New cuffing/ tackling

[surg3yy]

Remove this please additions like these take rp out of situations and only allow for higher chances of power gaming for instance a crim gets pulled over on a bike the cop hops out of his car and full sends tackled him and immediately cuffs him where is the opportunity for roleplay? And the new miny game for cuffing seems a bit un needed. I really feel like this addition dose more bad than good only benefits cops / legals 99% of the time, and takes some of the uniqueness away from eclipse and makes it look more like some random five m server.

this in no way is in a disrespect manner and the addition of new drug effects and guns have made these last months of ecrp more fun than prior times but I feel like this change was only added to one heavily benefit pd/sd or two just added to add something new but not really wanted .

[paroshh]

[Tanner04]

+1 

[HobGoblin]

-1 give it time for people to adjust to

[DillonBing]

17 minutes ago, HobGoblin said:

-1 give it time for people to adjust to

This is RAGE not FiveM where every script is the same, people play RAGE because it's different no one has asked for this same with no one asked for these drug effects and nerfed crim money ie no drug boosting, bank packs are lower and chopping parts are shit.

+1 get rid

[a1ex]

-1

I enjoy the function and have utilised it from both a criminal and legal side, I don't see any downside to this function other than its weird hotkey placing. Like was said before give people time to adjust and I'm sure it'll be a good thing as it adds variety and more script support to what people do through rp anyways.

From a legal side this adds more variety and more opportunities for RP especially with this function being enabled for both LEO and crim

From a crim side it leaves resisting to more than just luck with /dice, it also prevents people from running from RP by adding a script alternative.

I feel that it could be abused by a small number of people but also it just replaces "/me attempts to grab the man" if it is used properly and in the correct scenarios. Anyone who has used the tackle feature knows that the range is limited and you have to be fairly accurate for it to actually work, from a crim perspective its a lot easier to predict than someone running up to you and typing out rp then basing the outcome on the result of a /dice.

Edited December 25, 2023 by a1ex

[Clank]

2 hours ago, surg3yy said:

Remove this please additions like these take rp out of situations and only allow for higher chances of power gaming for instance a crim gets pulled over on a bike the cop hops out of his car and full sends tackled him and immediately cuffs him where is the opportunity for roleplay? And the new miny game for cuffing seems a bit un needed. I really feel like this addition dose more bad than good only benefits cops / legals 99% of the time, and takes some of the uniqueness away from eclipse and makes it look more like some random five m server.

this in no way is in a disrespect manner and the addition of new drug effects and guns have made these last months of ecrp more fun than prior times but I feel like this change was only added to one heavily benefit pd/sd or two just added to add something new but not really wanted .

You have the opportunity to resist being cuffed now instead of the RP ending as soon as the taser is pulled and used. Is this a case of it being a negative change or just a case of people being afraid of change?

 

You talk about "opportunity for roleplay" right? With no flame intended or disrespect can you provide me pictures of RP opportunities you have created? Please practice what you're preaching and be a positive example by showing us what you mean by creating opportunities for RP.

[surg3yy]

31 minutes ago, Clank said:

You have the opportunity to resist being cuffed now instead of the RP ending as soon as the taser is pulled and used. Is this a case of it being a negative change or just a case of people being afraid of change?

 

You talk about "opportunity for roleplay" right? With no flame intended or disrespect can you provide me pictures of RP opportunities you have created? Please practice what you're preaching and be a positive example by showing us what you mean by creating opportunities for RP.

Remember that Going out of your way to be toxic On forums is considered ooc toxicity And i will not waste my time trying to prove what i do and don't do on ECRP when your only argument is attacking what i do for my rp?

Having a mini game where you can stop the cuff dose not add more rp it adds another script and that script in my opinion takes rp away instead of adding because now instead of having a good and valid reason to stop the cuffing through rp its just a mini game

[Bala]

I'll be honest, I feel quite underwhelmed and disappointed by the execution of both the cuffing and the tackling. Given significance of the cuffing process and the impact that being able to tackle, I would have expected more extensive testing and also, perhaps seeking out a wider range of opinions (especially on the cuffing from the other, bigger law enforcement faction on the server) on how if I'm completely honest.

The fact that the cuffing process has been implemented without ample time to brief the people using it on the change, beyond the patch notes is bad communication.

I've always tried to subscribed to the belief that you only get one chance to make a first impression and both of them are bugged and seem somewhat rushed into existence, which instantly forms a negative opinion. I know from my own experiences how this can backfire (Low Power Street, invisible wall at Mission Row etc..)

Both personally and for the server in general, I'm all for this recent development wave and hope it's the start of something, rather than the conclusion of something but if I'm honest, both of these things were way down the priority list. 

I'm certainly not someone that is afraid of change, but what does concern me is things of this importance, arriving in the state they have and in the way they have.

On the subject of tackling, I believe it's actually a good idea. Being able to effect a player in a non-lethal way is certainly interesting but I would have perhaps expected more from this. 

• A user-friendly way to execute a tackle, not just by running into a door and unlocking it.
• The use of food items or an in-game gym to strengthen your character.
• Each character's strength value playing a role in whether or not they can tackle someone, for how long they can keep them down and whether or not that person can reverse that tackle.

