Hakuchou Drag Turning

[CalvinKlein]

1 hour ago, Harvs said:

Now that's irrelevant. You can't compare a bike with a police cruiser. 

Firstly, the cruiser doesn't have half of the acceleration capability that the drag does. Secondly the top speed of a car/bike depends on the gearing ratio (especially the last gear in the gearbox). A cruiser has a top speed of 240 on the highway when hitting bumps; without bumps, it peaks at 220. The drag on the other hand has a top speed of 200, this is because of the gearing ratio that the drag got. The top speed has nothing to do with the engine size. The cruiser has a V8, like you mentioned above, but it has a low gearing ratio, making it accelerating very slowly but having a high top speed, where the drag has a high gearing ratio, as it should have, so it accelerates so quick but making it have a lower top speed. That's how measuring/setting top speed works IRL and in the actual game. Also you can make a car that has a 4Cylinder engine with 100Hp, but adding low ratio gears to make it go 300Km/h, but to reach that 300Km/h, it would take a minute or two. 

GTA is not real life, but when Rockstar made the game, they tried to use as much real life mechanics as possible and implementing them in their game. 

I'm not trying to argue here, but i'm stating facts. 

Those “facts” prove nothing you’re basically saying GTA V uses as much real life mechanics as possible in their game however the drag nerf wasn’t GTA V’s doing, you brought up realism and I responded with the same magnitude, what good is the acceleration of the drag if you can not take turns on it ? It’s literally a useless bike, might as well make off-road vehicles only good off road because you know.. you’re implying it should only be good on a drag strip, make the drift vehicles only good for drifting, supercars only good for track racing ? I don’t get your point broski.. but again obviously since you mainly rp a cop character, making drags unusable benefits you so I understand where you come from. it’s like people forgot how easy it was to injure yourself on a drag or get hit by a car etc, driving it was a risk alone specially after you stopped being able to use radios while injured, then the fuel tanks came in play making it unusable as a main vehicle and turned it to a tool criminals utilize from time to time depending on the scenario, then it was just increased traction to the point where it couldn’t go up the smallest incline (which I’m glad got fixed) but instead the handling was just destroyed.

 

p.s since you went into such detail explaining the irl mechanics behind gears and top speeds of vehicles, a Yamaha r6 which is nothing compared to the irl model of the drag can reach 300 km/h + in real life without much struggle when a superbike can only do 200 while an old , heavy crown Victoria can hit 240? Come on how does that make sense to u 

Edited February 8, 2021 by CalvinKlein

[Zoah]

This is my take on a few topics related to the Drag. The Drag was definitely easy to escape from cops with before any changes. But it was not easy just because of the handling of the bike. Off-Roading escapes were the easiest. It was already nerfed multiple times by the new off-roading rules and the fuel tank. Along with the tunnels being blocked off now. 

I believe the rule changes regarding off-roading was sufficient as a nerf to the Drag and increased realism in pursuits. I believe the handling Nerfs are a bit too extreme. I read this article and it seems that in real life stretching the bike would make taking corners a little bit more unstable but would increase straight line and slight turn stability. (read for yourself) https://www.hayabusa.org/forum/threads/stretching-my-bike-will-kill-my-curving-abilities.96340/

I don't think we should try to make the server too overly realistic and stray too far from the core vehicle mechanics of GTA. Rockstar did a great job designing their vehicles and tuning them how they are. There are a million things that should be changed if you really want everything to be "realistic". To me it seems like the Drag being put in the spotlight instead of the tons of other unrealistic things on the server is just because PD is tired of not being able to catch Crims on them. It feels very biased. Cops don't lose anything if they don't arrest a crim. If a crim gets arrested they could lose $10,000-$100,000+ and have to spend many hours in jail.

Is the 240KM/H speed cap realistic? Is the amount of crime in the city realistic to a real city? Is the speed and acceleration of cop cruisers realistic? Is it realistic that people are going to kill each other over petty stuff? Is anything in the server realistic? No because it's literally a video game at the end of the day and people should stop trying to take the fun out of it. We're all here to escape from real life and be something we're not in real life. There's a balance in the server that needs to be maintained, it's between realism and video game characteristics. If the server was exactly like real life nobody would play it. The realism argument is very poor in my opinion. 

