FS 2.0 Tier System?

[sakkama]

Huge +1

the long way to get tiers, what first tiers contains and the punishment rule gonna demotivate all crim players tbh

[Dola]

1 hour ago, Demonmit1 said:

Yeah, that's just how meta guns work. You change this one, and a new one will fill its place. Its meta because of how good it is for the price, its a really efficient weapon to use. I see a lot of this as a crim vs crim focused change, and I totally agree that LEO factions are OP well beyond than they need to be. Having the .50 so high up in tiers is an interesting place to put it, and I can see both sides. .50 is what people are used to and what they like, and losing easy access to it is frustrating. But, its not like its being removed or its damage nerfed, its just not going to be as common, and the people that will have access to it have more or less proven themselves with quality RP that they can handle having such an efficient weapon in a reasonable manner.

Regarding SNS vs 100AP, a tier 2 faction probably should not be attempting to go head to head in a gunfight with their tier of weapons against a tier 7 faction. When its crim vs PD, then yeah, PD has always been OP, and should be looked at on how to balance, but should still regularly have the upper hand as its a government funded and trained faction.

Crims aren't typically supposed to win against PD. if Crims win against PD, PD fucked up and did something wrong. Crims should be managing interactions and evading, not outgunning LEO in every situation. 

agreed. Thats why I said that, the way there is now hard OOC rules to follow for gangs or else they will lose tiers, is FM attempting to force a culture change. If it ends up working out, its better for the server overall. if it doesnt work out, we'll see an exodus of long standing groups and players that didn't want to conform to the new rules.

Crims are not going to evade to save their sns pistols. Just going to get pulled over, take the L and go prison over and over and over again on a daily basis

[Ash]

Not a crim, just someone that used to be Faction Management and is just curious.

I'm confused about one main issue everyone is bringing up here, the wait to get tiers.
Is the wait in the new system to get things such as the .50 longer than it takes a gang to get official (and therefore any kind of import) with the old system? Because from what I know, it could take 6+ months to get official and even then it was quite hard?

When I viewed this new tier system it seemed more like the shittier guns like sns were more of a stepping stone of being able to import something a lot earlier than any gang would have been able to historically? Again, please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just trying to understand the arguments made

[Homast]

1 hour ago, surg3yy said:

1 skill doesn't win against shit that’s so unrealistically unfair you except crims to win against pd worh “skill” when a ak can’t even kill a cop with a full mag td you think a hp will do 

Literal Skill Issue. Many crims kill cops on the regular with single mags.

Ask Vangaurd, Ask Irish, Ask Lost MC, They regularly do it. You know why?  Because their members have all spent time improving their clapping ability on DM servers, They can aim and they know how to position.

Next gunfight we're in, i'm gunna watch you and see if you run into the middle of the area and call you out on it if you don't think that's the case.
 

1 hour ago, surg3yy said:

2. Punishments rule is dumb you recruit 2 new people to try and help advance crim rp with newer members those 2 go to a lab alone and break a rule that they didn’t understand now the 30 man gang gets punished and is more likely to not add newer people in the future in fear that they will be punished. The new “crim update” has only push crims away from the server and has taken away the want and desire of getting offical.

No, what it does is ensure that newer players aren't all flocking to single gangs. It also gives incentives to players being more protective and selective with their recruitment. Recruiting for numbers has and always will be whack, and now there's incentive to promote quality members instead of players who don't know anything.

Newer players should use their first weeks to be learning the rules before they make ANY desicion as to whether or not they should go Legal or Crim, and certainly should be making a name for themselves if they want to be joining already highly recognized and highly respected gangs.

The Cartel doesn't wanna ICly work with someone who recruits George Smith 19m from Birmingham who gets put in the slammer every weekend for drunk driving. Why would they want you to promote that kind of standard on an OOC level?

 

1 hour ago, surg3yy said:

3. We can’t even say slurs man wtf!!!

Tragic right?

[Dola]

32 minutes ago, Ash said:

Not a crim, just someone that used to be Faction Management and is just curious.

I'm confused about one main issue everyone is bringing up here, the wait to get tiers.
Is the wait in the new system to get things such as the .50 longer than it takes a gang to get official (and therefore any kind of import) with the old system? Because from what I know, it could take 6+ months to get official and even then it was quite hard?

