Remove passive (logged off) income.

[Jasmine]

OK, so you have played on the server 2+ years, you have put in your time and effort, worked your butt off, now you should get to log off and still earn more money than the average player, right?

Wrong. 

Income should only be earned while you are actually logged in and contributing to the server community, engaging in RP, and actually playing the game. The community that makes up eclipse are the players who are in the streets, putting in their hours, developing scenarios and interacting with each other. If you are not willing to contribute to the CURRENT community anymore, then your income should stop until you log in again.

Things that could be done to address this:

1) Gas stations, general stores: Only recieve cash when the owner is online, the store goes offline when they are not on. OPEN more player owned shops to ensure demand can be met. Active shops would recieve and icon, and others are blacked out. If no shop owners are online, open NPC owned stored, or sell more shops!

2) Car Dealers, Gun stores: Reservation system where an owner (or possibly employees) have to be present to sell goods. If their is not enough supply because the owners are never on (often the case right now with car dealers) allow more player owned shops. Run the others out of business if they are not willing to contribute to the CURRENT RP community.

- This reduces passive income, and opens a ton more opportunities for CURRENT players to open and operate businesses. This will also reduce the insanely overinflated prices of these shops.

3) Government subsidized housing rentals: removes the dependency for new players to rely on the rich to afford a small apartment. Removes some of the passive income generated by these insanely overpriced houses. FINALLY fix the housing and the parking lot issue in one simple change.

4) Government issued loans: remove some of the reliance on the loan sharks (many of whom are rarely online) by offering business loans to players who can provide a business plan. Offer government assisted mortgage loans, with an approval process, to alleviate the housing prices, and reduce passive income to loan companies. 

- You can even make the government loans at a higher interest rate than the market, to ensure loan agents who are online and active are still in demand.

 

I am sure there are more.

Idea here is passive/offline income (equaling 100k or more per week in many cases) should be removed or at least diminished, while also allowing CURRENT RP players options and opportunities.

Thanks for reading!

 

PS: If you have been here 2+ years, and are also still contributing to the CURRENT RP community, first of all thank you, and second of all, this change should hopefully help you as your car dealership/gun dealership etc. will now gain an advantage over the ones with passive owners.

 

 

Edited May 20, 2019 by Jasmine

[alexalex303]

What are you describing is already a thing in the form of stock. 

Dealership owners have to import cars, gas stations owners have to import fuel, etc. If they are inactive for a period of time, their store will run out, especially now when stocking a business requires a trucker, they are contributing to roleplay.

It would make no sense for the owner of a gas station to be in-game or it's shut down. This feels like a knee-jerk reaction against people that have businesses as a new player, but I can assure you, they are not all owned by players that have been here for years.

[Jasmine]

9 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

What are you describing is already a thing in the form of stock. 

Dealership owners have to import cars, gas stations owners have to import fuel, etc. If they are inactive for a period of time, their store will run out, especially now when stocking a business requires a trucker, they are contributing to roleplay.

It would make no sense for the owner of a gas station to be in-game or it's shut down. This feels like a knee-jerk reaction against people that have businesses as a new player, but I can assure you, they are not all owned by players that have been here for years.

I have watched the gas market for 3-4 weeks now. Many of these owners do not log in for 5-6-7 days to refill their stations. I can prove this.

I am glad we agree that the owners should have to log in, I just think it should be more than once a week. 

And also know this: this is not a knee-jerk reaction. This is from a player who has contributed SIGNIFICANT time and effort into eclipse, and is at wits end with the lack of options despite millions in her account, countless hours of RP to set up as a business owner, and most importantly, DESPERATELY wants eclipse RP to remain her home.

Maybe my timing is off, because it comes after the general store disaster...But I spent weeks in anticipation of this update, secured a loan, met with business partners, gained financers, and other support....this was hours/weeks of RP....

To have the admins walk in and just open the stores completely unannounced. That was the catalyst for this thread, but trust me, the ideas here are something I have been thinking about for months.

Edited May 20, 2019 by Jasmine

[Wifye]

37 minutes ago, Jasmine said:

I have watched the gas market for 3-4 weeks now. Many of these owners do not log in for 5-6-7 days to refill their stations. I can prove this.

