We Just Tried to Rob a Bank. It was the most fun- until it wasnt.

[tylxrrr]

1 hour ago, Denza said:

It was secure until it wasnt. The scene was not secure at the exact moment the barricade went down and the vehicle had a straight opening to safety. The road ahead was not cordoned off, and scene management wasnt done in that area which is understandable considering the number units youve had. But then that begs the question. Why did officers open fire at individuals who at that point posed no immediate threat to life, in the direction of an area that was not secure. 

This is a good point to be honest. It should have actually been blocked off. It is weird though because we don't necessarily drive like we are avoiding NPC traffic, but we pick and choose where to take into account NPCs/where people would be RPly. For example, the player theft rule, we take into account that West Highway would RPly have a lot of NPCs driving down it, so we can't rob someone on it. Yet, we go 240 down West Highway as if traffic doesn't exist So yeah. I don't know though. It is weird.

[Joshc7531]

Ruins the RP and is totally unrealistic. 

 

https://streamable.com/jrzg6j

[Victor Einhart]

This thread clearly shows these situations are not fun anymore: nobody has voiced their enjoyment surrounding these situations so far in this thread, including the people that initiate them.  Police come down like a hurricane to dissuade people from using this tactic because if it becomes effective it only encourages people to keep doing it.  It makes no sense from a law enforcement perspective to purposely allow this tactic to be effective because it encourages more crime and for the same situation to happen again.  Not one suggestion has been put forward on what police should do to about this clear escalation beyond "things need to improve."  Improve how?  Give me exact things we should do, or tactics we should employ that aren't "let people get away with it."  I'm asking you.  Begging you.  Tell me.  Be extremely specific and detailed.  I want to hear your answer to this problem that doesn't encourage more hostage taking, while also discouraging the current "meta" of bank hostage situations from happening again.

I'm at my wit's end.  My suggestion right now is this:

From:

• Players are allowed to kidnap or to take other players hostage for only these specific reasons:
• You have to have a roleplay reason to attack the victim in accordance with the DM rules.
• If you attempt to commit robbery of a property, you are allowed to hold the players within that property until you have finished the robbery. An NPC is not a valid hostage.
• All included players may not take another hostage for 1 OOC week if police are involved.

To:

• Players are allowed to kidnap or to take other players hostage for only these specific reasons:
• You have to have a roleplay reason to attack the victim in accordance with the DM rules.
• If you attempt to commit robbery of a property, you are allowed to hold the players within that property until you have finished the robbery, but should not be used as leverage against other players. An NPC is not a valid hostage.
• All included players may not take another hostage for 1 OOC week if police are involved.

Currently point #3 means hostage takers can't rules-as-written enforce "we'll kill the hostage" because you don't have DM rights. The current wording has so far only encouraged ruleplaying in banks where people camp the bank waiting for someone to walk inside. This is assuming people are following these rules to start with.

Frankly, people are doing this every single day of the week. Point #4 is presumably meant to cut down on the number of hostage situations and frankly it hasn't worked. There are simply too many hostages being taken and it's killing many police officers' enjoyment of the game.

If this rule change isn't feasible or agreeable, then maybe the mechanics surrounding banks themselves need to be changed where police aren't alerted so early. Something clearly needs to be changed.

Edited June 6, 2021 by Victor Einhart

[Donovan]

stop the hostage memes, its been a thing for past few weeks, people rob banks on a daily and get away, you got caught lackin, its that simple

[Dimja]

23 hours ago, Victor Einhart said:

This thread clearly shows these situations are not fun anymore: nobody has voiced their enjoyment surrounding these situations so far in this thread, including the people that initiate them.  Police come down like a hurricane to dissuade people from using this tactic because if it becomes effective it only encourages people to keep doing it.  It makes no sense from a law enforcement perspective to purposely allow this tactic to be effective because it encourages more crime and for the same situation to happen again.  Not one suggestion has been put forward on what police should do to about this clear escalation beyond "things need to improve."  Improve how?  Give me exact things we should do, or tactics we should employ that aren't "let people get away with it."  I'm asking you.  Begging you.  Tell me.  Be extremely specific and detailed.  I want to hear your answer to this problem that doesn't encourage more hostage taking, while also discouraging the current "meta" of bank hostage situations from happening again.

I'm at my wit's end.  My suggestion right now is this:

From:

• Players are allowed to kidnap or to take other players hostage for only these specific reasons:
• You have to have a roleplay reason to attack the victim in accordance with the DM rules.
• If you attempt to commit robbery of a property, you are allowed to hold the players within that property until you have finished the robbery. An NPC is not a valid hostage.
• All included players may not take another hostage for 1 OOC week if police are involved.

To:

• Players are allowed to kidnap or to take other players hostage for only these specific reasons:
• You have to have a roleplay reason to attack the victim in accordance with the DM rules.
• If you attempt to commit robbery of a property, you are allowed to hold the players within that property until you have finished the robbery, but should not be used as leverage against other players. An NPC is not a valid hostage.
• All included players may not take another hostage for 1 OOC week if police are involved.