When I viewed this new tier system it seemed more like the shittier guns like sns were more of a stepping stone of being able to import something a lot earlier than any gang would have been able to historically? Again, please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just trying to understand the arguments made

The argument is pretty much the bigger gangs (which realistically should be more connected to the cartel because of their strength/presence) will never be able to order anything efficient because even if 30 members stay clean of punishments for 10 months, thats still an average of 3 punishments a month which is not allowed if you want promotion. You can have a active good gang doing lots of great positive rp for the server, but with the strict restrictions will never progress because of their size. And this type of update would be fine if it was released many years ago but the servers life span is not long enough (because of gta 6 etc) to make this type of impossible grind acceptable + it severely nerfs crims vs pd once again. We will not conform!

[Andrei Jenkins]

+1 I agree with everything said by Dola

[Bakmeel]

FM 2.0 was never intended to give .50s to everyone without requiring them to actually work for it.

.50s will not be any harder to acquire with the new system than they used to be. Previously, only official factions could import these, and you had to obtain them through these official factions. In the new tier system, these factions will start at a higher tier than others to acknowledge their previous efforts and to meet the demand of the criminal community.

Under the old system, if you wanted to import them yourself, you had to invest months of work into your faction. That hasn't changed. What FM 2.0 provides are stepping stones for factions as they progress, instead of an all-or-nothing situation. Naturally, the less desirable items will be unlocked first. Additionally, it offers a way for factions that previously had a low chance of becoming official within a reasonable timeframe, due to their continuous questionable behavior on the server, to import items sooner.

If you are worried about your faction members breaking too many rules, you should reconsider your faction members and vet/train them properly. This should have always been the case, even under the old system, but some never cared to do so.

As we have stated before, the tier system is open to changes and tweaks once the community has had a chance to experience it themselves. Just don't expect a .50 within a month or if you don't care to run a tight ship.

 

[Quietthecutie]

39 minutes ago, Dola said:

The argument is pretty much the bigger gangs (which realistically should be more connected to the cartel because of their strength/presence) will never be able to order anything efficient because even if 30 members stay clean of punishments for 10 months, thats still an average of 3 punishments a month which is not allowed if you want promotion. You can have a active good gang doing lots of great positive rp for the server, but with the strict restrictions will never progress because of their size. And this type of update would be fine if it was released many years ago but the servers life span is not long enough (because of gta 6 etc) to make this type of impossible grind acceptable + it severely nerfs crims vs pd once again. We will not conform!

Settle down Shia LaBeouf 

Honestly I think the fact Crim orgs will now need to vet their members more closely and raise standards is a good thing. Out with the old technique of accepting anyone who has a few guns and a meta car because hey, we are not capped so we could use the extra hands.

When you run a gang, it is an RP commitment, gangs have to write lore and stick to it, this is what gives them their identity. Gangs like LOST and ENVY are great examples of this. both frequently run events or ops that coincide with their lore. this also means that not just anyone is a good fit for their orgs. other gangs i could name frequently ride roughshot with their lore or ignore it altogether once the opening hype has passed doing just enough to get official before forgetting about it altogether. you have to be selective even if that means you are not always running at max cap.

Its no surprise that the smaller, more selective gangs are usually the ones with minimal forum reports and even fewer punishments. and i believe if you run a gang you should take some responsibility for who you allow to join you just like a legal faction would.  after all your organisation enables a lot of their roleplay, so you do have a duty of care.

Now the actual numbers, limits and timeframes are open to debate. do i think 2 punishments in any month is too harsh? not enough? i dont know. i dont think any of us actually know how this is gonna play out just yet. but for now im confident enough with my crim and their gang that im not concerned.
 

[MrSilky]

I have been maining crim RP since February consistently and used to main crim back in the “glory” day of Zetas, Triads, Aztecas etc and I feel this is an extremely positive change for the following reasons:

1 - Official status used to take at least 6 months and usually closer to a year to obtain. Imports were also not guaranteed at this point and additional months may be needed to get these. This new system offers “stepping stones” through natural progression and reaching T5 will still be HALF the required time minimum on the legacy system of official status.

2 - What’s stopping you from still developing relationships with “established” factions (such as Rooks/OTF/Lost) who will naturally be in a position to import the more special things (as they do now) while you build your own faction up through the tiers gradually strengthening your own cartel connections. This will also lead to factions being respected ICly more through their own dedication and hard work by maintaining consistency in their faction.

3 - Im gonna go out of a limb here and say the punishments for demotion will be cases where your faction has maliciously acted in a way that poorly represents your faction. If little Jimmy the new player got a warning for Fear RP and educated how to do better moving forward and they were receptive for that - I highly doubt that will be held against the faction. FM are in place and are motivated to build factions up, not beat them down by ticking boxes blindly.

