Remove the limit on the number of official factions players can be in.

[Speed Racer]

Suggestion is all in the title: Remove the limit on the number of official factions players can be in.

Not entirely sure why people who are involved with multiple groups must choose which two faction chats they wish to be a part of. It might not affect many people on the server, but there are people who may be trying to grow their own faction into an official one while also working 2 government jobs and will be forced to choose to leave one of those jobs on purely OOC reasons thanks to this limitation if they find success with their own faction.

 

EDIT: To consolidate my responses to counterpoints or limitations brought up for this, I'm editing this and will post below to notify of this edit.

While I think the rules and regulations of government factions will prevent people from holding 4 incredibly different jobs on one character (time will catch up with them and they will get fired for inactivity from one or more relatively quickly), I'd be open to either limitation that's been presented so far:

• Keep a limit in place but raise it to 3 or 4
• Create a new faction category for hobby groups like Burnout or LSMC and create an limit on the number of factions within each category (i.e. 2 gov and 1 hobby).

The idea of OOC limitations on character development choices still doesn't sit well with me, but this is a compromise I'd be open to making.

Edited February 1, 2021 by Speed Racer

[Payn]

+1 I totally agree, It holds you back from working for multiple factions, and potential with great RP within them factions. For example if you wanted to work for say MD and SD and then be in maybe the Burnout nation faction, you wouldn't be able to, unless you could make a new faction category for say none job related factions, maybe a class called a 'Club' as these are not jobs so I don't see why working 2 jobs should stop you from joining a factions as such!

[Dalvichan]

+1

I believe it should be limited to two government job factions and one other faction. There are a lot of faction groups now that are civilian factions and are more hobby groups than jobs. Limiting the number of government job factions would prevent people from trying to work everywhere, but removing the limit on overall factions would allow players to explore other RP opportunities they may not have had. 

As an example, I know of multiple people who are in two different gov factions (PD/mech, mech/GOV, MD/PD) who are also in Burnout Nation. They either can't be part of the F4 for Burnout, or (for those who are HC of Burnout), they can't do other government jobs they're interested in due to the limit, even if they have spare time they could contribute to jobs.

[NeverMind]

+1

 

The only argument I've heard against this is that 1 person can't commit to more than 2 factions on a time level but in my opinion that should be up to the individual factions and people and not an OOC limitation set outside that. 

 

With the rise of Civ RP factions, having the ability to be in more than 2 would be nice. 

[FrankieP]

+1

The current rule also limits criminals wishing to engage in spy RP

[alexalex303]

-1

I think that the perks that come with being in an official factions are relatively strong, and they are there because of the RP that comes with it. I do not believe that it would be realistic for someone to wake up, go to a mechanic shop, start working on cars, just for an hour later to put on their judge robes adjudicate a case, then go to central MD, clock in as a paramedic only to end the day by watching inmates at DOC.

This is what alts are for. One character should not be able to do everything, and you can very well argue its unrealistic.

[Dalvichan]

1 minute ago, alexalex303 said:

-1

I think that the perks that come with being in an official factions are relatively strong, and they are there because of the RP that comes with it. I do not believe that it would be realistic for someone to wake up, go to a mechanic shop, start working on cars, just for an hour later to put on their judge robes adjudicate a case, then go to central MD, clock in as a paramedic only to end the day by watching inmates at DOC.

This is what alts are for. One character should not be able to do everything, and you can very well argue its unrealistic.

Some people don't want to dedicate time to an entire second or third character. As I suggested, I think you should be limited to two gov jobs but be able to join a third faction outside of the gov positions, which would allow for people to join the civilian/hobby factions.

You're correct, what you described would be very unrealistic; however, that's not how I feel many people would wish to use this change. If the multiple jobs and other factions make sense for your character RP'ly and based on their backstory, then I don't believe people should be scriptly limited to what they want to explore.

[alexalex303]

Just now, Dalvichan said:

Some people don't want to dedicate time to an entire second or third character. As I suggested, I think you should be limited to two gov jobs but be able to join a third faction outside of the gov positions, which would allow for people to join the civilian/hobby factions.

You're correct, what you described would be very unrealistic; however, that's not how I feel many people would wish to use this change. If the multiple jobs and other factions make sense for your character RP'ly and based on their backstory, then I don't believe people should be scriptly limited to what they want to explore.

