"Hands up this is a rob" mentality...

[Denni]

So, I'm not usually one to start one of these threads on the forums. However, after role-playing as a relatively shady grandma but in secret; I've encountered some real horrendous role-play.

Now, I'm not perfect and even after over a year and a half on the server; I still want to push my role-play further. However, you can't even role-play with some individuals because they cannot follow simple things... Such as, allowing you time to respond to RP, kill you even when you comply and actually provide no role-play whatsoever.

It makes me feel bad for the staff and people when all they experience is this. On my Police Officer character I don't get this as much as I usually just get the poor RP that gets dealt with quickly, but as a civilian getting robbed isn't the problem, the problem is getting robbed all the time and POORLY. 

I wish people got out of the mentality of cops and robbers. It isn't that, it shouldn't be that, it never should have been that. We have an influx of new players, who get banned (see latest report that I've posted of a situation with real crappy role-play) and then staff get moaned at because there aren't enough players.

It's probably because people can't role-play and everyone's goal is to be rich. That isn't role-play. Go play GTA Online if you want that.

(Sorry, rant over)

[BrockOlly]

Hands up this is Bob

[Denni]

1 minute ago, BrockOlly said:

Hands up this is Bob

Thank you, for your brilliant contribution Bob.

[BrockOlly]

In all seriousness, you're right, but it's close to impossible to change the mentality of a large group of players like this, sadly. 

[alexalex303]

In every roleplaying community I've been in, across a wide arrawy of games, the vast majority of people want to make large amounts of money, and the roleplay comes second to that.

I don't think that there is any cure for this, and the only hope for improving things is to be change that you want to see. 

Edited December 26, 2018 by Darnell

[Denni]

8 minutes ago, BrockOlly said:

In all seriousness, you're right, but it's close to impossible to change the mentality of a large group of players like this, sadly. 

I agree. Just take a look here: 

 

Just now, Darnell said:

In every roleplaying community, in every game I've ever played, the vast majority of people want to make large amounts of money, and the roleplay comes second to it.

I don't think that there is any cure for this, and the only hope for improving things is to be change that you want to see. 

I agree, but you can't teach stupid! 

 

[Commander783]

I guess these players want thrill and a quick success with little effort.

There should be a point in improving the server for civilians and to make the civilian life fun.
They added a lot for criminals. So the server as well, shifted more into the criminal direction.
They added stuff for PD and MD in response as well.

But the community wanted it (back then) and I don't really mind.
Non government, civilian jobs are a shore and you are always alone and there should be an actual way, in requesting goods from companies or players and then players would have to fullfill deliveries and receive money for it, for example. So these players are not left out as well, who play a civilian part and get some interaction as well.

Not everyone is creative enough, not everyone is smart enough, not everyone wants to be a "good person".

That's the subconscious feeling, I have from the server, if I look on the overall community.

Edited December 26, 2018 by Com783

[Denni]

1 minute ago, Com783 said:

I guess these players want thrill and a quick success with little effort.

There should be a point in improving the server for civilians and to make the civilian life fun.
They added a lot for criminals. So the server as well, shifted more into the criminal direction.
They added stuff for PD and MD in response as well.

But the community wanted it (back then) and I don't really mind.
Non government, civilian jobs are a shore and you are always alone and there should be an actual way, in requesting goods from companies or players and then players would have to fullfill deliveries and receive money for it, for example. So these players are not left out as well, who play a civilian part and get some interaction as well.

Not everyone is creative enough, not everyone is smart enough, not everyone wants to be a "good person".

That's the subconscious feeling, I have from the server, if I look on the overall community.

Not everyone needs to be a good person. I, on my civilian grandma character, don't want to belong to a gang but I don't want to have a faction job either... I make my money here and there, and I know my way around and have met some good people with good RP. However, I don't like this cops vs robbers mentality. I do agree, more stuff for civilians is needed.

