Cops metagaming the Gun texture

[CrowCargo]

RPing hiding a weapon which is intentionally scripted to show and be visible, in my opinion is borderline Power Gaming. As is the use of ‘ it could be a water pistol/ Airsoft gun / paintball gun.’ And having to slow down RP to send screenshots etc only slows down active Roleplay in general. There is a simple solution, and that is to accept that if a weapon can be seen on your person, then treat it as such. If you choose to keep it in a bag or briefcase, and accept that you will have to take extra steps in order for it to be equipped, then we can streamline RP for everyone and move on with our days on a level playing field in this instance.

[Mopop]

3 hours ago, CrowCargo said:

RPing hiding a weapon which is intentionally scripted to show and be visible, in my opinion is borderline Power Gaming. As is the use of ‘ it could be a water pistol/ Airsoft gun / paintball gun.’ And having to slow down RP to send screenshots etc only slows down active Roleplay in general. There is a simple solution, and that is to accept that if a weapon can be seen on your person, then treat it as such. If you choose to keep it in a bag or briefcase, and accept that you will have to take extra steps in order for it to be equipped, then we can streamline RP for everyone and move on with our days on a level playing field in this instance.

Yep the last person who said they had proof later on in /b goes "lol I lied"

Meanwhile I have to deal with the screeching NONRP fest that is the bank.

[Victor Einhart]

If you want to hide it just get a bag like everybody else.  When you roll by a bunch of dudes wearing gang colours, not one of them has a gun, but all of them have bags... what do you think they're carrying in there?  Dog treats?

If you want to be savvy and try to fool people you need to act with some common sense and actually try to keep up the act.

[Marca]

4 hours ago, CrowCargo said:

RPing hiding a weapon which is intentionally scripted to show and be visible, in my opinion is borderline Power Gaming. As is the use of ‘ it could be a water pistol/ Airsoft gun / paintball gun.’ And having to slow down RP to send screenshots etc only slows down active Roleplay in general. There is a simple solution, and that is to accept that if a weapon can be seen on your person, then treat it as such. If you choose to keep it in a bag or briefcase, and accept that you will have to take extra steps in order for it to be equipped, then we can streamline RP for everyone and move on with our days on a level playing field in this instance.

 

On 11/1/2019 at 12:32 AM, XposeD said:

Hello, It isn't meta? This is intended so you cannot hide a weapon because that's unrealistic. Weapons are shown on purpose and you are allowed to see it. You can by all means roleplay hiding it with /me and then provide a screenshot to the officer that spots it, But they can still search you and will more than likely find it

I must agree with CrowCargo on this one. I think that script support should overpower whatever RP you do. If the weapon can be seen and I choose to RP seeing it, I shouldn't be forced to stop RP or drop the situation if they have OOC proof, since it's against the rules for anyone but an admin to pause RP. Just because they RP'd hiding it, it sounds like PG. There's also no requirement to have people RP taking it out, which is also unfair since the weapon is instantly available for them in any situation.

If anything, the other party should have the option to either choose to accept or deny such RP to be valid. People should also play by the rules and not use a poor excuse of "I RP'd it, so script limitations or restrictions don't apply to me". 

[CrowCargo]

I mean a similar use of the logic would be to RPly wrap a shotgun in black plastic bin bags. 

Officers: get down on your knees, and place your hands in the air

Person with ambiguous shaped bin bag stick on his back:  /b (( lul it’s wrapped in bin bags and wouldn’t be visible I have proof. What’s your discord? )) *hits enter*

*presses t* What’s wrong officer? I’m just taking my bin bags for a walk... 

*Files IA report*

I can’t react to my own post so I’ll put it here: FeelsChromosomeMan

Edited November 2, 2019 by CrowCargo

[padpilot]

20 hours ago, CrowCargo said:

RPing hiding a weapon which is intentionally scripted to show and be visible, in my opinion is borderline Power Gaming. As is the use of ‘ it could be a water pistol/ Airsoft gun / paintball gun.’ And having to slow down RP to send screenshots etc only slows down active Roleplay in general. There is a simple solution, and that is to accept that if a weapon can be seen on your person, then treat it as such. If you choose to keep it in a bag or briefcase, and accept that you will have to take extra steps in order for it to be equipped, then we can streamline RP for everyone and move on with our days on a level playing field in this instance.

honestly, i think the confusion is that no new  players know the heavy weapon is scipted this way whilst others are not.

