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Denni

"Hands up this is a rob" mentality...

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1 hour ago, Andor said:

I think you be surprised, cops actually would be fine and there would be more risk assestment improving overal RP standards.

I seend claude take out 4 guys at LSC with a shotgun on his own so yea cops actually are quite strong

Yeah that's true. But, let's say 20 guys in AKs vs 10 cops with no shotgun... Haha!

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Just now, Denni said:

By the time snipers come on, they legged it!

But yeah, I getchya!

The problem I feel we have now is that no matter what cops go in for the arrest. Because there is no downside to it. 
with the 15 minutes coma time, there is.
The same goes for criminals, if a criminal gets shot and killed he loses his stuff, if he wins the gunfight he doesnt lose anything. If he surrenders he goes to jail. You see why criminals dont want to surrender most of the time

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Me and another friend started playing on this server last week. We already left for a better server where's there actual roleplay and not a robbing simulator. 

Also the sync on RageMP sucks donkey balls, so without the RP there's really no reason to play a watered down version of GTA. 

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35 minutes ago, Kenny-K said:

Me and another friend started playing on this server last week. We already left for a better server where's there actual roleplay and not a robbing simulator. 

Also the sync on RageMP sucks donkey balls, so without the RP there's really no reason to play a watered down version of GTA. 

Enjoy your new place! Well done for contributing to this thread. :131_cop:

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As someone who plays a criminal I usually don't rob people unless of its a rival gang member and even then I try to get the most out of the situation, which in turn makes the scenario a little longer, and gives the other gang time to come back them up, which is frustrating but that's the risk of being a criminal, or any other form of play. With that being said I can see why new players have a difficult time RPing because it's time consuming, but I enjoy lengthy scenarios so I guess its a player to player basis. Also in a scenario when you are typing a /me and let's say you have a first responder on his knees, but he pressed his panic button before you could notice; you are in mid /me and backup shows up you either hit enter mid text or hold backspace because people don't care when they see ((Typing)) and see it as fish in a barrel. I think if people had more "courtesy" and went with scenarios instead of shoot first ask questions later, other illegal or legal parties would stop having to have the same mentality and would be a lot calmer and less chaotic. 

Just my 2 cents 🙂

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57 minutes ago, PennyWise13x said:

As someone who plays a criminal I usually don't rob people unless of its a rival gang member and even then I try to get the most out of the situation, which in turn makes the scenario a little longer, and gives the other gang time to come back them up, which is frustrating but that's the risk of being a criminal, or any other form of play. With that being said I can see why new players have a difficult time RPing because it's time consuming, but I enjoy lengthy scenarios so I guess its a player to player basis. Also in a scenario when you are typing a /me and let's say you have a first responder on his knees, but he pressed his panic button before you could notice; you are in mid /me and backup shows up you either hit enter mid text or hold backspace because people don't care when they see ((Typing)) and see it as fish in a barrel. I think if people had more "courtesy" and went with scenarios instead of shoot first ask questions later, other illegal or legal parties would stop having to have the same mentality and would be a lot calmer and less chaotic. 

Just my 2 cents 🙂

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I'm a fairly new player, having been around here maybe 5 days. I feel like this robbing mentality is what shifted me from the civ path down to the criminal one. Allow me to elaborate.

I came on for the first time and went through the introduction and managed to obtain a driver's and trucker's license. I spent my first days in the city hauling fuel across the state, filling up stations. It wasn't much, but it was honest work. I learned the basic skills of using your inventory and managing cash and taking salaries etc etc. I had quite a few very pleasant experiences with role play around the bank. In the back of my mind I knew not to expect anything crazy because it's an NCZ and there's probably a lot of crime out there, but I didn't think much of it. So on one delivery I'm running I'm hauling down the freeway and get stopped by some dudes on bikes, who proceed to hold me at gunpoint, get me out of the vehicle, steal it, rob my possessions, and then take off. The rping was weak but as an unarmed truck driver, all I could do was comply. Really from that point on most of my experiences outside of NCZ's were all robberies, from trying to fill up with gas to getting the vehicle stolen to being shot while out for a walk along the beach. Eventually I came into some illicit work and being around these criminal locations, the robberies just became more frequent and the players more hostile. Of course these being more criminal-centric areas and me being a solo player, the chances of being robbed are much higher. However, these experiences really have tainted the level of trust I have for players when I encounter them now. My first instinct is to always draw a gun, because I fear for my life and property otherwise. I'll only confiscate a weapon if I see it, maybe some valuables depending on the player or my financial needs. But I don't do it for some thrill or to score a quick buck, I feel like I almost have to. My character has become such a paranoid person because of all of these previous experiences. Plenty of these encounters are justified, given the questionable work I'm involved with now, but to be robbed in the middle of the day in the middle of the city in plain sight? It is what it is, but it does get a little old. When I see a group of people my first instinct shouldn't be to draw a gun or run away like that, but I've just become so paranoid and defensive over my life and property that I have to be willing to die in a shootout over it as opposed to be stripped of my possessions and left stranded.

