Bala

I'll be honest, in a more realistic setup I'd absolutely agree with you. But then you have to consider how many of these stores would continue trading when they get robbed of their cash on a daily basis or how many banks? If you can rob as many stores as you want, whenever you want, you gotta take the rough with the smooth.

Unfortunately when it comes to the robbery rules, there is some what of a contradiction at work here and what I'm about to say is with no actual insider knowledge, this is just how I personally see it. The robbery rules brought in by the administration team were necessary at the time. This is because of the increasingly bad robbery culture on Eclipse, that first started developing in the second half of 2019. Criminals are unhappy about this and it's understandable, but what you have to consider is that how hard done to, you are feeling now is how the law abiding civs were feeling when they couldn't do anything in the server without getting robbed continuously. The majority of the robberies came from small gangs or random groups of 2-3. That is in part because of the big factions flexing on them. The biggest cause in my view for the increase in the robbery culture however was the lack of criminal content in late 2019/early 2020. It was there regardless, but I think it got worse because of that, more than anything. There is always going to be people robbing people, but you can only do the same two things for so long before you get bored. Then with the mobile labs and the changes to the chop shop, it becomes more difficult to do it, so everyone doubles down on the one avenue still open to them, robbing people. Like I said in an earlier post, chop shop and labs aren't just money makers. They're hubs for interaction for criminals in a setting where to be there, you have to be a some sort of criminal. There's no innocents at a drug lab, the game is the game. I have what I think is a great suggestion that a few people know about changes to the robbery rules and I'd love to post it but I find myself wondering what exactly is it that criminals on Eclipse want? Is it a system that allows them to do anything they want or is it a system that allows them to do things that make sense and fit within a roleplay community. Because they are not the same thing. The robbery rules probably are a little too sanitised but I think we also have to take ownership of why there had to be a change in the first place.

These are just some ideas that i'd like to see implemented, even as a cop. Alliances While partnering up with other factions might seem like a good idea, our factions lean too heavily on it. Being a faction should be all about YOUR faction being the main faction. It should be about the prosperity and advancement of your members. Your faction and an ally shouldn't be in some sort of human centipede relationship where no one knows where one faction starts and the other one ends. When it comes to conflicts, the alliances seem to be born out of a do anything to win mentality and it doesn't seem that interesting. What would be more interesting is that each faction on the server has complex relationships with every other faction. Instead of Faction A/B v. Faction C/D -- Faction A having issues with Faction C, but doesn't have any problem with Faction D immediately makes things more complex. For me, factions having business relationships makes sense but constantly grouped up does not and that's something that faction management should perhaps look to work towards. Chopshops This was one of the core criminal past-times for both civilian criminals and also, criminals in factions in the past. Chopshops used to be a social hub of sorts for criminals. Obviously not like the Pier for legals but you'd only really go there if you were breaking the law. You might get your stolen vehicle stolen, you might get held up and robbed but at the same time, if you knew the right people or you paid the chop tax then you'd make a pretty decent living. The important thing here though is that criminals of all shapes and sizes were interacting with one another in a way that wasn't just an organised gang meeting or a shootout. While I can accept the timed vehicle despawn was implemented to help with the congestion of vehicles on the roads, it has really killed off what was a good revenue stream for upcoming criminals AND a half decent place for criminals to interact. If we increased the amount of time it would take for a vehicle to despawn to say 4-5 hours and added in frequent spawns of a few ownerless abandoned vehicles to the map for poor players to drive and criminals to steal then it would help the chop-shops immeasurably. In addition, I recommend adding something along the lines of Simeon's vehicle requests from GTA Online. You'd text a number and you'd receive a list of 10 possible vehicle models. If you managed to steal one of those vehicle models and deliver it to the location, you'd get paid more than the average chopshop. Drug Labs Personally, I think the implementation of the home made drug lab was pretty sweet and offers something different BUT like the chop shops, the drug labs were a place to interact with other criminals. In it's current state, the drug labs are still usable but don't offer the same experience that they used to. I think similarly it provided PD and later SD with an extra string to their bow also, when they were called to these locations which was nice. That being said, because of their endless supply of materials and also, their static nature. Metagaming, even unintentionally happened quite a lot and it just didn't really make sense the way they were setup. Static Labs Overhaul - Home Made Labs would still produce the most expensive/impactful drugs, to keep that system going. - Add additional static drug lab locations to the map, in other areas where it makes sense to add them including a couple in the poorer areas of Los Santos. - The static labs would be set-up and maintained by the official criminal factions. - OCF would have to buy a static drug lab setup and install it for $$$. Perhaps add it to the Imports? This would include the materials and the apparatus. This would take a couple minutes to setup. - OCF could claim ownership of any static drug lab, provided they had three of their members present at the time, so it would require close guarding. - The people that wanted to cook at the lab would have to buy the materials needed to cook the drugs or use their own. If they bought from the lab, 95% of the money would go to the stash of the lab which the controlling faction would be able to withdraw as their payment. - OCF and Law Enforcement would be able to destroy static drug labs. Instead of shooting the equipment, it would be an action bar that take two minutes to complete. - When a drug lab is destroyed, a new one could not be set up there for two hours after it's destruction. - The static labs would also have a couple new drugs added. - Once a lab had no more ingredients, it would need to be reset. So what this would do is establish a hierachy. You have the big criminal faction running the static lab, with other criminals doing the work. The faction is making money but in a way that is also allowing others to make money as well. The incentive there is to get people to cook for you. You actually wouldn't want to rob them, because they are working for you. Great way to make new members and money. Drug Delivery Service In 2020, we have a number of food delivery services. JustEat, Deliveroo, DoorDash etc.. but it seems to me in the age of consumerism, drug dealers would deliver to their clients instead of the other way around. - Originally, we had the drug drop-off locations but it's the same dropoff locations every single time. - The idea here is that you'd send a message to a specific phone number and in response, you'd get an order of what drugs the person wanted and also, the GPS co-ord of the home. - The bigger the order, the bigger the payout. - Either you'd have the drugs already made or you'd specifically have to go to a lab and make the drugs to fulfill that order. - We have like 2-3 delivery jobs in the server, they're really simple. This is essentially that but also, involves you having to also get the drugs yourself.

