Time Served Or Some Sort Of Alternative To Increase RP With LEO or MD

[XeV]

I Have made a post like this before. It seems like to me there is a Lack of willingness to RP with Police as once you are charged that time is stagnant until you get to DOC and are /jailed or prisoned. Making the mindset be "get to DOC as fast as possible" to get the time started to be done with it.

Now depending on what the scenario is VARIES HEAVILY. Like I have been apart of shootouts were I get injured and am sitting on scene for 30-45 minutes sometimes RARELY its a hour doing /ldo, roleplaying GSR, and CCTV footage/ saving POV and uploading.

It just seems like because your times never moves from its original spot until jailed or prisoned it makes you wanna just speed up stuff as fast as possible to get the sentence done. If there was ANY change in that to any degree. Like I RP with police for a fat amount of time cause I want to and they knock off even 15-30 minutes. It would create more instances to actually RP on scene with MD and PD or SD instead of just /me gsw to my arm, /do it would help /me able.

[HobGoblin]

This could work but the /prison and /jail commands would need to be changed to allow LEO to type in the time that needs to be served.
 

I think maybe adding a new command to reduce someones jail time while they are inside jail would work better and would be easier to implement. 

[Harveyyy]

I think it would be a great idea to reward people who provide good RP with time reduction. As you mentioned above, it sucks to spend 30-45 minutes sitting in a cruiser waiting for charges to be placed, or responding to /Ldos. Yes it's RP, but who am I kidding here, it's not fun, especially if it happens too often, or you get arrested almost everyday for IC reasons such as gang suppression. Some people may argue it's not supposed to be fun, but again, for the millionth time, this is a game and people wanna have some fun, not stare at their monitor for 30+ minutes. If someone sits in a cruiser for that long just to respond to /Ldos or whatever, they should get time reduction as an "OOC" reward. Of course this will require script development as it would be an OOC thing, ICly this doesn't make any sense.

[Pazz]

I do not often involve myself in topics regarding law enforcement and time served because I think we all know how those topics turn out, but I would like to come forth and say that LSPD (and by extension, LSSD) has had a note on our development requests for at least 2-3 years now, if not longer, requesting that the /jail and /prison commands be amended to allow a time reduction based on percentage, with the requested percentage being up to 30%. When you consider how high times can go and the scalability of such a percentage relative to those times, that could be a rather significant chunk of time cut off someone's otherwise rather lengthy sentence.

That is to say that we have been looking at ideas like these and different avenues to compromise, notwithstanding charging methods, because frankly, contrary to popular belief, we're not as player- and fun-hating as we're made out to be and we have been pushing for smaller changes like these that impact the time spent in jail and prison significantly, we just have not received any developer support or acknowledgement of these requests at all in the last many years.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Pazz

[AJ2toke]

This discusion can also tie along with the "Policy of adding every charge and length of prison times" discusion. Its a great Idea to reward deep rp with reduced prison times. Would be really cool to see something like it implimented

45 minutes ago, Pazz said:

I do not often involve myself in topics regarding law enforcement and time served because I think we all know how those topics turn out

How does it turn out? 

[XeV]

I just feel as though a small change as being able to type in the time even if just 10-15minutes off, would impact people as to not being so salty right off the rip and instead engage in some RP like your supposed to do. 9 out of 10 reports on LEO have the same line of "and because of this I spent 3-4 hours in jail on top of it".

It is weird to bring up "REWARD" people for doing RP when you should just be doing that regardless, but its true there needs to be something if even minor to make it worth it, cause in the current state I see 0 reason to really RP fully and creatively with MD and PD or SD inside the scenario of being arrested and prisoned.  

[Bala]

That's it in a nutshell though, people don't see a need to put effort in unless it benefits them to do so. You're not wrong for saying what you've said because it's something that happens across crim, cop and every other area of the community. What that tells me is that subconsciously, a lot of our players want the speedy resolution and to move onto the next situation. 

I don't know sometimes why we fight that because that mentality isn't going anywhere, so why not lean into it?

