Change the current license suspension system

[Bala]

2 hours ago, Demonmit1 said:

I think the core of the problem is police are allowed to hold your personal property for 24 IRL hours after you've already been punished and served the time for the crimes your character commited. tacking on OOC punishments of 24 hours (24 years in game?) while also having to likely wait another 30 minutes to hours for an officer to grace you with their presence at the impound lot just seems a bit overblown.

keep the license suspension, but players should be allowed to withdraw their personal vehicles from impound, like they get their personal belongings back after serving their time in DOC. Obviously this would have to be some sort of IC change with how police handle returning personal belongings and vehicles, but the current state of how things work, just flat out denying returning your personal vehicle and possessions seems wrong.

Police can set up some sort of system that as long as the person has someone else available to drive the vehicle, they can return the vehicle to its owner from impound. idk. its gotta be worked out. but the current system doesnt make sense within RP and only serves as an OOC punishment that has nothing to do with your character or RP in general.

Doesn't make no sense to have your car released when you can't drive it. You know exactly what that'll lead to. 

You can't say it don't make sense when license suspensions and bans from driving exist IRL for vehicle offences a lot more lenient than the ones people commit in Eclipse.

[Demonmit1]

18 minutes ago, Bala said:

Doesn't make no sense to have your car released when you can't drive it. You know exactly what that'll lead to. 

You can't say it don't make sense when license suspensions and bans from driving exist IRL for vehicle offences a lot more lenient than the ones people commit in Eclipse.

doesnt make no sense for cops to put your personal belongings into your car and then impound it over a 20 minute sentence, as a way to screw you over and prevent you from having your basic clothing and stuff for 24 hours OOC either. just forces you to not be allowed to play your character. 

if people want to risk driving on a suspended license, go for it. that happens in real life too, people get caught for it often. it gives police more reason to initiate a traffic stop and have interaction with random players. If their name comes up on the plate as a suspended license, they get pulled over to see if they're the ones driving it or not. if my character just spent 2 years in prison, why do they have to wait an equivalent 24 years to get their personal belongings back? again, its an OOC punishment for something that your character in RP has already paid the fine and time for.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Demonmit1

[Harveyyy]

4 hours ago, Bala said:

Maybe you don't see why it's an issue but if we swing the other way with the consequences, people do stupid shit and even getting caught comes with little consequence. 

I don't know why anyone would care about what somebody else does, stupid or not, they choose their own playstyle at the end of the day. I don't think we should dictate how a player must play on the server. In terms of consequences, they are still there. I'm not saying remove the license suspension, no, keep it. The length of it shouldn't be a concern for LEOs. (3-6 hours) or 1 hour after getting released from DOC is my proposal. I don't understand why the punishment has to be so severe.

[Quietthecutie]

Again, i think as much as we try to stay on the side of realism, we also need to concede that this is a videogame.

1 hour ago, Demonmit1 said:

doesnt make no sense for cops to put your personal belongings into your car and then impound it over a 20 minute sentence, as a way to screw you over and prevent you from having your basic clothing and stuff for 24 hours OOC either. just forces you to not be allowed to play your character. 

if people want to risk driving on a suspended license, go for it. that happens in real life too, people get caught for it often. it gives police more reason to initiate a traffic stop and have interaction with random players. If their name comes up on the plate as a suspended license, they get pulled over to see if they're the ones driving it or not. if my character just spent 2 years in prison, why do they have to wait an equivalent 24 years to get their personal belongings back? again, its an OOC punishment for something that your character in RP has already paid the fine and time for.

agreed. again, not contesting that license suspension should be a thing, but either the duration of the charge should be lowered or the frequency of it being applied. having a license suspended for almost any crime for what is rply 24 years is not good, neither is this being tacked on to basically every criminal op. one or both of these needs to be looked at.

[Bala]

41 minutes ago, Harveyyy said:

I don't know why anyone would care about what somebody else does, stupid or not, they choose their own playstyle at the end of the day. I don't think we should dictate how a player must play on the server. In terms of consequences, they are still there. I'm not saying remove the license suspension, no, keep it. The length of it shouldn't be a concern for LEOs. (3-6 hours) or 1 hour after getting released from DOC is my proposal. I don't understand why the punishment has to be so severe.

