Police are horrible and people roaming city in masks is not roleplay

[veryverysadguy]

they barley ever come to 911 calls. sometimes I play as a private investigator and monitor illegal activity. Also i always get robbed every time I go into a clothes store im robbed, almost everytime I go to an atm machine i'm robbed unless i go to bank, almost everytime i do other stuff i'm robbed there is no actual police proper patrols except just aimlessly driving around the city it feels like. I see lots of police often at the police station. I also see people just freely roam the city with masks on I don't see how that is roleplay anyone roaming the city with a mask on where I live is gonna get stopped by the police. I already see where this is going an honest living man in the city is going to have to turn to drastic measures and constantly play bait for 2 of my homies to just stalk me and it's gonna be constant battles like Vietnam can't even play by myself.

[Victor Einhart]

What do you propose to change about police to fix the problem?

[veryverysadguy]

I really don't know man to be honest something needs to be done. there needs to be an option to join the military and martial law maybe if a certain amount of crimes are made. if not that maybe better structure in the police force more supervisors, planned task forces and meetings etc. it feels very unorganized I don't know how they function because I have not played as an officer yet but the entire city feels like total anarchy yes it's gta v but its suppose to be role play. if people can just roam the city at will with masks and gangs constantly controlling drug labs and robbing people in the city etc. there needs to be martial law raids search warrants of peoples houses maybe use of swat teams if there is any with armored trucks etc etc. for doing search warrants etc. drug task force i havent seen any of this

Edited February 2, 2020 by veryverysadguy
forgot about swat teams

[KINGRumz3]

-1 I don't really understand your point, but we already have law enforcement that is pretty solid in the server. We already have "SWAT" like teams in PD and SD. Also, adding in a military for Los Santos would only be really unrealistic. Military operations would first of all be really hard to make and really expensive in real life. If these operations happened every day it wouldn't be fun for criminals. IRL the military would not respond to regular crime in the city because that's what the police are for. Stopping these crimes would make the server a lot less fun for law enforcement like me since we run off of them. Multiple factions revolve upon gangs, criminal activity, etc. These made chop shops, drug labs, heavy weapons, and more were made to be used by criminals, so there is no reason why people should stop their crimes throughout the city.

[Msato]

This issue seems to be based on a personal poor experience and not a proper analysis of the current situation. 

Currently there is a large police presence throughout the main timezones, of which you may be in a lower presence timezone. Each of the officer does more than a good job in my opinion at targeting crime, sometimes even a little too much. 

The whole "martial law" existed under the form of "Gang Suppression Checks" which turned out to do the opposite of their goal, Instead increasing serious criminal activity such as mass shootouts. This was decided to be dropped as a resolution to this due to said actions and the impact it was having upon criminal roleplay as far as I'm aware. 

There are currently already task forces within the police department such as IB and its sub divisions that are specifically targeted to handling organised crime. Along with the raids and warrant hunting, which already exists, in fact their was a high profile house raid last night, followed by outstanding warrant hunting by a task force.

The issue that you run into come from petty criminals who have a short life span as they are here for no rp reason other than being "jack boys". As a note the moment you rp'd being a private investigator who works against criminals, you put yourself in this line of fire. 

The larger and well founded gangs in the server rarely run rampant and rob civilians, talking for my faction we have rules in place to avoid impacting civilian rp such as not targeting commonly known civilian areas and civilians themselves, unless provoked of course. 

This issue comes down to no specific side of roleplay being at the issue, but instead is an overall issue that is formed by many areas of concern, as of which are already in development to resolve. 

Edited February 3, 2020 by CallumMontie

[alexalex303]

The biggest issue for civilians right now in the server are not the big gangs.

Without wanting to speak for other gangs, I know that for example WCA has a policy of not robbing random people, unless provoked or at a crime area (drug lab, chop shop). 

The LSPD does a good enough job of enforcing the law, sometimes too good, we recently came out of a war and I can tell you that 9 out of 10 shootouts ended with a police response.

The issue, like Montie stated, is groups of random people who's only goal on this server is to rob people, anyone, and everyone. 

[Azphelle]

Everyone here pretty much summed it up. 

As exPD, I would always patrol high risk areas such as clothing stores, the foundry etc. No one just drives around aimlessly. 

