DELETE

[Cinek0344]

I was mistaken and don't want this post to be here anymore, my POV has changed.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Cinek0344

[NoobDude]

58 minutes ago, Cinek0344 said:

Maybe make it so that factioned gangs are not allowed to be allied. I'm slightly biased being a Saint myself but I reckon it would make things more interesting and would force the big 3 to ally up with smaller non-factioned gangs? 

 

Unless theres a big problem, I really liked the fact how all the gangs came together to break one of the leaders out, but otherwise then that this server has kinda become about winning and not rping, people care more about making a lot of money quickly rather than enjoying interactions.

Totally agreed. At this point, EVERY shootout is between gangs vs cops and not gangs vs gangs. I frequently check montages/videos and pretty much everything is about shootout with cops. People keep talking about how Zetas are pretty strong and untouchable but if they are truely untouchable then they wouldn't have trouble fending off threat from other rival gangs. It applies to other official gangs as well.

At the end of the day, it only shows gangs here are pussies. They are only good for wielding their superiority over unarmed civilians. This monopoly between the 3 major gangs  will not encourage smaller crews to create a gang since they will need to have lots of resources and members in order to challenge the big 3 alliance.

Let's hope for a change.

[MrUntouchable215]

5 hours ago, NoobDude said:

Totally agreed. At this point, EVERY shootout is between gangs vs cops and not gangs vs gangs. I frequently check montages/videos and pretty much everything is about shootout with cops. People keep talking about how Zetas are pretty strong and untouchable but if they are truely untouchable then they wouldn't have trouble fending off threat from other rival gangs. It applies to other official gangs as well.

At the end of the day, it only shows gangs here are pussies. They are only good for wielding their superiority over unarmed civilians. This monopoly between the 3 major gangs  will not encourage smaller crews to create a gang since they will need to have lots of resources and members in order to challenge the big 3 alliance.

Let's hope for a change.

Wrong. Los Zetas, Clowns and Irish have fought major wars with other gangs, rival gangs. Narcos, Vice Lords, Gates, Chambers, etc. There were plenty, you're just not involved enough to see it pan out. There's videos on youtube on it as well. The post above you mentioned forcing big gangs to only ally with smaller ones? How do you know one of our allies weren't small at some point? Are we supposed to drop alliance because they grew? Los Zetas was small yet we got accepted into the council, we just so happened to grow. 

These "new" gangs wouldn't have an issue with any of us but for some reason, every new gang wants the throne. Instead of making your own shit and going through the trials like everyone else, they always want to start shit with the bigger gangs and end up getting stomped out. If you don't come correct, you don't deserve to exist in the criminal underworld. The whole point of the council was to shape Los Santos into OUR ideal vision, not yours. We've went full scale war with PD for it, full scale war with other big gangs like Narcos, Monroes, Vice lords, and so many others. 

If we're openly speaking, the ones upset about the big alliance we have always say the same thing. "Gangs are pussies" or "Shouldn't have big alliances" in my mind that says two more things. "I'm upset because it isn't us" and "I want to be able to DM everyone without massive consequences" All of these people want the big gangs to fight each other instead of grooming themselves into becoming an ideal faction. Make no mistake, Yes, cops also get a foul treatment from gangs but these recent days, they've been sticking their nose where it doesn't belong. I watched them raid a drug rehab spot and search everyone looking for heavies. You can't do drugs icly and it's not allowed to get off them either apparently. 

"If they are truly untouchable then they wouldn't have trouble fending off threats from other rival gangs" 

let's talk about it.

Edited April 6, 2019 by MrUntouchable215

[Swifty]

I don't agree with the what you suggested, but I do think staff need to look at implementing a more open and transparent rule set for gangs. At the moment in time we don't have any (at least public) rules of engagement for factions or seemingly any way in which gangs can be taken down by law enforcement. This has to change, and the sooner it does the better.

[Bala]

The OP is spot on, it's probably the hand-holding between the allied factions that caused Vice to close in the first place.
Since then, the illegal faction scene has lost it's edge.

Call me old fashioned but isn't the whole point of being in a faction, that it's you and your faction members against it all? 

To make YOUR faction richer. To make YOUR faction more powerful. To make YOUR faction the most reputable.

If you are all living out of each others pockets, the fuck is the point?

