Separate internal Investigation faction for LSPD and SPD.

[Bronnen]

So in most places, Internal affairs are technically part of the police, but do not answer to the police. They are not detectives, or patrol officers, or lawyers. They are officers employed specifically for the purpose of investigating police officers.
Right now, internal affairs is kind of a joke. They arrest no one, press no charges, fire no one, or even bring charges to the prosecutors. Proper internal Affairs would report directly to the head of the division, who would report directly to either JB, or since there is now an inspector General, directly to them.

We could simply just make a new division within the government, or JB, and actually give them power to investigate cops. With how many accusations there are of corruption among the police and all that, this would be a pretty awesome way to adding extra RP.

 

[SquirtleSquad]

19 hours ago, Bronnen said:

So in most places, Internal affairs are technically part of the police, but do not answer to the police. They are not detectives, or patrol officers, or lawyers. They are officers employed specifically for the purpose of investigating police officers.
Right now, internal affairs is kind of a joke. They arrest no one, press no charges, fire no one, or even bring charges to the prosecutors. Proper internal Affairs would report directly to the head of the division, who would report directly to either JB, or since there is now an inspector General, directly to them.

We could simply just make a new division within the government, or JB, and actually give them power to investigate cops. With how many accusations there are of corruption among the police and all that, this would be a pretty awesome way to adding extra RP.

This is something that would have to be pursued first. Maybe get some insight on how IA in PD/SD works as well. I can tell you that the basis of these claims are inaccurate. Punishments are handed out based on the conclusion of IA reports.

[Victor Einhart]

I'm not against the idea, but I'm not sure having an entire faction founded on paperwork is the kind of thrilling gameplay people are looking for.

21 hours ago, Bronnen said:

They arrest no one, press no charges, fire no one, or even bring charges to the prosecutors.

Are you sure about that?

[Bronnen]

I will admit I can only go based on what I've seen. I dunno, I just think it would be great to have like a civilian oversight committee or Inspector General that the IA answers to, instead of just the higher ups in PD.

[Requiem]

On 8/26/2023 at 1:44 PM, Bronnen said:

So in most places, Internal affairs are technically part of the police, but do not answer to the police. They are not detectives, or patrol officers, or lawyers. They are officers employed specifically for the purpose of investigating police officers.
Right now, internal affairs is kind of a joke. They arrest no one, press no charges, fire no one, or even bring charges to the prosecutors. Proper internal Affairs would report directly to the head of the division, who would report directly to either JB, or since there is now an inspector General, directly to them.

We could simply just make a new division within the government, or JB, and actually give them power to investigate cops. With how many accusations there are of corruption among the police and all that, this would be a pretty awesome way to adding extra RP.

 

Being a part of IA myself as a more tenured investigator, I can tell you that the job is taken very seriously with no bias and punishments/discipline is most certainly handed out. The faction actually released statistics to the public regarding IA cases on how many are sustained vs no misconduct, but that can be found IC. 

[Bala]

LSPD's Internal Affairs is lead by someone with over four years law enforcement experience on Eclipse and is also a senior administrator.
Before that, it was lead by the person currently running the faction who themselves has over law enforcement experience on Eclipse.

They are overseen by a head administrator with over five years law enforcement experience on Eclipse, was the faction leader since 2020 until recently and that person, I mean to be fair, they're overseen by Lewis but still. 

Frankly, there is no more qualified people in the community than those three individuals to access this situation. I know we'd like to think that because the Judicial Branch is the law faction and they are independent of PD that they automatically the foremost authority and experts but give me Kris, Pazz and Silky overseeing that any day.

[Cyrus Raven]

45 minutes ago, Bala said:

LSPD's Internal Affairs is lead by someone with over four years law enforcement experience on Eclipse and is also a senior administrator.
Before that, it was lead by the person currently running the faction who themselves has over law enforcement experience on Eclipse.

They are overseen by a head administrator with over five years law enforcement experience on Eclipse, was the faction leader since 2020 until recently and that person, I mean to be fair, they're overseen by Lewis but still. 

