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Appelgi

The Drag - Hatred for the bike?

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The Drag

A vehicle used for its speed, and handling. It seems like its one of the best vehicles, it was at least. What's the reason for the drastic change in the behavior of the bike? I don't know. Seems like its only hatred. 

I don't get how a vehicle so expensive, and such an important asset for many people ICly, is changed OOCly. Its seems like there is a group of people that think that the drag is too overpowered, and have taken this action to try and limit the people using it, or at least making the vehicle useless. 

The turning radius of the vehicle has been changed today, and its really bad. You can't even make a small turn. If these changes are killing the use of the bike. 

 

Crim Consequences

The drag had many benefits, which gave criminals a slight upper hand in chases and mobility. The only vehicle I felt comfortable driving was a drag, for its mobility. It seems like the whole reason for nerfing the drag has to do with nerfing crim's and their chances of escape. Cops cant really do anything against a drag, and it seems like the only reason for the current nerf has to do with this. 

 

So, I hope that anyone can clarify what the exact reasons are to destroy the best bike?

 

 

 

 

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This is my opinion, so don't attack me too much. I believe most people could agree the Hakuchou Drag was the best vehicle on the server. This was mainly due to the performance being really strong. It had crazy acceleration, decent handling(180 degree turn), and a good top speed.

To be honest, I think the acceleration and speed on the Hakuchou Drag represented a good standard of realism. However, the handling did not.

The Hakuchou Drag is obviously a drag bike. The whole point of a drag bike is to have the fastest time on a drag strip. Drag strips are just basically straight roads. These bikes are made NOT to turn, rather just have the fastest acceleration. If you look up videos on motorcycle drag racing, you can clearly see these bikes just go straight.

Now back to the Hakuchou Drag, it was able to corner really well, which doesn't represent a good standard of realism for a drag bike. This is most likely why the handling was modified, to have a more accurate representation of a drag bike.

Now of course Eclipse RP is not 1:1 to real life, if it were, there would probably be no Hakuchou Drag as drag bikes aren't driven on the street.

TLDR: The Hakuchou Drag was modified to represent a more realistic version of a drag bike.

Personally, I think the handling is fine now, but the burnout thing should be reverted as it makes no sense.

PS: Maybe I am biased as I can't afford a Drag 😭

 

 

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As you say, Eclipse RP is of course not 1:1 to real life, and I believe this isn't a case about realism. I think when the bike was added, the admin team knew what a drag bike was... this has never been a problem in the many, many and many years of the drag being in the game. Now, it seems like people are saying its because of realism that the drag is rendered useless, but isnt it a bit late to say that the changes are for realism? 

And yes, im all about for a realistic approach, but I just don't get how this is being handled. We were told that:

"Adjusted hakuchou2 handling, it will now burnout a bit more when accelarating from 0 and the braking speed has been lowered." 

A bit more? I would say a ton more. You cant even go up ANY incline (EDIT: This might have changed? Not yet tested). And the same goes for turning radio, a little bit? No, not a little bit, a HUGE amount. Why does everything need to be so drastic? Has the drag been tested before these updates where made? On paper, the changes might be good, but in the server they ain't. 

Edited by Appelgi
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The reason drags were nerfed was largely because alot of people started abandoning vehicles that their character would use, in favor of a vehicle which granted them an edge. The drag was OP, and thats really the only reason people used them.

Instead of a street gang driving muscle cars, lowriders, vans, they drove drags. Not because it suited their character/factions theme, but because like you said they felt more confident using it cause their chances of escape are much higher on it.

The nerf happened really because the drag was the biggest offender of this problem. While the drag nerf while push people to stop using the bike for the sake of its power, people will most likely just find the 2nd best bike/car to escape in and start using that. Its really a mentality issue that the community has and while nerfing the drag is part of the solution, its not going to automatically make people want to use RP vehicles overnight.

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23 minutes ago, kenichis said:

The reason drags were nerfed was largely because alot of people started abandoning vehicles that their character would use, in favor of a vehicle which granted them an edge. The drag was OP, and thats really the only reason people used them.