I know this is a wild thought but considering the big picture here, our player base needs a certain amount of restrictions because there are too many individuals incapable of controlling themselves and putting logical decision making ahead of getting their own entertainment. 

This is a server that has enforced unnecessary upon it's law enforcement, taking away some of the enjoyment of the game. Having to fanny about with storing evidence and writing out arrest reports to justify a legal system that always seem to have something flawed with it. But, now in addition to you only getting a capped amount of time which impacts the Department of Corrections faction as well as investigative roleplay, you want to get out and go straight back to doing what you did before you went in like it ain't no thing, so then we end up chasing the same person in the same vehicle doing the same thing ad nauseum which then impacts our factions.

Someone drives like a moron, gets three demerits on their license and it gets suspended but then they get it back three or six hours later? What you think they are going to do when it ain't really no thing to get caught? To quote Steely Dan, they'll go back, jack, and do it again.

We reduced it from 48 hours to 24 hours to be kind, didn't have to, wasn't forced on us but we did. The prison time has been capped. You good now, don't be getting greedy. 

[Zudren]

57 minutes ago, Harveyyy said:

I don't know why anyone would care about what somebody else does, stupid or not, they choose their own playstyle at the end of the day. I don't think we should dictate how a player must play on the server. In terms of consequences, they are still there. I'm not saying remove the license suspension, no, keep it. The length of it shouldn't be a concern for LEOs. (3-6 hours) or 1 hour after getting released from DOC is my proposal. I don't understand why the punishment has to be so severe.

Think this sums it up pretty well. The length of suspension currently makes crim difficult to play and if I just spent 4 years in jail I would expect to be able to drive when I got out. 

Maybe find a way to add a mechanic to where you have to go retake your driving exams since you have been locked up for so long to just add an extra step. 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Zudren

[Jett_J]

Just have the license get removed completely every time so you have to retake the driver's test every time That way you don't have to wait 24 hours and there is still IC "punishment".

[Quietthecutie]

13 minutes ago, Jett_J said:

Just have the license get removed completely every time so you have to retake the driver's test every time That way you don't have to wait 24 hours and there is still IC "punishment".

unbelieveably im kinda down with this. its an actual IC punishment, insted of just hitting a "sorry, you have reached your alloted amount of fun for tonight, please insert 50 cents" situation. and seeing as drivers Ed courses are a real thing in the criminal justice system it kinda fits.

 

22 minutes ago, Bala said:

This is a server that has enforced unnecessary upon it's law enforcement, taking away some of the enjoyment of the game. Having to fanny about with storing evidence and writing out arrest reports to justify a legal system that always seem to have something flawed with it. 

speaking purely as this is a game:

as an LEO, Part of the tradeoff with being able to get into chases/shootouts with sophisticated weaponry and vehicles with no personal risk attached is the fact you have to do paperwork/cleanup. not to mention you are paid for your trouble win or lose. this is opposed to criminals who do not have to do paperwork or cleanup however when they lose, they lose assets, they lose hard, and they are not guaranteed a paycheck. both sides have downsides and neither will ever be truly happy. that does not mean we shouldnt be open minded when it comes to keeping the balance of the game reasonable.

[Zudren]

9 minutes ago, Quietthecutie said:

speaking purely as this is a game:

as an LEO, Part of the tradeoff with being able to get into chases/shootouts with sophisticated weaponry and vehicles with no personal risk attached is the fact you have to do paperwork/cleanup. not to mention you are paid for your trouble win or lose. this is opposed to criminals who do not have to do paperwork or cleanup however when they lose, they lose assets, they lose hard, and they are not guaranteed a paycheck. both sides have downsides and neither will ever be truly happy. that does not mean we shouldnt be open minded when it comes to keeping the balance of the game reasonable.

Preach

[Oli]

21 minutes ago, Bala said:

I know this is a wild thought but considering the big picture here, our player base needs a certain amount of restrictions because there are too many individuals incapable of controlling themselves and putting logical decision making ahead of getting their own entertainment. 

Remind me how would that be any of your business? They cant control themselves, they get arrested and jailed. Why they do it and how they do it shouldn't bother you the least, if you think their decision making isn't realistic, report it.
 

