FS 2.0 Tier System?

[Dola]

I'm going to try to keep this as respectful as possible...

I've spoken with many high commands of other gangs, and there's widespread outrage over the new tier system. This update might have been acceptable a few years ago, but it's too late in the server's life cycle for such a change.

Even if winning gangs go straight to tier 2, it will still take a minimum of 3 months before any gang can order a .50 caliber gun. With 30 days required for promotion, it means at least 7-8 months before anyone can reach tier 9. 

The rule of 30 days with no more than 2 punishments might work for a small gang of 10 members, but it's impractical for larger gangs like Rooks, Lost MC, OTF, ESM, Irish, etc. In larger gangs, we all have a few close friends who occasionally get punished. To rank up in the tiers, we’ll be forced to choose between staying with our friends and never ranking up or kicking them out to climb the tier system. 

Moreover, having to reach tier 2 just to order SNS pistols and tier 3 for revolvers feels quite limiting and impractical. Nobody wants to use/order these pistols. Unfortunately .50 is meta and the preferable gun to use. Because of this I dont see the desire for tier 2 or tier 3. These tiers should provide access to more desirable and useful weapons. Having to reach tier 5 to be able to order anything desirable is demotivating. 

As a faction leader, the amount of unnecessary stress this will add to try to keep 30 members in check at all times 24/7 in order for all our time, energy and progress not to be ruined is just crazy.

Negative Effects:
Player Frustration: The strict requirements and slow progression could lead to player frustration, demotivation, and gangs disbanding quicker, which could potentially lower the player base count.
Impact on Large Factions: Larger factions may struggle under these rules, as managing a bigger group increases the likelihood of rulebreaks and makes it harder to meet the strict promotion criteria.

Suggestions for Improvement:
Promotion Criteria Adjustments: Adjusting the criteria to focus more on in-game activity and positive contributions rather than strict rule adherence could foster a more engaging and less disciplinary environment. We all know there's going to be gangs reporting eachother so they demote them in tiers.
Balanced Rewards: Providing more balanced and incremental rewards at each tier could help keep factions motivated and reduce frustration.
Clearer Guidelines and Transparency: Ensuring that guidelines for what constitutes "poor RP standards" and "poor OOC attitude" are clear and consistently applied can help reduce bias and unfair demotions.

FS 2.0 was supposed to revive crim, this current update ain't it... but IT STILL COULD BE.

EDIT: I was told right before the announcement by staff that all gangs, including current official gangs, will be set to tier 1 so I thought nobody would be able to order decent guns for a minimum of 4 months (if done perfectly) but I was informed, after this suggestion, that that is not the case and current official gangs will be given higher tiers. So gun issue is not my problem anymore it's more the punishment for a faction set to no more than 2 punishments which is quite difficult for larger factions.

Edited July 8, 2024 by Dola

[Cal]

I agree.

FM 2.0 looks good overall in my opinion. However, the tier system that just came out isn't what I expected. 

It shouldn't take a faction to get to tier 5 (minimum of 3/4 months) to be able to import a .50. Unfortunately, everyone on the server uses a .50 as their usual pistol, so to make gangs wait that long just to be able to import them is too far imo. Crims don't want to import SNS pistols, heavy pistols etc. Ordering from only a very few selected gangs just for a .50 seems is way too much.

As well as this, it takes a minimum 5/6 months to import heavies for a gang. Look at a gang like Shadows, who have been around for nearly a year, and now have to probably wait a minimum half a year to order a heavy which just doesn't make sense.

Finally, lore specific guns makes sense. But what does that truly mean? Certain gangs can get better guns instead of others? E.g gang A imports a .50 and gang B imports an SNS pistol? If that's the case, gang B would just lose in any fight.

[Roy Denny]

+1

[Jokl]

+1

[AvoidTheWaiting]

Waiting months to get decent weapons like the .50 is a huge disappointment. For big gangs like Rooks, Lost MC, OTF, and Irish,  having a rule that only allows two punishments in 30 days is almost impossible. We all have friends who occasionally get in trouble, and choosing between sticking with them or ranking up is unfair. For faction leaders, trying to keep 30 members in line all the time is tough. It will cause a lot of frustration and might even lead to gangs breaking up faster or causing people not to " Risk " making a honest mistake that might hinder their gang or group. Which isn’t good for the player base and or motivation to hop online. I think this is a good start and I believe criticism is needed to fix certain things to make it a enjoyable experience for crimes on the server.  Lets build on what you guys have and make it better and move forward.