 

Dont think alot of people started to abondoning their vehicles for the drag, as the drag was around 2.5mil before the changes. It was only the long time criminals that could afford it. Those people that have played on the server for a long time are being punished now. 

 

25 minutes ago, kenichis said:

Instead of a street gang driving muscle cars, lowriders, vans, they drove drags. Not because it suited their character/factions theme, but because like you said they felt more confident using it cause their chances of escape are much higher on it.

 

People that want to drive a street gang related vehicle would drive it anyways, regardless if the drag is op or not. I dont understand this point. Those cars are never going to be "competitive" anyways and they will never be used as an ideal car, they are used to make a theme, to rolpelay. And this is good, but some people, including me dont want to RP as a street gang, and want to drive performance vehicles.  

 

27 minutes ago, kenichis said:

The nerf happened really because the drag was the biggest offender of this problem. While the drag nerf while push people to stop using the bike for the sake of its power, people will most likely just find the 2nd best bike/car to escape in and start using that. Its really a mentality issue that the community has and while nerfing the drag is part of the solution, its not going to automatically make people want to use RP vehicles overnight.

Obviously you buy a vehicle because you like it, its fast, I like it. And like you said, changing this wont change too much, something else will be the quickest or the best. I hope you're not surprised that criminals are driving high performance cars... They are needed to outrun cops, which a criminal needs to have.. thats why criminals IRL dont drive a lowrider in chases...

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5 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

If you bought the drag because you liked it or for RP reasons, nothing changed.

Owh, how did nothing get changed regarding I would like it or not? Do you think a character thinks its the same bike the bought before? No, I don't think so. He bought a high performance bike, which is not the case now. 

 

11 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

Things only changed if you bought the drag because it was OP.

Like I said above, people buy a vehicle because its good, yes, its good, but so are many other vehicles that are good. Every vehicle has its drawbacks, the drag too. 

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54 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

If you bought the drag because you liked it or for RP reasons, nothing changed. Things only changed if you bought the drag because it was OP.

Performance is an IC issue and a common IRL factor when purchasing a car. 

 

 

As for the issue with the drag, if performance was the issue I believe PD/SD should have been given an equivalent counter. Criminals still get the bike they like and PD/SD has a bigger chance to counter it. This has remained my opinion since the 240km/h limit, stop changing car performance and focus on matching it/adapting to it. Especially with rage 1.1 would be cool to see scripts that allow players to customize aspects and specs for their vehicles, focusing more on the tuning/custom built scene. 

Edited by Cyrus Raven
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13 minutes ago, Pootis said:

Sorry but if I bought a 2.5mil bike because I liked the look of it, and a week later I can't even turn a corner or drive up a 2% incline, I'd be pissed off. That has nothing to do with the reason you bought it.

The look have stayed the same. You can still enjoy the looks and the RP aspect of it. 

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7 hours ago, Appelgi said:

slight upper hand

You mean "free ticket away from 95% of pursuits."  Every single criminal was driving one at one point, even gangs where it made no sense IC that they'd drive bikes like that.  I didn't mind the drag but let's be honest, when every single person is using one, there's a problem.

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47 minutes ago, Victor Einhart said:

You mean "free ticket away from 95% of pursuits."  Every single criminal was driving one at one point, even gangs where it made no sense IC that they'd drive bikes like that.  I didn't mind the drag but let's be honest, when every single person is using one, there's a problem.

Yeah right every crim got 2.5 ready, and everyone is using them. Only crims that have been alot in the city are driving them.... its rediculous for you to say everyone drives em'

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To be fair, people bought vehicles that are good and accessible to them IC. 

 

If owning these types of vehicles wasn't intended they should cost a lot more via import price changes. I agree with others that seeing gangs using sports bike and cars all the time is not realistic, but why were they able to aquire these vehicles in the first place? Why weren't these vehicles priced higher, why didn't import prices for these change as the economy became more inflated over time? 

 

At this point might as well reset the economy, adjust prices to what was intended, forcing people who want to RP a life of crime into buying cars that fit not only their backstory, but their financial status. Breaking vehicles on purpose just seems weird. I'm fairly certain a wheelchair rides better than the drag in its current state. Not to mention it doesn't fix the "meta vehicles" trend that exists, there will always be the next best thing and I doubt the best course of action is to nerf them as they pop up. 