Us Crim's had a great bond with the Drag as it was every new gang member's dream to purchase one and be able to get away from the Police supers and Helicopters. It takes a long time to make money as a crim, because our RP directly results in money and time loss in prison or by losing weapons in fights, drug table explosions etc. Saving and buying a drag was satisfying and is not a quick task. I'm sure a lot of people are upset about the nerfs and sad they can't drive their favorite bike anymore. 

The Suzuki Hayabusa has a fuel capacity of 21 litres. The bike gets 14kilometers per litre of gas. Which means a tank should get at least 294 Kilometers of driving. 

The R34 GTR holds 65 litres and gets 16.16 L/100KM. This equals about 400 Kilometers.  On Eclipse right now the Drag gets 1/4th of the mileage of the Elegy Retro, if not less. The fuel nerfs which were supposed to be more realistic have actually made it LESS realistic, how does this make sense? 

Overall the nerfing of the drag was just another thing to make criminals feel targeted negatively and like our voices aren't being heard as much as the legal side of the server. I applaud people like Bala who genuinely care about us Crim's and our well being on the server enough to spend hours coming up with fresh ideas.  I hope my post sheds some light on the criminal viewpoint for those who haven't experienced it. 

Thanks for reading  

[CalvinKlein]

1 hour ago, Yousef Assad said:

This is my take on a few topics related to the Drag. The Drag was definitely easy to escape from cops with before any changes. But it was not easy just because of the handling of the bike. Off-Roading escapes were the easiest. It was already nerfed multiple times by the new off-roading rules and the fuel tank. Along with the tunnels being blocked off now. 

I believe the rule changes regarding off-roading was sufficient as a nerf to the Drag and increased realism in pursuits. I believe the handling Nerfs are a bit too extreme. I read this article and it seems that in real life stretching the bike would make taking corners a little bit more unstable but would increase straight line and slight turn stability. (read for yourself) https://www.hayabusa.org/forum/threads/stretching-my-bike-will-kill-my-curving-abilities.96340/

I don't think we should try to make the server too overly realistic and stray too far from the core vehicle mechanics of GTA. Rockstar did a great job designing their vehicles and tuning them how they are. There are a million things that should be changed if you really want everything to be "realistic". To me it seems like the Drag being put in the spotlight instead of the tons of other unrealistic things on the server is just because PD is tired of not being able to catch Crims on them. It feels very biased. Cops don't lose anything if they don't arrest a crim. If a crim gets arrested they could lose $10,000-$100,000+ and have to spend many hours in jail.

Is the 240KM/H speed cap realistic? Is the amount of crime in the city realistic to a real city? Is the speed and acceleration of cop cruisers realistic? Is it realistic that people are going to kill each other over petty stuff? Is anything in the server realistic? No because it's literally a video game at the end of the day and people should stop trying to take the fun out of it. We're all here to escape from real life and be something we're not in real life. There's a balance in the server that needs to be maintained, it's between realism and video game characteristics. If the server was exactly like real life nobody would play it. The realism argument is very poor in my opinion. 

Us Crim's had a great bond with the Drag as it was every new gang member's dream to purchase one and be able to get away from the Police supers and Helicopters. It takes a long time to make money as a crim, because our RP directly results in money and time loss in prison or by losing weapons in fights, drug table explosions etc. Saving and buying a drag was satisfying and is not a quick task. I'm sure a lot of people are upset about the nerfs and sad they can't drive their favorite bike anymore. 

The Suzuki Hayabusa has a fuel capacity of 21 litres. The bike gets 14kilometers per litre of gas. Which means a tank should get at least 294 Kilometers of driving. 

The R34 GTR holds 65 litres and gets 16.16 L/100KM. This equals about 400 Kilometers.  On Eclipse right now the Drag gets 1/4th of the mileage of the Elegy Retro, if not less. The fuel nerfs which were supposed to be more realistic have actually made it LESS realistic, how does this make sense? 

Overall the nerfing of the drag was just another thing to make criminals feel targeted negatively and like our voices aren't being heard as much as the legal side of the server. I applaud people like Bala who genuinely care about us Crim's and our well being on the server enough to spend hours coming up with fresh ideas.  I hope my post sheds some light on the criminal viewpoint for those who haven't experienced it. 