Edited July 7, 2024 by AvoidTheWaiting

[SaltyPoiosn]

+1

[Kayden96]

+1

 

[Rosalia Hall]

+1

[Mortem]

+1

[Homast]

Get good with something that isn't a .50.

Don't rely on your heavies. Show off your "skill" for once.


Larger gangs have larger command teams which should be able to reasonably keep their members in line. If you can't do that, Useless command shouldn't be command. Finally you actually need to pick and choose who's going to be good for the faction's health instead of just having radio freqs where you call each other slurs all day!

[revancc]

+1 I think having the guns/items staying at their respective tiers is a good thing, however the 30 day requirement for gangs to progress one tier is counter intuitive. I believe if a group shows FM that they can provide good crim rp and not basic shit, why not promote them earlier? Overall FM 2.0 is incredible and definitely an upgrade, but I do believe promoting gangs based on their attitudes and performances should be looked into.

[TheGrinch]

I agree. FS 2.0 was supposed to be the light at the end of the tunnel, but after talking with everyone, there's a shared sense of disappointment, mostly, if not entirely with the tier system. I thought the main goal of FS 2.0 was to encourage the creation of new factions and close the gap between unofficial and official factions. But honestly, I don't see how this tier system achieves any of that. Adding more hurdles doesn't seem to help.

It doesn’t seem fun or engaging at all. Instead, it feels like owning a faction will become a chore. You’d have to constantly monitor your 20-30 members, and if even one of them breaks a rule, it threatens your ability to order a .50, the meta-weapon. The .50 meta isn’t going to change; no one is going to switch to heavy pistols or combat pistols. This tier system just seems to increase stress for both faction leaders and members.

+1

Edited July 7, 2024 by TheGrinch

[Saint_]

The new tier system itself isn't bad, before it took around 6 months to become official and now it will take 1-2 months. With the gun tiers however I do believe .50s should be in the first few tiers, then different types of heavy's and AP unlocked throughout the progression, as that is how FM has set it up. However the key issue is the punishments causing demotion, If it was even worded differently as to "if a factions members consistently break rules" it would be fine. However with the 2-4 Punishments to drop a tier, There is no world in the current ECRP community where this wont cause increased reports against factions. If Gang A doesn't like Gang B they will simply report everything they can and likely drop even the high standard factions multiple tiers. The second large issue from this will be the recruitment of newer players to the server, With this now greatly increased risk with tier demotion I feel gangs will be EXTREMLY hesitant to bring in unexperienced players, causing the crim scene to be even more gate kept and harder to reach for new players.

TLDR: FS 2.0 Tiers are good, .50s Should be early tiers, Punishments shouldn't be limited to 2-4 and instead if a faction shows consistent rule breaks.

[moVex]

+1

[quixotic]

Very huge +1 on this,

Changing the ways of importing weapons is way too late in this server's cycle. GTA 6 is gonna drop next in 2025 (hopefully) and who knows if ECRP will even be alive then. 

Mind you with this update these still haven’t changed;

- This update has empowered PD/SD even more (when they actually need to be nerfed), with weapons that criminals can't even get until Tier 5 now. A DS1/PO2 can get a Pump and .50, which takes about a 2-3 weeks, quicker than a whole group of 30 players can with 5 months of effort (if they pass their Tier check every 30 days).
- The criminal community still needs to adhere to factions that want "cartel-like" treatment, even when it doesn't match their lore, due to their "control" of labs.
- And this is especially going to discourage players from getting into conflict with each other with the current punishment implementations on the new Tier System.

Again, change is good for the server and this will be refreshing for the community, however I think there still can be more changes made with this new FM system that could be more than just Imports/Rewards/Turfs/More unneeded restrictions on roleplay. I genuinely appreciate the Faction Management Team (and I'm sure more than just the 3 members of Faction Management took apart of the change in FM 2.0) for collaborating on this update, thank you.

Edited July 7, 2024 by checkky

[Demonmit1]

I think this change is really interesting. This is clearly a heavy handed way to force a culture change within the crim RP on the server, and will be interesting to see how it plays out in the long run. I think if it does go positively, it will be incredible for the server.