This change will do a lot of good for the health of crim RP as it will stop you blindly hopping in the stash to pull out the same loadout you’ve been using for years while also allowing relationships to develop between factions to add a natural self-governing environment. High tier factions will be more respected ICly and your own factions will be motivated to push to the next tier each month.

[Dola]

11 minutes ago, Quietthecutie said:

Settle down Shia LaBeouf 

Honestly I think the fact Crim orgs will now need to vet their members more closely and raise standards is a good thing. Out with the old technique of accepting anyone who has a few guns and a meta car because hey, we are not capped so we could use the extra hands.

When you run a gang, it is an RP commitment, gangs have to write lore and stick to it, this is what gives them their identity. Gangs like LOST and ENVY are great examples of this. both frequently run events or ops that coincide with their lore. this also means that not just anyone is a good fit for their orgs. other gangs i could name frequently ride roughshot with their lore or ignore it altogether once the opening hype has passed doing just enough to get official before forgetting about it altogether. you have to be selective even if that means you are not always running at max cap.

Its no surprise that the smaller, more selective gangs are usually the ones with minimal forum reports and even fewer punishments. and i believe if you run a gang you should take some responsibility for who you allow to join you just like a legal faction would.  after all your organisation enables a lot of their roleplay, so you do have a duty of care.

Now the actual numbers, limits and timeframes are open to debate. do i think 2 punishments in any month is too harsh? not enough? i dont know. i dont think any of us actually know how this is gonna play out just yet. but for now im confident enough with my crim and their gang that im not concerned.
 

I dont know how other people recruit but my members are recruited from being friends or friend of a friend and I feel most gangs are like that. We all want to enjoy the server and the best way to do that is with friends. Your telling me I have to maybe kick friends from a gang because they got a punishment here and there? I just dont get the strictness. Even the safe crims who play it extra safe sometimes catch a punishment here and there. I just think it should be based on in game activity and your contribution to the server (events, alt rp etc). 

[Bakmeel]

The decision to kick people will be yours. Our new system doesn't require you to kick people that get punishments. What you do need to do, is reconsider what you want your faction to be. A group of friends who dont want to hold each other accountable or a group of friends who keeps each other in check and strives to be a better version of themselves. Furthermore, the people "who play it extra safe sometimes catch a punishment here and there" (which is the biggest part of the crim community) have nothing to worry about as there is leeway in our system for people who sometimes make a mistake.

If you want to be succesful in the new system you have to put in the work to be succesful.

[Gustavo Prez]

+1 i dont think making a "meta gun" harder to get is the solution, maybe increase the price of it instead of making gangs wait months to even get the chance to import it.

[Bakmeel]

5 minutes ago, Gustavo Prez said:

+1 i dont think making a "meta gun" harder to get is the solution, maybe increase the price of it instead of making gangs wait months to even get the chance to import it.

1 hour ago, Bakmeel said:

.50s will not be any harder to acquire with the new system than they used to be. Previously, only official factions could import these, and you had to obtain them through these official factions. In the new tier system, these factions will start at a higher tier than others to acknowledge their previous efforts and to meet the demand of the criminal community.

Please read what is being said before commenting

[Quietthecutie]

1 hour ago, Dola said:

I dont know how other people recruit but my members are recruited from being friends or friend of a friend and I feel most gangs are like that. We all want to enjoy the server and the best way to do that is with friends. Your telling me I have to maybe kick friends from a gang because they got a punishment here and there? I just dont get the strictness. Even the safe crims who play it extra safe sometimes catch a punishment here and there. I just think it should be based on in game activity and your contribution to the server (events, alt rp etc). 

No, thats not how we recruit. we recruit on a number of factors.

1. is your standing in the community. we are looking to recruit experenced roleplayers with skin in the game.

2. youll have a sitdown with the group and a discussion about who we are and what we are about. then youll have a turn to tell the group a little bit about yourself. we try to get as many of our members down for this. this step is crucial as it lets you know what we expect going in and sets the tone.

3. after this stage if everyones happy we will share certain information and frequencies with you and you can start doing ops with us. this is a good time to see how you handle yourself in the field both ICly and OOCly and its not about how well you drive or shoot. we are more looking for your RP chops, your ability to listen and talk well and most importantly how you react both ICly and OOCly when things dont go well for you.

stage 3 can go on for weeks before we make a decision on if we want you to be a full time member with us. its not a snap decision. its not something we take lightly. 