 

I'm enjoying my time here, and while the robbery mentality can be tainting, there have been a few good and decent role play experiences that have come from it. I just feel limited to being the shadow man behind the gun now because if I don't, then who's to say the other guy won't draw one on me? I guess I've played the victim card enough so that I became the villain. Again it is what it is, but the influx of crime and the whole cops vs robbers mentality probably exists and keeps growing because life as a solo factionless civ is just unforgiving. You're just an easy target.

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On 12/31/2018 at 12:02 PM, nateX said:

Also this "this is hrob" mentality makes the game look like GTA Online in a way, as people only focus on getting more money, more weapons rather than just roleplay. They see the main goal of the server as getting money, which is also an issue. 

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Well yea overall RP is very poor.

I have tons of footage with poor RP, either from PD or Gangs and its actually sad to see it that way but shit, cant change it alone so just go with it. MG is seeded into PD so every action starts with a fact. You are not part of PD, you must be criminal. Month ago i went to jail cuz i went to store that someon robed. And once i was killed by PD for standing leaned on a private car of Officer, with an excuse i was pick locking it wich i was not doing. Luckly i prove it later on discord with screenshots, but i lost 30 minutes of my life arguing with PD because once more, their starting fact in any roleplay is he must be a criminal since he is not in PD. So sad 😞

 

So we should maybe monitor the quality of roleplay done (a lot of work), maybe implement justice system based on lawyers/judges that would function over discord by sending proof of the situation. That way the PD silence would have much more sense than it has now. And "felony" would no longer be crime explanation to the person that ends up in jail.

As for mass robberies around, well yea more or less you cant move around and not get robbed, especially since weapon prices went up, now people actually earn a lot by just stealing a pistol from someon, pistol price is 11 000$!! If you manage to obtain couple of pistols, you can trade it for a Dominator or eaven a house, what a joke xD Maybe with providing NCZ on more places that would be time bound. For example geting robbed at money transport HQ possible only at night hours, making job parking lots NCZ from 8:00-18:00 so players can leave their vehicle at their job HQ without having it stolen and choped. Imagine you drive with your car to the work HQ, park it and go on duty driving around whatever your job is, come back in an hour or two, get back in your car and enjoy your free time. We all know its impossible, so maybe reach out for players that are doing legal jobs, and maybe eaven make this server from PD-Criminal to PD-Civil-Criminal. Implement small loans connected to legal jobs that would be payed of by work salary. (must be working as courir for xx amount of time in order to get chance of small loans) There are many things we can implement in order to change the currect state of server, just need to start somewhere. On the end, if stuff shows no good, pressing delete is the easiest part.

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14 minutes ago, Henry Goodman said:

Well yea overall RP is very poor.

I have tons of footage with poor RP, either from PD or Gangs and its actually sad to see it that way but shit, cant change it alone so just go with it. MG is seeded into PD so every action starts with a fact. You are not part of PD, you must be criminal. Month ago i went to jail cuz i went to store that someon robed. And once i was killed by PD for standing leaned on a private car of Officer, with an excuse i was pick locking it wich i was not doing. Luckly i prove it later on discord with screenshots, but i lost 30 minutes of my life arguing with PD because once more, their starting fact in any roleplay is he must be a criminal since he is not in PD. So sad 😞

 

So we should maybe monitor the quality of roleplay done (a lot of work), maybe implement justice system based on lawyers/judges that would function over discord by sending proof of the situation. That way the PD silence would have much more sense than it has now. And "felony" would no longer be crime explanation to the person that ends up in jail.