But those are things you set up BEFORE you add the tackling, to get players familiar with how it will work.

Something significant like player tackling, not only needs to be grounded in reality and user friendly to do. It also needs to be explained in documentation.

On the subject of cuffing, there was absolutely nothing wrong with roleplaying it out. Don't think this one needed to change and certainly did not need to be a minigame. I don't really want to adjust to it. It feels like we solved one issue with the taser and made another one with this, to be honest. 

All I wanted was the beanbag shotgun. 

[Astrx]

I am glad that these threads get made to discuss the recent changes and what people's first impressions are, what isn't good however is that they 100% of the time will and has once again turned into an argument thread. Toxic comments need to stop before they get worse along with the back and forth, keep comments on topic or staff can and will close down the thread.

My personal opinions on the tackling script is that it is a large step in the right direction. With what Bala said is true and good but what people cease to understand is, the update was made and released less than a day ago. A larger timeframe needs to be given to critique such an addition in such a way, I too would love a lot of tweaks and fixes with the scripts but that will come with time. 

I love the tackling as it gives all players a good chance to intervene with certain situations and events and gives a proper way to have and provide more fun. For me looking at it from a large LEO side of things. I personally hate over tazing people as it doesn't give any fun for the situation or the players involved. Tackling has made a way for LEO's and other players alike a chance to take the situation in a great way and have fun with it too. 

The thing that I do not particularly like is the cuffing that comes with the tackle script as It's rather flawed and broken. I'm not sure what is possible on RAGEMP as I know that it has it's limitations but a more realistic animation for cuffing would be good with the actual skill check being just after the animation starts giving more of a chance to actually react. LEO's are required to shout out that they are going to be cuffing the suspect with something along the lines of "going for cuffs!" and then cuffing them to give ample time for the suspect to react to the skill check and have a fair chance of being able to escape.

This is good and hopefully with further fixes and tweaks this will be a really good addition. 

1 hour ago, Bala said:

On the subject of cuffing, there was absolutely nothing wrong with roleplaying it out. Don't think this one needed to change and certainly did not need to be a minigame. I don't really want to adjust to it. It feels like we solved one issue with the taser and made another one with this, to be honest. 

This being said, the only thing I have to say against it is that without the cuffing part of this, the tackling is made slightly obsolete. If you tackle a player after running after them then have to stop for around 5-10 seconds to write out the RP for cuffing someone makes things rather slowed down and silly. Being able to cuff someone right after a tackle is great and should be a thing but as stated above needs to be tweaked and fixed.

My opinions for changes:

• The cuffing radius needs to be significantly lowered.
• Cuffing animation to be made more realistic instead of just twiddling your hands a bit to cuff them.
• Cuffing animation starts then around a second after the animation starts the skill check comes up (Cops are already making this easier by shouting when they are cuffing anyways).
• More ways to make tackling activity based (Bala's suggestion of the gym or steroids are a really good idea for this).
• Maybe take a steroids (or other drugs too) and for the next 30 seconds you can be immune to a single tackle attempt from another player then the buff wears off.

I'm sure there is a lot more that can be done but this is just my first impressions and ideas.

[alexalex303]

I respect your opinion Amir, but I believe in general unless it's a very simple change (number tweaking), we should allow feature changes to settle in before we become negative with them. People will adjust to the tackle pros and cons, and I think they have interesting applications for criminal roleplayers as well (mainly knocking people off bikes).

[Marcusandrew31]

10 hours ago, Bala said:

I'll be honest, I feel quite underwhelmed and disappointed by the execution of both the cuffing and the tackling. Given significance of the cuffing process and the impact that being able to tackle, I would have expected more extensive testing and also, perhaps seeking out a wider range of opinions (especially on the cuffing from the other, bigger law enforcement faction on the server) on how if I'm completely honest.

The fact that the cuffing process has been implemented without ample time to brief the people using it on the change, beyond the patch notes is bad communication.

I've always tried to subscribed to the belief that you only get one chance to make a first impression and both of them are bugged and seem somewhat rushed into existence, which instantly forms a negative opinion. I know from my own experiences how this can backfire (Low Power Street, invisible wall at Mission Row etc..)

Both personally and for the server in general, I'm all for this recent development wave and hope it's the start of something, rather than the conclusion of something but if I'm honest, both of these things were way down the priority list. 

I'm certainly not someone that is afraid of change, but what does concern me is things of this importance, arriving in the state they have and in the way they have.

On the subject of tackling, I believe it's actually a good idea. Being able to effect a player in a non-lethal way is certainly interesting but I would have perhaps expected more from this. 

• A user-friendly way to execute a tackle, not just by running into a door and unlocking it.
• The use of food items or an in-game gym to strengthen your character.
• Each character's strength value playing a role in whether or not they can tackle someone, for how long they can keep them down and whether or not that person can reverse that tackle.

But those are things you set up BEFORE you add the tackling, to get players familiar with how it will work.

Something significant like player tackling, not only needs to be grounded in reality and user friendly to do. It also needs to be explained in documentation.