As a Rook, I can confirm like the other gangs mentioned, we never target civilian workers at all unless in a crime zone (chop shop, labs etc) and leave most randoms alone unless provoked. 

I understand your frustration, but RPly making some connections with a few gang members or PD always helps. You don't have to turn to crime, just know some people who can do it for you if you require some revenge

[CaesarSeizure]

27 minutes ago, Azphelle said:

I understand your frustration, but RPly making some connections with a few gang members or PD always helps. You don't have to turn to crime, just know some people who can do it for you if you require some revenge

I think this is a big point that some people dont take into account - who you know and who knows you.

You dont have to join a gang or a gov job, but you can try to join any of the legal jobs, meet some people in a more closed environment. Through these jobs you will meet people who are in gang, who are in gov jobs and with that you are less likely to be targeted than if you are completely alone. 

[Marca]

I was in PD and there is a lot of effort those people put into the faction, new or old. Most of your daytime public robberies will happen because of hood rats, doing it mostly "because i am crim" and not so much for the RP. It impacts civRP severely and makes it almost unplayable, that is why you will often see people chill in NCZ's and not all around the city. Sure you can hang out with your friends somewhere public during the day, but it just takes 1 person that wasn't even provoked, with a gun to bring that to a halt. Heck even officers can get jumped on like that. That is because the server rules allow it, which they shouldn't. 

Hopefully something will change, because this issue is constantly brought up very often and kills out any normal civRP.

[Jasmine]

Although I agree with most of what is being said here, and I also agree the OP was venting about a poor player experience of being new to the city and not taking appropriate precautions to avoid robberies. Something that he will likely learn to do with IC knowledge and experience.

I do have a few suggestions that I think would improve PD RP. As I do NOT think PD RP is excellent, it is good, and certainly there are some amazing PD RPrs, there are some trends I see what tend to negatively effect my RP experience as a civilian:

1) Stop having 3, 4, or 10 cruisers flying through the city all chasing one comet retro or other fast sports cars....or anyone for that matter.
- This is so unrealistic and put civilians in danger. You do not see cop chases like this often IRL. Sometimes you see many cruisers chasing 1 car up a highway, but you will never see 6-7 cruisers flying through city streets after a single car.
- There is a limited number of PD, and as such when every one of them chases 1 car, other criminals are free to have a party and go looting civilians. I have literally watched civilians see a chase, and say out loud "cool they'll be busy a while, let go robbing". 

2) Stop being complete jerks to civilians.
- I get you are RPing, but why does it seem the majority of cops all RP being rude cops? Not all cops act this way to civilians.
- It is frustrating being a civilian, and calling PD, to then be threatened to be arrested because you are upset about being robbed.
- Attempt to collect evidence, or try to get the stolen property back. (or at least pretend to!) IRL, if I make a report of being robbed or carjacked, their is zero chance the officer is gonna just say "yo you got evidence? no? then I'm out aint shit I can do." PD should be just as eager (at least RPly) to catch these guys as the civilian. At least get a description, take a report, and call it in. Who knows? you might even catch them. 
- Again, there are some really cool, amazing PD RPrs out there, but I think a bit of culture change could go a long way in making all of them amazing.

3) Talk to civilians, stop slowly rolling by to search me in your MDC and drive off.
- This doesn't happen IRL. PD in big cities (I lived in NYC 5 years) are actually very personable to civilians in the streets. It is common to see an officer or two at an intersection just talking to civilians. They do it to build rapport, and to gain information.
- Not everyone on the server is a criminal. Just because I stop at a store with a friend doesn't mean we are going to rob it. Stop and RP having a coffee and talk to them. Maybe they can tell you about the robbers who just left there if you asked?

That's it for now. I am sure I can come up with more, but those are the ones I see a lot which bother me. I do agree with the OP, that calling PD rarely results in getting my car back, or getting the robbers arrested. Unfortunately, I call 911, but then immediately call my gang friends, who are much better at retrieving stolen property and catching up to criminal. They also just seem to care more about protecting civilians who have friendly ties with them. It really shouldn't be this way, but it is. 

