FearRP, Ruleplaying, NonRP, and Law enforcement.

[Demonmit1]

Ah shit, here we go again. This time, take this with a massive grain of salt, as I intend to play devils advocate here, and want to bring up this idea ive been chewing on. lets try and keep things civil please. There is a weird dynamic within the rules that affect Law Enforcement players interactions with criminals, and I'd like to discuss it with other players, both Crim and Law enforcement, as i think the topic is interesting.

So here's the dynamic im seeing:

Criminal players have made the argument in the past that a gun being pointed at them by law enforcement players shouldn't hold the same weight with fearRP as a non law enforcement. There's an expectation that law enforcement players have to follow the IC rules and OOC RP rules of their faction, and with the threat of deadly force, are regularly ICly not allowed to use deadly force. So there's this awkward dynamic that forms where, Law enforcement can put a player under fearRP, but using those DM rights and shooting a player for breaking fearRP would then result in the law enforcement player potentially breaking nonRP rules and their OOC faction rules.

So, ive got a couple questions,

If a cop draws a gun with no realistic threat of using it, knowing the other player has figured that out and is likely to just run or pull, then continues to lean on FearRP, is that ruleplaying?
Do you think it's fair that LEOs are expected to enforce FearRP with firearms, when they’re also punished for using them in ways a civilian might not be?
Is it ruleplaying when someone uses the threat of force they realistically can’t use to compel behavior from another player?
If criminals break FearRP because they know the cop won’t shoot, is that not also Ruleplaying?

Edited June 23, 2025 by Demonmit1

[Mrpyth0n33]

16 minutes ago, Demonmit1 said:

If criminals break FearRP because they know the cop won’t shoot, is that not also Ruleplaying?

Cops won't shoot? That's news to me and I'm playing devil's advocate on the other side as well, no harm meant here just saying it how I see it on the other side of a cops gun lol, I have had a gun drawn on me instead off a razer, without a gun in hand or direct lethal threat, I personally won't try and run if I see a lethal pulled on me or pull mine, I guess it depends but I would not even pull a gun comfortably on a tazer pointed at me I'd lose the fight lol, but trust me cops open fire more often then not when met with a threat, so crim saying a cop can't shoot is wild, irl in some countries cops would not use lethal UNLESS actively being shot at but at a criminal running away they would not use lethal resisting arrest, they would not shoot, but that's only my opinion, what another interesting topic is, would be cops need to give proper demands, according to their lore, for eg.an investigation was held and ends in a lab they should be held accountable for announcing themselves as there and a form of demands, such as LSPD surrender or force will be used= to everyone in the labs hands up or you will be shot, from a crim pushing a lab, like make it fair for the people inside to know a fight might break out and not just a sniper round or 55 heavies going off and them not knowing it's the cops till it's too late, as said in the other post I don't regularly do labs just the reports, encounters iv been told of icly by friends of mine after their doc time, also not bashing LEOs just an interesting topic hope it doesn't become a toxic discussion 

[SquirtleSquad]

44 minutes ago, Demonmit1 said:

If a cop draws a gun with no realistic threat of using it, knowing the other player has figured that out and is likely to just run or pull, then continues to lean on FearRP, is that ruleplaying?
Do you think it's fair that LEOs are expected to enforce FearRP with firearms, when they’re also punished for using them in ways a civilian might not be?
Is it ruleplaying when someone uses the threat of force they realistically can’t use to compel behavior from another player?
If criminals break FearRP because they know the cop won’t shoot, is that not also Ruleplaying?

Server rules are for all players, Law Enforcement, crim, GOV, MD, BurgerShot worker, Joe Doe walking down the street. There's not "server rules only for LEO" and "server rules for non-LEO". Factions have their own internal policies, but end of the day, you break FearRP whether LEO will or won't shoot. A gun is a gun is a gun.

[Quietthecutie]

been here before, so ill just repeat what I said back then.

FRP Rules are clear. No player is immune to the threat of death regardless of backstory.

If someone is pointing a gun at you, point blank, shouldn't matter if they are dressed as a gangbanger, a cop, or a clown. a gun is a gun. one twitch of the finger and you're dead. Cop shootings happen all the time. If its your life on the line. you should do absolutely everything within your power to not get shot, that means being compliant.

TLDR, Value your life.

[addybeta]

23 hours ago, SquirtleSquad said:

Server rules are for all players, Law Enforcement, crim, GOV, MD, BurgerShot worker, Joe Doe walking down the street. There's not "server rules only for LEO" and "server rules for non-LEO". Factions have their own internal policies, but end of the day, you break FearRP whether LEO will or won't shoot. A gun is a gun is a gun.

Well thats not entirely true now is it. Im also going to be playing devils advocate and say that server rules are not for LEO factions. An example of this is an OOC pager to call more units to a situation, which no other faction can do and is against server rules. 

