Law Enforcement Discussion

[CaesarSeizure]

54 minutes ago, GWXCORE said:

As a higher up in a newer gang, we avoid banks entirely since the most recent changes, as they have made banks, in my opinion, worthless on the risk vs reward slider.

Ye i think the 4h timer was too small, but 16h is too much. You get 1 shot in a day to do it and even then all it takes is for some random guy to try to "talk to the manager" by lockpicking the door. This timer also doesn't allow much in terms of preparation as you can't afford to just wait because someone else will go and trigger it.

One of the best bank robbery setups ive seen was done by dojin, where they pulled PD to the other side of town and then went to rob a bank. The setup was great, but at that point, i don't think the potential rewards match the risk and losses.

[Cyrus Raven]

1 hour ago, Percival said:

I can assure you FearRP and Valuing life is enforced in PD inside and outside.

I'm not talking about something blatant. I am talking about something subconscious.

If you have Person A and Person B in a video game. Person A has just started playing, he is careful with his actions given the lack of gear he has, trying to play things safe. He knows if he dies he will lose what little he has. Meanwhile, Person B has every weapon in the game, he has a stash in his base and if he were to die he wouldn't really care too much, given the minimal loss he would suffer.

When both these players go against someone, they will go in with different mentalities, one will value his items more and thus try and be more careful (as much as possible). While the other player will go into the situation focusing solely on the game-play aspect, with no thought or worries about what he will lose. 

This is what I mean. I'm not sure, if this can be corrected with added context to FearRP rules, but adding the fear of losing something besides their life is what criminals mean when they say then want PD to lose something. 

This would never be an issue in real life, given that there is an actual fear of losing your life, in the game that doesn't really happen. We have FearRP rules to regulate obvious unrealistic actions, but these don't account for subconscious small actions or attitudes that some players might have because they don't really lose anything. 

However, a lot of the suggestions about letting people loot cops or having cops pay for their own guns don't sit well with me either, it doesn't seem like an appropriate solution given the multiple reasons others have stated. Maybe the objective should be to balance the playing field by allowing for easier access to weapons by gangs and criminals, making them focus more on the crimes they commit and the quality of RP and not whether or not they will be broke after one shootout. Just brainstorming at this point.

Edited July 5, 2020 by Kyle White Raven

[TheCactus]

6 hours ago, cmaeron_abduljabar said:

I want to hear from the gang members or leaders if they actually plan their shit. Do you guys just rob banks and if the cops come you shoot them, or do yall plan it out. Because from what I have read, it seems like yall just rob the bank and play TDM until it's over, when there are lots of things that gangs could do to play it more smart. Especially the big ones that have a lot of members in them

By what I hear on gang frequencies it's literally "Who is going in? Who has the drill? Who is staying on the roofs? How many are they? Is it clappable?" *Shootouts starts and they lose*

[ImYanYan]

3 minutes ago, TheCactus said:

By what I hear on gang frequencies it's literally "Who is going in? Who has the drill? Who is staying on the roofs? How many are they? Is it clappable?" *Shootouts starts and they lose* 

Well then if that is the case it's no wonder gangs get fucked by PD whenever they try and robs banks or do anything that involves PD. They don't have a good enough plan. If I were the leader of a gang, I would try to find any problems that I would have if I did, for example, rob a bank, and try to have solutions for those problems. Not only would that make it good for the gangs themselves, I think it would make it interesting for PD, too. Since it isn't the usual shooting that normally happens when gangs do shit like this. Unfortunately, I don't have anybody that would want to join my gang if I ever made one, so hopefully other gang members or leaders see this and change their rob and shoot strategy. I would guarantee that the outcome would be way different.  

[Lewis]

Hello.

We think that the majority of posters on this thread have been civil and sharing their opinions, however, there have been some insinuating that the police is somehow above server rules, and some comment(s) about police being "butthurt" etc. Either way, we feel that this discussion has run its course and I am going to give a short breakdown;
 

• We've got no interest in lowering prison times or inserting a cap. This has been said several times by us on community suggestions, and quite frankly, our stance hasn't changed in regards to this. Prison times for each individual charge on the penal code were lowered, some more significant than others (e.g. murder had almost a 50% decrease). This is to teach that the more severe your actions are, the more severe the IC consequences are going to be. You don't have to turn a Reckless Operation charge to a Felony Evading, or a Grand Theft Auto to an Attempted Murder (or Murder), however, if your character decides to do that, it will also face the harsher consequences. We encourage members to post suggestions about what improvements can be made to the prison to make your STAY more enjoyable, the less action RP they involve, the more interested we'll be to actually push for implementation. 
• We also have no interest in making Police Officers lootable, this is also something that have been covered in several suggestions in the past. Our stance on this hasn't changed. Many roleplay servers these days purposely do not make cops lootable for the sole reason of not making them targets. Police Officers in a first world country do not get robbed in real life, or maybe it has happened once or twice in the past, but it's certainly something very unique - Unfortunately, regardless of what rules we implement, this will happen - and it'll open up an easy and cheap way of obtaining guns (and heavier guns). We have no interest in making this a possibility. 
• In terms of the /pw system that Police Cruisers have, we have brought up potential changes, one which will add ammunition to the guns that they have, and when they run out of ammunition, they will need to refill.
• In terms of budgeting, we feel as if this would be redundant development because although an IC topic, the Government would increase funding for the department to make sure that they remain equipped and can enforce laws in San Andreas. This is also slightly controversial because how do you determine a good police budget in the current environment on the server with mass shootouts everyday? 
• The rules on our server rules apply for Police Officers as much as anyone else. If a Police Officer in a regular police cruiser deliberately rams a vehicle unrealistically, they will should receive the same treatment as anyone else. We've even punished past and current staff members in Law Enforcement factions for performing unrealistic maneuvers. 
• We are not interested in implementing a limit to how many faction members can be in PD or SD at this moment. People seem to forget that this is a 24/7 server with players in various roles. PD/SD is not here to focus on one or two criminals groups, they are here to serve the entire community with Police RP, from civilians at the fishing pier, the mines, to the criminals shooting each other at a drug lab, to the people calling 911 about being lost etc. You also have to take into account that these factions have members from all over the world in various time zones, and who play various hours/week - Due to this inconsistency, they need to ensure that they can staff their factions properly to try and provide most of the server with Police RP, not just one group at the time.
• As for other development suggestions brought up in here, there have been continuous talks about changing and adding more realistic features, however, our sever development is currently focused on criminal and civilian features, and a Police Officer having to refuel their car is not a direct benefit for either group. 

With that being said, if you have any OOC complaints about legal factions that does not pertain to server rules, you should try and resolve it with the relevant faction leadership first. As a last resort, you can always reach out to legal faction management, @Archaeah, @BallinByNature or myself.

- Lewis.