I am glad we agree that the owners should have to log in, I just think it should be more than once a week. 

And also know this: this is not a knee-jerk reaction. This is from a player who has contributed SIGNIFICANT time and effort into eclipse, and is at wits end with the lack of options despite millions in her account, countless hours of RP to set up as a business owner, and most importantly, DESPERATELY wants eclipse RP to remain her home.

Maybe my timing is off, because it comes after the general store disaster...But I spent weeks in anticipation of this update, secured a loan, met with business partners, gained financers, and other support....this was hours/weeks of RP....

To have the admins walk in and just open the stores completely unannounced. That was the catalyst for this thread, but trust me, the ideas here are something I have been thinking about for months.

I completely understand and agree with you in regards to wanting more participation from those who hold businesses in the realms of rp rather than just using the game mechanics for money. 

Many players such as yourself strive for the opportunity to own a business and conduct daily rp through it on a regular basis as if it was a job like being a cop or mechanic.

Therefore I think the smarter play here might be to limit the use of NPC clerks to allow the use of actual player clerks in stores requiring the business owners to either operate their stores more themselves or hire people to do so. Having actual clerks/salesmen at stores like gunshops, general stores, and dealerships put a more sensible burden on the owner and require actual management rather than just tossing some money at restocking mechanics.

If the above is taken into consideration, people would be more hesitant to buy a business if they're expected to manage and interact with it more rather than just restocking and make profits. This would in turn will more likely result in the selling of businesses and open the opportunity to players who want to run the business in routine roleplay as the owner rather than just profit off of mechanics with occasional rp.

Just an idea to give the desired effect you're looking for while also creating more content and opportunities rather than implementing restrictions.

Edited May 20, 2019 by Wifye

[Jasmine]

15 minutes ago, Wifye said:

 

If the above is taken into consideration, people would be more hesitant to buy a business if they're expected to manage and interact with it more rather than just restocking and make profits. This would in turn will more likely result in the selling of businesses and open the opportunity to players who want to run the business in routine roleplay as the owner rather than just profit off of mechanics with occasional rp.

 

This solves half the problem for me. The other problem is the massive hurdle from New-ish player, to any chance of owning and operating a business. 4/5/6 million to buy a business is too steep a climb.

Limiting offline income, forcing more interaction with your business, and deactivating businesses when owners are not around (or employees as you suggest) would allow more businesses to be able to be opened. The current businesses run for so much because they have an inherent lock on the market, without even needing to be logged in.

The solution to market control is lowering barriers to entry and providing assistance to new business owners. This can be done by allowing more businesses to be purchased. To ensure enough demand for the new businesses, disallow offline operations.

 

ASIDE from all this market/theory talk, there is also just a level of unfairness. The only access to passive/offline income is through these money-gated businesses. At a base level, I just do not think passive income should be a game mechanic for RP. Or at least require frequent logons and significant time (time requirement can be debated but...) to be invested to maintain the income.

There is no reasoning that would make a once a week login for an hour to refill your gas supply or order new cars while making 100sk profit for the following week justifiable. Just none.

[Wifye]

3 minutes ago, Jasmine said:

This solves half the problem for me. The other problem is the massive hurdle from New-ish player, to any chance of owning and operating a business. 4/5/6 million to buy a business is too steep a climb.

Limiting offline income, forcing more interaction with your business, and deactivating businesses when owners are not around (or employees as you suggest) would allow more businesses to be able to be opened. The current businesses run for so much because they have an inherent lock on the market, without even needing to be logged in.

The solution to market control is lowering barriers to entry and providing assistance to new business owners. This can be done by allowing more businesses to be purchased. To ensure enough demand for the new businesses, disallow offline operations.

 

ASIDE from all this market/theory talk, there is also just a level of unfairness. The only access to passive/offline income is through these money-gated businesses. At a base level, I just do not think passive income should be a game mechanic for RP. Or at least require frequent logons and significant time (time requirement can be debated but...) to be invested to maintain the income.

