Make officers pay for their equipment & alternative RP

[Ultra3D]

Just now, Bagacius said:

You call it RP?  I could say it's lowest level RP , I agree if I would do something for them or be with different colours or bla bla bla but I was just random and it's not normal ;D

You are alone by your self in gang territory? Think that through.

[Bagacius]

2 minutes ago, Ultra3D said:

You are alone by your self in gang territory? Think that through.

Who told I was in gang territory? I was on simple road

[Ultra3D]

Just now, Bagacius said:

Who told I was in gang territory? I was on simple road

Rp is rp you got caught slippin

[Bagacius]

Just now, Ultra3D said:

Rp is rp you got caught slippin

No it's low levewl RP , for me its not heartattack just sad people do it in gangs and I saw a lot of times they do that. 

[TheCactus]

19 hours ago, sophy16 said:

it's ok if they have more power but not fearing for their lives because they can get all the items back for free is still a problem

Sounds like an OOC issue you can resolve by reporting, instead of nerfing a faction that is supposed to overpower criminals.

[TheCactus]

On 3/19/2020 at 8:50 PM, CallumMontie said:

No, what Osborn said is cops will not be made lootable. Which I fully agree with. 

However cops really need to face at least form form of loss when dying or engaging in unrealistic situations. Currently the funds used to pay their salaries and all items/vehicle are spawned in from thin air creating literally zer sense of loss. 

I'm not sure how I feel on individual officers having to pay a fee, however both the officer and the faction as a whole should face a certain loss. 

What I believe may be a good suggestion is a set weapon budget per month that cannot be adjusted, every time a weapon is taken out with /pw this would use X of the budget. Meaning standard pistols and tazer would still be supplied freely. This would assist in preventing running in and losing weapons such as carbines, smg's, shotguns etc. I also believe there should be a cost for deploying SWAT as the armour they use is of a much higher level than the standard vest. 

At the end of the day its all about realism and balance, the average criminal faces a monetary loss of around 20-30k per death, whereas Law Enforcement loses nothing. 

 

And to address the elephant in the room, PD is not over powered per say, however things have highly fallen out of balance as of late. 

 I think the easiest way to do it is when a cop dies with a heavy weapon on their person, the allowed number of heavy weapons they can to take out decreases and if they keep doing it, at a certain point, they won't be able to take out any for the rest of the week/month (it's the easiest way to script it if I look at how the /pw command works). 

[Marca]

Having to pay for heavy weapons from our own salary is just dumb. You don't get a job, then your boss tells you that you have to buy your own gear, clothes, material, vehicle and fuel. PD also has regulations when heavy weapons can be used, it takes time and dedication. If cops have heavy weapons out, they have IC reasons for it, however criminals do not require such reasons and are free to use whatever, whenever. 

Furthermore, having to hammer the faction treasury when gear is signed out is also pointless. PD is a gov faction, funded by the government. If PD lacks funds, they will simply request more from the gov, from which point, gov will increase taxes on certain things. 

As a final note, criminals can loot the weapons from their fallen comrades and the weapon doesn't really exit circulation. PD would also require a similar script to return the gear from dead officers, so it wouldn't lose money when it's not required or doesn't make sense. Imo, adding in so many things and details is currently not needed and devs should focus more on the criminal update.

[GR_Seb]

I ain't payin shit when I get paid 5k per hour + taxes while I am trying to roleplay in the most hated faction icly.  

Edited March 21, 2020 by Papadakis

[Denza]

1 hour ago, Papadakis said:

I ain't payin shit when I get paid 5k per hour + taxes while I am trying to roleplay in the most hated faction icly.  

shit, OOC'ly, too

[JakeInnit_]

On 3/20/2020 at 1:00 PM, TheCactus said:

 I think the easiest way to do it is when a cop dies with a heavy weapon on their person, the allowed number of heavy weapons they can to take out decreases and if they keep doing it, at a certain point, they won't be able to take out any for the rest of the week/month (it's the easiest way to script it if I look at how the /pw command works). 