[MrUntouchable215]

2 minutes ago, GOAT said:

The OP is spot on, it's probably the hand-holding between the allied factions that caused Vice to close in the first place.
Since then, the illegal faction scene has lost it's edge.

Call me old fashioned but isn't the whole point of being in a faction, that it's you and your faction members against it all? 

To make YOUR faction richer. To make YOUR faction more powerful. To make YOUR faction the most reputable.

If you are all living out of each others pockets, the fuck is the point?

Here's a secret that most don't share. Building friendships is more important than building enemies. If you want your faction to prosper and stand the test of time, you need friends you can rely on. If you're fighting against everyone, you will eventually fall or things will be so chaotic and uncontrollable that you will never have peace. Peace brings money. Open drug labs, protected store robberies, shared businesses, etc and comparable forces. The reason why the big three are so successful isn't just the alliance, it's because the values and rules of the game come directly from real life. Yes, there are some open street conflicts which are unrealistic but the attitude, meetings and mutual interests/respect comes from server experience as well. Every gang that was/is within the council stood the test of time because of those key factors.

Clowns can run the streets by themselves, Zetas can run the streets by themselves and so can irish and the older Shadow Cartel and La Familia. The one thing people on this server need to understand, especially the new guys is, all of these gangs used to be enemies at some point. Most of the people in Zetas were in opposite, waring factions. We clapped at each other on the daily and now that we've formed that bond through violence, imagine what we'll do to others? That's the point. A successful faction is a faction that can form strong friendships that can make the rules. "If you are all living out of each others pockets, the fuck is the point?" that is extremely inaccurate but I'll answer you; power. If we want to raise the price of weapons, we have the ability to do that. If we want to raise the price of gas, we can do that too. That's not bragging, that's literally hard work and a LOT of play time. We were like this before each of these gangs became official and that will be the case regardless. There's a simple way around us and I'm waiting for people to figure it out.

[Bala]

Something maybe you need to realise that being friends with your only real competition has a negative impact for everyone else and whether you realise it or not, your own factions.

[MrUntouchable215]

 

2 minutes ago, GOAT said:

Something maybe you need to realise that being friends with your only real competition has a negative impact for everyone else and whether you realise it or not, your own factions.

It has zero negative impact for us. The only negative impact is the feed back from smaller gangs and in that case, you're correct. The alliance was formed long before all of this for many reasons. It's not going to stop because ya'll want it to. That's like telling us to slow down because no one else can catch up. I could say the same about the amount of millionairs on the server in comparison to the people who aren't. They flood the market, buy up the businesses and on top of the 5% tax on shit, it's harder now more than ever to generate a great cash flow. On top of the weekly checks from government jobs and the lack of labor. You have to build on top of what's given and in that, you have no choice. If we ever disapear, there will be someone else to take our place because the foundation on how to do it has already been laid out. ECRP has changed, change with it

[Bala]

Oh you think it has no negative impact for you? 

As a faction, you are only as good as your enemies and you don't have any. If someone does pick a fight with the 60 person faction, they have to contend with the other two factions backing them up as well. In every instance there, there is zero possibility to win. If there is no possibility of winning, why would you try?

Why would Zetas care?

Because it's your server too? Complacency = Boredom eventually. There is going to come a point where people get tired of robbing fishermen and farmers. I don't know the ins and outs of the faction history but it's my understanding that you guys allied because of Vice? Vice been gone and it's not coming back. It's gone because of this exact scenario, you fall out with one faction and the other two are with it constantly.

I look at this new Marcello family and it's like, how long before you guys are squeezing them with your allies.

What honestly is the problem with Zetas standing by themselves now? Like IC story aside, let me ask you what you would lose from doing that?

[Marca]

There's no real reason for gangs to have wars between each other. Now if you add in turfs that provide a controlling gang with benefits, then they have a reason to fight. Constantly fighting between each other could be just a warzone, so I think staff should be somehow involved into this, to make sure the RP standards are there and that turf wars are sort of a "special event" for the gangs.

[reeceobz]

1 hour ago, GOAT said:

What honestly is the problem with Zetas standing by themselves now? Like IC story aside, let me ask you what you would lose from doing that?

So we are supposed to go to war with every other gang because the new ones dont have a chance? We have made good friends with our allies both ic and ooc so why would we want to do that?