[gohena]

On 12/26/2018 at 2:15 PM, Denni said:

Not everyone needs to be a good person. I, on my civilian grandma character, don't want to belong to a gang but I don't want to have a faction job either... I make my money here and there, and I know my way around and have met some good people with good RP. However, I don't like this cops vs robbers mentality. I do agree, more stuff for civilians is needed.

Literally half of my RP encounters since i left the PD a few days ago and started meeting with strangers rping a civilian have been , "Hands up or i will shoot" in very thick accents none stop over mic until i am frisked and robbed. There should be a rule against instant robberies without any prior RP. I normally like to type when i meet someone i think it makes the RP more immersive, but by the time i am half way through a sentence i have guns already drawn on me...

Edited December 30, 2018 by gohena

[iSeeYou]

I really do agree on your points regarding "Mug on Sight" and "Rob on Sight" its really poor and i've even been confirmed by one of the gang leaders they actually play for "loot" rather than RP. I've been around for almost 2 years and it seems to get worse by time.. The only enjoy i get these days is actually robbing these poor RPers.

Also about the money issue there should be more stuff to spend money on but what i cant tell unfortunately and the same goes for jobs, we need more activities for "normal" players that just wanna enjoy being around people. Which we used to have with the old fishing system. This is also where i have some of my best moments with people on this server, but it seems like the server is going a wrong direction but i wont blame any staff members for this as they're doing their best to improve RP etc.

One of the problems with Robbing on Sight is that new players gets greeded with this and dont even get a change to RP most of the time.

Keep up the good work with your Grandma character, i enjoyed RPing with you getting us cars in exchange for blunts. Need more people with that mentality and i deeply hope people will start RPing some more instead of robbing everyone on sight.

[DISCO]

Honestly - with the attitude of staff about punishing and not teaching/painting boundaries of RP, this community doesnt deserve anything better than "5 seconds hands up"". Why? Because I hear only that "community is showing poor RP", but nothing has even been done to teach it. You have a community - you have to work with it. Props to one guy creating videos how to RP 101, but that just helps new people, it doesnt help people, who has >100k XP and still screws over NLR and FearRP and thats the whole point why it happens - nobody is setting a standart/showing an examples of high level of RP.

[Denni]

1 hour ago, gohena said:

Literally half of my RP encounters since i left the PD a few days ago and started meeting with strangers rping a civilian have been , "Hands up or i will shoot" in very thick accents none stop over mic until i am frisked and robbed. There should be a rule against instant robberies without any prior RP. I normally like to type when i meet someone i think it makes the RP more immersive, but by the time i am half way through a sentence i have guns already drawn on me...

Yeah I've had a few of those on my non LSPD character. 

54 minutes ago, iSeeYou said:

I really do agree on your points regarding "Mug on Sight" and "Rob on Sight" its really poor and i've even been confirmed by one of the gang leaders they actually play for "loot" rather than RP. I've been around for almost 2 years and it seems to get worse by time.. The only enjoy i get these days is actually robbing these poor RPers.

Also about the money issue there should be more stuff to spend money on but what i cant tell unfortunately and the same goes for jobs, we need more activities for "normal" players that just wanna enjoy being around people. Which we used to have with the old fishing system. This is also where i have some of my best moments with people on this server, but it seems like the server is going a wrong direction but i wont blame any staff members for this as they're doing their best to improve RP etc.

One of the problems with Robbing on Sight is that new players gets greeded with this and dont even get a change to RP most of the time.

Keep up the good work with your Grandma character, i enjoyed RPing with you getting us cars in exchange for blunts. Need more people with that mentality and i deeply hope people will start RPing some more instead of robbing everyone on sight.

It's not all about money for me. My LSPD character is a cop, my grandma is poor but hella shady and my new character... well, you'll see ;). 

5 minutes ago, DISCO said:

Honestly - with the attitude of staff about punishing and not teaching/painting boundaries of RP, this community doesnt deserve anything better than "5 seconds hands up"". Why? Because I hear only that "community is showing poor RP", but nothing has even been done to teach it. You have a community - you have to work with it. Props to one guy creating videos how to RP 101, but that just helps new people, it doesnt help people, who has >100k XP and still screws over NLR and FearRP and thats the whole point why it happens - nobody is setting a standart/showing an examples of high level of RP.