Frankly, there is no more qualified people in the community than those three individuals to access this situation. I know we'd like to think that because the Judicial Branch is the law faction and they are independent of PD that they automatically the foremost authority and experts but give me Kris, Pazz and Silky overseeing that any day.

RP experience in any position means exactly 0 if you're not basing your actions on your IRL counterparts, thus the ''role'' in roleplay.

[Bala]

16 minutes ago, Cyrus Raven said:

RP experience in any position means exactly 0 if you're not basing your actions on your IRL counterparts, thus the ''role'' in roleplay.

Take it easy there Johnnie Cochran.
Things like basing actions on IRL counterparts means exactly 0 if you're forgetting the sort of player base you have, playing what is only a game, thus the "play" in roleplay.

You need people that are experienced in law enforcement from doing it for a lengthy period of time, not just people that watch a couple episodes of Law and Order and do a Google Search. 

In Eclipse, what it boils down to, for most players is, if system benefit me, system good. If system no benefit me, system bad.

[XxTheIrishGuyxX]

If nobody said it yet, fine I'll be that guy. This is an IC suggestion. Feel free to bring this up in game to the proper channel. 

Suggestions are for the devs to look at and implement if they feel necessary. The devs don't handle IA. 

On 8/26/2023 at 1:44 PM, Bronnen said:

They arrest no one, press no charges, fire no one, or even bring charges to the prosecutors.
 

 

[Pazz]

On 8/26/2023 at 7:44 PM, Bronnen said:

Right now, internal affairs is kind of a joke. They arrest no one, press no charges, fire no one, or even bring charges to the prosecutors.

On 8/26/2023 at 7:44 PM, Bronnen said:

They are not detectives, or patrol officers, or lawyers. They are officers employed specifically for the purpose of investigating police officers.

The Internal Affairs Divisions of both the LSPD and LSSD have arrested people, pressed charges, fired Officers, and taken various other actions, such as reprimands, suspensions, and demotions. The allegation that none of these things have happened is factually incorrect and, I assume, is based on nothing but personal experiences and subsequently made assumptions.

Since realism was brought up, San Andreas is supposed to be California, and Los Santos is supposed to be Los Angeles. In that same vein, the Los Santos Police Department and the Los Santos County Sheriff's Department portray the Los Angeles Police Department and the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department respectively. In these "places" and agencies, internal affairs most certainly are not Officers employed with Internal Affairs in mind. They were beat cops and became Detectives. Now they're Internal Affairs. So, yes, they are Detectives.

Internal Affairs of any faction answers firstly to its appointed Commanding Officer. Depending on the faction hierarchy, it is possible that this CO then answers to their Bureau/Area CO or Office Director, who then answers to the faction leader. Commonly, it goes straight from IA CO to faction leader. The faction leader then answers to the Governors. Governors are Head Administrators. Lewis is also head of legal faction management. Meaning, IA answers to the faction leader and (the leader of) legal faction management.

I see no harm in suggestions on establishing things like the Inspector General into the existing structure should there be a necessity for it, but I think that if you want to throw around such allegations based on nothing but assumptions to achieve it, you might be missing the mark and it is best to take a step back and educate yourself on how these parts of the government factions actually operate.

45 minutes ago, Cyrus Raven said:

RP experience in any position means exactly 0 if you're not basing your actions on your IRL counterparts, thus the ''role'' in roleplay.

It is easy to throw this around, but I'm certain that if I were to put out a guide and announcement to the LSPD en masse on how to base their actions true to their IRL counterparts, not a single person would be happy as a result of this "realism", a term thrown around far too frequently only when it is beneficial to the person making the argument. Roleplay experience in positions means more than zero, regardless of basing actions on real-life counterparts. One of the most important factors of moving a faction forward is realistic portrayal while ensuring what you're trying to portray also fits into the game environment and community you're trying to push it to. 