[TonyRizzo]

On 2/4/2020 at 9:25 AM, Jasmine said:

3) Talk to civilians, stop slowly rolling by to search me in your MDC and drive off.
- This doesn't happen IRL. PD in big cities (I lived in NYC 5 years) are actually very personable to civilians in the streets. It is common to see an officer or two at an intersection just talking to civilians. They do it to build rapport, and to gain information.

jesus yes please this, its so annoying to just be standing around and to see the MDC /ame come up, because nine times out of ten it just puts you on edge, even if you aren't doing anything wrong

On 2/4/2020 at 9:25 AM, Jasmine said:

- Not everyone on the server is a criminal. Just because I stop at a store with a friend doesn't mean we are going to rob it. Stop and RP having a coffee and talk to them. Maybe they can tell you about the robbers who just left there if you asked?

GOD yes thank you. Sure I play a criminal character, but I swear to god it happens constantly where I go in to get something to eat, and a cruiser just sits out front waiting to see what I do. Then when I go outside with food in hand it drives off, like come on

[HobGoblin]

On 2/4/2020 at 5:25 PM, Jasmine said:

2) Stop being complete jerks to civilians.

- I get you are RPing, but why does it seem the majority of cops all RP being rude cops? Not all cops act this way to civilians.
- It is frustrating being a civilian, and calling PD, to then be threatened to be arrested because you are upset about being robbed.
- Attempt to collect evidence, or try to get the stolen property back. (or at least pretend to!) IRL, if I make a report of being robbed or carjacked, their is zero chance the officer is gonna just say "yo you got evidence? no? then I'm out aint shit I can do." PD should be just as eager (at least RPly) to catch these guys as the civilian. At least get a description, take a report, and call it in. Who knows? you might even catch them. 
- Again, there are some really cool, amazing PD RPrs out there, but I think a bit of culture change could go a long way in making all of them amazing.

Most cops aren’t rude to civilians. So I’m not sure where this has come from.  Also no cop threatens to arrest you because you have been robbed. If you ring the police and are wanted them you have to expect to be arrested. We don’t just go to 911 calls and threaten to arrest them.  Also most cops do get a description of the person who robbed you and will make other officers aware and to be looking for them. But people think just because they can identify someone we can add charges for robbery ect. When we can’t we need some sort of proof or something to link them items belonging to you. (I’m a cop on one of my characters and I feel like you have had one bad experience)

 

also about chasing cars, is it realistic to have that many super cars in the city? And is it realistic for them to be going 200+ in a built up area?

[Azphelle]

Biggest issue I have is being forcibly searched and arrested just for being in the vicinity of a crime eventhough I would not be part of it. No investigation, no questioning, no rights, just auto guilty by proxy, arrested, searched and thrown in MR for an unlicensed forearm. 

Being pulled over for a 10-66 when I've done NOTHING aside from maybe speed a little, ask why I'm being pulled over and subsequently arrested and the response? Verbatim "investigative reasons" which lo and behold, no investigation happened. They search me, my friend and the car for no valid reason aside from being in a gang which should be CONFIRMED with evidence instead of assuming. 

Cops act as judge and jury and while I understand there is neither to work with in the game, they still need to act like officers with probable cause, foolproof evidence and fairness instead of focusing on always 'getting a win'. 

I didn't understand why criminals always complained about corrupt cops and thought they were just whining because they lost. Now, after seeing both sides I really so understand why criminals feel that way and it's just sad. 

[HobGoblin]

They always have a reason to do the things they do. But all that what you said @Azphelle seams like IC issues

[CaesarSeizure]

On 2/4/2020 at 7:25 PM, Jasmine said:

1) Stop having 3, 4, or 10 cruisers flying through the city all chasing one comet retro or other fast sports cars....or anyone for that matter.
- This is so unrealistic and put civilians in danger. You do not see cop chases like this often IRL. Sometimes you see many cruisers chasing 1 car up a highway, but you will never see 6-7 cruisers flying through city streets after a single car.
- There is a limited number of PD, and as such when every one of them chases 1 car, other criminals are free to have a party and go looting civilians. I have literally watched civilians see a chase, and say out loud "cool they'll be busy a while, let go robbing". 