I agree with the fact that if a criminal is running for a minor crime, and an officer pulls a gun on them, then they are ruleplaying the fear rp and forcing them. Why should a criminal comply when they ICly know that the cop does not have enough grounds to shoot them? If a cop does pull a gun and a criminal decides to run away, it should be on the officer to decide if it is worth shooting, and then work with the DM rule. 

[SquirtleSquad]

Just now, addybeta said:

Well thats not entirely true now is it. Im also going to be playing devils advocate and say that server rules are not for LEO factions. An example of this is an OOC pager to call more units to a situation, which no other faction can do and is against server rules. 

Pagers are approved from Legal Faction Management. This is a strawman argument.

 

[addybeta]

Point is that rules are different, so there is nothing stopping the Fear RP rule to be ammended for LEO's

[Hubie]

+1 I agree, remove the pager. Makes no sense whatsoever. According to server rules, it would be metagaming but since it's LEO, it's fine.


To comment on the original post, I fully agree. When you evade and there's 20 cruisers, and eventually you stall, attempt to get out and run, you are just insta put under FRP, which in my opinion, it just ruins all RP that could have been done. 

Edited June 24, 2025 by Lincoln Derose

[CharlesXiao]

18 minutes ago, SquirtleSquad said:

Pagers are approved from Legal Faction Management. This is a strawman argument.

So your just admitting that LFM allows LEO to break server rules..... 

Imo pager shouldn't be a discord thing (aka metagaming). Pager should alert any OFF-Duty LEO's that are in game already.

[tangy]

38 minutes ago, SquirtleSquad said:

Pagers are approved from Legal Faction Management. This is a strawman argument.

 

What addybeta said isn't a strawman argument at all, It's just a fact that the rules of the server apply differently to the LEO side (THIS ISN'T NECESSARILY A BAD THING). Perfect example is the OOC pager. I have never understood why crims are not allowed to pager, never heard a solid reasoning as to why they can't. Realistically speaking there is nothing stopping me from me ringing my good mate Harvey Xing and waking him up if he is asleep. I do agree that once upon a time cops were SEVERLY outnumbered and outgunned but this was around 4 years ago, its maybe about time to change a few of the rules. Just because it was approved by LFM doesn't make it any more fair. 

A lot of servers use a OOC means to tell people to get online because xyz is happening, and I think a perfect way of doing it is having a dedicated discord channel in every gangs official discord where staff can also watch and police what is said and shared. You would NOT be allowed to pager unless you're an official faction, could also maybe tie it to a certain tier as a reward, just another general benefit of working toward being official. 

I do not want anyone thinking that what I am saying is just to hate on LEO's, I fully understand and agree that a pager system makes sense, however it makes sense for crims also. 

And with what the original post was a about, far too many situations began with immediate lethal response, not only is it NOT FUN but it doesn't make too much sense. Yes you can pull lethal but there are a huge number of situations in real life that even if a officer has pulled his side arm on a person, the person does just bolt or attempt to do so. I don't think it should be immediate FearRP

 

Edited June 24, 2025 by tangy

[addybeta]

I dont want to turn this into a pager debate, it was just used as an example of how rules are different. Im not going to dwelve deeper into wether or not LEO or crims should have pagers, just saying that there is no reason to not modify the Fear RP rule for LEO's.

[Nettz]

20 minutes ago, tangy said:

Perfect example is the OOC pager

Hello Jameson, You're so correct! We just had the OOC pager rung for us a few weeks back! (there was 6 of us total.) This makes no sense to me at all, as it's just a system that is abused nowadays. I see no point in LEO getting an exception when everyday they have almost double the numbers of criminal gangs. Do not even get me started on how much backup is abused as-well (backup breach is applied to criminal factions but not the separate factions PD/SD).

I think a re-work of the rules would be a great suggestion!

Edited June 24, 2025 by Nettz

[astrx]

38 minutes ago, CharlesXiao said:

So your just admitting that LFM allows LEO to break server rules..... 

Imo pager shouldn't be a discord thing (aka metagaming). Pager should alert any OFF-Duty LEO's that are in game already.

No, LFM does not "allow LEO to break rules", ridiculous way of taking that to be honest. Although I do really like your idea of a pager, used by a command, to alert off-duty online officers.

I personally do not like the pager system either, and that is coming from a player who has EXTENSIVE experience with LEO and Criminal roleplay. I think it's a silly thing but unfortunately it's a thing, so we have to deal with it.

[CharlesXiao]

2 minutes ago, Astrx said:

No, LFM does not "allow LEO to break rules", ridiculous way of taking that to be honest.

I mean that's what it is. 

"Communicating In-Character events, actions, and decisions, with another player on a 3rd party software e.g. discord."

It's right here in the rulebook.... 