I think that based on prior player interaction with the script, we need to operate with the assumption that people will use it to their advantage, if possible. The main suggestion says no limit; that would get out of control very very quickly. I can see having a third non-government faction slot, for sure, but I am strongly against removing limits entirely.

[Asbo]

big up +1.

[Speed Racer]

41 minutes ago, Dalvichan said:

Some people don't want to dedicate time to an entire second or third character. As I suggested, I think you should be limited to two gov jobs but be able to join a third faction outside of the gov positions, which would allow for people to join the civilian/hobby factions.

You're correct, what you described would be very unrealistic; however, that's not how I feel many people would wish to use this change. If the multiple jobs and other factions make sense for your character RP'ly and based on their backstory, then I don't believe people should be scriptly limited to what they want to explore.

 

38 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

I think that based on prior player interaction with the script, we need to operate with the assumption that people will use it to their advantage, if possible. The main suggestion says no limit; that would get out of control very very quickly. I can see having a third non-government faction slot, for sure, but I am strongly against removing limits entirely.

Original Post edited to accommodate these points.

[Ranger]

Massive +1 I think Speed Racer and Dalvichan said a lot on this topic that I feel the same way about.

 

The main point is that we have seen a spike in legal/gang factions popping up recently, and it sucks to see faction members have to choose a faction to join based on OOC limitations on faction caps once they reach official. By no means should someone work 3 jobs, as they wouldn't have the time for it (you never know though), but more or less help the factions that get official / working to get official allow members to be in F4.

 

Personally with Burnout Nation, we have about 4 members that are not in F4 menu that we have due to these limitations, and it really is a minor upset that we as an official faction have to have members choose what F4 to be in due to the limitation, which is a big bummer that we worked hard for official, got an F4 menu and roster, and a few members had to choose not to be in it, due to our civilian faction not being a faction that pays out, having/wanting to prioritize the factions that do payout, and also due to obligations in other factions they were a part of/joined. 

Aside from burnout, I feel for the other official civilian faction like LSMC, and for the upcoming factions that are currently working for official that might see the same issue/are seeing the same issue currently, and in the future with the current 2 faction limit. I do not speak for these factions, but more or less can relate to the issue that I am bringing up that they may have dealt with or will deal with in the future.

In the past, the original limit was one faction, which was eventually lifted to the current limit which is currently 2. With the player base rising exponentially over the recent months of lockdown, and Epic releasing the game for free a few months back, I think that we will be seeing an insurgence of more factions being created and striving for official (and we have), which would be a greater reason to raise this limit up.

 I think they way the system could work is to set Civilian factions as their own class, and keep the limit for government factions like LSC, Bayview, PD, SD, DOC, Weazel, DCC, and IC Govt overall raising/reworking the limit from 2 Factions Maximum to 2 Government Factions, and 1 Civilian Faction Maximum. The current F4 menu shows each faction classed under its own class - Civilian, Government, and Criminal as shown in the screenshots below. I think that it would be possible to mark those as separate factions, and make a limit similar to the one mentioned in the last couple sentences. 

I think that it would be fairly easy and possible to mark those as separate factions, where civilian factions would be marked with a (3).

Thank you for reading my Ted talk, and again, +1

Edited February 1, 2021 by Ranger

[Payn]

4 hours ago, alexalex303 said:

-1

I think that the perks that come with being in an official factions are relatively strong, and they are there because of the RP that comes with it. I do not believe that it would be realistic for someone to wake up, go to a mechanic shop, start working on cars, just for an hour later to put on their judge robes adjudicate a case, then go to central MD, clock in as a paramedic only to end the day by watching inmates at DOC.

This is what alts are for. One character should not be able to do everything, and you can very well argue its unrealistic.

In response to this, I believe the government faction limit should stay the same but make a separate category for non-gov such as maybe club or just simply non-gov type factions. I think this would be a good way to go about it so then there are three factions categories, Government Criminal Non-Gov and you would be able to be in 2 from either Crim and Gov, and one from non-gov

[Prezeey]

+1 I agree with the changes made to the to add a third slot for non-government factions

[Quincy McTavish]

+1

I agree with you Baxter. There are many situations that would warrant a third or more faction. The idea of a faction that could be under a different category than government would be nice as well due to the number of growing factions that arent government jobs. Think of it as an extracurricular activity post work. Hope this is considered .t

[WinterBlack]

+1 on the extra non government/civillian faction.

[IAmTurtle]

-1. I truly think that you should be making a new character if you want to be part of multiple groups. 

[Bala]

I don't support this.