The LSPD, from a leadership perspective, strives to provide a realistic portrayal and in doing so maintains structure based entirely on its real-life counterparts, while making minor changes allowing it to be suitable for the game environment that exists today. Policies are based on accessible LAPD documents and material, with changes made allowing for it to be suitable in today's game environment. Blindly basing everything on real-life counterparts is counteractive on a server where it is expected that law enforcement operates as realistically as possible with civilian oversight, the Inspector General, probably a mayor electing the Chief if it were up to people, but it is also encouraged to be a seventeen-times convicted cop killer dancing on the hood of a police vehicle.

I respect your take even if I disagree with it, particularly because I personally value true portrayal, but it is easy to try and discredit roleplay experience in positions, which is necessary to steer something in a direction suitable for both the server and a roleplay environment in general, on a forum thread. It is not so easy to find the balance between realism, and gamification for the current server environment, while also keeping players, faction members, and faction management happy. You'll want someone with roleplay experience on your server specifically for that, regardless of whether they want to accurately portray the LAPD or the UK's metropolitan police in a US-setting roleplay server. Blindly throwing a realism or portrayal blanket on factions without considering their suitability and place within the server is not the way to go. 

5 minutes ago, XxTheIrishGuyxX said:

If nobody said it yet, fine I'll be that guy. This is an IC suggestion. Feel free to bring this up in game to the proper channel. 

I concur with this. Not because I don't think these discussions have no place, but because at the end of the day, this is something that can be discussed on the main forums as a suggestion, sure, but I think it will get more serious consideration from relevant parties, such as server management who act as the head(s) of state if it is pursued as an in-character suggestion. 

[Cyrus Raven]

1 hour ago, Bala said:

In Eclipse, what it boils down to, for most players is, if system benefit me, system good. If system no benefit me, system bad.

At least we agree on this.

25 minutes ago, Pazz said:

It is easy to throw this around, but I'm certain that if I were to put out a guide and announcement to the LSPD en masse on how to base their actions true to their IRL counterparts, not a single person would be happy as a result of this "realism", a term thrown around far too frequently only when it is beneficial to the person making the argument. Roleplay experience in positions means more than zero, regardless of basing actions on real-life counterparts. One of the most important factors of moving a faction forward is realistic portrayal while ensuring what you're trying to portray also fits into the game environment and community you're trying to push it to. 

The LSPD, from a leadership perspective, strives to provide a realistic portrayal and in doing so maintains structure based entirely on its real-life counterparts, while making minor changes allowing it to be suitable for the game environment that exists today. Policies are based on accessible LAPD documents and material, with changes made allowing for it to be suitable in today's game environment. Blindly basing everything on real-life counterparts is counteractive on a server where it is expected that law enforcement operates as realistically as possible with civilian oversight, the Inspector General, probably a mayor electing the Chief if it were up to people, but it is also encouraged to be a seventeen-times convicted cop killer dancing on the hood of a police vehicle.

I respect your take even if I disagree with it, particularly because I personally value true portrayal, but it is easy to try and discredit roleplay experience in positions, which is necessary to steer something in a direction suitable for both the server and a roleplay environment in general, on a forum thread. It is not so easy to find the balance between realism, and gamification for the current server environment, while also keeping players, faction members, and faction management happy. You'll want someone with roleplay experience on your server specifically for that, regardless of whether they want to accurately portray the LAPD or the UK's metropolitan police in a US-setting roleplay server. Blindly throwing a realism or portrayal blanket on factions without considering their suitability and place within the server is not the way to go.

I don't think we disagree, my broader point is that actions taken should be based on IRL counterparts, there is always a balance to reach between IRL and a game, while I would personally prefer a focus on slightly more serious/hardcore RP, I understand that's something only a handful of people want versus the other hundreds who are ok with a more medium-light RP environment.