 

Edited by Cyrus Raven
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On the one hand, most people have purchased those Hakuchous specifically for their meta performance so them getting balanced would naturally encourage some negative reactions.
Totally get that. Every one wants what they've paid for right?

That being said, like the F620 and the Vortex or the Rapid GT / Comet before the 240 cap, the Hakuchou Drags was out of bounds when it comes to the rest of the car pool. In terms of pursuits, it's like chasing the Millennium Falcon when it hits light-speed. I'm fine with cars being fast and losing suspects, I don't need to win that bad, but when there isn't even a half chance, it's unacceptable.

There were options discussed months ago, where if these vehicles would have been used in a crime, they'd of been impounded indefinitely and I don't think while it would of been an IC move that would of been well received or popular.

If NBDY has tweaked performance of the drag bikes to me more as intended, then that's probably for the best of the server. There shouldn't be any script or vehicle or weapon advantage that is too far out of giving people a chance to react against it.

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1 hour ago, Bala said:

On the one hand, most people have purchased those Hakuchous specifically for their meta performance so them getting balanced would naturally encourage some negative reactions.
Totally get that. Every one wants what they've paid for right?

That being said, like the F620 and the Vortex or the Rapid GT / Comet before the 240 cap, the Hakuchou Drags was out of bounds when it comes to the rest of the car pool. In terms of pursuits, it's like chasing the Millennium Falcon when it hits light-speed. I'm fine with cars being fast and losing suspects, I don't need to win that bad, but when there isn't even a half chance, it's unacceptable.

There were options discussed months ago, where if these vehicles would have been used in a crime, they'd of been impounded indefinitely and I don't think while it would of been an IC move that would of been well received or popular.

If NBDY has tweaked performance of the drag bikes to me more as intended, then that's probably for the best of the server. There shouldn't be any script or vehicle or weapon advantage that is too far out of giving people a chance to react against it.

While I share the same idea for some of the things mentioned, its obvious that I dont feel the same about PD not being able to compete. PD has gotten many ways of countering high speed vehicles. You say that if you see a drag its game over, for criminals its a chopper, or a high speed unit. I think the drag is supposed to be one of the 'high-end' vehicles that would compete with the counterparts. Currently, nothing can counter PD, that is "reasonably" priced.

 

I agree that tweaking it is a good idea, I am not asking for a total rollback, but the drastic turning radius is for example way to much to handle. hah

Edited by Appelgi
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8 hours ago, Appelgi said:

People that want to drive a street gang related vehicle would drive it anyways, regardless if the drag is op or not. I dont understand this point. Those cars are never going to be "competitive" anyways and they will never be used as an ideal car, they are used to make a theme, to rolpelay. And this is good, but some people, including me dont want to RP as a street gang, and want to drive performance vehicles.  

 

Obviously you buy a vehicle because you like it, its fast, I like it. And like you said, changing this wont change too much, something else will be the quickest or the best. I hope you're not surprised that criminals are driving high performance cars... They are needed to outrun cops, which a criminal needs to have.. thats why criminals IRL dont drive a lowrider in chases...

If you're only going to use vehicles that are "competitive" instead of matching your own lore, then you're part of the problem. In which universe does a criminal have a streched drag bike and evades police using it on a daily basis? How many people in Eclipse actually use the drag as its meant to be used, to RP an actual drag bike, have drag races on a strip, etc.. If the changes were not made then the drag would've stayed as the go to OP vehicle that everyone wants to have. Not because its a prop that starts interesting roleplay, but because they want to up their chances of winning.

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20 minutes ago, kenichis said:

If you're only going to use vehicles that are "competitive" instead of matching your own lore, then you're part of the problem. In which universe does a criminal have a streched drag bike and evades police using it on a daily basis? How many people in Eclipse actually use the drag as its meant to be used, to RP an actual drag bike, have drag races on a strip, etc.. If the changes were not made then the drag would've stayed as the go to OP vehicle that everyone wants to have. Not because its a prop that starts interesting roleplay, but because they want to up their chances of winning.

Thank you by telling me how I should use the bike...