I feel that while flexibility and choices are great tools on a server, I just cannot see enough instances where this makes sense.

Case and point, my primary faction has always been LSPD but from time to time, I've joined DCC on that character. Looking at that, it doesn't really make much roleplay sense for an LSPD Officer to be driving a cab. The same could apply for Weazel or LSC. Like what, I'm going to hunt bad guys during the day then take a break and go work on an engine?

I feel that the server will always need extra things to do, but I think in terms of us focusing on our characters, doing one thing and focusing on that makes the most sense.

[Dalvichan]

28 minutes ago, Bala said:

I don't support this.

I feel that while flexibility and choices are great tools on a server, I just cannot see enough instances where this makes sense.

Case and point, my primary faction has always been LSPD but from time to time, I've joined DCC on that character. Looking at that, it doesn't really make much roleplay sense for an LSPD Officer to be driving a cab. The same could apply for Weazel or LSC. Like what, I'm going to hunt bad guys during the day then take a break and go work on an engine?

I feel that the server will always need extra things to do, but I think in terms of us focusing on our characters, doing one thing and focusing on that makes the most sense.

Just because it doesn't make RP sense for YOUR character, doesn't mean it isn't beneficial to others. There are many people with RP backgrounds and legitimate reasons to be in multiple factions. There area already currently players who are affected by this issue, being in two factions already and participating in a third (two jobs, one hobby). 

Again, it may not be beneficial to you or your RP, but others' ability to expand their characters RP'ly in whatever way they wish (and, not to mention, in no way affecting you) shouldn't be hindered because you're not intersted.

[Speed Racer]

1 hour ago, IAmTurtle said:

-1. I truly think that you should be making a new character if you want to be part of multiple groups. 

 

25 minutes ago, Bala said:

I don't support this.

I feel that while flexibility and choices are great tools on a server, I just cannot see enough instances where this makes sense.

Case and point, my primary faction has always been LSPD but from time to time, I've joined DCC on that character. Looking at that, it doesn't really make much roleplay sense for an LSPD Officer to be driving a cab. The same could apply for Weazel or LSC. Like what, I'm going to hunt bad guys during the day then take a break and go work on an engine?

I feel that the server will always need extra things to do, but I think in terms of us focusing on our characters, doing one thing and focusing on that makes the most sense.

Both of these just come off as supporting 1-dimensional characters. It makes sense to me that PD players don't see the need for this because PD consumes so much of your character's time for any kind of progress. As a high command member of LSC AND a member of the business licensing bureau, I am unable to join a hobby faction like Burnout or LSMC, or in my unique case, will have to choose to drop one of these two jobs if the faction that I'm working on making official gets there. How do you justify an IC reason to quit a job when it's literally just because the script prevents me from being in more than 2 F4 menus?

Characters shouldn't be limited to just 1 core drive and deserve to have fun on the side while also indulging in their core drives. 

[Bala]

It's a little asinine to assume that my comment is supporting 1 dimensional characters. When I think of this suggestion, the phrase 'jack of all trades, master of none' springs to mind. My experience has taught me that trying to do multiple things at once limits your performance in one specific area. 

You're not limited ooc to 1 core drive, you're limited to two. Just because you are limited in being in two factions does not mean that you cannot role-play with Burnout or LSMC for example, you just couldn't join their faction out of character. It's not the script limiting you from doing that, it's either them or you limiting yourself from doing that.

Perhaps if you didn't occupy a high command role with LSC and a position within Business Licensing for example, you might be able to put more time and effort into your faction. Maybe in trying to get your faction official, you are doing a disservice to LSC or the business licensing. This might not be the case for you, you might be one of the few people that has the balance perfect and I salute you for it if that's the case.

In my opinion though, there are very few combinations of three factions that make sense and the possibility of people joining three factions and not being able to maintain all three to the standard needed increases if you raise the cap.

It's a no from me.

 

[Tharindu_Eranga]

+1

[Percival]

+1 

My main character works in LSPD and in City Hall. 

He would love to work as a mechanic or drive a taxi as well, but he can't.. because the gods forbit it....

Why can't my character develop into a taxi cab driver as a side job while working as a cop and in city hall?

In real life, people who works in government may also have various roles (more than 3 jobs). if their primary employer permits it....

I don't see this as getting out of control as the faction 5 hour requirement can always be enforced like it is currently...

Edited February 20, 2021 by Percival

[Caroline Mathew]

Huge +1

[Ursus]

+1, massively support this