There is no reasoning that would make a once a week login for an hour to refill your gas supply or order new cars while making 100sk profit for the following week justifiable. Just none.

Newer players are unfortunately at a disadvantage when it comes to purchasing due to obvious money limitations but that is sort of a retention type deal by providing long terms goals to achieve through extended play time. If anyone could buy an actual physical business easily, there would be too many businesses causing a lack of customers for everyone. There has to be some balance and quality maintained between # of physical businesses to buy vs # of players.

New businesses are not only limited to physical locations. There are processes to establish a new business without having an actual physical location, both legally registered or illegally. This is a far tougher path to travel but it is not impossible, sure making money is tougher but everyone is here to rp and any new to business, outside the normal routine game mechanic assisted businesses, has a good shot at becoming utilized by people.

A few examples of a business without an actual location:

- a traveling therapist/psychologist. There's plenty of messed up characters on the server who would surely like to vent about issues

- delivery services similar to grub hub/postmates/uber eats, especially with the hunger/thirst update

- being a musician/photographer/artists people love artistic stuff and will pay for it

- erotic dancer/escort service/prostitution, pretty self explanatory

- being an information broker/private investigator to help people find out things

There's definitely tons more of opportunities to have a business without a location.

 

Now if you have plenty money and still want an actual business location that's not on the map, approach the devs with a whole complete in depth detailed petition of about the business and location along with how it will benefit the server vs the effort it'll take for implementation.

But all in all when it comes to the businesses on the map, you're unfortunately at the mercy of current owners in terms of buying one unless you can grab one as it's implemented. That is of course if npc limitations become a thing or income gets restricted.

 

 

[Flamefriends]

+1 from me. I've seen the proposed mechanics in action and they work very well when implemented correctly. Yes this is an rp server within a game, but the focus should be on rp, not acquiring massive amounts of money and gatekeeping the new players with outrageous prices. If your solution to unfairness like what is currently within this system is to git gud, or your response to the situation is that new players are sol, then you're only furthering the "win the game" mentality that has no real place in an rp server. 

[Jasmine]

On ‎5‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 11:04 AM, Wifye said:

 

New businesses are not only limited to physical locations. There are processes to establish a new business without having an actual physical location, both legally registered or illegally. This is a far tougher path to travel but it is not impossible, sure making money is tougher but everyone is here to rp and any new to business, outside the normal routine game mechanic assisted businesses, has a good shot at becoming utilized by people.

A few examples of a business without an actual location:

- a traveling therapist/psychologist. There's plenty of messed up characters on the server who would surely like to vent about issues

 

I was actually thinking of this exact idea. Do you know me in game?

I found the business registration and licensing website. So gonna start working on it. As well as a house to run the business out of. (just a place to meet really)

Thanks for the detailed thread, and wish me luck!

[Tom Whelan]

+1 

[Critcoz]

BIG -1

[LaCocke]

-1

You are expecting too much from people, some of us have work/school and do not have time to be always on. I would say out of those 8 gas station, owners would not be in the server all the time and that would cause bad RP experience + that would not be realistic compared to the real world.

Edited May 23, 2019 by LaCocke

[xCKube]

Would be a nice experience when every gas station owner and every store owner is offline! +1

 

Edit: So you wouldn't take this seriously, it's actually a -1 from me.

Edited May 23, 2019 by xCKube

[Sten_Lohk]

1 minute ago, xCKube said:

Would be a nice experience when every gas station owner and every store owner is offline! +1

Yea same huge +1

[Astrox]

A fat -1 from me.

 

A business is business.

You think Bill Gates stops making money when he sleeps?

 

The only thing I can say is, the economy is very inflated and it shouldn't be $10,000,000 to buy a general store.

Businesses that require effort should make the most money, however regardless - being online shouldn't judge how much money you make.

That should only count for jobs which it already does

[padpilot]

You get a massive + 1 from me. However, what you describe is almost next-gen RP and Eclipse and Rage do not seem to have the capacity to implement what you are asking.
 

What you propose is great but the systems are just not in place. Even on the surface, the community is divided as to the depth and quality of the RP required. OP's proposals seem to offer RP far beyond any notion of making money and its sad to see some respond as if making money had been the main topic of debate. 