[Cinek0344]

it was just a suggestion

 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2019 by Cinek0344

[Cinek0344]

but the thing is that any 'gang wars' aren't wars, pistols vs aks and shotguns everytime, in that case a rivaling gang should be factioned.

 

 

Edited April 7, 2019 by Cinek0344

[Cinek0344]

4 hours ago, Marca said:

There's no real reason for gangs to have wars between each other. Now if you add in turfs that provide a controlling gang with benefits, then they have a reason to fight. Constantly fighting between each other could be just a warzone, so I think staff should be somehow involved into this, to make sure the RP standards are there and that turf wars are sort of a "special event" for the gangs.

i was thinking for the rp side of things, with that thinking doesn't it make the whole point of rp obsolete? (not trying to sound rude just dont know any better way of putting it sorry :/)

[TheCanadian]

-1 in my eyes currently, this seems like an IC issue that shouldn't be screwed with OOCly.

The established factions and their members have known each other, built and solidified their friendship (or enmity) over months and years both IC and OOC. For these IC relationships and allies to be forced to stop because some guys who are relatively new to the server don't like what is happening to them is not a valid reason in my opinion.

 

16 hours ago, MrUntouchable215 said:

These "new" gangs wouldn't have an issue with any of us but for some reason, every new gang wants the throne. Instead of making your own shit and going through the trials like everyone else, they always want to start shit with the bigger gangs and end up getting stomped out. If you don't come correct, you don't deserve to exist in the criminal underworld. The whole point of the council was to shape Los Santos into OUR ideal vision, not yours. We've went full scale war with PD for it, full scale war with other big gangs like Narcos, Monroes, Vice lords, and so many others. 

This hits it right on the fucking nail. Every gang who wants to be something has to go through the dirt, and go against or prove themselves to the established gangs. This should not be solved OOC as this is an entirely IC issue.

 

There has been too much invested in these relationships of the factions over very long periods of time for it to be changed OOCly because new up and coming gangs find it not to their liking that they are getting robbed and killed because their IC actions have consequences for better or worse. This should be an IC issue, going to talk to the gangs figure out if there's any form of compromise you can reach, payment to stop the battle, get creative. If there isn't? Keep it IC, no reason to take it OOC. What is currently happening with saints or whatever other gang has happened before, and will continue to happen in the future.

 

 

Edited April 7, 2019 by TheCanadian

[punched]

I am a member of PD and used to mainly play a criminal alt. Some of the new players think that zetas, clowns, irish, etc ruled the streets and were always allies from the beginning, which is not the case. There was a long period of time when gangs came and went, and those able to stand the test of time reaped the benefits (script support, offical status). You want to topple these gangs and their relations? Create your own gang, get big and do what you want. There is nothing stopping you other than your own will.

[Cinek0344]

Just now, TheCanadian said:

-1 in my eyes currently, this seems like an IC issue that shouldn't be screwed with OOCly.

The established factions and their members have known each other, built and solidified their friendship (or enmity) over months and years both IC and OOC. For these IC relationships and allies to be forced to stop because some guys who are relatively new to the server 

 

This hits it right on the fucking nail. Every gang who wants to be something has to go through the dirt, and go against or prove themselves to the established gangs. This should not be solved OOC as this is an entirely IC issue.

 

There has been too much invested in these relationships of the factions over very long periods of time for it to be changed OOCly because new up and coming gangs find it not to their liking that they are getting robbed and killed because their IC actions have consequences for better or worse. This should be an IC issue, going to talk to the gangs figure out if there's any form of compromise you can reach, payment to stop the battle, get creative. If there isn't? Keep it IC, no reason to take it OOC. What is currently happening with saints or whatever other gang has happened before, and will continue to happen in the future.