Personally, I'd love to give people who go above and beyond with their RP time off but it's not that simple, particularly now. You have JB who will want to account for every charge you make if a case comes through them. You will also have the natural bias of some cops wanting to do that and others not. Some people will have differing ideas as to what good RP is. Some will do it for their friends on alts but not their enemies.

That's what it was like before.

The vibe I get from being on the other side of crim is that the time you get in prison is fine, as long as you got stuff to do. The prison updates helped shift how prison is viewed now some what and that's great for crims/doc. Prison should be an IC punishment but shouldn't be an OOC one. Maybe there's more work to be done there but it's a start.

It's the fines that go with it that seem to irk people because you're kind of railroaded into criminal systems to make money but it so often leads to getting caught that your progress gets wiped and in some cases, you lose a lot more than you gain.

That's where I'd look personally, not at the times or what charges people get but at the fines.

[XeV]

9 minutes ago, Bala said:

That's it in a nutshell though, people don't see a need to put effort in unless it benefits them to do so. You're not wrong for saying what you've said because it's something that happens across crim, cop and every other area of the community. What that tells me is that subconsciously, a lot of our players want the speedy resolution and to move onto the next situation. 

I don't know sometimes why we fight that because that mentality isn't going anywhere, so why not lean into it?

Personally, I'd love to give people who go above and beyond with their RP time off but it's not that simple, particularly now. You have JB who will want to account for every charge you make if a case comes through them. You will also have the natural bias of some cops wanting to do that and others not. Some people will have differing ideas as to what good RP is. Some will do it for their friends on alts but not their enemies.

That's what it was like before.

The vibe I get from being on the other side of crim is that the time you get in prison is fine, as long as you got stuff to do. The prison updates helped shift how prison is viewed now some what and that's great for crims/doc. Prison should be an IC punishment but shouldn't be an OOC one. Maybe there's more work to be done there but it's a start.

It's the fines that go with it that seem to irk people because you're kind of railroaded into criminal systems to make money but it so often leads to getting caught that your progress gets wiped and in some cases, you lose a lot more than you gain.

That's where I'd look personally, not at the times or what charges people get but at the fines.

W reply, with the additions added to DOC I find it at least in my shoes at a point I WANT to go to jail thus causing me to be more aggressive in my crimes and such, that laundry and litter shit pays your fines in a matter of no time (especially if you a night shift player like me when there is no one at DOC). 

To me its the TIME not the fines, It just comes down to I have very limited playtime Monday-Friday with IRL work and other responsibilities so at most I am able to get 2-4 Hours a day to play. Now at least before when I was still an ACTIVE crim doing banks and stores and all those shenanigans I ran the risk of losing a full day of play everytime I did it. Some days I said fuck it some days I was like "nah ill be a scout/lookout guys" because of the time I would be looking to get. I just missed out on things because the times are just so long given the right circumstances.

ALSO you said it perfectly "cop alts just gonna give their friends time off just cause and not for their enemies" I WOULD like it to be monitored in a way but then thats putting another responsibility on someone who probably already has a lot already and I feel bad.

At least for me I do not mind the fines its whatever, give me something to grind for when I get out to make back X amount of money. But those times sometimes KILL ME if I am  in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I want prolonged scenarios, I want to have story's to tell and make posts about, I wanna sit there with the PD and MD doing extensive good RP for a long period of time RP with detectives as well to help them with storys and character building. Just do not enjoy my 3 hour sentence forever gonna be a stagnant 3 hours till I am at DOC and Changed into my jumpsuit.

[Ash]

31 minutes ago, Bala said:

That's it in a nutshell though, people don't see a need to put effort in unless it benefits them to do so.

This tbh.

Another issue is if this theoretical thing was implemented people get angry or salty that someone else from a different faction (generally that they consider the enemy, ooc half the time) is judging their RP. I'd take even more ways of reducing time within the prison itself, like making the stamp:time ratio better.

Offering time off as an incentive seems good on paper but I can imagine a fair few issues come with it working the ways mentioned above.

Don't bribe people to do better RP, instead make them feel a bit less crappy about being in prison in the first place and the RP will flow from that. The changes so far have done a pretty good job at that and going further with it would improve that. 