On the subject of cuffing, there was absolutely nothing wrong with roleplaying it out. Don't think this one needed to change and certainly did not need to be a minigame. I don't really want to adjust to it. It feels like we solved one issue with the taser and made another one with this, to be honest. 

All I wanted was the beanbag shotgun. 

I actually agree with you here, i think that it is a good addition but i do believe it needs some work. and defiantly some rules along with it. i mean i could just imagine how people will abuse this in situations.

[surg3yy]

19 hours ago, alexalex303 said:

I respect your opinion Amir, but I believe in general unless it's a very simple change (number tweaking), we should allow feature changes to settle in before we become negative with them. People will adjust to the tackle pros and cons, and I think they have interesting applications for criminal roleplayers as well (mainly knocking people off bikes).

I completely understand your point and I really do respect it all I'm asking is what is stopping someone from abusing this feature in-game Like others who had commented I think at least make some new rules around the usage of tackling so its not abused.

[Cup]

I think we all just need to give it a little time to breath. Its new, New always has its upsides and downsides and things that need to be tweaked.

[Nettz]

I agree with everyone saying we need more time with this. It's only been 2 days since this was implemented, and we should wait to form a more solid opinion on it until after a few weeks/months.

[Smoke1]

if the mini game is to fast maybe slow it down a tad? having a leo character that doesn't use macro its nice to not /me attempts to cuff, But the criminal character in me usually always /do able, If i wanted to attempt to /me resists and /dice its all gone.. the RP for automation although is nice does remove RP from the server for a fast press space mini game. and the tackle i feel needs a cool down anyone LEO or crim who's been to DOC gets it lol

[BlueFlame]

+1 please remove

[Purely]

-1

I think that this change is positive, and doesn't take away RP as claimed.

As for tacking, being in a foot chase has always been rinse and repeat for the past few years. If you're close enough to the LEO - you get tazed, and cuffed, if you're too far then you probably get boxed in and cuffed. Having a different option that allows both sides of a scenario to attempt to outplay each other in a light-hearted and enjoyable way will improve the experience of the player. In addition, the tackling has been used in a fun way already by players, simply to have fun with each other in their own groups, and I'm sure that the rag dolling will be improved, etc. But even as it stands now it's been widely received as fun.

For the cuffing, perhaps a small 5% of cuffing RP could be considered interesting. Just yesterday, I was tazed, and by the time I was recovered, somebody typed out "/me attempts to pull her arms to the rear." and I replied, "/me would try and resist." They said "/do How?" and I said, "/do by pulling her arms away". As soon as I typed that out, they took a step back, shot me with a tazer again then repeated their line of roleplay. There is no development there and it doesn't provide a positive experience for me. With this new system, it's going to take a slow, boring, and repetitive situation, which you're probably going to lose as a portion of members in certain factions will taze you until the "/b you can't resist because you've been tazed 3 times" message, to a dynamic, and much quicker (in a good way) situation. 

[Sico]

I do not know where I stand in this discussion, it is a nice addition but at the same time it is really easy to be abused and create unfair situations.

[HobGoblin]

1 hour ago, Sico said:

I do not know where I stand in this discussion, it is a nice addition but at the same time it is really easy to be abused and create unfair situations.

How so?

[Sico]

36 minutes ago, HobGoblin said:

How so?

From what ive seen people keep just running around tackling eachother repeatedly

[Jett_J]

The only thing I don't like is that you can just infinitely tackle someone making it impossible for them to stand up until you let them. Other than that I like the new tackle/cuff systems.

[HobGoblin]

1 hour ago, Jett_J said:

The only thing I don't like is that you can just infinitely tackle someone making it impossible for them to stand up until you let them. Other than that I like the new tackle/cuff systems.

Can this still happen? A cooldown was added awhile back.  

[SquirtleSquad]

6 hours ago, HobGoblin said:

Can this still happen? A cooldown was added awhile back.  

Yes it can. Cooldown isn't in alignment with the time you're tackled. One person can perma tackle another. The thing that was fixed was cancel animation which still holds the tackle script, and the pressing B to insta stand. However, I think there's a pending patch to fix this further, unless I misread the Bug Reports

[inorigj]

On 12/27/2023 at 8:57 PM, Purely said:

"/me attempts to pull her arms to the rear." and I replied, "/me would try and resist." They said "/do How?" and I said, "/do by pulling her arms away". As soon as I typed that out, they took a step back, shot me with a tazer again then repeated their line of roleplay. There is no development there and it doesn't provide a positive experience for me

This is the reason I was all for the adding of the cuff minigame. I was suggesting this over and over. I work at DOC. and i see several PD, SD and DOC people my self sometimes included. do this where we wait. look at the final /do and then shoot the tazer before the 10-15 can even start moving or get off a swing. I hate this as Legal and crim. its no fun. Its just Powergaming with sugar sprinkles. the /do's in this case isn't giving the criminal any "options" its just letting them chat with you about how they'd try to get away.

 

And for the officers who responds with "Well, they shouldn't be doing that" I know. We all know. its been a thing since 2017. it's not suddenly going to change.

 

-1

 

I do however find it very annoying that I'm tackling every external door I'm opening at DOC. that I wish was fixed lmao