 

 

i understand where your coming from and I do agree, I didn't think of the OOC friendships and also ive only played on here for not even a month but it was a subject which has been floating around between the smaller gangs and since IC we can't talk with zetas, clowns and irish I thought this would be a better place for a discussion

 

[Cinek0344]

3 minutes ago, punched said:

I am a member of PD and used to mainly play a criminal alt. Some of the new players think that zetas, clowns, irish, etc ruled the streets and were always allies from the beginning, which is not the case. There was a long period of time when gangs came and went, and those able to stand the test of time reaped the benefits (script support, offical status). You want to topple these gangs and their relations? Create your own gang, get big and do what you want. There is nothing stopping you other than your own will.

also another thing I didn't think of is if two of the current smaller gangs who are allies got factioned in the future, they would have to break ties which would be absurd

 

[Cinek0344]

But maybe something could be done to help the little guys, maybe like a half-factioned status, which is easier to obtain and gives some extra benefits? Cause currently we are being mocked as being the bank hq gang, sometimes i even feel as if the rp becomes OOC but I hope that its not, but its all because we don't stand a chance against factioned gangs, as aks make desync much easier to manage plus armor makes them very powerful so I don't have any ideas but what do you guys think of a half-factioned status? it could be obtained by the amount of wealth the gang has or something like that?

 

Edited April 7, 2019 by Cinek0344

[TheCanadian]

20 minutes ago, Cinek0344 said:

But maybe something could be done to help the little guys, maybe like a half-factioned status, which is easier to obtain and gives some extra benefits?

This is going to sound rude, but i don't know how else to say it. It sounds like you are requesting a crutch to get somewhere or reach a status faster than others had to in the past and with less work than they put in. The 3 factions you mentioned worked their ass off over a very long period of time to get to where they are both icly and oocly. It seems like you are just asking for a shortcut there, not to have to do as much work to earn the status and respect ICly.

 

21 minutes ago, Cinek0344 said:

also another thing I didn't think of is if two of the current smaller gangs who are allies got factioned in the future, they would have to break ties which would be absurd

There is such a thing as merging.

Edited April 7, 2019 by TheCanadian

[JayGamble]

 

5 hours ago, GOAT said:

Oh you think it has no negative impact for you? 

As a faction, you are only as good as your enemies and you don't have any. If someone does pick a fight with the 60 person faction, they have to contend with the other two factions backing them up as well. In every instance there, there is zero possibility to win. If there is no possibility of winning, why would you try?

Why would Zetas care?

Because it's your server too? Complacency = Boredom eventually. There is going to come a point where people get tired of robbing fishermen and farmers. I don't know the ins and outs of the faction history but it's my understanding that you guys allied because of Vice? Vice been gone and it's not coming back. It's gone because of this exact scenario, you fall out with one faction and the other two are with it constantly.

I look at this new Marcello family and it's like, how long before you guys are squeezing them with your allies.

What honestly is the problem with Zetas standing by themselves now? Like IC story aside, let me ask you what you would lose from doing that?

We don't go around robbing fishermen and farmers in the first place. We are one of the longest standing gangs, so clearly complacency isn't an issue. The council existed long before Vice was even created so I'm not sure where that came from. Are you aware that in almost every "war" we've played a major role in "fighting" without outside assistance, we didn't even utilize "joint frequencies" our allies have established in the past. Zeta's isn't a gang that "calls on others" to fight wars. Perhaps these new gangs should invest themselves in "criminal rp" and politics vs "how fast can we get a gun and shoot at the notable gangs". The council was literally created to police smaller gangs, from behaving like monsters.. and gangs that step out of line ultimately become targets. Ask the numerous other small gangs that exist in the city with zero problem from us. 

 

This is "multiple" small gangs, grouping up and trying to fight us. This isn't criminal RP.. this is people running around shooting for excitement. Majority of "new" gangs I've encountered are here to DM every chance they get, not create quality RP. The "deepest" criminal RP I've been apart of on this server is alongside these gangs that help makeup the "council". 

At the end of the day, time and time again we see it with the new smaller gangs that come; they expect to be on the same level as people who have developed their factions over the better half of a year and have an equal standing, versus taking the time to build something reasonable through RP means. Zetas started with 6 people in a back yard, when there were 5 other major gangs (20-30 members), we did not "start out" where we are. I can tell you, we didn't go the route you guys did to get here, and we did quite well. People go out of their way to target Zetas, and then are upset when we retaliate. 

Edited April 7, 2019 by JayGamble

[Cinek0344]

22 minutes ago, TheCanadian said:

This is going to sound rude, but i don't know how else to say it. It sounds like you are requesting a crutch to get somewhere or reach a status faster than others had to in the past. The 3 factions you mentioned worked their ass off over a very long period of time to get to where they are both icly and oocly. It seems like you are just asking for a shortcut there, not to have to do as much work to earn the status and respect ICly.