I'm not even going to talk much about MD RP because I'm gonna be honest with you guys, most of the time I've seen something beyond "/do broken leg" is when someone wants to stall to bleed out and generate continuous wounds that don't stop bleeding, I think a lot more effort needs to be given from the criminal side in this regard. (A simple "/me would require surgery for X" would prompt an AMU response if that's available and can be fun RP if someone actually cared about RPing something more serious)

[XeV]

50 minutes ago, Ash said:

This tbh.

Another issue is if this theoretical thing was implemented people get angry or salty that someone else from a different faction (generally that they consider the enemy, ooc half the time) is judging their RP. I'd take even more ways of reducing time within the prison itself, like making the stamp:time ratio better.

Offering time off as an incentive seems good on paper but I can imagine a fair few issues come with it working the ways mentioned above.

Don't bribe people to do better RP, instead make them feel a bit less crappy about being in prison in the first place and the RP will flow from that. The changes so far have done a pretty good job at that and going further with it would improve that. 

I'm not even going to talk much about MD RP because I'm gonna be honest with you guys, most of the time I've seen something beyond "/do broken leg" is when someone wants to stall to bleed out and generate continuous wounds that don't stop bleeding, I think a lot more effort needs to be given from the criminal side in this regard. (A simple "/me would require surgery for X" would prompt an AMU response if that's available and can be fun RP if someone actually cared about RPing something more serious)

Ya I feel as to kill all birds with one stone, just make stamp:time ratio better and people be chilling.

And the whole extend till bleed out, it just comes with the mindset "why go to jail at al when I can stall the 30 seconds till forced over and over till i bleed out and get NLR'd" in my opinion it should be looked at more severely punishment wise then just stalling RP.

I wish I was more extensive with my 3rd degree burn RP on scene rather then after, because I have tried to take the RP further, but was ghosted on the GOV site and just kinda gave up on it.

[Cyrus Raven]

I like the percentage idea Pazz mentioned, back in 2019/2020 I used to request through /report that a player have their IC time adjusted if I felt they RPed well, but I think this was changed and prohibited.

Maybe a good solution would be to start the jail/prison time as soon as a charge is added. When players eventually arrive at DOC/MRPD/Paleto the time would continue. If for some reason a player was left on a scene for more time then the charge gives out, they would be instantly released as soon as /jail or /prison is used. I think this would take players minds off of jail time knowing that their jail time is already counting down even if they are sitting in the back of a cruiser for 30 mins. This would hopefully increase the level of RP after someone is caught.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Cyrus Raven

[XeV]

4 hours ago, Cyrus Raven said:

I like the percentage idea Pazz mentioned, back in 2019/2020 I used to request through /report that a player have their IC time adjusted if I felt they RPed well, but I think this was changed and prohibited.

Maybe a good solution would be to start the jail/prison time as soon as a charge is added. When players eventually arrive at DOC/MRPD/Paleto the time would continue. If for some reason a player was left on a scene for more time then the charge gives out, they would be instantly released as soon as /jail or /prison is used. I think this would take players minds off of jail time knowing that their jail time is already counting down even if they are sitting in the back of a cruiser for 30 mins. This would hopefully increase the level of RP after someone is caught.

To me its not about "increasing the level of rp" its about there being RP at all, because why would people RP when the time stays as is the whole time? The way it currently is puts you in a mindset of "get to DOC asap to start serving your time".

Tweaking stamps:time ratio is a good starter to see if the atmosphere changes!

I have personally been SUPER pissed off because I was held in police custody for 40 minutes while PD RP was done, I didn't get to RP but I still had to sit there while they did and then go to actually serve my 3 hours sentence. Made me DESPISE the LEO's on scene and wanna seek revenge for prolonging my sentence, but if I act on it it becomes a forum report along the lines of "How is a cop doing his job escalation for a kidnapping?"

[Jett_J]

I will be looking into this.

[Bala]

On 3/2/2023 at 8:36 PM, Jett_J said:

I will be looking into this.

Bro, what are you on, lmao. There ain't no Jegal Jaction Janagement. 