That is an extremely condensed summary of how our org recruits. and it works. 0 punishments and barely any kind of report activity because we are careful with who joins us.

Now none of this is to say the people we recruit are not already friends with us somehow, be it friend of a friend or their alt being known and friendly to us or something like that. however, if they are not a good fit for the group we would let them know. and if they are unwilling to compromise on their character or their playstyle well, then maybe our org is not for them. this is us being responsible as an org in our recruitment process. this "oh hes a friend of a friend of a friend and he sounds cool" shit would never fly. you should need more than that to join a top tier criminal org.

And honestly if thats your entry criteria do you really think its a bad thing you dont have access to top tier imports when other orgs are putting in that effort? like that seems perfectly reasonable to me in terms of you getting out what you put in.

and this isnt me stiffling your RP or saying you cant have certain guns, you can. you'll just have to purchase them third party.

[sakkama]

I wanna add something and with all my respect i think the punishment rule might need a recheck, lets look into the negativity and not only the positivity of it.

im pretty sure that it will be a forum war and factions will spam report each other so they get demotions to their ic enemies and this happened at azteca and triads period as i remember.

lets be real, imagine an active faction that have 30 members and not making punishment twice a month even if they have a good roleplay standard, its kinda impossible.

Okay we say that leaders kicked friends that making rulebreaks but what about the new recruits ? How the responsible people gonna know if they will fail or not even if they have good rp and high experience on the server?

we know that everyone can make mistakes at some points and no one is unmistakable.

my suggestion is to increase the number of rulebreaks but also you need to make monthly events and getting more roleplay creativity etc…

im not saying that factions can do rulebreaks without punishment but 2 is a small number for a gang that have 30 members.

[Quietthecutie]

6 minutes ago, sakkama said:

Okay we say that leaders kicked friends that making rulebreaks but what about the new recruits ? How the responsible people gonna know if they will fail or not even if they have good rp and high experience on the server?

Theres your problem right there. this idea that you need to make sure your gang is running 30 deep at all times. and the need to throw new recruits in right away regardless of vetting them, simply because yous are not 30/30.

If you lose members, and you have no one suitable and trustworthy to replace them, then you shouldnt replace them. you should be more patient in your recruitment process and be sure before you hit that add button.

over time, this will increase the quality of your org until youre getting way fewer reports than you used to.

Now, is 2 reports a month the right number? i dont know. but i certainly do know that i respect the concept of holding crim orgs more accountable for their actions. and rewarding gangs for actually following the rules, roleplaying, and not just clapping.

Edited July 7, 2024 by Quietthecutie

[Marksy]

I'm going to throw in my ten cents as a tenured criminal faction leader, and I don't expect much agreeance due to the things I've read in this thread so far. 

With the old FM system it would take anywhere from 5-10 months for your faction to be recognised and approved for "Official Status" everyone seems so blinded by the fact for example a .50 pistol is a tier 5 item and will take months of work to obtain, it's no different to how it was previously except now factions will get much earlier access to vital tools such as the F4 menu, a treasury, ability to stamp their name on a turf and in the time it would take to get official previously now the constraints are more open and you'll be drip fed the ability to import certain things until you reach that level, before you would've gotten nothing until you got it all in more than that timeframe. 

I see a lot about the rulebreaks etc and I'm struggling to see why people are having a problem with being held accountable for their actions, I'm also seeing a lot of people already finger pointing and saying gangs are going to petty report eachother to get other gangs demoted, it's not going to be as black and white as that, I'm sure the reports that result in a demotion will not be the petty natured ones, it's even mentioned in the tier list post as part of the behaviours not wanting to be seen.

• Participating in extensive, unwarranted, and unnecessary reporting with the aim of getting an opposing party in trouble for minor reasons.

ECRP is first and foremost a roleplay server and over the years unfortunately a lot have lost sight of that, crim has not been about the roleplay for a long time no matter how anyone tries to sugar coat it. It's been rolling labs, PvP mentality, clap montages, using the most meta weapons and strategies to win fights, baiting fights for the thrill seeking, this is the mentality that needs to go, it's about time a system of accountability was brought in for all to adhere by. 

[alexalex303]

I do think that the punishment rule was needed because we do have some people that tend to be the same group of people overlooking each others mistakes and/or bad behavior for years now. On one hand you want to stay close to your friends, but you also want an exceptional faction tier; perhaps a choice is expected. Rulebreakers should be something that all official factions look to reform, instead of tolerate.