1 hour ago, SquirtleSquad said:

Pagers are approved from Legal Faction Management.

Pagers are approved via LFM. But pagers go directly against the rulebook, so tell me how is it ridiculous to think this when the answers are right in front of me.

[Demonmit1]

just to nip this pager thing in the butt, if you want to discuss pagers, do it here please:
 

I do see the argument being made that pagers are an example of rules being different between law enforcement and criminals. thats a fair point to make.

[jdotmo]

As a full time crim I would love for there to be a difference in how fear RP works against cops pulling a gun on a crim. its just not realistic from any perspective. In reality if the criminal is unarmed/not a threat to the cops life, the cop shouldn't and "can't" shoot them as you mention. I think yes if cops are pulling there firearm just to initiate fear rp I think that is considered Rule playing. But on the contrary isn't there a "Use of force matrix" (Never got passed my FTOs so help me out here lol). Does this not encompass when your firearm should be drawn? If not this might be a good change. The issue is I just think in the long term of things it would never be a realistic change for LEOs as much as would enjoy it. People would take advantage. They would run away, call for backup and LEOs would just get obliterated cause now DM rights are given. There is no game mechanic to catch up with anybody running away from you. (Skill checks for vaulting could be cool).

Never been a cop so let me know if I am mistaken on any of this.

[alexalex303]

I'd be in favor if such a change, only if running at gunpoint instantly granted DM rights with no questions asked. The cop can face IC repercussions, but at the OOC level, if someone runs, they should be subject to being shot. 

[jdotmo]

2 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

I'd be in favor if such a change, only if running at gunpoint instantly granted DM rights with no questions asked. The cop can face IC repercussions, but at the OOC level, if someone runs, they should be subject to being shot. 

I think this would be an awesome change. Police brutality RP here we come lmao

[David Coast]

4 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

I'd be in favor if such a change, only if running at gunpoint instantly granted DM rights with no questions asked. The cop can face IC repercussions, but at the OOC level, if someone runs, they should be subject to being shot. 

Would be abused on the crim side. No IC repercussions for crims.

[inorigj]

25 minutes ago, David Coast said:

Would be abused on the crim side. No IC repercussions for crims.

I see what you're saying. but, you're saying it as if that's not how crims act currently.....

I've never once seen a crim pull a gun on a random player telling them to stop. drop roll play dead hands up what ever, to then have the person they aim at run and NOT get shot.

if a crim aims a gun at someone and tells them to stop. and they run. they'll shoot. against the rules or not. that's how it is. always has been since day 1.

The only thing that would change by adding what @alexalex303 said, would be that now cops can do what crims already do. and trust me. I'd fear cops way more if that was the case.

[alexalex303]

2 hours ago, David Coast said:

Would be abused on the crim side. No IC repercussions for crims.

If you have someone at gunpoint, you're in a strong position. Hiding behind the rules is ruleplaying. If someone runs at gunpoint from a crim they should be able to be shot. Anything else is just being protected by the rules.

[PufferBulletin]

.

Edited June 26, 2025 by PufferBulletin

[Eliza]

For the fearRP with law enforcement aspect, I think some changes should happen, because it kinda feels ruleplay-y just going “oh you’re not doing what I’m telling you, now I have a gun at you, now you have to”

On the other side of that coin though, you don’t know if the cop is corrupt and will just shoot you anyways, so there still needs to be a level of fear.

[Demonmit1]

The relevance of this topic I believe has come up again with the recent nerf to tasers. Tasers needed a nerf no doubt, but I feel that two uses out of a taser is going to now put law enforcement into more situations where they will need to pull a gun on a non compliant suspect, putting them under fear rp to get compliance. 

 

It's going to be an interesting few weeks to see how this plays out, and what comes of it for how rules are interpreted and enforced.

[astrx]

23 minutes ago, Demonmit1 said:

The relevance of this topic I believe has come up again with the recent nerf to tasers. Tasers needed a nerf no doubt, but I feel that two uses out of a taser is going to now put law enforcement into more situations where they will need to pull a gun on a non compliant suspect, putting them under fear rp to get compliance. 

 

It's going to be an interesting few weeks to see how this plays out, and what comes of it for how rules are interpreted and enforced.

The issue here is not the tazers, it's the players. LEO's should be utilising their resources, they have; Tazers, Melee Weapons, roleplay, Forceful Commands and of course, Firearms. Firearms should be (in my opinion) the last option to use. Afaik, the cuffing whilst stunned has been fixed to where you can now do that. Should you not be able to do that, roleplay with the suspect, it is their responsibility to respond to this roleplay realistically, if they don't then a report can be made for refusal to roleplay.

I have witnessed many cops not actually using the recourses they have available to them and instead over-tazing suspects and just complaining about it. Please please please just look at this from a broader perspective and actually understand the reasoning behind this change.