None the less, there is room even in a light-medium RP server to achieve this balance. If you're a Detective, it's probably a good idea to read some basic interrogation tactics used by IRL Detectives as many do. If you're an Attorney it's probably a good idea to know the difference between reasonable suspicion and probable cause. If you're an EMT it's cool to be able to show Medical RP that reflects basic known treatments IRL. (small simple stuff you can google in 20 seconds like knowing how to secure a bone fracture).

[Pazz]

1 minute ago, Cyrus Raven said:

my broader point is that actions taken should be based on IRL counterparts, there is always a balance to reach between IRL and a game, while I would personally prefer a focus on slightly more serious/hardcore RP, I understand that's something only a handful of people want versus the other hundreds who are ok with a more medium-light RP environment.

None the less, there is room even in a light-medium RP server to achieve this balance. If you're a Detective, it's probably a good idea to read some basic interrogation tactics used by IRL Detectives as many do. If you're an Attorney it's probably a good idea to know the difference between reasonable suspicion and probable cause. If you're an EMT it's cool to be able to show Medical RP that reflects basic known treatments IRL. (small simple stuff you can google in 20 seconds like knowing how to secure a bone fracture).

Fair enough. I agree with that. It came across as a bit dismissive of roleplay experience in a position which I personally strongly feel is also a must with regard to taking on a position of leadership or oversight re. this topic, but in general, yeah, no, I agree.

[Bronnen]

I didn't mean to seem dismissive of PD or IA either. But if you feel like going through it IC would make more sense then that will be what I shall do!

[TheCactus]

On 8/26/2023 at 7:44 PM, Bronnen said:

So in most places, Internal affairs are technically part of the police, but do not answer to the police. They are not detectives, or patrol officers, or lawyers. They are officers employed specifically for the purpose of investigating police officers.
Right now, internal affairs is kind of a joke. They arrest no one, press no charges, fire no one, or even bring charges to the prosecutors. Proper internal Affairs would report directly to the head of the division, who would report directly to either JB, or since there is now an inspector General, directly to them.

We could simply just make a new division within the government, or JB, and actually give them power to investigate cops. With how many accusations there are of corruption among the police and all that, this would be a pretty awesome way to adding extra RP.

 

Maybe if you actually looked at the amount of people that got suspended, discharged or arrested after IA investigations (or simply police investigations), you'd come to the conculsiom that you're talking shit.

 

It also seems very IC to me. An idea that can push the actions of your character in a certain direction.

Edited August 28, 2023 by TheCactus

[CalvinKlein]

To many statements made above I’d say in many cases the punishments received are something like a short suspension when irl the LEO would be fired , sued , criminally charged., we currently have no civil court system so if you were to lose x amount of money in items , x hours in jail , x amount in fines, and file an IA report if concluded in your favor most punishments do not come close to the loss suffered, or the frustration so I do believe a separate non biased entity would on the overall serve nothing but a positive outcome towards the fairness and everyone on the server.

[Pazz]

7 minutes ago, CalvinKlein said:

To many statements made above I’d say in many cases the punishments received are something like a short suspension when irl the LEO would be fired , sued , criminally charged., we currently have no civil court system so if you were to lose x amount of money in items , x hours in jail , x amount in fines, and file an IA report if concluded in your favor most punishments do not come close to the loss suffered, or the frustration so I do believe a separate non biased entity would on the overall serve nothing but a positive outcome towards the fairness and everyone on the server.

A "short" suspension is typically still longer than the average sentence served for murdering an officer or another player, as well as further crimes. If such realistic penalties were to be imposed, then it needs to be a two-way street, not a burden on a specific group of roleplayers. If LEOs should be getting fired when they realistically would as opposed to a commonly issued 24-48 hour suspension, then there have to be consequences of the same severity across the board.

