Death RP and new MD /stabilize rule should be changed

[SaltyPython]

Hello everyone - I'm putting this under Rules Suggestions as my suggestion is a hybrid that would change the rules and hopefully add script support as well.

I'm going to preface this with my thoughts on the new /stabilize rule before I move onto my suggestion - as some of you may know, MD has a /stabilize command which takes about 35 seconds to do - after it's completed, the patient's health stops going down. Up until recently, MD was allowed to do /stabilize as soon as they arrived on scene - this changed with the removal of Death RP. Now MD has to inspect a patient's injuries, and then when they respond to the RP you begin doing your /stabilize.

While this is in accordance of the PG rules (you don't force roleplay onto people) this also does not make much sense, which I will get into it right now:

At the moment you cannot roleplay death, and in fact it's considered stalling. The only way you can RP death is if you're scriptly about to die and know that you can't possibly survive. What this means is that as soon as an EMT is on scene, you are going to be /stabilized no matter what as soon as you describe your injuries, even if it's something that would logically lead to death in real life. A way around this is to take a long time to describe your injuries, or purposefully not respond to this... which multiple people do. So, what's even the point of waiting for the patient's answer if they're going to get /stabilized anyways as soon as they DESCRIBE their injuries?

Ever since this change to the dynamic of the /stabilize rule, I have seen multiple situations where people do not respond to RP (specifically in PD scenes) to maliciously and purposefully die to avoid jail time. I know this is against the rules at the moment, but this is yet another thing that we have to keep a lookout on and report, and due to the time people take to die, it could be hard to clip the whole situation (personally, my shadowplay only saves the last 5 minutes which may not be enough to get the whole context).

Do feel free to disagree and bring up your own ideas in this topic if you feel mine is not sufficient, I just strongly feel that something HAS to change.

EDIT: I will say that bringing back Death RP is not really ideal - it was a broken system and there's a reason it was removed - I just hope this suggestion sparks conversation and hopefully some more ideas.

EDIT 2: Due to recent events, I've retracted my original suggestion of providing /slay to MD.

Edited August 18, 2020 by SaltyPython

[CaesarSeizure]

Honestly they should just lower the stabilize timer. Having to RP everything and only then starting the timer is literally just making /stabilize timer = all the RP + 35 seconds. Maybe even remove the timer in general, cause at this point stabilize is treated the same as /cpr, as you need to RP and then do the command. This would also allow enough time for MD to force /stabilize if people are not responding in a timely manner.

If nothing changes, honestly just report people.

Edited August 15, 2020 by CaesarSeizure

[BallinByNature]

Moved to government faction suggestions.

[Swittzy]

The real suggestion here would be, don't make stabilize completely stop you from bleeding out. Make it so it gives you 5-10 minutes of life. This will allow for a lot of the situations to be changed and go faster so it doesn't feel like having two prison sentences.
Also, add Death rp, but make it permanent if someone is roleplaying it. A lot of people seem to stop caring about their life when they know they'll go to jail, which is unrealistic. By making this CK system, it'll promote both roleplay and realism.

[IAmTurtle]

I do think stabilization should be a timer like cpr. that is 3 to 4 times longer then cpr. 

I dont think death rp should ever be added back unless its a complete ck of the character were you loose everything. 

[Jasmine]

I think the bigger issue is the fact people want to die, over being arrested.

Although I understand the points being made here, I don't think MD arriving on scene and using a command that starts to stabilize is the issue at heart.

If poor RP is occurring during stabilize, or PD on scene beforehand are applying /cpr before proper treatment, that can be handled and dealt with. Either by Medics improving RP, or higher standards for PD treatment before /cpr. I do not think death RP should come back, I feel we should just enforce and raise the standard of treatment on scene before /cpr. If RP is not done properly, no cpr command should be done, and if MD shows up late, people will die, and we should be OK with that. Treating 3-4 bullet wounds, takes time, and as a community we should respect that fact, and not get upset if someone you just shot 3-4 times dies on you.