We'll be adding more videos next week for new and old players. 

[clickclack]

This robbery mentality is getting worse, it's ruining the purpose of the term "roleplay" this is no joke. Like for real this is gonna be a big problem soon.

[Vasquez]

I read the report you made, in which one of the guys who broke the rules, said;
 

Quote

I mean you role play too much since you want it to be real life
[Few comments further down]
 Just by looking how other players play. I would say we are not the one's to be banned. 

I think this is a wonderful example of a problem that's happening to the server.
Imagine a player joining the server for the first time, maybe its their first roleplay experience, maybe they are trying to find out what they should roleplay/what roleplaying is.
You are still new and trying to learn from others, what roleplaying is, and how people roleplay.
As you progress, still not choosing either a faction or a gang, you reach a point where you're no longer secured by the new player xp protection.
And bam, you start getting robbed. And trust me, you're more likely to experience robbery rp than actual rp.
No wonder these players then start becoming robbers, everyone else is doing it!
You see other people robbing people and not really roleplaying, well that's not fair, why shouldn't you do just that!
Get yourself further up the food chain.

And that is the sad reality, players are enabling this behavior by continuing to rob others.
Honestly, the best way to counter this is by making better rules and restrictions, or by giving average gang/faction-less players an advantage/perks/benefits.

As Com783 said, by constantly adding stuff to make the factions and criminal lifestyle seem more lucrative, the civilian lifestyle seem less and less tempting, resulting in players choosing to completely ignore that path.

[Commander783]

People who have that PUBG mentality. "Loot it all" don't belong to a roleplay server. And when there's a faction/clan, who is doing it on purpose, should be completely removed from the server.

[Redharry]

On 12/26/2018 at 1:12 PM, Com783 said:

I guess these players want thrill and a quick success with little effort.

There should be a point in improving the server for civilians and to make the civilian life fun.
They added a lot for criminals. So the server as well, shifted more into the criminal direction.
They added stuff for PD and MD in response as well.

But the community wanted it (back then) and I don't really mind.
Non government, civilian jobs are a shore and you are always alone and there should be an actual way, in requesting goods from companies or players and then players would have to fullfill deliveries and receive money for it, for example. So these players are not left out as well, who play a civilian part and get some interaction as well.

Not everyone is creative enough, not everyone is smart enough, not everyone wants to be a "good person".

That's the subconscious feeling, I have from the server, if I look on the overall community.

This^ all of this^.  As a civilian we are stuck working our time away, drinking in a bar, or hosting random parties as our only available activities outside of working. We drive around and are pretty much pinatas waiting to be broken by criminals for our hard earned food and loot which they have almost no use for. Civilians need actual activities to do like golfing, darts, pool.

[Flucifial]

11 hours ago, gohena said:

There should be a rule against instant robberies without any prior RP.

That is an absolutely ridiculous request, IRL, people don't rob people they know typically, you are more likely to get robbed by someone you don't know rather than someone you do.

I'm all for limiting robberies, but that rule is just not reasonable whatsoever. 

[gohena]

1 minute ago, Flucifial said:

That is an absolutely ridiculous request, IRL, people don't rob people they know typically, you are more likely to get robbed by someone you don't know rather than someone you do.

I'm all for limiting robberies, but that rule is just not reasonable whatsoever. 

Yeah i agree, i was just speaking the first thing or solution i could come up with at the time haha

[Flucifial]

Just now, gohena said:

Yeah i agree, i was just speaking the first thing or solution i could come up with at the time haha

Oh okay haha all good bro. 

[Vasquez]

Make rules against chain robbing and forcing players to have more rp than -> Handsup -> /do do I succed in frisking you.

Allowing players to do the bare minimum of roleplay to get away with robbing others and dm/kosing, is encouraging this kind of behavior in new players.
Is that really what we want, as a community and as a server?