Thanks for reading  

Bless

[Curtins]

nah its fine the way it is 

[CalvinKlein]

7 hours ago, Curtins said:

nah its fine the way it is 

Ofc homie; you don’t have one 

[Qiang]

funny thing is people waste their time trying to Convinced others and founders. they will not change anything like all the updates and rules adds to the server and lots of players didn't like it . trust me don't waste time on something they already change it because of you abusing it this will happen with vortex as well when criminals abuse it too. and drug tables and Apartman building.
 I have drag bought it for 1.5 m 1 year ago never even use it. was a normal bike for me. 

[Gyromite]

Keep the current turning, increase top speed to 240. Thoughts?

[CalvinKlein]

14 minutes ago, Gyromite said:

Keep the current turning, increase top speed to 240. Thoughts?

Honestly any upgrade would be a +, given the bike is literally unusable now and Everyone who owns / drives one can agree it’s terrible, whether it’s your average pier fisherman , criminal, legal , or cop

[Curtins]

3 hours ago, CalvinKlein said:

Ofc homie; you don’t have one 

[Whitney]

YesI Think That Novak Should Be Nerfed...

[Kento]

40 minutes ago, Clara said:

YesI Think That Novak Should Be Nerfed...

The Novak all ready has bad turning at high speeds so I believe it’s good how it is now

[Clank]

Anyone complaining about the underwhelming performance of a vehicle is not here for RP, change my mind. Who cares if something is slow. I literally collect slow unique vehicles. Not everything is about going fast. Honestly, its an RP server not a racing server. Just like ANY other game. Your favorite weapon, item, gear, equipment, mount, spell etc got nerfed and you ditch it? It was not really your favorite now was it? I swear bro people always find a reason to complain about performance having this play-to-win mentality. 

"me spend money, me want go fast"

[alexalex303]

22 hours ago, Yousef Assad said:

Us Crim's had a great bond with the Drag as it was every new gang member's dream to purchase one and be able to get away from the Police supers and Helicopters. It takes a long time to make money as a crim, because our RP directly results in money and time loss in prison or by losing weapons in fights, drug table explosions etc. Saving and buying a drag was satisfying and is not a quick task. I'm sure a lot of people are upset about the nerfs and sad they can't drive their favorite bike anymore. 

That is something that you made yourself, you can not blame the developers or the staff team for raising the roleplay standard just because you had a "bond" with a get out of jail free card. You can still drive your favorite bike all day, you might need to go to the gas station more often, and you can no longer easily escape from all RP consequences, but the bike is still there.

I believe that your attitude, and the attitude of most people in this thread is not about loss of RP opportunities, or bonds, or whatever, it's directly related to the fact that you can no longer escape all roleplay consequences by using a drag. There were people that made arguments that executing someone next to an NCZ was realistic because they had a drag to get away on and a mask on. That is the kind of behavior that these nerfs addressed. The lack of consequences, not your RP style, nor your RP choices.

If you liked the drag for looks, or RP reasons, those are both still there. 

[Clank]

2 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

That is something that you made yourself, you can not blame the developers or the staff team for raising the roleplay standard just because you had a "bond" with a get out of jail free card. You can still drive your favorite bike all day, you might need to go to the gas station more often, and you can no longer easily escape from all RP consequences, but the bike is still there.

I believe that your attitude, and the attitude of most people in this thread is not about loss of RP opportunities, or bonds, or whatever, it's directly related to the fact that you can no longer escape all roleplay consequences by using a drag. There were people that made arguments that executing someone next to an NCZ was realistic because they had a drag to get away on and a mask on. That is the kind of behavior that these nerfs addressed. The lack of consequences, not your RP style, nor your RP choices.

If you liked the drag for looks, or RP reasons, those are both still there. 

Bro you mean to tell me that I can't just escape police for free now?? This will not stand. My favorite bike is ruined because it is not overpowered anymore!! 

[CalvinKlein]

30 minutes ago, ClankH said:

Anyone complaining about the underwhelming performance of a vehicle is not here for RP, change my mind. Who cares if something is slow. I literally collect slow unique vehicles. Not everything is about going fast. Honestly, its an RP server not a racing server. Just like ANY other game. Your favorite weapon, item, gear, equipment, mount, spell etc got nerfed and you ditch it? It was not really your favorite now was it? I swear bro people always find a reason to complain about performance having this play-to-win mentality. 