I like this

[Jestar723]

I disagree with the idea of this entire thread. PD may be overpowered because were are not losing anything on death, that's true. But on any given day we are outnumbered by at least 10 to 1. Crim RP has gotten so bad that we need to call for backup anytime we get into a situation with someone from Zeta simply because we know if another Zeta drives by, they're calling for people to come "free" the suspect. There has not been a time ever that I have been online when we have had more than 25 units deployed, and that's including SD. Gangs outnumber LEO, plain and simple. SWAT and POIII+ are the only ones allowed to use heavy weapons minus the shotgun which is useless at longer range. Crims are able to buy a heavy and use it at their own discretion knowing that it is possible to lose it. I think heavys really should only be used when absolutely necessary and should be picked up from an armory of sorts after a shootout has already begun. PD is always in danger which is pretty unrealistic to me. I've never once seen a SWAT vehicle driving around just on regular patrol because they know something is bound to go down.

[Actualbears]

fucking lmao with the price of food, drinks and buying stuff in general along with making 5k an hour. there's no way in hell I'm going to cough up 20K+ to deploy an assault rifle or a shotgun and have to explain over the radio why I can't join the firefight with my combat pistol due to the lack of a heavy of my own. 

even more when we're playing one of the most reported against factions and universally hated IC'ly and OOC'ly that when a new player sees will usually try to DM us let alone veteran criminals

Edited March 22, 2020 by Actualbears

[Guest]

just unfair mate. not only do criminals lose their items, but they also go into prison pay insane prison fines + do prison times. i don't get how one can't see this huge unfairness on this server hello? i just lost weapons, general items such as bags, 25k fines & 3 hours prison time, like what? what did the officer lose that i shot? nothing legit maybe a gps & radio. balance this seriously

[Marca]

23 minutes ago, sophy16 said:

just unfair mate. not only do criminals lose their items, but they also go into prison pay insane prison fines + do prison times. i don't get how one can't see this huge unfairness on this server hello? i just lost weapons, general items such as bags, 25k fines & 3 hours prison time, like what? what did the officer lose that i shot? nothing legit maybe a gps & radio. balance this seriously

Could've just taken the L and not shoot a cop, which would give you way less jail time and fines. I only see a few people that are smart enough to surrender and do the time instead of resisting and making it way worse. In the end it's your choice if you want to make things harder for yourself.

PD should also not be seen as the enemy, but a neutral faction what will respond to your (unlawful)actions. Don't blame a faction for doing its job. Play smarter.

[moment]

58 minutes ago, Actualbears said:

fucking lmao with the price of food, drinks and buying stuff in general along with making 5k an hour. there's no way in hell I'm going to cough up 20K+ to deploy an assault rifle or a shotgun and have to explain over the radio why I can't join the firefight with my combat pistol due to the lack of a heavy of my own. 

even more when we're playing one of the most reported against factions and universally hated IC'ly and OOC'ly that when a new player sees will usually try to DM us let alone veteran criminals

Oh so you need a big boy gun to take down someone? a .50 is more than enough to accommodate you. Free .50s is understandable but a free heavy that's a big no no.

Edited March 22, 2020 by PhenomenalX

[Actualbears]

11 minutes ago, PhenomenalX said:

Oh so you need a big boy gun to take down someone? a .50 is more than enough to accommodate you. Free .50s is understandable but a free heavy that's a big no no.

understanding of how the police department works is we're authorized to take out heavies under specific circumstances. Not to mention PO3's+ and SWAT's are the only people who really stand a chance of winning a gunfight with the more experienced gang members. 

Edited March 22, 2020 by Actualbears

[Dimitriy_Alexander]

16 hours ago, Actualbears said:

understanding of how the police department works is we're authorized to take out heavies under specific circumstances. Not to mention PO3's+ and SWAT's are the only people who really stand a chance of winning a gunfight with the more experienced gang members. 

I see cops patrolling with carbines, I have video proof if you don't believe me. that is just wrong man.