Forcing factions to have OOC repercussions if their leadership and members are breaking rules is really interesting. Its a system that will promote good RP situations and punish clapper/PVP mentality that almost always leads to rulebreaks. If you want to progress, you should prioritize maintaining quality players that will properly RP and don't have a win over everything mentality. It will also force players to more carefully consider their actions and how quick they resort to violence rather than finding another RP way to handle it rather than a shootout.

The discussion about .50 being harder to obtain now is interesting. I think complaining that the meta gun in the server is being nerfed is kinda silly, there’s a reason why EVERYONE uses it, and this kind of nerf to the .50 seems reasonable.

[surg3yy]

+1 I don’t understand how you make a new crim update revamp official change the whole side of crim rp and not add one thing crims will like this update was needed but was excused wrong made becoming official easier but way way less rewarding. Server pop is low pd are bored crims are bored just listen to the community work on what they ask for and everyone will be happy. We fumbling rn for no reason 

[Dola]

21 minutes ago, Demonmit1 said:

I think this change is really interesting. This is clearly a heavy handed way to force a culture change within the crim RP on the server, and will be interesting to see how it plays out in the long run. I think if it does go positively, it will be incredible for the server.

Forcing factions to have OOC repercussions if their leadership and members are breaking rules is really interesting. Its a system that will promote good RP situations and punish clapper/PVP mentality that almost always leads to rulebreaks. If you want to progress, you should prioritize maintaining quality players that will properly RP and don't have a win over everything mentality. It will also force players to more carefully consider their actions and how quick they resort to violence rather than finding another RP way to handle it rather than a shootout.

The discussion about .50 being harder to obtain now is interesting. I think complaining that the meta gun in the server is being nerfed is kinda silly, there’s a reason why EVERYONE uses it, and this kind of nerf to the .50 seems reasonable.

This is criminal suggestions. If you dont main crim your points are, respectfully, invalid. I would love to see an actual crim disagree with my points. This server is constantly putting out the bait with these update leaks and we fall for it, and when they finally get released after years its nothing but dissappointment. When is the community ever going to be listened to is my question?

[surg3yy]

2 hours ago, Homast said:

Get good with something that isn't a .50.

Don't rely on your heavies. Show off your "skill" for once.


Larger gangs have larger command teams which should be able to reasonably keep their members in line. If you can't do that, Useless command shouldn't be command. Finally you actually need to pick and choose who's going to be good for the faction's health instead of just having radio freqs where you call each other slurs all day!

1 skill doesn't win against shit that’s so unrealistically unfair you except crims to win against pd worh “skill” when a ak can’t even kill a cop with a full mag td you think a hp will do 

2. Punishments rule is dumb you recruit 2 new people to try and help advance crim rp with newer members those 2 go to a lab alone and break a rule that they didn’t understand now the 30 man gang gets punished and is more likely to not add newer people in the future in fear that they will be punished. The new “crim update” has only push crims away from the server and has taken away the want and desire of getting offical.

3. We can’t even say slurs man wtf!!!

[surg3yy]

29 minutes ago, Demonmit1 said:

I think this change is really interesting. This is clearly a heavy handed way to force a culture change within the crim RP on the server, and will be interesting to see how it plays out in the long run. I think if it does go positively, it will be incredible for the server.

Forcing factions to have OOC repercussions if their leadership and members are breaking rules is really interesting. Its a system that will promote good RP situations and punish clapper/PVP mentality that almost always leads to rulebreaks. If you want to progress, you should prioritize maintaining quality players that will properly RP and don't have a win over everything mentality. It will also force players to more carefully consider their actions and how quick they resort to violence rather than finding another RP way to handle it rather than a shootout.

The discussion about .50 being harder to obtain now is interesting. I think complaining that the meta gun in the server is being nerfed is kinda silly, there’s a reason why EVERYONE uses it, and this kind of nerf to the .50 seems reasonable.

 Ima simplify what you said 

“This is really good for non crims PvP is bad and having good guns takes away from rp” 

If you want to remove meta guns from crims remove meta cars ap guns helis and … from pd why has it been a one way street for years. When will we get thrown a bone.

[Demonmit1]

11 minutes ago, Dola said:

If you dont main crim your points are, respectfully, invalid.

My crim is a fair bit over 150k xp, whether i main my crim or not doesn't make a difference. 