"me spend money, me want go fast"

I mean if x Ray is taken from you, so are supercars, for the sake of realism and we stopped having many vehicles like the drag, I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t like it but it won’t mean “you’re not here to rp” people engaged in lots of rp to build their character and IC wealth to the point where they afforded it and obtained it, then it was part of their character to be able to just always avoid interactions with cops, most of the time I was using my drag I would never even talk or interact with cops most of the time and I managed to stay clear of felonies for 2 months while actively playing as a criminal because I would utilize this tool I earned tactically and just always leave and be discreet without being seen, that’s a tool and you have tools yourself as being in PD and at times it even fucked me up and I’ve been caught because of the bike multiple times and it wasn’t as “OP” as you claim it is , I could say “me get high rank in PD me get supercar” since you’re saying “me spend money me want go fast”

you own 6 drags yourself so I’m not sure how you’re dissing the original state of the bike.

[Clank]

3 minutes ago, CalvinKlein said:

you own 6 drags yourself so I’m not sure how you’re dissing the original state of the bike.

I only had 5, sold one now I'm left with 4. I had them to flip for profit. I don't even drive fast cars other than my sultan classic and only cause its my favorite whip. The rest of my cars are funny plate collector cars such as a pink asbo with the plate 'pussycat', a 190z, a jester with the plate 'peep' etc. 

[Awan]

I hope we can all agree this is a videogame and selective realism is a thing.

We can keep bringing up stuff that is not realistic and it would be a never ending discussion on what is realistic and not.
And I really feel a discussion on what is realistic and not is counter productive and likely not why devs/staff would change the vehicle.
The same point can be made about nearly any vehicle.
In the end choices have to made and obviously realism is not the only factor that went into the choices.
Because if it's realistic but not fun you still have an issue. 

And mentioning buying because it is the best vehicle to get away from cops/helicopters can make it sound as if you are playing to win.
And before you get into an argument about a crim would buy the best vehicle to escape from cops feel free to google the tempest stormwind falacy. 

TL:DR Generalization 1: One is not automatically a worse roleplayer if he optimizes, and vice versa. Generalization 2: A non-optimized character is not automatically roleplayed better than an optimized one, and vice versa. (This also goes to people saying you are not a roleplayer if you buy a drag.)

What I mean with this it is wrong to say a player who buys a drag is playing to win. But a player who is playing to win will likely buy a drag.
And complaining about how you need it changed to get away from pd/sd is just not productive either.
 

And the worst bit is you do not even need a drag to get away.
Imo it's risk reward the higher reward the more risk you can take.
Op vehicles can take away from the risk and lead to very odd situations because risk reward is thrown off.
If you have friends and use diffrent vehicles you already increase your chances of escaping.
By splitting up you will only have half the units after you and a heli can only follow one vehicle.
That is already likely way better then any vehicle will be.
If you have 5 friends it's 1th the units. Now pd/sd might just follow one. But it's still a 80% chance to get away if that is the case.
But guess what this fits into risk/reward. Because now the reward is split as well.
 

[Copes]

55 minutes ago, ClankH said:

its an RP server not a racing server

[Clank]

  

14 minutes ago, Rickyriggz said:

fact is they've nerfed crims into the ground. They've given PD all the tools to succeed and crims still pull through. But im glad you enjoy teasing people who actually worked for their shit. How's the spawned in gas station going btw? 

You and I both know that playing this game to win is not the end-all-be-all goal. Well, it shouldn't be. Its about having fun. Every single time I log onto my multiple criminal accounts I mentally prepare myself to be ready to face a possible 4+ hour sentence. You should not play the game expecting not to get caught. Always be ready to get caught, the goal is not to win, its to have a fun time. There's a reason I've only posted like 3 forum reports in total. 

 

You're supposed to play to have good times with the boys, play a role or character that is fun for you. If you're not having fun playing a criminal character, I think its time to lean towards the civilian or government faction RP. "Success" is relative. I have IRL friends that play this game once in a blue moon just to have fun and laugh meeting people etc. If you're working hard for something, make it something you will enjoy regardless of its status in the "meta". 