I wish I was, not gunna lie.

No it doesn't. It's salt water.

Because there is supposed to be some semblance of realism in the server. I can't see a Crip running around South Central with a Blood's liver in his bag, can you? Organs when they are severed from the blood supply have to kept on ice to avoid too much lasting damage. No one is going to want a pair of lungs that have been in someone's bag for 45 minutes. It was a foolish idea to begin with, I'm glad it's gone and I hope it stays out of the server.

While the car despawn timer being lowered was done to try and control the clutter, inevitably a vehicle spawns in anothers spot and the cars end up littering the streets, like at LSPD. Also, less vehicles left idle makes it a lot harder for criminals to steal them which is another area that criminals have lost out.

It wouldn't make sense, because the vast majority of criminals don't chop bits of evidence off and try and sell it to the local abattoir. There's no rational defence for it lmao.

To be completely honest, I'm not sure that an organ-fuelled economy is supposed to be sustainable. While I can agree with some of your other points, there is one less way for criminals to make money than there was before, bringing back the human meat drop-off isn't it. I'm sure there are a bunch of other things that could be added in place of this, things that don't even need to be that complex.

I've been in prison on an alt and the sum of my experience there was mining stamps monotonously and being chased around the general population area by two greebos who wanted to punch me for no reason. Script support doesn't force roleplay but it sure would help. Half of the problems that I can see stem from boredom. If the Prisoners are more engaged and well-behaved, the DOC guards can interact with them and that improves their faction and the overall roleplay of the place. My hat goes off to @Kat and her team for getting as much juice out of that fruit as possible and making it a half decent experience. If you want ideas, just play prison architect for half an hour.

It's a difficult one, because a lot of times from what I have experienced assisting on the reports, you have to focus primarily on facts and rules. What x has done to y. I think first, we have to accept there is going to be a certain amount of shit-talking and disagreement, regardless of any measures. People are going to argue and disagree, people pick sides and things get tribal. That being said, I think we have to establish whether we are a role-play server or a role-play community. If we are a role-play server, the only thing that matters is what happens in-game and the experience in-game. The forums and discord would not be as relevant. If we are a role-play community though, we've got to really cut down on the toxicity. The whole 'see you on the forums' meme is basically a passive-aggressive threat. It's schoolboy shit. It's basically saying "I'm going to tell the teacher on you!" If you are going to report someone for something, just do it. No need to start with the SAVE POV meme either, if people don't record to back themselves up, that's their problem and it's none of your concern. You just report the potential rule-break and get on with your day. Get rid of the downvotes on the forum altogether. It's meme-y and it's basically an easy way to troll without having to commit to a post. If you are using meta terms like the ones @FrankieP suggested, you should be getting a metagaming punishment in my opinion. Not just for mixing IC/OOC, but again, factoring the rules too heavily in your role-play. People start getting punished for that, it'll cut it out real quick. In terms of factions, if it was me, I'd be issuing fair faction punishments for factions who have members that encourage or add to the toxicity in the community. Either you cut them loose or the faction gets punished. If you can't keep your members in line, you probably should not lead a faction on Eclipse. The majority of the faction leaders, official or not, do a great job of this but there are exceptions and of exceptions, one can make examples.