[flow]

23 minutes ago, Dimitriy_Alexander said:

I see cops patrolling with carbines, I have video proof if you don't believe me. that is just wrong man.

What is wrong is that people shoot at cops for minor tickets and 10 minute jail sentences. You have to keep in mind, the development of PD and SD was never ahead of crim rp, it has always and will always be a reaction. PD and SD did not start patrolling with heavier equipment because they could, but they did so because the number of trigger happy people shooting at us went up and is sky high. You can currently not even ask someone to clear the road without having abuse thrown at you and being circled by multiple gang members looking to disable you. PD and SD won't ever have to pay for weapons out of pocket because they are government funded, and thus the government will keep providing funds for what is essential to battle crime. The crime rate on this server is ridiculously high, we barely scratch the surface with our current possibilities. I'd go as far and say that we don't even counter act more than 30% of crime that is happening which is a very bad statistic. People go on and on about how law enforcement factions don't lose anything which is not the case. We lose out on roleplay, character progression and valuable time spent not being forced into shootouts because someone decided it's a good idea to fight a ticket with a pistol. We chose different paths of roleplay, some of us went into law enforcement and some into gang rp, you made that choice and so did I. We both knew what we're getting into. The only thing this will achieve is weakening PD and SD which quite frankly, is only in the interest of people who would like a roleplay server with lesser standards and a gang simulator. All current law enforcement factions are not powerful enough for the amount of crime we have to deal with. So no, these suggestions have been made before and for good reason, have always been denied.

[Pegasus_]

On 3/19/2020 at 9:50 PM, CallumMontie said:

No, what Osborn said is cops will not be made lootable. Which I fully agree with. 

However cops really need to face at least form form of loss when dying or engaging in unrealistic situations. Currently the funds used to pay their salaries and all items/vehicle are spawned in from thin air creating literally zer sense of loss. 

I'm not sure how I feel on individual officers having to pay a fee, however both the officer and the faction as a whole should face a certain loss. 

What I believe may be a good suggestion is a set weapon budget per month that cannot be adjusted, every time a weapon is taken out with /pw this would use X of the budget. Meaning standard pistols and tazer would still be supplied freely. This would assist in preventing running in and losing weapons such as carbines, smg's, shotguns etc. I also believe there should be a cost for deploying SWAT as the armour they use is of a much higher level than the standard vest. 

At the end of the day its all about realism and balance, the average criminal faces a monetary loss of around 20-30k per death, whereas Law Enforcement loses nothing. 

 

And to address the elephant in the room, PD is not over powered per say, however things have highly fallen out of balance as of late. 

If you want them to have a set budget where items will deduct x amount of money when being withdrawn, then it should cancel out when they put the items back in.

[Pegasus_]

Maybe bullets can have another value that will be deducted when you put the weapon back, cause those are spent but the weapons are still there. Otherwise you'd just end up with them running out of funds just for taking the weapons out for those that don't get used.

[MistNinja]

On 3/23/2020 at 7:54 PM, CallumMontie said:

Piecing it all together from the last couple replies:

Each gun could have a stock cost e.g. An SMG could cost 8k to take out from /pw and will refund 8k when returbed to the /pw. 8k is significantly cheaper than the standard import price for criminals to acquire an SMG. 

Each guns ammo would also have a cost, e.g. $50 per smg bullet, (costs $65 for crim import) 

This would allow a cost to be managed per risk taken and ammo usage, ammo obviously being at greater disposal than a gun itself. 

From this it would cost the treasury:

8000 [smg] + 7500 [150 smg ammo] 

£15,500 for taking out an SMG. 

A lot less than the value of what a criminal carries, however still adds to the risk of the Faction taking a loss. 

^ devs pls read that, it makes perfect sense?

[TheCactus]

On 3/23/2020 at 7:54 PM, CallumMontie said:

Piecing it all together from the last couple replies:

Each gun could have a stock cost e.g. An SMG could cost 8k to take out from /pw and will refund 8k when returbed to the /pw. 8k is significantly cheaper than the standard import price for criminals to acquire an SMG. 