As for mass robberies around, well yea more or less you cant move around and not get robbed, especially since weapon prices went up, now people actually earn a lot by just stealing a pistol from someon, pistol price is 11 000$!! If you manage to obtain couple of pistols, you can trade it for a Dominator or eaven a house, what a joke xD Maybe with providing NCZ on more places that would be time bound. For example geting robbed at money transport HQ possible only at night hours, making job parking lots NCZ from 8:00-18:00 so players can leave their vehicle at their job HQ without having it stolen and choped. Imagine you drive with your car to the work HQ, park it and go on duty driving around whatever your job is, come back in an hour or two, get back in your car and enjoy your free time. We all know its impossible, so maybe reach out for players that are doing legal jobs, and maybe eaven make this server from PD-Criminal to PD-Civil-Criminal. Implement small loans connected to legal jobs that would be payed of by work salary. (must be working as courir for xx amount of time in order to get chance of small loans) There are many things we can implement in order to change the currect state of server, just need to start somewhere. On the end, if stuff shows no good, pressing delete is the easiest part.

Juditial system is coming. Small loans for working would eradicate loan companies. The problem you have is that criminals have ruined so much with their constant robbing and rubbish RP that everyone else just either becomes one or doesn't. 

There are ofc issues with PD. But metagaming? You need facts for that. 

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19 minutes ago, Henry Goodman said:

Fact is that the situation at the moment is PD or Criminal.

That isn't a fact either. There is a non-negligible amount of people working jobs such as DCC, LSC, Bayview, some for years now. Yes, they get robbed sometimes, but that doesn't mean there isn't an option. Especially in recent times, we've seen the inauguration of two new factions: LS Government, and Department of Corrections, which both bring legal jobs that aren't PD to the server. Not to mention LSEMS is always looking for members, and has been here for so long. 

Could there be more opportunities for civilians? Yes, however the way you take things to the extreme is not constructive.

Especially the tangent you went on a post above, that started with "MG is seeded into PD" which is very insulting. 

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3 minutes ago, Darnell said:

That isn't a fact either. There is a non-negligible amount of people working jobs such as DCC, LSC, Bayview, some for years now. Yes, they get robbed sometimes, but that doesn't mean there isn't an option. Especially in recent times, we've seen the inauguration of two new factions: LS Government, and Department of Corrections, which both bring legal jobs that aren't PD to the server. Not to mention LSEMS is always looking for members, and has been here for so long. 

Could there be more opportunities for civilians? Yes, however the way you take things to the extreme is not constructive.

 Especially the tangent you went on a post above, that started with "MG is seeded into PD" which is very insulting. 

You know what, you sum it up perfectly! 

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I did not mean to insult, it was just poetic freedom. And not being part of PD,MD,LSC does not necessary mean someon is a criminal. Worst situation i saw when PD placed some guy to Prison because he was geting robbed by other guys. He was killing the chat with /say about it but it was all ignored... Thats why we need Justice system to terminate those things in roots, by the time you make a PD report you are already out of jail, so people just tend to accept that treatment and not report at all. Civilians need far more opportunities than they have now. I am not saying we are doing all wrong, server is geting better every day and i fully support it, not just IC but OOC with donations also, doing quality RP and encouraging others to do the same but i am simply pointing out some things that i find very bad in my experience and in experience of players around me. No hard feelings at all!

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I think as an overall resolution to this current stigma, the victims of poor-RP should submit evidence via the forums in the form of a report. Not to initially declare a proclaimation of rule breaking, but as a means to single out individuals into a pseudo-blacklist. If the negligent RP antics of the community can be determined or otherwise individually sourced to sole players as a habitual occurence, having documentation of a specific repeat offender performing obvious non-RP antics(IE Robbing people with out a reasonably assumed detriment due to persecution, robbing people for their meager items when you drive a super car, ect) can eventually lead to a non-RP violation. And that can put fear in the heart of those who do not fear to metagame their motives against the reality of the RP. At anytime, building a record of foul play creates a track record for staff that will eventually garner enough attention to need correction.

Anecdotally, it is a much more effective means to instill change and a status quo through fear of deviation, rather than simply trying to set an example against the odds of someone who knows they can operate outside of a minority preference. Eclipse has a target audience of roleplayers, which is becoming that minority by being on the opposite side of the change, so as that target market it is up to the players themselves to A: Let the non-RPers know what said market is, and B: Let the staff be reminded of the market they are promoting and not managing to uphold. It is just as much the community responsibility to establish the means for ensuring a quality of life as it is the staff's to enforce it. Give logical reasons for how these situations are non-RP or game breaking and make it a reason for action. Complaining about something that has no basis of merit to be fixed is not going to change anything. At most, it only adds to the grief mentality. Disgruntled people are usually the first ones to turn around and cause disgruntlement.