 

There is such a thing as merging.

I don't think theres any other way right now though. Personally I'll take a defeat any day as long as rp is followed, this is my first rp server ever and i fucking love rping, i'll literally rp anything even like trying to swat a bee away and getting an anaphylactic shock to a paramedic  but too many people arent that stubborn these days and just leave to join the bigger gangs or their allies cause its easier and there may come a point where everyone is just allies and I don't think anyone wants that?

I'm not saying that my original suggestion should be used but maybe some other way?

 

Edited April 7, 2019 by Cinek0344

[Cinek0344]

3 minutes ago, JayGamble said:

 

We don't go around robbing fishermen and farmers in the first place. We are one of the longest standing gangs, so clearly complacency isn't an issue. The council existed long before Vice was even created so I'm not sure where that came from. Are you aware that in almost every "war" we've played a major role in "fighting" without outside assistance, we didn't even utilize "joint frequencies" our allies have established in the past. Zeta's isn't a gang that "calls on others" to fight wars. Perhaps these new gangs should invest themselves in "criminal rp" and politics vs "how fast can we get a gun and shoot at the notable gangs". The council was literally created to police smaller gangs, from behaving like monsters.. and gangs that step out of line ultimately become targets. Ask the numerous other small gangs that exist in the city with zero problem from us. 

 

This is "multiple" small gangs, grouping up and trying to fight us. This isn't criminal RP.. this is people running around shooting for excitement. Majority of "new" gangs I've encountered are here to DM every chance they get, not create quality RP. The "deepest" criminal RP I've been apart of on this server is alongside these gangs that help makeup the "council". 

At the end of the day, time and time again we see it with the new smaller gangs that come; they expect to be on the same level as people who have developed their factions over the better half of a year and have an equal standing, versus taking the time to build something reasonable through RP means. Zetas started with 6 people in a back yard, when there were 5 other major gangs (20-30 members), we did not start "out" where we are. I can tell you, we didn't go the route you guys did to get here, and we did quite well. People go out of their way to target Zetas, and then are upset when we retaliate. 

the only thing i dislike about some of your newer recruits don't like rping either, i'm not telling you how to run your gang cause you are clearly doing a fine job as it is, but maybe some of the superiors in your gang should roll with the new guys as alts to see how bad the rp is sometimes, I understand that there is bad rp all around the city but its just an idea?

 

[NoobDude]

9 hours ago, GOAT said:

I look at this new Marcello family and it's like, how long before you guys are squeezing them with your allies.

I would place my bet by saying that IF Marcello Family won't be part of the 'Grand Alliance' within 2 weeks, I would CK my character.

At the end of the day, Gangs on GTA 5 RP are soyboys. I wish some of the SA-MP gangs come over here. Most of the SA-MP gangs I've been part of have been solid to the core and always went alone and never relied on allies. That's how you show your supremacy.

[Donovan]

In my opinion, it all comes down to the fact that people expect to become " relevant " to the criminal aspect of the server in a matter of days or weeks because they are grouped up with few of their friends or got an idea of how things should work based on movies and tv-series, please stand aside for a second , look at it from a real-life perspective for a second , would you move to a new city with 5-6 friends , hear a name of a gang controlling a certain part of the city or running certain operation ( drug trafficking for example ) and just get pistols or purchase few heavier weapons and search around to find them and rob them ? How do you think that would end irl?  Please, people, do not get salty over loot that is what ruined a lot of gangs that had great potential because they would invest everything they got for a few days trying to assert dominance by hitting influential gangs all the time they would be on, eventually run out of  resources or will to fight and lose and they would just die out ... But then you have gangs who have been on the server for a long time without getting into problems with us because they have adjusted their behavior to the current situation and found a way to get on good terms... It's how everything works in life, people get a wrong perception because they tend to make ideas and scenarios in their mind when they are in the state of anger after losing an engagement ingame instead of thinking with cool heads after the dust settles ... Council hasn't officially ICly went against anyone since VICE situation but you would still Zetas/Irish/Clowns go together and help each other because most importantly we are friends ICly and OOCly not because of an Alliance or anything, but because of long-term friendship and even relationship between those " gangs ".