I think in terms of what the original poster suggested though, it's not applicable in every situation and I wouldn't want to see this used if the RP took 5-10 minutes for example but once you start spending 15-20 minutes in the process, I could see maybe something where you get time off your sentence if it's over that.

Say you spend 25 minutes doing MD RP and there's a prison transport and you got a 60 minute sentence coming. The person who puts you in prison does something like /prison [id] 25. You'd get your fines as normal. You'd get your time as normal but it would be discounted the amount put in the command (so 35 minute sentence) and in the message that says such and such as been prisoned, it'd have the time discounted in (( )) as an OOC measure so it's public what's been discounted to lower the potential for abuse.

Obviously if people stalled the RP, they'd get jack shit.

 

[Jett_J]

9 hours ago, Bala said:

Bro, what are you on, lmao. There ain't no Jegal Jaction Janagement. 

I think in terms of what the original poster suggested though, it's not applicable in every situation and I wouldn't want to see this used if the RP took 5-10 minutes for example but once you start spending 15-20 minutes in the process, I could see maybe something where you get time off your sentence if it's over that.

Say you spend 25 minutes doing MD RP and there's a prison transport and you got a 60 minute sentence coming. The person who puts you in prison does something like /prison [id] 25. You'd get your fines as normal. You'd get your time as normal but it would be discounted the amount put in the command (so 35 minute sentence) and in the message that says such and such as been prisoned, it'd have the time discounted in (( )) as an OOC measure so it's public what's been discounted to lower the potential for abuse.

Obviously if people stalled the RP, they'd get jack shit.

 

Jou jot to be jidding me

[Requiem]

I think it would cause problems and salty attitudes if people were judged on their RP by others and given time discounts based on that. It would need to be a OOC time reduction based on time spent sitting in a vehicle doing nothing on scene, and NOT time reductions based on RP quality. So if LEOs have a crim sitting in a cell or car for 30 minutes dealing with other suspects or doing medical treatment, remove that 30 minutes based on that time spent where that player had no RP opps, not solely based on RP quality. 

[Victor Einhart]

On 3/1/2023 at 2:34 PM, Cyrus Raven said:

Maybe a good solution would be to start the jail/prison time as soon as a charge is added.

What would happen if a person is positively identified and escapes, but because they've been identified charges get placed? They might not get caught for a couple hours, making their time in jail zero. Wouldn't make sense.

[Xoza]

On 3/6/2023 at 10:06 PM, Victor Einhart said:

What would happen if a person is positively identified and escapes, but because they've been identified charges get placed? They might not get caught for a couple hours, making their time in jail zero. Wouldn't make sense.

I do like Cyrus idea, could use some modifications like police cuffs being a stat that would indicate 'detainment'; however.. even that could be abused.

I believe spending some time in prison/jail is necessary and you shouldn't be able to whittle away your time doing RP outside of it. There should be equal opportunity both outside and inside, so your character gets that experience. Jail/Prison also provides the 'soft NLR' your character would experience where it would be 'equal to the specified amount of time'. Also, while I agree its a game and these offer expansive opportunities. Just because you're detained or you spend a few 'nights' in jail, doesn't mean a judge is going to sentence you lighter on account of holding or for a heavier charge.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Xoza

[Thommy]

.

Edited March 8, 2023 by Thommy

[Cyrus Raven]

On 3/7/2023 at 5:06 AM, Victor Einhart said:

What would happen if a person is positively identified and escapes, but because they've been identified charges get placed? They might not get caught for a couple hours, making their time in jail zero. Wouldn't make sense.

That's a good point. Might be something to consider, perhaps a command that stops prison/jail time from continuing for those types of situations? Idk

[Tucccci]

I just want to say since this post was made the event of 10-15's acting "Extremely busy" as soon as they are arrested and want the process done "faster" has skyrocketed. And I understand the OOC frustration. but if you want to complain Icly about how I'm wasting your time and tax dollars, pissing and moaning like I need to be in an IC rush to save the time of someone who's shot me, I've got an interrogation room and 45 minutes of questions for you.