This is a discussion about why the drag has been dramatically changed. You keep on saying OP/everyone wants to have it, is this bad? Why is this bad? There are many vehicles which are "OP", including PD.  And its only logical people want to buy the best if they have enough money, this isn't weird, ya' know?

So you think the changes made are perfect, and should stay in place? 

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With the nerfs to drags fuel before the nerf to the turning radius, I know a lot of people that used the bike as a tool rather than a vehicle that they drove 24/7. When preparing for a bank heist or assisting friends to escape police, it was a good and effective tool. The fuel consumption was so harshly nerfed, it required frequent stops to fuel up if you were just driving it about which made it very risky as you'd rather have it fuelled up and ready to be deployed as soon as you needed it. This felt like an understandable nerf that had the potential to reduce the amount of drags seen on the road accompanied by the fact that drags are unable to go off road it had also given PD a much greater chance of catching you. Of course a PD cruiser will not catch a bike especially one that cost millions but when a criminal's tool (drags) was facing up against PDs counter tools (xray, PD bikes and supers) then it was a different story. It was no longer a ridiculously easy game of 'take two turns and you've lost PD' or 'drive up a hill' but rather forced us to think smartly.  Someone who invests into a drag deserves the full advantages of a 2.5 million dollar bike. From a criminal's perspective, things weren't the same - we would no longer put our full trust into the drag knowing that we could go from 0 to 100 in 2 seconds (a little exaggeration), drive up a hill/off road or sit on our drags 24/7 without refuelling.

My point is, there are different ways to deal with the drag as a meta vehicle and since it has been around for an extremely long time and also a prized possession for criminals, nerfing it to shit is an extreme and inconsiderate way of dealing with the issue. I understand that the drag may not perform realistically, but as previously mentioned, Eclipse isn't a 1:1 of real life which can be reflected with many different scripts and things in-game. A better solution would be to see how drags would be used after a longer period of time with the current fuel nerf rather than giving it a couple of days. Or you could give PD a greater arsenal of tools if drags are really an IC threat to them rather than take this OOC. I could go on with the different ways that drags could have been dealt with but I think you get my argument here (hopefully).

TLDR - The issue with drags could have been treated ICly by giving PD more counter tools or maybe not, shouldn't a rare bike deserve to win?? For the OOC aspect, factions and people who use drags outside of their lore vehicles as anything other than a tool for a crime, should be punished.

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Honestly, I feel like this is a really disheartening thing to do to anyone who invests a large amount of time into a community, removing basically all value out of a lot of peoples main asset to make it completely useless and then to mock the people who cared about it and the time they had put into acquiring that asset at a high price (priced so high because of how good it was, not just inflation). The fact that this can happen for quite honestly some BS reasons, makes me doubt whether I want to invest anymore effort into trying to obtain something if it will more than likely be nerfed. This can also be said about my Eclipse Towers apartment that held a decent and realistic value of roughly 1m, for there to be a lot more apartments added, not once but twice, then even more added in the bitcoin store. Completely ruining the value my asset had, for OOC reasons.

The fact that I'm worried I'll be banned for even voicing my opinion on the matter is also disappointing, I have seen people banned for talking about the drags being nerfed. I feel like it is extremely important that as a community we are at least allowed to voice our opinions and maybe even have a choice in what changes and additions are made within the community. 

I understand it's a privilege to play the server, that many idiots have taken for granted in the past, I appreciate whoever reads this for taking the time to do so.

 

Please fix the drags.

HJMauHS.png

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7 hours ago, Victor Einhart said:

You mean "free ticket away from 95% of pursuits."  Every single criminal was driving one at one point, even gangs where it made no sense IC that they'd drive bikes like that.  I didn't mind the drag but let's be honest, when every single person is using one, there's a problem.