Well you dont get many super car chases IRL as well, but we have to take a lot of things into consideration. Is the car fast - if yes, we need more units to be able to keep up if someone crashes or to have certain cruisers keep up in the city, while others keep up on straights. If the car is gang affiliated - if yes and especially if it is a big gang, you need more units because criminals will set up ambushes or will arrive to the scene of the arrest to help their ally.

We do drop responses if the car is not a high risk, but we cant just have 2 cars following an individual for the reasons above and more. (Also sometimes the city is dead quiet, so people do want to have something to do as well - at the end, this is not real life and people want to have fun in a game).

On 2/4/2020 at 7:25 PM, Jasmine said:

2) Stop being complete jerks to civilians.
- I get you are RPing, but why does it seem the majority of cops all RP being rude cops? Not all cops act this way to civilians.
- It is frustrating being a civilian, and calling PD, to then be threatened to be arrested because you are upset about being robbed.
- Attempt to collect evidence, or try to get the stolen property back. (or at least pretend to!) IRL, if I make a report of being robbed or carjacked, their is zero chance the officer is gonna just say "yo you got evidence? no? then I'm out aint shit I can do." PD should be just as eager (at least RPly) to catch these guys as the civilian. At least get a description, take a report, and call it in. Who knows? you might even catch them. 
- Again, there are some really cool, amazing PD RPrs out there, but I think a bit of culture change could go a long way in making all of them amazing.

It sucks that that happens, while most members of PD i have met are ok, there will be some people that will be not so. Main thing to do in these situations is to get their badge numbers and report them. As this is a big IC thing, without complaints coming in, everything will look ok and no changes can happen.

Regarding the stolen stuff, its a mixed bag, we put out BOLOs for stolen vehicles but the city is big and if they go to chop, not much we can do. Regarding items it is even more difficult, as most items dont have any unique features, so only guns are an easier thing to return. Personally, i will try to get items back and even a couple of days ago, managed to do just that, but most of the time, the items are lost.

On 2/4/2020 at 7:25 PM, Jasmine said:

3) Talk to civilians, stop slowly rolling by to search me in your MDC and drive off.
- This doesn't happen IRL. PD in big cities (I lived in NYC 5 years) are actually very personable to civilians in the streets. It is common to see an officer or two at an intersection just talking to civilians. They do it to build rapport, and to gain information.
- Not everyone on the server is a criminal. Just because I stop at a store with a friend doesn't mean we are going to rob it. Stop and RP having a coffee and talk to them. Maybe they can tell you about the robbers who just left there if you asked?

I really dislike the comparisons to how IRL police work vs how they are in game. IRL you also don't have so many criminals per civilians either, so it is what it is.

 

On 2/4/2020 at 7:25 PM, Jasmine said:

That's it for now. I am sure I can come up with more, but those are the ones I see a lot which bother me. I do agree with the OP, that calling PD rarely results in getting my car back, or getting the robbers arrested. Unfortunately, I call 911, but then immediately call my gang friends, who are much better at retrieving stolen property and catching up to criminal. They also just seem to care more about protecting civilians who have friendly ties with them. It really shouldn't be this way, but it is. 

To the last point, criminals do not need evidence and do not have rules for situations like that. PD cant just go searching every green car (sorry WCA, just like the green) because a person says he was robbed by a group of green guys.

Here are 2 examples of information provided and you be the judge of what is easier to follow.

- 2 guys, 1 had shotgun, 1 had a pistol. 1 wearing grey, 1 wearing black. Black and blue masks. Both had bags. Driving a dark grey SUV with tinted windows.

vs

- Guys on a hakuchou with clown masks.

Sometimes we are limited with the information we are provided. We cant just go around stopping every single guy that has a hakuchou or a clown mask. The first description however, landed the individuals extra time in jail and some items were recovered and returned. But at the end of the day, we rely on evidence to be able to do something, criminals do not.

 

I'm not saying PD or SD are perfect, but these concerns need to be brought up IC, either through IA reports or reaching out to higher ups. If you are unhappy how an officer is handling a situation, ask for a supervisor to show up. There are ways to deal with this ICly, if it is not gonna be addressed ICly and these arent breaching the server rules, no changes will happen because no issues will be visible.