However, the issue of virtually no punishment for death is one I wish would change. Or a reduced punishment for crime. Although I understand that doing crime should have a risk, and therefore "punishment" attached, it does feel excessive at times. I think we forget that criminal RPrs are not actually criminals IRL, they are roleplaying a criminal, nothing more. If they get caught, and go to jail, that is part of the risk of the style of RP they chose, but I am not sure 5-6 hours is a reasonable punishment.

When you combine the sometimes lengthy /prison repercussion, with the lack of death repercussions, you end up with people WANTING to die. Which I feel is very bad for RP.
I feel a higher death penalty could alleviate this. People driving cars recklessly, getting into reckless shootouts, not engaging criminals in a safe way should also come at a risk, if you die, you have a penalty. If that penalty was more in-line with getting caught for a crime, we would not have to "ask for death".

[Victor Einhart]

I do not think making /stabilize simply add more time before you finally expire is a good idea.

The reason why is criminals often get into shootouts with law enforcement, and we find ourselves in a very long scene afterwards if there's a lot of people injured. I'm not going to get into the good and bad of these situations and start an argument, I'm just saying that they happen.

Let's say there are half a dozen injured people on scene.  If those people receive proper treatment and survive there's a process we go through in order to add appropriate charges to each person (or find out they're innocent).  Those people more or less need to stay on scene in order for us to investigate their actions due to the very limited tools we have. By making this a timer instead of a full stabilize it means we'd have to rush through this investigation and ultimately make more mistakes in terms of what that player's involvement was (or even if they were involved at all).

These sorts of investigations are all but impossible to do if everyone is carted off to the hospital due to the nature of GTA RP. We're not able to look at bullet piles near where they went down, if they were on the sidelines, what vehicles they were next to, or anything like that. We'd have to go through recorded footage which would mean you're sitting around idle for even longer than usual and you'd sit in police custody until it was determined what your involvement was. While this is more realistic (in real life if you're a direct suspect in a shooting and were taken into custody literally at the scene of the shooting after being injured), I don't think you realize what this would mean for you from a gameplay perspective.

I know people meme and complain about gun shot residue tests, but this is one of the primary tools we have in terms of on-scene RP to properly figure out what happened in these sorts of situation. If you're carted off to the hospital, that means we have to re-create the entire situation from scratch and this will make already too-long situations where people are screaming at us to hurry up even longer.

It's not ideal, but without proper investigation tools this isn't really feasible. I have no problem if people die before they can be properly treated, but once they are we should be able to do other kinds of RP, too.

Edited January 26, 2021 by Victor Einhart

[Qiang]

13 hours ago, IAmTurtle said:

I dont think death rp should ever be added back unless its a complete ck of the character were you loose everything. 

yeah maybe for PD officers  to start  jumping over injured body's and just press in 1 key and full CPR RP 
Is written in 1 sec like wtf? most of the shoot out start by PD and to be honest getting sprayed down by heavy guns get injured and somehow people manage to do the surgery on the scene and i don't know how in a server when you are injured you can't use your radio or even you can't talk because is will be non'rp somehow you manage to survive from heavy shout gun wounds. and the new system literally remove the RNG part of the time MD drive to the scene or it is more than 1 injured body but because of the /stabilize cm they all survive 

Edited January 26, 2021 by Qiang

[Harveyyy]

Bringing back DeathRP is a no-no, like jasmine stated above. People prefer to die over going to jail. I would suggest lowering the jail time because being in jail for hours is not entertaining. I know IC actions has IC consequences, but sometimes it gets to a point where an individual kills 10 cops and end up in DOC for 8 hours. At that point, the individual would prefer to kill his character so he don't have to serve 8 hours in DOC, which is breaking the rules. 

My suggestion to that would be making a maximum jail time limit. Giving a limit so no matter how many charges are placed, the jail time limit would be for example 4 hours and nothing more. Because at the end of the day, this is a game, not real life and people want to enjoy their time. 

[Marca]

I do think /stabilize should come first, then RP. The time the animation takes for /stabilize is usually enough to RP treatment. It makes no sense that /cpr is instant, so either /cpr also gets a timer/animation or /stabilize becomes instant after RP.

[DeRose]

14 hours ago, Jasmine said:

I think the bigger issue is the fact people want to die, over being arrested.