If so, are players leaving/not staying on the server actually a problem?
If the server aims it roleplay around robbers and cops, while being in neither of these groups are just treated as a minority, shouldn't we change the description and application quiz to fit better in with whats actually going on, on the server?

If not, should the development team not focus more time on adding civilian content, to encourage players choosing the civilian lifestyle?

[Taedolf]

The problem here is there aren't a lot of people here to roleplay and, those that are, don't really have a reason not to do their best troubled youth with delusions of invincibility impressions.

 

The server itself in its layout highly encourages guns blazing approaches to situation without forethought, through a few key things.

VOIP makes serious RP very difficult to achieve, which is why I came in here expecting a semi-serious roleplay experience as opposed to what I'm used to.  It's harder for less experienced roleplayers to put themselves into a role and also limits potential roleplay but that is unfortunately just how it is.

Next we have the ready availability of weapons through a few means.  #1, gun prices are quite low.  #2, guns are EXTREMELY easy to get even as a felon.  Just murdered somebody?  NP, we don't keep your weapons license for longer than 2 days.  #3, everybody and their mother has access to firearms.  There are no requirements apart from having no warrant and $10k.  No application to the police department for carry, concealed carry, etc.  We don't have a tiered weapons system (melee weapons are basically unused) which just encourages more escalated forms of violence.

Additionally, murder is not punished like it should be in order to discourage lethal use of force.  People should have to consider whether or not they really want to kill someone.  When you get the same punishment, generally, that you do for fleeing from the police in a vehicle..  Why shouldn't you kill that person?  I remember going to jail for 4 hours for growing opium in an arma RP server.  There was still an active criminal presence in there but the difference was, everyone thought before they committed a crime.  They considered their location and whether they could get away with a crime more heavily because the punishments were no joke.  People generally mugged while trying not to kill the person unless necessary, not just killing them because they took 10 seconds instead of 5.  They're being slow?  Pistol whip them instead of instantly popping them in the face twice with a .50.

Now I know how the developers feel about OOC style punishments for crime, as much as I disagree with that, so we'll have to wait for the DOC to be able to make prison enjoyable enough to allow for high jail times.

After the DOC and that bit is sorted, I think we need a major shift into developing the civilian side of things.  Currently the server is setup with the introductory jobs (courier, farming, trucking) as simply that, an introduction.  Players are expected to choose between three paths relatively quickly to get any enjoyment.  Legal faction, illegal faction, or government.  There are no progression paths for the simple jobs, no interaction between jobs that very well could have interaction.  For example, I'll go back to ARMA.  I spent a solid two months being a farmer before switching to the illegal side of things.  I started out in a shit car, farming shit amounts of crops.  I'd grow them out in the field, move them back to the city and sell them.  Eventually, I upgraded to a pickup truck and hauled larger amounts of crops.  I met someone that had a truck and planted a massive amount, filling that truck to the brim and we split the earnings.  I did that more often, bought my own truck after getting my CDL.  I recruited two new players and had them filling my crap up while I paid them a relatively little amount because capitalism(TM) and grew a small corporation.  After I got bored with that, I took a few trustworthy people and started farming opium and processing it to sell. 

There are so many things that we can do to give players enjoyment that doesn't include cops and robbers.  We could make a mining job that spawns some unofficial and possibly an official faction for mining metals that are then sold to dealerships to make the cars.  Relatively unrealistic since they'd just import them IRL but it's all about creating opportunities where players feel they can make a difference.  There's just not a lot of opportunities for players to do that currently.  I think we're focusing on what the server is currently and fleshing out the existing paths rather than branching out.  The unfortunate thing here is the existing paths really do just cater to cops and robbers.  Until we add more entertaining paths where players can develop and grow, that's the only thing we're going to see.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love this server and have a hell of a lot of fun here.  I see its potential as greater than it is now, which is why I'm saying all of this.  When we as a community and mod develop further, we will attract the people we want to be here and those that are here for the wrong reasons will leave.  I appreciate everything the developers do and realize development is basically thankless and hard work so, if any of you end up reading this, you are appreciated.  Players love to complain, that's just what we do.