My main has succeeded in taking down more government officials than any other gang in remotely recent times.

Just because I dont roll labs day in and day out, that doesnt discredit my opinion on the topic... lol

Edited July 7, 2024 by Demonmit1

[surg3yy]

Actually I got a simple take.

you can’t force “culture change” it has to come naturally from changes people agree with. Like I hate to sound like a ass on repeat but who signed this off we have been waiting for new fm for a brick now and it comes out and not one gang hc member outside of like 2 members of staff who helped shape this actually like/ agree with it . I love that ecrp is trying to change for the better but please when you ask for the community suggestions take those suggestions don’t get our hopes up for nun 

[Demonmit1]

53 minutes ago, Joaquin Guzman said:

I don't really understand the frustration around the "Meta Gun' as it's used in literally every aspect of the game. Everyone uses this gun

Yeah, that's just how meta guns work. You change this one, and a new one will fill its place. Its meta because of how good it is for the price, its a really efficient weapon to use. I see a lot of this as a crim vs crim focused change, and I totally agree that LEO factions are OP well beyond than they need to be. Having the .50 so high up in tiers is an interesting place to put it, and I can see both sides. .50 is what people are used to and what they like, and losing easy access to it is frustrating. But, its not like its being removed or its damage nerfed, its just not going to be as common, and the people that will have access to it have more or less proven themselves with quality RP that they can handle having such an efficient weapon in a reasonable manner.

53 minutes ago, Joaquin Guzman said:

a SNS pistol which is going to take 20 bullets in order to kill a person with 100 AP. It's just very demoralizing and flawed.

Regarding SNS vs 100AP, a tier 2 faction probably should not be attempting to go head to head in a gunfight with their tier of weapons against a tier 7 faction. When its crim vs PD, then yeah, PD has always been OP, and should be looked at on how to balance, but should still regularly have the upper hand as its a government funded and trained faction.

47 minutes ago, surg3yy said:

skill doesn't win against shit that’s so unrealistically unfair you except crims to win against pd

Crims aren't typically supposed to win against PD. if Crims win against PD, PD fucked up and did something wrong. Crims should be managing interactions and evading, not outgunning LEO in every situation. 

35 minutes ago, surg3yy said:

you can’t force “culture change” it has to come naturally from changes people agree with.

agreed. Thats why I said that, the way there is now hard OOC rules to follow for gangs or else they will lose tiers, is FM attempting to force a culture change. If it ends up working out, its better for the server overall. if it doesnt work out, we'll see an exodus of long standing groups and players that didn't want to conform to the new rules.

Edited July 7, 2024 by Demonmit1

[Quietthecutie]

I think its not unreasonable that established gangs with a reputation and have been around for a while should start higher on the tiers in 2.0.

The punishment system I have mixed feelings on. on one hand, I can see why it would make larger gangs nervous, and i think tier punishments should be on a case by case basis, instead of just a flat 2 punishments in a period of time = demotion. on the other hand, it would force RP standards to be raised, or you lose tiers. no more people eating punishments for the sake of a W.

[Sigma]

+1 

Think it definitely needs to be considered that as a result of these changes, it’s going to be a much longer process for a faction to progress towards the higher tiers. Taking upwards of 7 months or so to gain access to heavies and .50 is way over extended. The smaller gangs will most likely just be bullied time and time again because they have no power to retaliate with other than an sns pistol. This will just lead to factions being easily demotivated as conflict is often unavoidable in many scenarios so it’s not like they can just run away and all will be fine - They are gonna end up fighting, losing assets which, as unfortunate as it is, will just become continuously demotivating because losing interaction after interaction isn’t a way to enjoy the server. 

 

Most factions now have many experienced players within them which i’m sure don’t have issues obtaining a .50 l, however the point is here that the newer factions which should be assisted in trying to progress within the server are just being shot down by the fact it’s going to take months to even dream of importing a .50 for themselves.

Reaistically, it’s way too late in the server to be pretty much changing the “norm” of the population. The .50 is just the standard weapon for EVERYONE - not just crims (LEO, GOV, Civ etc). And for the heavy weapons, with there being so many experienced crims still around, there is bound to be heavy weapons at almost every interaction. If you’re put up against a heavy and someone with AP, i doubt you’re going to be walking away from that.