You cannot reasonably place such "realism" expectations on a specific group and not on others. Admittedly, imprisonment isn't very exciting, but for argument's sake, it is restrictive in the sense that it restricts roleplay from acting as a criminal all around the map to between four walls and further financial loss through citations (though, with the laundry, I'm not so sure about that). In that same vein, a 24-48 hour suspension from LEO factions restricts them from roleplaying their character in the sense of an LEO, translating to further loss of monetary income through salary. Compare these two timeframes to each other, and there's a significant discrepancy in expectations and consequences. Not to mention the fact that if someone were to be a hardened murderer, for argument's sake, capital murder, it makes no difference to the consequences whether or not they've been doing it consistently for a day, a week, or two years, but then there's the expectation to fire someone who has spent a year, two years, to get to the position they are. These consequences don't quite seem to be on par with each other.

A non-biased third-party entity being implemented and them taking a heavier stance on firing an LEO would not eliminate that discrepancy, regardless of who it is ruled in favor of, it will only create further imbalance. I don't see the increase in "fairness" of removing people from factions because it is considered to be a more appropriate response that is on par with a 5-hour prison sentence and $40,000 in fines. Unless, of course, it is a completely in-character removal and they can simply return on another character. After all, it wouldn't be fair to have to throw away 2 years of work, that wouldn't be positive for the fairness on the server, right?

[CalvinKlein]

2 hours ago, Pazz said:

A "short" suspension is typically still longer than the average sentence served for murdering an officer or another player, as well as further crimes. If such realistic penalties were to be imposed, then it needs to be a two-way street, not a burden on a specific group of roleplayers. If LEOs should be getting fired when they realistically would as opposed to a commonly issued 24-48 hour suspension, then there have to be consequences of the same severity across the board.

You cannot reasonably place such "realism" expectations on a specific group and not on others. Admittedly, imprisonment isn't very exciting, but for argument's sake, it is restrictive in the sense that it restricts roleplay from acting as a criminal all around the map to between four walls and further financial loss through citations (though, with the laundry, I'm not so sure about that). In that same vein, a 24-48 hour suspension from LEO factions restricts them from roleplaying their character in the sense of an LEO, translating to further loss of monetary income through salary. Compare these two timeframes to each other, and there's a significant discrepancy in expectations and consequences. Not to mention the fact that if someone were to be a hardened murderer, for argument's sake, capital murder, it makes no difference to the consequences whether or not they've been doing it consistently for a day, a week, or two years, but then there's the expectation to fire someone who has spent a year, two years, to get to the position they are. These consequences don't quite seem to be on par with each other.

A non-biased third-party entity being implemented and them taking a heavier stance on firing an LEO would not eliminate that discrepancy, regardless of who it is ruled in favor of, it will only create further imbalance. I don't see the increase in "fairness" of removing people from factions because it is considered to be a more appropriate response that is on par with a 5-hour prison sentence and $40,000 in fines. Unless, of course, it is a completely in-character removal and they can simply return on another character. After all, it wouldn't be fair to have to throw away 2 years of work, that wouldn't be positive for the fairness on the server, right?

Criminals already have ic consequences, when you are “lowkey” and get a legal job a small crime can get you fired I don’t see why it should be any different, and I don’t see why it’s bad to ask for a strong stance and enforcement on rules, your instinct was to instantly jump at “criminals - two way street - etc etc” we are talking about IC stuff, and ICLY the one given more power has more room to act improper with it, when you have infinite free guns, armor, ammo, backup (no faction limit etc) and you have better script support , and the authority to force your RP upon anyone , whatever way you like, as a criminal the max you could do to someone is rob them , or kill then if DM escalation occurred, so I fail to understand how you are comparing the power a LEO has to one of a criminal, specially when it’s so much easier for a player to join PD than to join a high tier gang., My comment was suggestive and my idea was intended to improve fairness, yet I don’t know why you got so defensive instantly defending PD, and going at criminals in a very non constructive non productive manner, I have seen many players go on PD with the same mentality as a criminal (in terms of gameplay not the RP itself);  (with just doing the minimal adherence possible to the expected LEO RP , policies, some who are still in PD) and I have seen cops who genuinely enjoy being a law enforcement character and role playing it accordingly., the same way you have criminals who want to just clap and criminals who enjoy the roleplay., no one here is making it a crim vs PD., as we know how one sided and useless that conversation is at this point (I’m here since 2019) 

 

The suggestion was an unbiased party making sure everything is dealt with fairly specially when there isn’t many rules in place to prevent certain things (for example there was a time where charging someone as a cop without IDing them irrefutably would be deemed nonrp, now it’s an IC issue) 

 

You also mention two way street etc, as a criminal to rob someone you need to adhere to certain OOC rules, despite the robbery being IC, the consequences being IC, the risk and reward being SUBJECTIVE and also IC however those are all things regulated by OOC means.