You and others share common views on this as viewed through this thread.  

However, as stated, it is your opinion. Do you think it would be benificial for Roleplay standards to be better outlined to stop this confusion and the use of "opinions", a rule or a ruling should not be open to "opinions" or interpretation. 

[padpilot]

16 hours ago, Marca said:

 

I must agree with CrowCargo on this one. I think that script support should overpower whatever RP you do. If the weapon can be seen and I choose to RP seeing it, I shouldn't be forced to stop RP or drop the situation if they have OOC proof, since it's against the rules for anyone but an admin to pause RP. Just because they RP'd hiding it, it sounds like PG. There's also no requirement to have people RP taking it out, which is also unfair since the weapon is instantly available for them in any situation.

If anything, the other party should have the option to either choose to accept or deny such RP to be valid. People should also play by the rules and not use a poor excuse of "I RP'd it, so script limitations or restrictions don't apply to me". 

i do not beleve it would be a good idea to allow players to accept the roleplay standards themselves. This will lead to a very very mix matched standards of roleplay. We have rules, we should have clearer guidelines. DO NOT leave it to "the other party" to "choose to accept or deny such RP" as this will create confusion, give room  for bias play and leave the door open to favioratism. 

[MrSilky]

On 11/1/2019 at 12:22 AM, padpilot said:

So if this intended, why allow new players the trouble of finding out by going to prison. 

Just be decent about it, let them know and tell them how to avoid it in the future. 

Why are so many gameplay mechanics only understandable after having to go to prison or by discussing it with the staff. 

This should be clearly stated, to avoid confusion. 

The community needs to do a better job at letting new players know what is and isnt a bug, just out of decency. 

Many many things a player only understands after having a bad rp experiance or by trolling the forum viewing verdicts on past reports. 

Simple, look at player xp when in game, if they seem new, just give them the benifit of the doubt, just be decent about it. whats so hard about that. 
 

To respond to this, PD (and I'm sure SD also) have an internal OOC protocol for "Leniency to New Players" where everything related to their arrest or jail time is advised to be reduced drastically to allow them to get back to playing to learn the ropes of the server.

About the whole "Why are so many gameplay mechanics only understandable after having to go to prison or by discussing it with the staff" if you see it, RP it unless told otherwise in RP or by staff. This will stop the whole confusion in the future.

[padpilot]

2 hours ago, MrSilky said:

"if you see it, RP it "

this is something i am only now appreciating. I had my house robbed recently, i had rp leaving the key inside and had adequate evidence to suit. Howver, like you say if you can see it roleplay it, so, instead of gaining entry with a key, the would be attackers simple do 

/do attempts to shoot out the lock
/do s

this was ofc succesfful. 

But this got me thinking, you dont actually need a key, for example, if i see a window on a house, as you say, "if you see it, RP it" - this is some thing i had not considered and opens the door to many more possibilities of roleplay. However, ive been playing since june and i can assure you "if you see it, RP it" is not consistent within the entire commuity, and i believe this is where the problem arises. I know from experiance now that unless someone has reinforeced there door with blastproof/bulletproof hinges, casing and locks, then any door is accessable with one shot- but it took a long time for me to realize this. 

My point is, with the vaying levels of experiance, and the gap between new playes and veteran players ever increasing, mayeb some key pointers or guidlines are in order, if not to educate at least and bring every player up to the same standards of roleplay, cause i can assure you the vast majority of players are unaware that you can gain entry to a house by shootng the door or just climbing throught the window.

its hard to rp when a lot of us have very different standards. 

[Lewiss57]

On 10/31/2019 at 11:32 PM, XposeD said:

Hello, It isn't meta? This is intended so you cannot hide a weapon because that's unrealistic.

In my opinion, it's more realistic being able to hide it behind a coat as in real life that's literally all it takes. something like a heavy is understandable but i'd actually agree with being able to hide pistols.

[Mopop]

3 hours ago, padpilot said:

this is something i am only now appreciating. I had my house robbed recently, i had rp leaving the key inside and had adequate evidence to suit. Howver, like you say if you can see it roleplay it, so, instead of gaining entry with a key, the would be attackers simple do 

/do attempts to shoot out the lock
/do s

this was ofc succesfful. 