[SteveD]

On 2/4/2020 at 5:25 PM, Jasmine said:

2) Stop being complete jerks to civilians.
- I get you are RPing, but why does it seem the majority of cops all RP being rude cops? Not all cops act this way to civilians.
- It is frustrating being a civilian, and calling PD, to then be threatened to be arrested because you are upset about being robbed.
- Attempt to collect evidence, or try to get the stolen property back. (or at least pretend to!) IRL, if I make a report of being robbed or carjacked, their is zero chance the officer is gonna just say "yo you got evidence? no? then I'm out aint shit I can do." PD should be just as eager (at least RPly) to catch these guys as the civilian. At least get a description, take a report, and call it in. Who knows? you might even catch them. 
- Again, there are some really cool, amazing PD RPrs out there, but I think a bit of culture change could go a long way in making all of them amazing.

Personally I try to do this as often as possible, and fair point on the "you got evidence?" point, maybe we should be more weary of this! I think i'll always take a positive outlook on it from now on from this :D 

I generally visit the bank for a chat for example when in need of refreshments, and do try to talk, but quite often than not, criminals just wear masks and call us pigs when we try. And then when we ask them to take their masks off, they get more bitchy. So, it's not all on us!

On 2/4/2020 at 5:25 PM, Jasmine said:

1) Stop having 3, 4, or 10 cruisers flying through the city all chasing one comet retro or other fast sports cars....or anyone for that matter.
- This is so unrealistic and put civilians in danger. You do not see cop chases like this often IRL. Sometimes you see many cruisers chasing 1 car up a highway, but you will never see 6-7 cruisers flying through city streets after a single car.

Actually, this is quite common in Los Angeles for example, where the city is based off. Quite a number of police / news videos around of this as well! From my stand point at least, I dont drive around aimlessly, I do patrol the major known areas and common crime areas, but quite often, we get bored like anybody else! A pursuit is our way of fun, and brings about the most RolePlay for us due to negative attitudes from civilians.

We do try quite often to not have the whole force responding, and supervisors do often clear units from TAC pursuits when there are enough cruisers in the pursuit line. 

Community outreach should be better from us, but "civilians" or "criminals" need to also play a part in making this RP more enjoyable!

[Azphelle]

On 2/7/2020 at 10:12 AM, HobGoblin said:

They always have a reason to do the things they do. But all that what you said @Azphelle seams like IC issues

This whole topic is about IC issues and how to improve them. 

And yes, the reason is usually profiling or wanting a win. 

[HobGoblin]

43 minutes ago, Azphelle said:

This whole topic is about IC issues and how to improve them. 

And yes, the reason is usually profiling or wanting a win. 

The police obviously want to catch the criminals. That’s there job. And the crimes obviously want to get away. So there both going to try to do it.  Nothing about “winning”

[Kazjii]

Just to add, if PD work is anything in the realm similar to MD work, we have many calls that we have to prioritize. If we are stacked 7 calls with only 3 units, then we can only hope that the patient can stick it out until we get to their call. PLUS, as I saw someone mention earlier in regards to having 4-10 cops chasing a car in a pursuit being unrealistic, they are wrong. In IRL, cops use the power of overwhelming the guy in the pursuit with numbers. Pursuits will take priority and therefore will host as many units as possible to keep an eye for the car.

[Xoza]

On 2/10/2020 at 1:21 PM, Noah Richards said:

Just to add, if PD work is anything in the realm similar to MD work, we have many calls that we have to prioritize. If we are stacked 7 calls with only 3 units, then we can only hope that the patient can stick it out until we get to their call. PLUS, as I saw someone mention earlier in regards to having 4-10 cops chasing a car in a pursuit being unrealistic, they are wrong. In IRL, cops use the power of overwhelming the guy in the pursuit with numbers. Pursuits will take priority and therefore will host as many units as possible to keep an eye for the car.

Don't forget the PD department call that is 'higher priority' then all those others.

Love you Jasmine, going to respond to this.

On 2/4/2020 at 10:25 AM, Jasmine said:

Although I agree with most of what is being said here, and I also agree the OP was venting about a poor player experience of being new to the city and not taking appropriate precautions to avoid robberies. Something that he will likely learn to do with IC knowledge and experience.