 

And a main difference is, you as a LEO are expected to have a more strict set of rule set and the discipline to adhere to it, but as a criminal you’re an outlaw doing whatever you want as long as it’s within ooc rules , and you get rewarded and punished accordingly, as for “throwing 2 years of hard work isn’t fair” 

if someone is in that position as is abusing their powers then they shouldn’t be there in the first place specially if it’s someone with a big “win mentality” and not quality of RP, a non biased entity would accomplish exactly this:-

Punishments that are fair and on par with the violation, the more power you have the more responsibility you have.

 

 

p.s I’m an advocate and enjoyer for Law enforcement RP with a former 1XXX PD badge , just saying it for context in case you think I’m someone without knowledge of LEAs and how they operate internally and externally, so I have probably seen more than you from both criminals and LEAs given my long presence with both through many years.

Edited August 31, 2023 by CalvinKlein

[Victor Einhart]

Who are these people abusing their powers?

[CalvinKlein]

32 minutes ago, Victor Einhart said:

Who are these people abusing their powers?

I could name drop given you’ve straight up asked me who, but I prefer not to bash someone over here publicly., so I can provide you with POV when I am back from my travels (I wanted to file both an IC and OOC IA report regarding the situation) however I needed to travel on the same day (for 3 weeks) meaning I can not IA report given there’s a 1 week limit ., in the situation I will show you there was 0 attempt to properly conduct the RP, sexual remarks were continuously being made inside mission row, the “investigative RP” was nothing but a pre-set sentence that I was brought in solely to not just have the charges placed directly (given I was masked and got away) to avoid a report and say “yeah we did investigate” I know and respect you Victor, and you are a prime example of the people I’d like to see more of in PD, and I doubt you’ll find the situation nothing but ubsurd however I still doubt anything will be done..

Even the person from JB who was there was actually shocked at how ubsurd the situation was, and how I basically didn’t walk into an investigation but into an inevitable arrest that couldn’t have been done without making it seem like there was an investigation, around the days Cynthia Shelby was there, she left an amazing impression on how investigative RP goes, how lawyers work, and how with only circumstancial evidence the whole purpose of the investigation (which could last longer than the initial sentence) is high quality RP ,. And if I was to slip up, it would’ve been on me. 
 

Again to avoid the rant here, I could get in contact with you via discord and share all my recordings.

 

this is only the recent scenario.

 

There is currently someone high ranked in PD who was banned for cheating (as PD) jailing people for 7+ hours before the prison cap with the help of hacks for chasing and shooting them, while as a LEO, when you die you technically lose nothing , if you lose someone at a chase you also lose nothing (it’s just that someone gets away with wtv they’ve done)

If that is not purely play to win, I’m not sure what is, given this person got themselves banned to win situations with 0 potential loss.

 

we both know who I’m talking about.

Edited August 31, 2023 by CalvinKlein

[Freyster]

(written from phone, so formatting n spelling may be off)

 

First and foremost, I believe creating a separate faction solely focused on addressing issues within a faction seems unreasonable. There are already enough punishments being given on a daily basis, and if there are any legitimate issues, whether they are IC or OOc, they will be addressed. I understand where this frustration is coming from. When I first started playing, I only played as a criminal character and found myself sitting in jail for hours without any stamps, questioning what to do next.

This made me quite upset with the people OOCLY despising them for wjo they were. However, after playing non-criminal roleplay for over a year and switching back and forth between the two, I have noticed many things that are not visible to those who have only experienced one side.