But this got me thinking, you dont actually need a key, for example, if i see a window on a house, as you say, "if you see it, RP it" - this is some thing i had not considered and opens the door to many more possibilities of roleplay. However, ive been playing since june and i can assure you "if you see it, RP it" is not consistent within the entire commuity, and i believe this is where the problem arises. I know from experiance now that unless someone has reinforeced there door with blastproof/bulletproof hinges, casing and locks, then any door is accessable with one shot- but it took a long time for me to realize this. 

My point is, with the vaying levels of experiance, and the gap between new playes and veteran players ever increasing, mayeb some key pointers or guidlines are in order, if not to educate at least and bring every player up to the same standards of roleplay, cause i can assure you the vast majority of players are unaware that you can gain entry to a house by shootng the door or just climbing throught the window.

its hard to rp when a lot of us have very different standards. 

Pretty sure mythbusters did a thing on how you can't shoot a lock in real life to open a door.

[Asiantator]

3 hours ago, CarlTTT said:

Pretty sure mythbusters did a thing on how you can't shoot a lock in real life to open a door.

They did it improperly. Google a Masterkey sometime. That combined with some breaching rounds will punch right through. Unless you mean something like padlock, in which case a simple boot will pop it open.

[padpilot]

11 minutes ago, Asiantator said:

They did it improperly. Google a Masterkey sometime. That combined with some breaching rounds will punch right through. Unless you mean something like padlock, in which case a simple boot will pop it open.

 

3 hours ago, CarlTTT said:

Pretty sure mythbusters did a thing on how you can't shoot a lock in real life to open a door.

I spent nearly 2 hours setting upp security systems, blast proof doors, bullets proof locks and hinges and installed 3 deadlocks on the door. 

Unless they whip thermite out of their ass, literally no way in now. Even barricaded the windows with the same metal as the door. Cant see how anyone is going to just shoot of my door handle and walk in again. 

[Asiantator]

Just now, padpilot said:

 

I spent nearly 2 hours setting upp security systems, blast proof doors, bullets proof locks and hinges and installed 3 deadlocks on the door. 

Unless they whip thermite out of their ass, literally no way in now. Even barricaded the windows with the same metal as the door. Cant see how anyone is going to just shoot of my door handle and walk in again. 

Im suggesting a normal wooden door. Not blastproof/metal doors. That is what breaching charges are for.

[Skizee]

+1. I understand what meant with this post, what should be done is maybe add an additional option to select where do you wanna equip the weapon, if its on the back of your jeans, front, somewhere on the jacket, etc.. Instead only in the back of your jeans outside them

[Azphelle]

I base it off what the person is wearing. If they're wearing a shirt that's tucked in and try to tell me the gun is hidden in their waistband, I'm not buying it. 

Only the other day we encountered someone with a longer coat with the gun poking through the coat texture. We rp'd that we saw an unusual bulge and he /b responded that it's hidden and has proof.  Realistically, noticing a slight bulge in the back of someone's coat would not immediately make me think GUN so the noticing was just a /me. Plus the person in question was only being questioned about outstanding speeding tickets and assuming their criminal status would be profiling. 

All in all, cops don't metagame the guns. You want a hidden weapon then get a heavy pistol with less punch, or face the consequences of having a harder hitter that you can't as easily hide. 

You can't have your cake and eat it. 

Edited November 14, 2019 by Azphelle

[Henry Goodman]

You can't play on Eclipse RP without having your gameplay recorded. It puts you in massive disadvantage if you dont have recording ON. As far as for the gun showing, i work with a 9mm handgun since its part of my job and yea, i can hide it where ever i want on me, no one would ever realise i am armed. 50cal is bigger but it can also be hidden. Last year only heavy weapons were visible and handguns were not. I prefer it over todays situation where everything is visible.

[Chunder]

SUGGESTION DENIED

Thank you for your patience while this suggestion was being reviewed/researched.

After reviewing/researching this suggestion, we have decided to deny it for the following reason(s): 

• The rule still stands "If you can see the gun, it is there." There are IC ways to hide the gun such as baggy clothing or not having the firearm on you when around LEOs.

This decision is final. Unless instructed to, do not post another suggestion pertaining to this topic. You will still be able to submit other suggestions on the forums.

Regards,

Chunder