Each guns ammo would also have a cost, e.g. $50 per smg bullet, (costs $65 for crim import) 

This would allow a cost to be managed per risk taken and ammo usage, ammo obviously being at greater disposal than a gun itself. 

From this it would cost the treasury:

8000 [smg] + 7500 [150 smg ammo] 

£15,500 for taking out an SMG. 

A lot less than the value of what a criminal carries, however still adds to the risk of the Faction taking a loss. 

At this time, when your game crashes, you lose your heavy weapons (and kevlar while in plain clothes) so unless they fix it in someway, it is not doable.

[MrSilky]

Why would a police officer suffer personal loss when on shift when robbed/killed?

This makes no sense whatsoever and comparing an officer's death to a criminal's is obscene.

Look at the above image. Do you see a single item either of those officers would have paid for themselves or is not provided by their government funded workplace?

 

Talking about faction treasury loss makes sense to a limit. I agree that there should be a cost to withdraw weapons and a refund for returning and I do hope that one day it is implemented. However, I feel that the government should receive all the money from tickets, charges, taxes etc to help with funding this. But with this, another complaint will be made later down the line (if implemented) that criminals are being overcharged for their crimes and similar arguments.

I think we just need to move away from the mentality of losing and focus back on roleplay. RPly it makes sense for PD to have stockpiles of weapons and be "overpowered". However, it is actually the other way round. Large gangs can roam the city displaying public hostility with little to no repercussions and sometimes lose a heavy weapon for engaging in something they misjudged. If we want to focus on PD/SD taking financial losses for weapons/equipment then we also need to focus on the realism of large gangs convoying through the city fearless of cops displaying active public hostility.

[alexalex303]

2 hours ago, MrSilky said:

Talking about faction treasury loss makes sense to a limit. I agree that there should be a cost to withdraw weapons and a refund for returning and I do hope that one day it is implemented. However, I feel that the government should receive all the money from tickets, charges, taxes etc to help with funding this. But with this, another complaint will be made later down the line (if implemented) that criminals are being overcharged for their crimes and similar arguments.

I think we just need to move away from the mentality of losing and focus back on roleplay. RPly it makes sense for PD to have stockpiles of weapons and be "overpowered". However, it is actually the other way round. Large gangs can roam the city displaying public hostility with little to no repercussions and sometimes lose a heavy weapon for engaging in something they misjudged. If we want to focus on PD/SD taking financial losses for weapons/equipment then we also need to focus on the realism of large gangs convoying through the city fearless of cops displaying active public hostility.

If we're moving away from the mentality of losing and focusing on roleplay, why not add /pw for official factions at their HQs. Realistically well established gangs would be able to arm themselves, and this would allow both sides to focus on RP and not worry about crippling losses, not just one side.

[Jellay]

@MrSilky, 
If we would pass further than any financial losses on both the funding side and the personal side of each and every cop. How would you as a cop personally feel about having a limited amount of heavies available. Lets say for example you have 1000 heavies an OOC month ( This is a random selected number, since I have no clue how many get taken out every month ). Every time someone takes it out, it reduces the total amount of available heavies. If they put it back in the armory it increases the availability with 1 again. Would you think this is fair as a cop? So we are moving past the financial loss, since I don't think that any criminal cares about the treasury of PD or the salary that a cadet gets. 

What needs to be scriptly changed would be that someone has to get a heavy from the Armory and Mission Row or Sherrifs Department, and that they are only available to get them from /pw in the car if they did. Once you die as a cop, that number goes down with 1 and criminals can't loot it. I do believe this would benefit the criminals standpoint, and not greatly effect the individuals within PD. Knowing that you have a limited amount of heavies, might impact the times it is used. Like you mentioned before with that picture, realistically PD does have stocked up guns but never unlimited

 

- Jellay

Edited March 28, 2020 by Jellay