I firmly believe that if people who primarily play as criminals were able to see the law enforcement side and deal with the daily challenges we face, they would understand the difficulties we encounter. While I agree that prison times could be shorter, I disagree with the idea that there is no proper handling of wrongdoing and attempts to manipulate situations for personal gain. People often judge others based on brief interactions when they are arrested, and due to the grind mentality I used to have with my criminal character, where every loss felt very painful, it's understandable that this would lead to frustration. However, it is important to address this issue as a whole rather than dismissing the Internal Affairs department as useless and assuming that officers or players in that case are not being punished just because they are not kicked out of the faction. People do find out when they make mistakes and appropriate action is taken, although it may not always be obvious to everyone.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Freyster

[CalvinKlein]

13 minutes ago, Freyster said:

(written from phone, so formatting n spelling may be off)

 

First and foremost, I believe creating a separate faction solely focused on addressing issues within a faction seems unreasonable. There are already enough punishments being given on a daily basis, and if there are any legitimate issues, whether they are IC or OOc, they will be addressed. I understand where this frustration is coming from. When I first started playing, I only played as a criminal character and found myself sitting in jail for hours without any stamps, questioning what to do next.

This made me quite upset with the people OOCLY despising them for wjo they were. However, after playing non-criminal roleplay for over a year and switching back and forth between the two, I have noticed many things that are not visible to those who have only experienced one side.

I firmly believe that if people who primarily play as criminals were able to see the law enforcement side and deal with the daily challenges we face, they would understand the difficulties we encounter. While I agree that prison times could be shorter, I disagree with the idea that there is no proper handling of wrongdoing and attempts to manipulate situations for personal gain. People often judge others based on brief interactions when they are arrested, and due to the grind mentality I used to have with my criminal character, where every loss felt very painful, it's understandable that this would lead to frustration. However, it is important to address this issue as a whole rather than dismissing the Internal Affairs department as useless and assuming that officers or players in that case are not being punished just because they are not kicked out of the faction. People do find out when they make mistakes and appropriate action is taken, although it may not always be obvious to everyone.

I agree with you under some cases, but disagree under other cases; I’m not sure if you’ve read - referring to my comment but personally I’ve joined PD as early as 2018 I believe if not before with my badge number being 1XXX , and I’ve been part of multiple official factions since 2019 , also playing between both crim and LEO, and both simultaneously and I think the issue is certain radical and vocal members who manage to play a certain way while making it seem like it’s all by the book and in the process taint PD’s image for the opposing perspectives, and have that attitude spread around the lower / newer members, as someone with my experience I tell you I agree to an extent because there’s times where a crim goes like “how’d they find me, that’s unfair , bla bla” when for example there’s a trace on their phone, or heli above, things like that are what you’re referring to as “what crims don’t see” however all my comments were in reference to a completely different thing and mostly comes from crims who want to win but and not just RP and lose till they eventually decide to play on the opposite side and somewhat seem to have “fueled revenge” villain arcs which can’t be explained IC

Edited August 31, 2023 by CalvinKlein

[Bala]

The shortest answer to why this is a -1 that I can give is that anyone in the community that has the know how, experience and proper judgement to do something like this and not have it end up like another fucking shit show are already in the these factions to begin with. I don't count myself as one of them people either.

Not enough good quality, consistent role-players that are not otherwise in other factions and doing other shit to make something like this work and we don't need another faction shoehorned in that doesn't work as intended.