 

I enjoy the PVP aspect of the server, its fun and it gets the adrenaline pumping but that does not mean I don't enjoy the simple cop RP. Not everything can be a big situation, cops do not always win. 

 

The only time where losing should leave a sour taste is when rules are broken.

[Awan]

19 minutes ago, CalvinKlein said:

I mean if x Ray is taken from you, so are supercars, for the sake of realism and we stopped having many vehicles like the drag, I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t like it but it won’t mean “you’re not here to rp” people engaged in lots of rp to build their character and IC wealth to the point where they afforded it and obtained it, then it was part of their character to be able to just always avoid interactions with cops, most of the time I was using my drag I would never even talk or interact with cops most of the time and I managed to stay clear of felonies for 2 months while actively playing as a criminal because I would utilize this tool I earned tactically and just always leave and be discreet without being seen, that’s a tool and you have tools yourself as being in PD and at times it even fucked me up and I’ve been caught because of the bike multiple times and it wasn’t as “OP” as you claim it is , I could say “me get high rank in PD me get supercar” since you’re saying “me spend money me want go fast”

you own 6 drags yourself so I’m not sure how you’re dissing the original state of the bike.

I want to reply to this specific post even though I just made a general post as a reply.
You make an assumption and funny enough I talked to 4 people in SD today because of the vacca.
And well the fact that an 811 is not realistic for sd to have.
I do not want to go on a long rant about realism because of my above post.
But the general concensus among these people was that using such expensive vehicles for crime is in itself unrealistic. They would be taken away from you pretty quickly.
And I can tell you all 4 of those and me would not mind losing the supers if it means crims also do not get to use supers.

 

[Driqz]

26 minutes ago, ClankH said:

Every single time I log onto my multiple criminal accounts

and Is these characters Randoms? or in a well established gang that is getting hunted by PD for being a felon? the discussion we talking about here is the performance of a super bike that you turned it into "Win/Lose" and "Escape from Jail free card" if that doesn't scream Win mentality I don't know what is. 
Bike is already nerfed from the new gas tank and handling is way bad as of now.
the drag can be tweaked to have the handling a little bit better or to be faster as some people suggested. leave these forums for actual good suggestions.
 

[Mamattos13]

59 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

That is something that you made yourself, you can not blame the developers or the staff team for raising the roleplay standard just because you had a "bond" with a get out of jail free card.

I mean, I would understand this point if the police crown vic couldn't go almost as fast as a comet retro. 

[Awan]

3 minutes ago, Driqz said:

and Is these characters Randoms? or in a well established gang that is getting hunted by PD for being a felon? the discussion we talking about here is the performance of a super bike that you turned it into "Win/Lose" and "Escape from Jail free card" if that doesn't scream Win mentality I don't know what is. 
Bike is already nerfed from the new gas tank and handling is way bad as of now.
the drag can be tweaked to have the handling a little bit better or to be faster as some people suggested. leave these forums for actual good suggestions.
 

I have to laugh a bit here. Because a point on why the bike should be changed that was brought forth by someone is because people saved up for it since it's so great to escape with. And I do my best to not accuse anyone here of playing to win. I am trying to say that that should not be an argument on why the bike should be changed. And neither should just realism be.

[Clank]

20 minutes ago, Driqz said:

and Is these characters Randoms? or in a well established gang that is getting hunted by PD for being a felon? the discussion we talking about here is the performance of a super bike that you turned it into "Win/Lose" and "Escape from Jail free card" if that doesn't scream Win mentality I don't know what is. 
Bike is already nerfed from the new gas tank and handling is way bad as of now.
the drag can be tweaked to have the handling a little bit better or to be faster as some people suggested. leave these forums for actual good suggestions.
 

The thread got derailed when people started complaining that the bike they saved up for and worked hard to achieve their "Dream" of escaping police. I was addressing this.

Nice try with the fallacy though.

 

And yes, my criminal characters ARE felons. Literally got a stockpile of heavies on multiple alts. The whole point is to remain incognito and NOT attract police attention but I know that can be hard to comprehend sometimes.

Edited February 9, 2021 by ClankH

[FrankieP]

@ClankH Bro stop capping no one believes you've ever properly played crim