Currently point #3 means hostage takers can't rules-as-written enforce "we'll kill the hostage" because you don't have DM rights. The current wording has so far only encouraged ruleplaying in banks where people camp the bank waiting for someone to walk inside. This is assuming people are following these rules to start with.

Frankly, people are doing this every single day of the week. Point #4 is presumably meant to cut down on the number of hostage situations and frankly it hasn't worked. There are simply too many hostages being taken and it's killing many police officers' enjoyment of the game.

If this rule change isn't feasible or agreeable, then maybe the mechanics surrounding banks themselves need to be changed where police aren't alerted so early. Something clearly needs to be changed.

The usage of random hostages to get away might be a bit weird, but is at the moment the only way to empty a bank without getting caught. The response times to the bank alarms are insanely fast and most of the times each member of the heist only takes one cash pack.  Once this all is gathered and divided with the extra people as scouts and with the equipment subtracted, there is not much payoff for such high risk.

Pinkcage is almost impossible with a response time in less than 10 seconds. I like the idea of changing the hostage rule, but it should also come with the alarm setting off later in the proces, allowing the robbers to have more time.

[Jbacon]

My issue is that so many people are using one of their gang members un affiliated alt as the hostage, or grabbing a new player and throwing them into the mix as their hostage. 

Its bad when you can watch a streamer whilst you play something else and all you hear is "I wanna be the hostage this time... Jimmy you did it last time" ... or "lets go grab a new person from the air port, give em 2k and rob a bank"

This is no escalation to these, its unfortunate and I wish there was more that criminals could do to get large heists that have good rp, and a good chance of escape. 

I can say that looking at the bank robberies I respond to nightly there is about a 25% chance the vault is cleared out, 30% chance at a small snatch and run. and a 15% of actually finding someone in the act of robbing it (various stages) and the remainder is people cycling the timer of the bank.

[Nivek]

Just don't rob banks. Ever. Eventually, they will either implement a better system and/or scripts, or they won't. I just can't ever see myself enjoying a bank job in it's current state, so I'll just wait for something better. If better never comes. Oh well. I understand the emotions behind what went down, but Eclipse just is what it is. I look forward to a better system, but I put no hope into it at all.

[Lipq]

23 hours ago, Nivek said:

Just don't rob banks. Ever. Eventually, they will either implement a better system and/or scripts, or they won't. I just can't ever see myself enjoying a bank job in it's current state, so I'll just wait for something better. If better never comes. Oh well. I understand the emotions behind what went down, but Eclipse just is what it is. I look forward to a better system, but I put no hope into it at all.

mans on to something

 

[Angelo Capone]

On 5/18/2021 at 10:34 AM, Osvaldon said:

I have been also thinking about different scenarios for this situation and I think there are a few more options here:
1. You could have negotiated to be permitted to take the hostage with you in the car and release them soon after at the agreed area or when out of sight of police cars.
2. You could have made some sacrifices (but at reduced risk) and asked for more than one vehicle and could have remained with the hostage, while allowing time for your other associates to take the bank money and get away with one of those cars, then verify that over the radio.
3. You could have placed one or more scouts to watch over the area and try to flee in multiple directions as soon as the scouts had alerted you of approaching police vehicles. It is not necessary to start a hostage situation, but if you decide to do it, the chances of getting away are not that great.

Just seen this comment and was quite concerned, so thought i would provide my feedback, as i have been part of both sides.

1) This has been tried multiple times before and law enforcement take this as you putting the hostages life at risk and then storm the banks with ARs. Trying to bring the hostage with you never works, as the the crims would have all the leverage.

2) After performing banks over the years i have tried this technique and it either results sacrificing a person and the cops managing to get the fine up to 40k +, or when negotiating the cops not allowing multiple vehicles, unless there are multiple hostages (when would make the time to reward not worth it).

3) This works however provides no bank rp or interactions with the cops. Doing this is a good way but shouldn't just be the 'Meta' for banks. Running in a bank and running straight out when cops provides little rp (just doing the bank script) if only one cruiser gets there in time.

My Suggestion:

The main issue with this is the fact that members of staff (admins or mods) who are either participating in it or overlooking it, are most of the time always mainly Legal based. Ive seen this first hand as a cadet, where other officers speak to crims like they know the best on the situation and have the validation of the staff members who are in a teamspeak call with them. This is applied to banks as well as there is always staff members, where officers can ask for validation, for example having a sniper and deciding when to shoot or not. This helps aid police to make riskier decisions with the help of staff (so they don't rule break).

Why cant this be the same for criminals?

Why cant they have the same treatment?

A suggestion is making robbing banks less frequent (with a higher reward) and actually focusing on creating an RP scenario where multiple methods can be used by both sides, instead of one side pulling the strings.

[jason]

As this discussion has long since been concluded, it will now be locked & archived.