I do have a few suggestions that I think would improve PD RP. As I do NOT think PD RP is excellent, it is good, and certainly there are some amazing PD RPrs, there are some trends I see what tend to negatively effect my RP experience as a civilian:

Responses from my own perspective of course, which could be vastly different from other officers.

1. Stop having 3, 4, or 10 cruisers flying through the city all chasing one comet retro - Agreed, we're working on improving this.
2. Stop being complete jerks to civilians. - Eh, when a citizen runs up and says. "I have something important." and it's not. "I want to report a crime." and they have no evidence. "I want __________" and we have no legal obligation or means to give it to you, our conversation will most likely be short. But, when they're asked to file a crime report or IA report... they can't be bothered. We can put out BOLO's, question people, but it's limited what more we can do. Our investigations personnel and training in police investigative practices have improved, but it does depend on the officer and the activities going on at that time.
3. Talk to civilians, stop slowly rolling by to search me in your MDC and drive off. - Personally unless I have a reason to talk to you, I don't usually bother unless it gives me an advantage to what I'm looking for. Specifically if I'm looking for a car. Every time I talk to most people, they get suspicious, defensive or disrespectful, which I don't  have the time for. It isn't about being personable for me, but using the time I have wisely. I would love to do more for the citizens of the city off duty and have been focusing on doing so, but when I'm on duty, I have different goals, yes, I can be friendly and reasonable, but my interactions with others are usually equal or mutual.

[Jasmine]

15 minutes ago, Xoza said:

Love you Jasmine, going to respond to this.

Responses from my own perspective of course, which could be vastly different from other officers.

1. Stop having 3, 4, or 10 cruisers flying through the city all chasing one comet retro - Agreed, we're working on improving this.
2. Stop being complete jerks to civilians. - Eh, when a citizen runs up and says. "I have something important." and it's not. "I want to report a crime." and they have no evidence. "I want __________" and we have no legal obligation or means to give it to you, our conversation will most likely be short. But, when they're asked to file a crime report or IA report... they can't be bothered. We can put out BOLO's, question people, but it's limited what more we can do. Our investigations personnel and training in police investigative practices have improved, but it does depend on the officer and the activities going on at that time.
3. Talk to civilians, stop slowly rolling by to search me in your MDC and drive off. - Personally unless I have a reason to talk to you, I don't usually bother unless it gives me an advantage to what I'm looking for. Specifically if I'm looking for a car. Every time I talk to most people, they get suspicious, defensive or disrespectful, which I don't  have the time for. It isn't about being personable for me, but using the time I have wisely. I would love to do more for the citizens of the city off duty and have been focusing on doing so, but when I'm on duty, I have different goals, yes, I can be friendly and reasonable, but my interactions with others are usually equal or mutual.

2. As I am sure you know, I am more than willing to dive full in on a police report. I see it as great roleplay, but also Jasmine likes to make connections in the PD. I do understand your point that most people don't bother, and don't want to "play the game" so to speak. At the same time, I tend to put in as much effort into a report as the PD wants me to. Most times (this is just my experience) they have little desire to do much, and don't want to take the time to investigate. Anytime I've been asked to provide more info, I have. And often stay on scene, sometimes over on hour, or even go to PD to the interview rooms. (Several of my YouTube videos support this). 

But yes, I get your point that it "takes two to tango", and this is not only a PD issue, civilians should do better too.

3. When I first joined the server, reactions to me were horrid. I can promise you just as bad, if not worse, then the reaction most PD get. I had a choice, either get angry and salty, and start acting like a bitch. Or..."be the change you want to see", and be overly nice and kind to everyone no matter how awful they were. 

This worked for me...it is very rare Jas is met with vulgarity, slurs, anger, or disgust anymore (and yes even before I was Staff I was treated quite well haha). 
I think people will react to you, dependent on how you treat and react to them. There is only 1 faction I am not always nice to. PD. And that is 100% a reaction to the way Jas is usually treated by the PD. It is a character development I did not plan or expect, it was a development that happened naturally ICly, based on how the PD behave. 

All this simply to say, even when everyone else is being mean, nasty and cruel to you, you should try to treat others as you want to be treated...even if its hard and they don't deserve it. 

There are PD Jas is nice to, and respects. But they have earned that reaction by treating Jas right.