I think we have to be a little bit realistic about the level of involvement your average joe is going to have on the decisions in the community. People would obviously like to have some sort of say in their community but if you listen to too many people, it becomes a little bit like the inmates start running the asylum. In terms of criminal stuff, if it was me, I'd task each faction leader of the main crim factions (official/unofficial) to speak to their faction members and come up with lists of what issues afflict the criminal scene, then dividing them up into sections; Issues that can be fixed without script support i.e. rules. Issues that can be fixed with script support i.e. features. Issues that cannot be fixed. Issues that are not really issues. Even if you can only fix a couple of the problems on the list, you send out the message that you're not just open to conversations but also actively working with those factions to improve things AND you have less problems than you had before. The problem with threads like these is the inevitably they go off in all different directions. Either someone goes off on a tangent or someone brings up issues that aren't specific to the topic. There are some well-known, well-respected criminal role-players in this community with both great ideas and perspectives that if they were indulged a little more, could really help that side of the server.

Personally, I think the struggle comes from it being difficult to pick out the good ideas and the well-meaning community members, from those that just want to specifically benefit themselves and/or their faction. There is a lot of that and unfortunately, it does tend to suffocate the good ideas that people do come up with. It is easy to tar people with the same brush and it tends to be what happens. If you are a criminal, you take the criminal POV. If you are a cop, you take the cop POV. Voting in self-interest is the most natural thing, because why would you vote any other way? But, ultimately, it leads to people picking sides and not to people supporting a common goal. There is a great irony though, that cops rely on criminals and criminals rely on the cops. There is a heavy police involvement in the upper admin teams, you are right but when you look at it, it's also pretty natural. You serve the IC laws and the OOC rules. PD and Staff aren't really that much different so it makes doing both easier. I would like to be honest, I don't think that the interests of our criminal role-players are represented as well as they could be but then at the same time, I don't look at the higher administrators and think they are looking to fuck over a significant portion of the player-base either. For me, it is just that both sides right now are speaking different languages. I'll use the faction war system and the newest robbery rules as examples. Both were introduced because criminals had gotten way out of control with their actions, so the admins respond to protect the interests of other people in the server, which is what you would expect and hope they would do. In doing so, I feel that perhaps too much unpredictability was lost and it lead to more rule-play than role-play. Good Roleplay is not hiding behind the rules nor is it typing fifty /me's. It's about building character and "living" in the world around you. If you have to second guess everything you do, you've already lost it.

It's just a game, where your actions have consequences and risks. It just so happens that PD or SD are your consequences and going to jail is your risk. We are the main danger you face and you are put in that danger by having the option to do whatever you want to do regardless of the law. End of the day, it's not really for us to decide amongst ourselves what's realistic and is not. We're told in PD what we're allowed to use by our faction leader. That faction leader answers to the higher ups in the community and they answer to the founders. I'd expect you to use whatever means you have in game to allow you to evade, so why wouldn't you expect the same of me, you know?

The understanding with the supercars is that we have to respect the fact they cost a lot of money and we don't want to do things that may cause unnecessary damage to a vehicle. There is going off road on relatively easy terrain to drive and there is going up and down mountains. There is a clear distinction. In the report you linked, the 811 did not ram any body, it was hit by the other sheriff cruiser. But then why are you driving a Comet off-road and onto train tracks, then complaining about others, Alberto? As for the helicopter, standard use of them tops them out at about 230-240. If pepjin got his helicopter to 290, he was more than likely doing something that he shouldn't of been. It will only go that fast if you are decreasing altitude significantly (which you aren't in a pursuit, you are more or less the same height, with the front of the helicopter tipped forward slightly) In terms of PD and super cars, you have to have a certain rank and there are a list of vehicles we can deploy the high speed for. But again, they are also unmodded. You might want a PD "nerf" but this is the same server that has the Hakuchou Drag still in circulation. I don't think people bought F620s for the style did they? What about the recent bike debacle? They had to speed cap all the cars, because some of them could 250.. 280.. Threads like this come along every once in a while yet when you ask people the same questions, they offer no real answers. Balancing the server is only a priority if it's in their own personal interest.