[Freyster]

10 minutes ago, CalvinKlein said:

I agree with you under some cases, but disagree under other cases; I’m not sure if you’ve read - referring to my comment but personally I’ve joined PD as early as 2018 I believe if not before with my badge number being 1XXX , and I’ve been part of multiple official factions since 2019 , also playing between both crim and LEO, and both simultaneously and I think the issue is certain radical and vocal members who manage to play a certain way while making it seem like it’s all by the book, as someone with my experience I tell you I agree to an extent because there’s times where a crim goes like “how’d they find me, that’s unfair , bla bla” when for example there’s a trace on their phone, or heli above, things like that are what you’re referring to as “what crims don’t see” however all my comments were in reference to a completely different thing and mostly comes from crims who want to win but and not just RP and lose till they eventually decide to play on the opposite side and somewhat seem to have “fueled revenge” villain arcs which can’t be explained IC

If you have concrete evidence of this occurrence and someone deliberately trying to spoil the fun for others, it would be wise to approach the person for a discussion or gather evidence to report them. Not only is it about the specific incidents you mentioned, but also the fact that playing as a criminal character can significantly alter people's perception of situations. While I trust your account, it is important to note that the LSPD faction has made significant progress since 2018, which you are comparing your experiences to. I do acknowledge that this is your perspective, but I strongly believe that those who are adamantly against the police department based solely on their own arrest experiences should spend a month playing as an officer to truly understand the dynamics. In your case, if you feel targeted, treated unfairly, or believe someone is intentionally trying to ruin your gameplay, it is crucial to gather evidence and report the incident to LFM , the forums, or go as far as informing the faction leadership, but from what my personal experience brings, we all are playing a game and our characters, we all play different ways of LEO and we all deal with situations and suspects differently, i hope that whatever makes you feel the way can pass by finding a solution for yourself, this will be my last words to this as i have basically stated everything i think about all this.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Freyster
grammar error

[CalvinKlein]

45 minutes ago, Freyster said:

If you have concrete evidence of this occurrence and someone deliberately trying to spoil the fun for others, it would be wise to approach the person for a discussion or gather evidence to report them. Not only is it about the specific incidents you mentioned, but also the fact that playing as a criminal character can significantly alter people's perception of situations. While I trust your account, it is important to note that the LSPD faction has made significant progress since 2018, which you are comparing your experiences to. I do acknowledge that this is your perspective, but I strongly believe that those who are adamantly against the police department based solely on their own arrest experiences should spend a month playing as an officer to truly understand the dynamics. In your case, if you feel targeted, treated unfairly, or believe someone is intentionally trying to ruin your gameplay, it is crucial to gather evidence and report the incident to LFM , the forums, or go as far as informing the faction leadership, but from what my personal experience brings, we all are playing a game and our characters, we all play different ways of LEO and we all deal with situations and suspects differently, i hope that whatever makes you feel the way can pass by finding a solution for yourself, this will be my last words to this as i have basically stated everything i think about all this.

That person was banned then unbanned and reinstated into PD with their brother still banned..

 

I will be making an OOC IA report when I am back, 

 

also I did play as an a LEO for multiple months , it changed my perspectives in many positive ways , but also many negative ways when witnessing certain things internally, and I wasn’t talking about 2018 as the entire server did change since then, that was my first PD employment, I’ve had more recent ones.

it may seem like it’s based on one situation but it isn’t, some people with “play to win mentality” have it contagious; when a cadet or PO I sees higher ranks act a certain way they pick it up, and the good role players within the faction (LEA) get treated unfairly because players tend to expect their behavior to match that of others’ which creates a cycle of mutual reactions… to me being arrested is no different than a random house alarm trigger in terms of a (shit happens, it is what it is) I just think there needs to be a level of cracking down on members with P2W mentality (worse than clap mentality imo) and maybe a higher standard to join and more RP tests [it’s currently mostly verbal] (5000xp is nothing) for a high tier - all powerful faction , when high tier gangs require usually 50,000-75,000 xp which accounts for more learning , more humbling (you take L’s and you learn and adapt and it becomes a natural part of your game) in the end of the day I want every person’s experience on the server to be the best it could possibly be 

Edited August 31, 2023 by CalvinKlein

[Clank]

We need to take LSPD and move their jurisdiction to Cayo Perico and have them based there. Then have Los Santos patrolled by the citizens as a well regulated militia. SD can stay in the county (they kinda mid).