alexalex303

The fact that it's in the handbook is not a sound argument. The handbook can be wrong. It makes no sense for an off-duty cop to send people to prison. Regardless of what your handbook says.

If people are shooting you for no reason, they are breaking a server rule, and you have a relatively easy way to approach that. I don't see guns needing to be more strict.

You can already check if you're wanted by doing /payticket near any cop, or at the LSPD.

Speaking of violence..

If everyone would disable a system if given the choice, its probably time to analyze the issues and perhaps rework it.

Something that I personally advocated for since the beginning of the fight for the unlimited prison time was offline jail sentence serving. The idea is the following: A criminal, let's call him Joe gets arrested for shooting cops. It doesn't make sense for him to be out in two hours shooting cops again. However, let's say that the same Joe gets arrested and under the unlimited prison time, receives a sentence of 6 hours. Now that's pretty lengthy to serve, especially without any AFK. The solution: Joe logs off for the day, perhaps goes onto an alternate character, and the prison time goes down twice as slow. (12 hours) This way Joe does not go back to shooting cops within two hours, there are consequences, but you also don't keep Joe in the desolate prison for 6 hours. I feel like it's the best of both worlds.

There are reasons to re-visit the prison sentences, specifically the removal of the AFK timer, but this? Affecting your OOC relationships? No. "hey wanna go out" "sure" *close game* ??? No one is forcing you to do the prison time all at once, you can make those 4 hours by playing for 10 minutes a day for 24 days.

Because you shouldn't be doing that. We should not add script support for bad roleplay. I can not imagine a single scenario in which an off-duty cop would realistically jump into a cruiser and then be like "alright im off-duty but I witnessed it so let me charge this guy, get him sent to prison and fined for 20k". Communicate with the officers there and create some roleplay with players. Give your testimony, and see what they do with it. That's the good approach.

It's you that doesn't understand the issue. I'm saying that the cop doing that right now is pretty bad roleplay and it shouldn't be further supported by the script. You can be detained by a civilian in what's colloquially called a citizen's arrest, however, you can NOT be charged by a civilian.

This is such a huge double standard it's not even amusing. 4. Is it the High Command's responsibility to manage the impound? No. Is it the High Command's responsibility to ensure that the LSPD does everything it's supposed to? Yes. I won't even talk about IB cause that's just thrown in there randomly. Like it or not, the LSPD and SASD are responsible for the impound lot. Yes, responsible. If a vehicle is not released in a timely manner, that means that either police command, or police supervisors, or police officers fucked up. Not the criminals. You. The issue is that in your ideal world, the criminals would be super afraid of cops at all times and never want to get into a shootout with cops for fun, but cops are alright to only do chases and shootouts, not any less desirable work. How is that alright? People will sign up for it, if there's enough repercussions for not doing so. The second someone uses /buzzer, until an officer enters the impound lot NCZ, there's a timer. If the timer reaches 10/15 minutes. All on-duty cops do not get paid for that hour. Because they are not doing their job. I guarantee you more cops will show up. 5. In an ideal world, heavily armed and heavily organized criminal groups would cower in fear as two officers, one african-american bald officer, and one red headed caucasian officers get out of their car, and start pointing guns at a group of twenty of those heavily armed individuals. They all should run away from the officers and avoid them? And don't tell me that never happened either. Half of the DM reports start with a single cruiser going head first into a pursuit of a contender with four people inside of it. How come if a cop aims a gun at a person, it's not a reason to kill the cop, but it's still a reason to FearRP? If the cop can not shoot, but only defend themselves, why are criminals expected to FearRP from the officer? Because it's still a gun, and it can still kill you, so then why is aiming that gun that can still kill me not an egregious threat against myself or my ally?

If this is how you roleplay your character, I can very well claim that it's borderline powergaming/non-roleplay. I've regularly seen cops attend parties off-duty, drinking, and having fun. However, in your world view, those cops would be able to arrest someone for a crime, hop in a cruiser, and sentence them to prison and immense fines, while wearing shorts and vodka on their breath, because, "this is what the handbook says". Off-duty officer testimony does not carry the same weight as an on-duty one, because of that accountability that I described above. An on-duty officer's actions are very often easily accounted for through his tracking by dispatcher, and in certain jurisdictions by mandatory bodycameras. You trying to join off-duty and on-duty powers is like I said before borderline NonRP. Just because the script allows you to charge people doesn't mean it would realistically happen, and should something like what you described above ever occur on the server, I'd encourage the victim to make a player report, as the play to win mentality exhibited by the cop is outright silly. I know for a fact you can not speak for the Sheriffs Department, so maybe we can have some input from Wallace, Osborne or Fain, because if this is truly how you guys conduct your affairs, change may be required, on your side, not the script. Your snide comment at the end of "waste your own time, I'm not the one going to jail" is further evidence of your appalling attitude.

Yes it does. If you don't have access to the mdc, you are relying on other officers to enforce the law. If you can arrest and charge a person, are you even off-duty anymore? Might as well allow officers to be on-duty and doing personal stuff. You want to charge people off-duty because your handbook tells you to charge people yourself when you witness things. Change the handbook, or leave the law enforcement to on-duty officers. I don't see how the server should have to change to fit your handbook.

You should not be enforcing the law when you're off-duty. You definitively shouldn't be charging people when you're off-duty either.

We need the rules to become less specific so that the moderation team can judge situations based on the reasons. We already have issues with the hyper-specific fearRP point under DM. Let's not create more issues.

4. The issue is that it's not being treated as a responsibility but more of an optional inconvenience like paperwork. This needs remedied because it's not NPCs waiting for you for two hours, but real players. I've been in the PD before, and you are in the PD. Can you really tell me that when someone waits for 30 minutes at impound lot, there is not a single cop doing nothing just patrolling but can't be asked to go to impound? If you say yes to that, then you are grossly mismanaging your resources. The fact of the matter is that during prime time EU there's about 40 cops. There's maybe one or two traffic stops/chases every hour. Do you need all 20 non busy cops there? No. But you regularly see 10 cruisers chase one money courier truck. 5. That would work well in an ideal world, but this is not an ideal world. There are different types of players both in criminal and legal factions. I will sometimes see cops that surrender and only use their gun to defend themselves yes, but sometimes I see, and I'm sure you see as well cops that carelessly aim their guns at large groups of people, without any care of retaliation, because they are aware that the rules protect them. How often do you see a police barricade with a gang presence nearby, that's all very passive, and cops start aiming carbines and pistols. Do you think that's defensive? Do you think it's right the gangs can not retaliate, for fear of being punished for DM?

Official gangs can import armor that is half as effective as LSPD armor. (50 armor vs 100)

Trying to get the thread back onto the right track: A change to the DM rules that would allow players to engage people in vehicles; Allow official factions to build their own drug labs over time; Create a fake ID system where criminals can create a fake ID that would pass an MDC check but not a special check at Mission Row; Create incentive for LSPD/SASD to man the impound lot (ex. If a person has to wait for more than 15 minutes at the impound lot, all cops do not get paid for that on-duty hour); Remove the exception in the DM rules for cops aiming firearms, at the end of the day it's a lethal weapon that's being pointed at you or an ally, it should carry weight and not be waved haphazardly because of OOC protections; Add secondary positive effects to drugs so that we may perhaps see them being sold to players for the effects rather than just NPCs. These are perhaps not new ideas, but there are some things that I'd like to see implemented in a criminal themed patch.