Edited July 7, 2024 by alexalex303

[Saint_]

There’s been some very good points brought up by bakmeel and other members of the community throughout this thread, The tier system itself is a great way to kick start offical faster.  As Bakmeel clarified that the punishments would have leeway I think there is less concern in that regard. I think the bigger concern is factions freaking out about not being able to break rules, Of course everyone will catch a punishment from time to time playing crim but that’s just how it is. I think this will then in turn stop gangs from recruiting monkeys with a gun and instead think slightly more about who they recruit.

[Dola]

Dont get me wrong, its a good update, It's been a long time coming, I just feel like it needs some tweaking perhaps. Also I was wrongly informed by staff yesterday right before the tier system announcement that all gangs including current official gangs was going to be tier 1, starting from scratch but if what Bakmeel is saying is true and some gangs will be higher tier and are able to order specific guns from the get go then it might not be as bad as I thought. We going to see what happends from Saturday when it begins and how it unfolds I just hope staff listen to the community if tweaking needs to be done. 

[HobGoblin]

I think people should wait and see the new changes with imports for a bit before saying you need "x/y/z". Maybe you find another gun that is decent that replaces the pistol .50 meta.

[Harveyyy]

I agree with @MrSilky!

[Eliza]

I mean this in the most respectful way, if you're that stressed over your members getting punishments, perhaps you should reconsider your faction members that represent what your faction strives for or teach them to be better.

Edited July 7, 2024 by DontSniffSugar

[surg3yy]

7 hours ago, Homast said:

Literal Skill Issue. Many crims kill cops on the regular with single mags.

Ask Vangaurd, Ask Irish, Ask Lost MC, They regularly do it. You know why?  Because their members have all spent time improving their clapping ability on DM servers, They can aim and they know how to position.

Next gunfight we're in, i'm gunna watch you and see if you run into the middle of the area and call you out on it if you don't think that's the case.
 

No, what it does is ensure that newer players aren't all flocking to single gangs. It also gives incentives to players being more protective and selective with their recruitment. Recruiting for numbers has and always will be whack, and now there's incentive to promote quality members instead of players who don't know anything.

Newer players should use their first weeks to be learning the rules before they make ANY desicion as to whether or not they should go Legal or Crim, and certainly should be making a name for themselves if they want to be joining already highly recognized and highly respected gangs.

The Cartel doesn't wanna ICly work with someone who recruits George Smith 19m from Birmingham who gets put in the slammer every weekend for drunk driving. Why would they want you to promote that kind of standard on an OOC level?

 

Tragic right?

7 hours ago, Homast said:

Literal Skill Issue. Many crims kill cops on the regular with single mags.

Ask Vangaurd, Ask Irish, Ask Lost MC, They regularly do it. You know why?  Because their members have all spent time improving their clapping ability on DM servers, They can aim and they know how to position.

Next gunfight we're in, i'm gunna watch you and see if you run into the middle of the area and call you out on it if you don't think that's the case.
 

No, what it does is ensure that newer players aren't all flocking to single gangs. It also gives incentives to players being more protective and selective with their recruitment. Recruiting for numbers has and always will be whack, and now there's incentive to promote quality members instead of players who don't know anything.

Newer players should use their first weeks to be learning the rules before they make ANY desicion as to whether or not they should go Legal or Crim, and certainly should be making a name for themselves if they want to be joining already highly recognized and highly respected gangs.

The Cartel doesn't wanna ICly work with someone who recruits George Smith 19m from Birmingham who gets put in the slammer every weekend for drunk driving. Why would they want you to promote that kind of standard on an OOC level?

 

Tragic right?

I cba to respond to all of this so ima just point out the obvious one the leader of Irish made this post so “ask Irish is kinda ironic” most the active ppl from vanguard have +1 the post and lost barley ever fight and that’s ok so asking them really is irrelevant. I don’t really just care about the gun and beating pd im just saying that taking away the only thing crims can use for a fighting chance while every crim repeatedly says the same thing over and over again. 
tbh this is a good change for a server but not in this state of ecrp this is something that should of came years ago. Now you accept the same 100 players who been playing for years to change there game play fully to adapt to something that makes it 20 times harder to progress.

as a staff member if your leading argument to the response to the many points in these reactions is “skill issue” it shows that lack of care for one side of the community.

lock in dog 

[surg3yy]

14 minutes ago, DontSniffSugar said:

I mean this in the most respectful way, if you're that stressed over your members getting punishments, perhaps you should reconsider your faction members that represent what your faction strives for or teach them to be better.

So you have never broke a rule? Be so for real hun