23 minutes ago, Bala said:

This is a server that has enforced unnecessary upon it's law enforcement, taking away some of the enjoyment of the game. Having to fanny about with storing evidence and writing out arrest reports to justify a legal system that always seem to have something flawed with it. But, now in addition to you only getting a capped amount of time which impacts the Department of Corrections faction as well as investigative roleplay, you want to get out and go straight back to doing what you did before you went in like it ain't no thing, so then we end up chasing the same person in the same vehicle doing the same thing ad nauseum which then impacts our factions.

There's actually no way you claim the server is sided against law enforcement.

 

25 minutes ago, Bala said:

Someone drives like a moron, gets three demerits on their license and it gets suspended but then they get it back three or six hours later? What you think they are going to do when it ain't really no thing to get caught? To quote Steely Dan, they'll go back, jack, and do it again.

Again, none of your business what they're going to do.

 

26 minutes ago, Bala said:

The prison time has been capped. You good now, don't be getting greedy. 

Should I repeat it a third time?

[Pegasus_]

5 hours ago, CalvinKlein said:

technically, this is Grand Theft Auto RP.

Technically, this is all IC.

[Oli]

I don't get why LEO players feel the need to argue about any and everything that involves crims, and to no one's surprise they're always against it.

You literally lose nothing, not 1 single bit of anything. Yet you still wanna come here and yap about crims repeating the same thing they got arrested for, what else are they supposed to do? All criminal activities require a vehicle, and as you're in a vehicle, you're always at risk of getting pulled over, evading and going to jail.

License suspensions hinder criminal roleplay. People would just prefer logging off for the day rather than be a burden on their friends asking them to go there, go there, do that and once they have to go off, you just look for another friend to be a burden on. 

[illin]

2 minutes ago, Oli said:

I don't get why LEO players feel the need to argue about any and everything that involves crims, and to no one's surprise they're always against it.

You literally lose nothing, not 1 single bit of anything. Yet you still wanna come here and yap about crims repeating the same thing they got arrested for, what else are they supposed to do? All criminal activities require a vehicle, and as you're in a vehicle, you're always at risk of getting pulled over, evading and going to jail.

License suspensions hinder criminal roleplay. People would just prefer logging off for the day rather than be a burden on their friends asking them to go there, go there, do that and once they have to go off, you just look for another friend to be a burden on. 

This is literally so true

[Quietthecutie]

11 minutes ago, Pegasus_ said:

Technically, this is all IC.

its not tho, 

Some of these very reasonable arguments cannot be made ICly as they are quite unreasonable from a realistic standpoint. as per previous comments, IRL people would lose their license indefinitely for certain offenses. This does not work however, within a videogame. therefore, its not just an IC issue.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Quietthecutie

[Quietthecutie]

.

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Quietthecutie

[illin]

1 hour ago, Bala said:

This is a server that has enforced unnecessary upon it's law enforcement, taking away some of the enjoyment of the game. Having to fanny about with storing evidence and writing out arrest reports to justify a legal system that always seem to have something flawed with it.

How does having to take time to store evidence and write out paperwork "take some enjoyment out of the game" that is literally what LEO factions are supposed to do? 

You just want to store it in the back of your cruiser and delete it at MRPD then on to the next situation??

[Smoke1]

+1 this is a great idea.. there needs to be limits.. loosing your license because someone evaded and you were a passenger isn't right. 

[CalvinKlein]

18 hours ago, CalvinKlein said:

Open to more Ideas, and suggestions, so if you have something positive to contribute go for it..
If you're one of the people who suspend licenses, and never deal with its' consequences as you don't engage in criminal RP, please do not come here making dismissive comments, and if you have ideas on how to improve the system, please go ahead.

I repeat ^ I repeat ^

This thread was not posted for the purpose of those people stirring arguments by being dismissive and claiming nah nah it’s good it’s fair we suspend ur license for 24 hours, be happy it’s not 48., which FYI, on my many years on the server (when it was 48) I think I’ve had only 1 suspension with 50 imprisonments because it was under discretion / no one wanted to do it / if you’re cool / show good RP, you kept it ….