this drag problem server was able to deal whit it IC for example 

 remove it from dealerships

if your drag got impounded in a PD chase or you bike use it for  crime purpose your vehicle will be impounded for 5 days (IRL) and you need to pay 30k fine to return it back 

main issue is this classic Eclipse RP when some thing get abused by some people (group of 3 to 4 player) staff team and head admins come in and start place a punishment for every one same thing happened for human meat because group of 5 player abuse the market and start farming human meat they just remove it from the market 

soon as a gang start's doing unrealistic shootouts they just put a announcement gun price are change now player need to pay double of the money they payed before 

all of this changed simply and the reason for it can simply deal whit it IC in game 

soon as group of people get bored from server they just start doing unrealistic action to just force the staff team the reduce and effect other people roleplay by changing game mechanic 

lot's of player payed more than 2.5m to get their own drag and trust me is not a free ticket to escape after changes but right now people looking to buy one for 500k so losing assist like this is very painful when is a easy way to deal with it in game 

 

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The drag lost at least 50% of its value because of an OOC reason(the update),

They used to worth 2.5mill. 

ICly, they should be the same and treated the same as before, but what about the people who spent endless OOC hours to make the money just to buy it? 

Most of the people who works in legal factions make around 150k - 200k.

So pretty much, at least for me, I lost the money that I made in 5 weeks for an OOC reason, for criminals, it's even worse. I'm not complaining, but this change was extremely harsh for everyone who owns a drag.

Hopefully they receive a tune in the future that would make them drivable. 

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I don`t think the problem is related to how much a Drag worth. A drag was 300k in the past.

For me at least , the drag was more like a symbol, basically it was the only vehicle that you can use to escape cops easily. To speak the truth , drag nerf is perceived by most of the people as another buff for cops. And the way that the nerf was done I think is bothering:

1. First it were removed from the dealerships.
2. After that we couldn`t use them because of the snow.
3. After that it was added the NonRP rule to drive them off-road.
4. The fuel consumption patch came and anyway its gas tank was small so you couldn`t use them on long term.
5. The wheel spin was increased. In my opinion this was the nerf that can make the difference. Why? Because basically the problem was that people could quickly get on the bike and because of its acceleration they could have easily leave. With the latest wheel spin, if you weren`t already on it, you can easily could have get a FearRP because it would have taken ages until you can leave.
6. The steering nerf, it really made it unusable.


Yes I RP a criminal, but I also had a SD alt so I know the frustration when you can`t catch a drag. But with all the nerfs from points 1 -> 5 I think you could have a chance. 

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Another point is, there is no asset for people to aspire for with the most expensive vehicle right now probably bring a Neon at 800k, the next vehicle above it is a Retro that sells anywhere between 12-20m which is unrealistic for almost every player. The drag used to be an icon and a huge motivating factor for people to work for months to buy. 
 

The bike was a big part of the DNA of Eclipse RP, cops even aspired to own one, you’d sometimes see 10-15 parked outside mission row. 
 


 

 

Edited by givejoshamosin
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IMO its not the end of the world everyone is making it out to be, it is so easy to lose pd on any bike on the server that has decent stats, and you know what you're doing. I once lost a whole convoy of pd with a stock vortex before they were removed from dealers, they go like 165 top speed stock. I had owned a drag myself bought it for 2 million, I like many other had only owned it for the stats of it due to what I was doing at the time I would find myself in situations with not only pd but other crims where I would be chased by many other people and a drag was the ONLY way to escape people with a DRAG. Now with this change its going to change things a bit to where you don't have to pay 2.5M to have a chance now every bike has its advantage and flaw, there is no more god tier bike that you need or players with the bike will be at a great advantage. sure there will still be certain "meta" bikes but not as strong as before. the same argument keeps getting made about the comet retro but its simply NOT COMPARABLE, there is certain cars that can keep up with the comet retro, F620 (used to be able), Rapid gt which is a 350k car is amazing with keeping up with the retro, but people fail to realize there isn't a single bike that can even come close to staying on a drag the way they use to be maybe the Shotaro, but once again a 30m bike, people can now use what they like/admire without having to worry about it not being possible to outrun a drag unless you have a drag yourself.

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I would also like to my input and opinion on this matter.

After the fuel consumption update, I decided to give the hakuchou drag for a few spins, I even got in a pursuit with cops and I can honestly say during the chase fuel was being consumed drastically and had to think for more options to get away, it even favored more PD to catch me rather than my escape. The recent update with the amount of spins you need to perform a turn is kind of impossible. To get the drag it wasn't easy to get your hands onto, you needed to grind for months.

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