Edited December 30, 2018 by Taedolf

[nateX]

I've talked about this issue before. People literally have the mentality and act like this is cops and robbers, this is shown by the way they are roleplaying and the ratio of criminals, civilians and gov. workers on the server. In my eyes, the ratio is the following:

30-40% of the players are gov. workers that have to deal with poor roleplay all day long but most of the time continue to keep up a high level of roleplay.

59-69% of the players are criminals, that deal with poor roleplay, and some of them keep a good RP level up, but some of them see a poor level of roleplay, and willingly drop down to that level because otherwise it's ''unplayable'' as they describe it. 

And this is an issue.

Now the 1% of the players left out of my ratio is the mostly new players or some oldies that try to roleplay as civilian, but quickly get shut down because either they are constantly involved in criminal situations, such as them getting robbed, shot etc. or because there is no good way to make money in a non-criminal way or without a government job. I see all of this as a really big issue, and I believe we as a community should come together and make suggestions to our dear developers how to improve the server to the better for all of us and how to make citizen RP interesting and give people a way to make money but also be able to just roleplay as a citizen without being involved in criminal activities or having a government job. 

I'm not blaming any side of the server for the current state of roleplay, again, this is an issue we all have to work on to improve and this ''Hands up this is hrob /me pats person'' mentality has to stop completely, things have to change and things have to improve.

 

Happy upcoming new year everybody.

[Serthon]

I don't want my post to sound off as an attack to some players, but it is true that a large group of players prefer rolling up to players and just "/me pat man down" "/me takes all item" rather than actually making an attempt to go more in-depth with the roleplay and making it enjoyable for both parties.

Now, I agree that this wouldn't be that big of an issue if there were more activities to do as just a simple civilian. There are dozens of ways to improve civilian jobs - there are possibilities of adding new jobs, adding more content to current civilian jobs and more.

What I also read in the replies is that administration does not teach roleplay. This point is true in its way, and false as well. There are staff members who first attempt to explain how roleplay works, and if they then don't really understand either, they're kicked back to the quiz. The roleplay quiz is there to prevent having players who are completely unaware of what a /do is and what it is about, but these players get in either way because they have cheated the quiz, which is why some staff members avoid this. Of course, those staff members could still try to teach the players, but that is their own call. Our punishment guidelines read "your role is not to punish, but to guide our players into the right direction." This is something we must follow.

I've swerved off-topic with the last paragraph, but this is my two cents.

[Denni]

36 minutes ago, Serthon said:

I don't want my post to sound off as an attack to some players, but it is true that a large group of players prefer rolling up to players and just "/me pat man down" "/me takes all item" rather than actually making an attempt to go more in-depth with the roleplay and making it enjoyable for both parties.

Now, I agree that this wouldn't be that big of an issue if there were more activities to do as just a simple civilian. There are dozens of ways to improve civilian jobs - there are possibilities of adding new jobs, adding more content to current civilian jobs and more.

What I also read in the replies is that administration does not teach roleplay. This point is true in its way, and false as well. There are staff members who first attempt to explain how roleplay works, and if they then don't really understand either, they're kicked back to the quiz. The roleplay quiz is there to prevent having players who are completely unaware of what a /do is and what it is about, but these players get in either way because they have cheated the quiz, which is why some staff members avoid this. Of course, those staff members could still try to teach the players, but that is their own call. Our punishment guidelines read "your role is not to punish, but to guide our players into the right direction." This is something we must follow.

I've swerved off-topic with the last paragraph, but this is my two cents.

I've noticed many staff educating and warning or fining instead of banning. So to say you guys don't do this is not entirely true. Some people just have too much of a log not to punish harshly. 

[nateX]

Also this "this is hrob" mentality makes the game look like GTA Online in a way, as people only focus on getting more money, more weapons rather than just roleplay. They see the main goal of the server as getting money, which is also an issue.