As she have mentioned, Most of the criminals prefer to die over being arrested unless they don't want themselves to put into NLR.

There should be some more RP opportunities available in the prison. At the current situation, there is only poker but this new jail is far better than previous one. I would like to see  mining spot again in this prison so that people can do mine and play poker and increase the stamp amount players gets when they gets jailed so that they can get at-least one food, one water and play poker, so they would have atleast 800-1000 stamps. 

If the player have more than 3hrs jailtime then it would be great if they decrease the time.

[Dimja]

2 minutes ago, Devil Neeraj said:

As she have mentioned, Most of the criminals prefer to die over being arrested unless they don't want themselves to put into NLR.

There should be some more RP opportunities available in the prison. At the current situation, there is only poker but this new jail is far better than previous one. I would like to see  mining spot again in this prison so that people can do mine and play poker and increase the stamp amount players gets when they gets jailed so that they can get at-least one food, one water and play poker, so they would have atleast 800-1000 stamps. 

If the player have more than 3hrs jailtime then it would be great if they decrease the time.

Mining is also back in prison.

[Xoza]

With 1.1 now being more stable and responsive to correct damage locations on /analysewounds, remaining health at injury and stabilization success could be based on injury location. This would however, reduce options of injury RP and be more RND.

[Awan]

On 2/4/2021 at 8:33 PM, Xoza said:

With 1.1 now being more stable and responsive to correct damage locations on /analysewounds, remaining health at injury and stabilization success could be based on injury location. This would however, reduce options of injury RP and be more RND.

Well, giving a player the option to roll for a (valid) injury would perhaps be a solution here.
You do not have to force it on players. 

I dislike the amount of broken arm/leg that I see. (Not that I haven't done it myself)
If I know I have the time and feel like it ill ask if it's an open or closed fracture. Or just if it's the right or left arm/leg.
Because just saying arm/leg is so indescriptive and we are a roleplay server being unable to provide even that little detail is just annoying to me.
Although that is not the only thing I dislike on the current implementation.
 

The fact that you can only /cpr after you did the rp means pd/sd has an incentive to rush the rp.
Most certainly if a person is close to death.
Do we really want people to rush it? And the indescriptive injuries could even be a symptom of that. (If you do not want to die but are close to death to get it over with asap)
I don't ever want to see anyone get into ic/ooc trouble for being more elaborate on their injuries or treatment of the injuries. (Because they are trying to roleplay to a higher standard/quality)
But, having to choose between being more elaborate or you/your patient dying is a tough choice and an unwanted consideration for me.
And if you do not get why there is an incentive to rush it well: If you are more elaborate in roleplaying your injuries/treatment you take more time and since you can only cpr after treatment well you have an incentive to get it over with asap.

I do have a suggestion let people cpr before starting treatment but make it % chances to die every so often instead of having a timer.
You could even tie that in with the (optional) random injury system with certain injuries having higher %'s and use a base one for non random injuries.
When cpr is provided you do not get more time the chance is just lowered.
Or a combined system the first X minutes you won't roll for death after you start rolling.
The advantages are that this would remove any and all accusations of stalling. (Once the command is done the % chance changes and stalling does nothing.)
Since you can do the command after getting to the injured person.
It also means that as long as you have only one injured you can take all the time in the world for cpr.
Doing this also removes the advantages of macro's.
Having the first few minutes not roll means people will always at least have a chance to get to you. But it's debateable if you want that or not.
 

It would also mean the only reason to rush rp is because you have multiple injured people. And not rushing the rp just to do the command.
It also gives crims a chance to die. And it would still mean you want a medic on scene and not just bls.

And last but not least just pulling people out of vehicles.
If for example someone has a broken neck improper movement could injure their spinal cord and cause paralysis.
Someone who is unresponsive? It is very difficult to remove an unconscious person from a vehicle and there is a major danger that you could worsen their injuries and injure yourself in the process.
They might want to rp being stuck behind their wheel?

I sometimes feel some people are just on autopilot in regards to medical rp.

 

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Awan
Added the bit about pulling people out of vehicles