It was rather posted for criminal role players to discuss an issue that directly affects them and their RP; doesn’t affect any LEOs, and for the people who want to give their suggestions to improve the system / people capable of making such decisions on the server to analyze and adjust as there’s clearly an issue with it, you may not see it when you’re handing out those to every reckless op driver or evader, but the others do, so please just don’t involve yourself in that case. 
 

 

Now as a LEO, you’re forced to suspend licenses for probably 90% of ur common everyday charges or you’re “corrupt” and can get suspended yourself.. so I’d rather it be 48 days again and rarely see it happen like I did in 2020 than have it to 24 hours but get one with every arrest, for all my passengers, it became standard procedure.. it never was, so the claim that “be happy we reduced it from 48 to 24” kinda means nothing because you’ve increased the frequency but reduced the magnitude. 

[Reesy]

Personally , I agree 24 hours is to long and I think that isn’t should be lowered to a little less time. I also think they should remove license suspension stacking as currently my license is suspended for a whole week which is a long time to wait for just my license back. There could be other thing like having to re take your test again too but I think the 24 hours is a bit long 

[Harveyyy]

5 hours ago, Jett_J said:

Just have the license get removed completely every time so you have to retake the driver's test every time That way you don't have to wait 24 hours and there is still IC "punishment".

That's actually a good idea. +1 

[Marcusandrew31]

6 hours ago, Jett_J said:

Just have the license get removed completely every time so you have to retake the driver's test every time That way you don't have to wait 24 hours and there is still IC "punishment".

Actually agree +1

 

[moment]

@Bala

You need to realize one thing, people with their vehicle license suspended are mostly either staying AFKing or just not logging in until they get their license back this decreases player interaction. In this instance if you decrease the amount of time of the suspension, they will get their license back therefore more player interaction in this case from PD side as well.

Not to mention the amount of waiting time to get your vehicle out once you get our license back is unnecessary, which adds more to that time of the suspension.

Edited November 28, 2023 by moment

[GoldieShort]

8 hours ago, Jett_J said:

Just have the license get removed completely every time so you have to retake the driver's test every time That way you don't have to wait 24 hours and there is still IC "punishment".

+1
Itd still be frustrating enough to feel like a punishment.
Having your license suspended for multiple days with all vehicles in impound (Which tends to happen as a crim) is very unmotivating at times.

Would be cool if it was a seperate test from the very first one, like slightly shorter but costing like 2k or something instead of the initial.

[WakeUpFilthy]

8 hours ago, Jett_J said:

Just have the license get removed completely every time so you have to retake the driver's test every time That way you don't have to wait 24 hours and there is still IC "punishment".

Kinda wild but +1

[Requiem]

All of the comments being made saying LEO's input is "dismissive" or unneeded because they are not impacted is untrue and not positive to discussion. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion; doesn't mean you have to like it or agree. 

Criminal jail time or license suspensions do in fact effect LEOs. The criminal activity that occurs on the server has a direct correlation to LEOs RP opps and response. In the same way that if we increased license suspension time to 4 OOC days, LEOs would likely sit around with nothing to do because there would be no criminal activity occurring, if the license suspension time was decreased to say 4 hours, then there would be a sharp increase in criminal activity as crims can get their cars back sooner, evade more often, etc. While you might say that this would be good for LEOs (in some ways it might be), it can also be negative. If license suspensions were dropped to a degree that LEOs were in pursuits non-stop for hours, number one it would get tiring and boring as hell, and number two it would decrease availability of police to do other tasks such as responding to 911 calls or, god forbid, respond to the impound. 

If the argument being made is "it has no impact on LEO and there is 0 downside to reducing the license suspension time", then why not just remove license suspensions all together? Why not get rid of prison altogether? Why even have LEO's? Let criminals just do what they want and have 0 consequence to their actions. Then they get to have 24/7 uptime with no OOC wait time. Hopefully you see where I am going with this. There needs to be a middle ground between the two. There has to be some consequence to criminals being caught. If you really want to perform criminal activities 24/7 with no consequence, I would recommend GTA online as a good solution. 

As I mentioned previously though, this is an IC suggestion. The reason I say that is, yes, the discussion includes OOC elements and has some OOC impact on players, but the same way that laws and jail time gets changes for your charges by the IC Government, license suspensions and suspension time is defined by the IC government. The only way you will see change here is to bring the suggestion IC.