I think a rule lives and dies by two things. One, how straight-forward is to follow and Two, what is the reason for it being implemented in a realistic context on an RP server? In terms of the robbery rule, it seems to cite common sense. You can't rob people in places that to do so would put you at too much risk. By extension, that seems to be where a lot of people go. But then you only need to use public transport in some real-life cities and your phone/wallet goes missing, so then is the amount of people really that good of an indicator and if it isn't, what is? Do you go by the amount of players at that location, players that would normally go by that location or do you perhaps go by the assumption that the area would be populated by a lot of people? If it's the first one, robbing a lone farmer on Paul's Farm could be rationalised. If it's the second one, robbing someone along the boardwalk past the mask shop on Vespucci Beach could be rationalised because the concentration of players is on the pier. If it's the third one, if you are then imagining people or things that are not actually there for the player, at what point does that become alternative RP or power-gaming? With my suggestion in this post, I tried to use real-life situations and in-game activity as a guide of where you could rob and where it would make sense. There are high concentrations of players using the Pier, Paleto, Sandy, LS Bank and Legion Square so robbing someone there is too high risk. In-real life, they would be relatively safe. But you start going through Grove Street and those kinds of areas, they're sparsely used and in real life, those kinds of areas are definitely not safe. Chiliad is the same, you are in the middle of nowhere. If you cut the ambiguity surrounding whether a robbery situation is kosher, you cut the reports.

Big -1, agree with below.

Honestly at this point, i just want to be able to remove my tattoo without having to hide it as well.

+1

I'm not sure it was so much the gangs that were doing it, it was the starter criminals, the ones that the bigger gangs robbed. Big gang robs small gang so small gang robs civilians basically. There is a natural order to that, but when there are very little other ways for criminals to indulge that life and make money then they are going to have to resort to robbing people. That issue wasn't addressed and is still a problem, it was just that a rule was made that stopped a lot of the robbery so now there is less ways to make money.

So, the rough idea would be something like this. In-game would look a little like this, it's not massively intrusive, doesn't colour the map or anything like that. In terms of the neighbourhoods (it's the easiest way to do it because these neighbourhoods are already programmed in.) Paleto, Sandy, Legion Square areas would be green zones because of their closeness to police departments. The red zones are either hard to reach areas that typically host trouble anyway OR poor income areas where RPly the crime rate would be high. A rough guide but if they want it to be done properly, then they'd need to sign off on it.

Aw thanks babe, i'll try doing a mockup map so people could see how it would work.

There was an issue before where it did happen way too much, I don't think that can be denied. There needed to be a change. Is the change that happened the right one? I mean, it fixed the problem, but then it did perhaps create problems as well where people are second guessing whether they can actually rob which is no good and people do use the new rules for protection as well. For me, it should be a middle ground situation. You don't want people getting chain robbed, but you also don't want to wrap them in cotton wool either. That's how you end up with snowflake players. For me, the easiest way to do it is to use real life influences. Where would you typically get robbed in real life? Rough neighbourhoods. Remote locations like the Senora Desert. Areas with low police presence. Areas with small foot and vehicle traffic. The chance of getting robbed increases at night. If players are relying on common sense when it comes to robbing than a list of "approved areas" then you'll see more roleplay and less rule-play. Is someone lingering in Davis safe, at any point in the day? Probably not to be honest. Is an oil driller, drilling for oil, safe? In the day, probably. Forget the people working it, it's pretty visible from the roads too. At night though? it's a remote location and it'd be dark so maybe not so much. A little danger is a good thing, for RP. Not just because someone IS robbing you but because you are in a situation where someone MIGHT. If you are smart and use common sense, you won't put yourself in dangerous positions, but if you are greedy or you don't think, you might and then you deserve what you get.

Why you hijacking my thread with your suggestions? I do not consent!

Because of what you have to do in prison and how long to get even $1000.