the driver told me "I better leave because his boys are coming". Is that the kind of RP we are supposed to accept from a criminal point of view? It's not and I understand that these are isolated cases.

We need an open dialogue but it has to be constructive and I can assure you that a lot of issues either side has with each other, can be resolved if we do it reasonably and talk about things in a manner that is not aggressive.

 

Like I stated earlier this your guys own fault. The excessive force and excessive use of threats has turned PD and SD into a joke. Reason why whenever you pull someone over for a crime who is affiliated mad people show up. The reason being the cops who is stopping may or may not be one who literally is one of the ones using excessive force. At that point, people have stopped trusting IA. Along with the news report regarding IA being biased.
The criminals are left with no choice but to take matters in their own hands. When showing up to a police department and only ever seeing the chief hanging out on the staircase with females, it shows he doesn't care for his job nor the citizens. Its very unprofessional. Along with calling 6 cops because you THINK a man doesn't have a valid permit so next thing you know, you have 7 cops around you with carbines out.
I have ran into the firearms permit issues 10 times in the past 24 hours. I carry a .50 with a valid permit. And instead of just asking to see my permit, they call in mass amounts of backup for literally no reason. Which wastes everyones time. Hate to say it but if your asking about someones gun and then hop on a radio in front of them requesting backup for a firearms check, well hate to say it, if the gun is illegal, you just put yourself as an officer at risk.

We can sit here all day going back and forth on this. Fact of the matter remains, PD and SD will not give out harsher punishments nor quicker punishments due to the lack of personnel on the force. Which leads me back to my original point. IA is in fact not doing their job.

The only solution to this goes to topics other people have said. Increase pay wages. From what I have heard, no first hand experience, I can get paid better money working as a mechanic or at Weazel than I can at PD. Was told by a cop today that if I sat in the mines for 8 hours, I would make more money than he does in 12. Seems a bit fucked to be honest. A person who wears a badge, is hated by all, and risks their life daily gets paid far less than the person sitting at the mines where the only risk is being robbed.

The pay system in general needs a massive overhaul when its comes to risk vs reward. As of right now, I feel PD and SD are lacking personnel due to this. I know a few officers from my alt, that quit PD and SD due to the lack of pay. And they moved on to better jobs or to mining. They couldn't afford going out and having fun on a police salary. Nor could they in the first place due to being so hated.

Something needs to change for an overall better RP experience for everyone. The current status is not at where it should be.

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