 

Ask yourself questions before going forward. Here are some examples, but not limited to:

-Are these players in a faction that promotes this RP, and should it be taken up at a larger stature in the organization to correct them playing outside of what they claim to offer to the community?

-If they are in a faction, does this activiry support the faction and it's current objectives?

-Are these players RPing as their character in the way it has been described and/or has developed or are they carrying out a meta agenda to meet an OOC mark through IC bounties?

-Does the player have a good standing in the community?

-Does this character live in dire circumstances, or are they in a modded car, have expensive guns, a nice abode that supports no real evidence that they should be engaging in petty theft on randoms?

-Are you being robbed going at high speed where engine noise, wind, and radio volume, assumed noise pollution would flood out the shouting person chasing you? And did they shoot you for being a good RPer and not acknowledging their powergame?

-Did you not accept their frisk command ASAP but you RP'd allowing the process and gave a detailed account as to your lack of resistance? And did you try to enforce RP by making them take their time to post and provide emotes in response?

-Did they shoot you even though in RP you abided by their commands with /me or /do? (Perhaps you made them RP unzipping your pocket? Or finding where you had something hidden prior to /friskapprove being implemented?)

 

Your own creativity can be your downfall in this situation, not the lack of character in others. This also goes for those who are not creative enough to create a story for their character in roleplay that is not supported by the scripted mechanics. Those are a MINOR part of the roleplay. Those who complain about their being nothing to do, simply don't understand that roleplay is about using creativity to drive a story and create the environment YOU WANT through your character actions and relations. The standing issue seems to be that people are in the bubble of only using the material environment provided to them and adding little to it. The result was this negative maximized hyper-capitalization of everything available to the point it became a habitual nuisance and over stretched pursuit of happiness, so to speak. (My faction Merryweather at the moment has NO supported in game scripted mechanics, yet I have managed to create a way for it to be a progressive and interactive part of the community... when the community is ready... Not criminal, nor goverment, it floats in a grey area where those involved must seek opportunity and provide opportunity to the community in order for it to have signifigance and be progressive. It's still a prototype, and unfortunately requires selecting the most beneficial candidates from the community to support better RP everywhere it operates, but I believe if done properly it can set a foundation for RPing outside of the confines people have set for themselves inside of mechanics. It's going to be a learning experience in true roleplay creativity, and in neutral faction play. That comes with knowing the rules really well, enforcing them, being an excellent and creative RPer, and making sure that others interacting with you do the same... but this is just an example of being creative to solve your issues... And I have only mentioned it because I believe others should be trying similar outside of the box approaches to harnessing a better quality of roleplay mentally.)

 

Look at the situation and ask yourself, does this robbery make sense in terms of who is performing the action? Did they in turn comply and reply to your RP? Just because your character is at their whim does not mean you OOCly are. Use your RP to take charge of the situation. If that fails, from the few examples listed, a combination of them could be grounds for producing an actual report on the foundation of multiple broken rules.

 

I provide no empirical data or knowledge to the subject, this is just my personal annotation to the aforementioned topic posted by the OP. The cursory methods expressed are merely a means of looking at how we can improve RP quality more effectively, by improving our approach towards resolution. It is a process which can be applied to any suggesstion or complaint. This is just me addressing that perhaps if we want relevant change, we should think more empirically rather than just using anecdotal narratives to go about our agendas. Research the issue that plagues the community, produce the evidence with the data, and present the solution and perhaps it will find correction with staff not having to go out of their way to do all of the ground work. It's a community, those most active at the ground level know best whats taking place in game. Be communicative and be an ambassador of your own issues and complaints. It just may help more than yourself to do so. And there may well be others speaking the same narrative. Voices can be loud, but the rumble of a communitive chant does not go unfelt. I on the other hand, do not have the information to seek any rectification to this specific issue, but I agree it is an issue, and plenty of you seem to have the details required to hot fix it.

Edited by Jethro Bookens
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On 1/30/2019 at 3:24 PM, Darnell said:

That isn't a fact either. There is a non-negligible amount of people working jobs such as DCC, LSC, Bayview, some for years now. Yes, they get robbed sometimes, but that doesn't mean there isn't an option. Especially in recent times, we've seen the inauguration of two new factions: LS Government, and Department of Corrections, which both bring legal jobs that aren't PD to the server. Not to mention LSEMS is always looking for members, and has been here for so long. 

Could there be more opportunities for civilians? Yes, however the way you take things to the extreme is not constructive.

Especially the tangent you went on a post above, that started with "MG is seeded into PD" which is very insulting. 

As my main, Andor rootman, has been a civ since the start of my play time on the server which is almost 2 years now. I have to say there is not a lot to do. I was mister weazel news for a long time, I always say the issue with weazel news is its the only proactive faction, we needed to make our own content we needed to go out and interact, research and find stories nothing came to us. Every other faction was reactive, mechanics had people come to them for fixes and mods on cars, MD and PD serve the public in obvious ways and they get called to locations, DCC is a taxi service you call. 
Now here is the thing, I was frustrated most of the time because there was nothing to write about no major events besides 200 PD situations, a new faction leader or something. I made up general shit about sports teams and people fucking chickens in the KFC factory. I tried to do events with weazel, parachuting, scavanger hunts and so on. These things take a lot of effort and planning to turn out successful ( and with the last DCC car show where I legit got so stressed I wanted to punch my screen I stopped doing it all together, fuck that ). 
Problem here is that in script our options as civilians off duty are so limited and even without assests the factions provide there isnt much outside working and grinding that paycheck for a new car/house. Poker came but if that isnt your thing, what is there to do script wise? Yes you can make your own RP with friends, go on a adventure exploring the map, having fun off road things to do. Yet the script doesnt help you one bit, it doesnt enhences the experiance one bit. 
So people do crime, because hey shooting people is always fun right. The thrill of a shootout is never a let down. Over the years in this server we had many non criminal groups in the first year. People that grouped together and talked, made jokes and gave the city a enjoyable feel. Those people are gone and didnt get replaced by others because the script doesnt nurtures these people instead it might even push them away.

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I think the shops need to be changed, This is based on GTA and Los Santos, it is a cesspool.

 

I should be able to walk into a shop, alone and pull my weapon and demand the cash. I should be able to shoot the shopkeeper and TAKE what i want because im a bad mamajama.

 

However thats a 187, a murder with malice aforethought 

 "Malice aforethought" means the killer "with wanton disregard for human life, does an act that involves a high degree of probability that it will result in death.".

 

This should trigger the Death Penalty. 

So now if ive not worn a mask then im on CCTV and every cop gets my ID and description. If i do wear a mask then i still have a flag on me that for example only pops up when stopped by police. Thus turning the criminal bad mama jama into a super cautious civilian for x amount of time till the heat dies down.

 

Ive made money, ive not ruined anyones day but an NPC and lifes good.

 

Get caught and you get executed, full death RP, obituary and news report in the weazel news the whole nine, and that char is gonzo! all money all contacts all everything.

 

This would go for killing players aswell. So yea sure you can walk up to someone and pump rounds into them for no reason, but if you get caught you are done. 10 RL hours in jail followed by your last 450 Taco and then its goodnight Vienna.

 

There are however flip sides to the discussion! i tried to live the work a day civilian life, i really did, i even saved up and bought a Car and when i say a car i mean an unmodded Ingot station wagon because who the hell comes to a new city and drives a Postal van or Cash Truck but has the money for a supercar?

 

I have been robbed and killed so many times in shit RP situations that my guy had enough, i stole a bike and was on my way to sell it when i was pulled by the cops, we had some great RP even if the one cop kept using ooc to tell me he had mistakenly kicked me IC but i was using it as good RP and trying to crack on with it, police brutality etc i found it interesting when i was in the back of the squad car that the cops seemed very surprised that i stopped. Well im a decent RPer and i knew that in real life it was an impossible situation so i gave up.

 

Then  i got a ridiculous sentence in prison for a first offence i was stunned, thrown in a room and left doing pressups for hours (RL hours i might add) which lead me to miss and IC meeting with a group i was meeting. Now to my point

 

PRISON SUCKS

 

and im not saying that in a cry baby dont do the crime if you cant do the time way

 

im saying that its so bad it makes me never want to comply with police ever again, suicide by cop is now a better option than jail. Im not saying make Jail more fun or less of a punishment im just saying that anyone who goes to jail will come out and either never break the law again or never stop for cops again. Which in fairness is a fair description of the justice system now i think about it lol.

 

Overall though ive enjoyed my time on the server and i hope to meet more people and get some good RP going

 

 

 

p.s. Oh and also the one time i did have a gun in my hand (legally purchased with a licence i might add) someone tried to mug me, i hit him 3 times in the chest bam bam bam perfect grouping centre mass....he walked right through that and killed me with one hit of a golf club...mmkay 😄

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