This topic should be considered the highest priority for increasing the quality and quantity of RP. At present, the server is just lacking in content regarding RP creation opportunities outside of scripted services suck as medic/mechanic/taxi/bus driver (all of which appear very rinse and repeat jobs, imo).  More business could be beneficial. 

Further thoughts;

Barbers, tattoo shop, butchers, gamesman, tour bus, bouncers for poker rooms and clubs, 

you don't have to only have big business' but also little business. 

A Barber could be required to be within his shop for a set amount of time every day. If the player is going away and loses the business, tough shit, they lose the business, let the next person have a go. MORE RP

A group of 10 people may decide that they want to run the local tattoo parlor. They arrange for the tattoo parlor to be stationed by them so it cannot be taken over, MORE RP

Keep in mind that a tattooist or barber often just rent the chair in the shop and not the actual shop. There should be more opportunity for players to nip in and out of retail roles and RP opportunities. Apply on the website for retail training and certification and allow players to /startwork inside a retail clothing store for example. 

A hot dog vendor buys a license from the local council/government (player based, centered around a presidential/major RP hierarchy, mentioned in other suggestions) granting them permission to sell food in certain spots. The spots cost different amounts to sell. For example, to sell hotdogs outside the bank would be more expensive than to sell hotdogs outside the police station, as per projected profits from each spot. However, to sell hotdogs at an Event organized by the Ecplise Community Event Organizers such as at a concert or comedy night would require auctions, everyone needs to eat at a concert so the council would take bids from local food vendors on who wins the rights to sell at the events. (Funny quirky hotdog rivalries could emerge). Another example For example. I log on, I go to the store, those who own the store are not online. So can use the shop, as usual, however, there is a timer in store, displaying the last time the owner(s) were in the store. if the owner does not reset their alarm within this time then an alarm is signaled. Cops show up and the alarm is diffused. There is no more timer. The owner has now forfeited their ownership of the ship. Notification is sent out through the server that the shop is now up for sale. 

it could be first come first server? The highest bidder to the council/government?       (I'm not sure how this would be settled). 

 

A different system could be used for gas station and bigger business but there is no need to have only 1 type or size of business. 

The business may require joint signatures of x amount of people to leave. 

A holdings based system would be nice for criminal gangs. Where criminal gangs may own 5 business for examples however could only directly control the operations of 2. Meaning they have to subcontract the operation of the business to smaller gangs. (However, considering the near non-implementation of anything gang related outside of an official "faction" this may never happen. 

The Zetas for example (random gang selection) could directly control 2 locations/business and send 5 men to each to protect their business, ensure they don't get robbed by other players, etc. They could then go and collect "earning" from those other gangs/individuals/players they have running the business they cannot control directly. (Think kings/vassals).  ((Any introduction of a hierarchical system would be beneficial tbf)). 

I would love to play RP with the functions OP describes but I feel the mechanics of Rage and Eclipse may struggle. Although it's still unbelievably great RP considering the available resources and will continue to play  sorry for the long post. GL

Edited May 24, 2019 by padpilot

[Jasmine]

4 hours ago, padpilot said:

You get a massive + 1 from me. However, what you describe is almost next-gen RP and Eclipse and Rage do not seem to have the capacity to implement what you are asking.
 

What you propose is great but the systems are just not in place. Even on the surface, the community is divided as to the depth and quality of the RP required. OP's proposals seem to offer RP far beyond any notion of making money and its sad to see some respond as if making money had been the main topic of debate. 

This topic should be considered the highest priority for increasing the quality and quantity of RP. At present, the server is just lacking in content regarding RP creation opportunities outside of scripted services suck as medic/mechanic/taxi/bus driver (all of which appear very rinse and repeat jobs, imo).  More business could be beneficial. 

Further thoughts;

Barbers, tattoo shop, butchers, gamesman, tour bus, bouncers for poker rooms and clubs, 

you don't have to only have big business' but also little business. 

A Barber could be required to be within his shop for a set amount of time every day. If the player is going away and loses the business, tough shit, they lose the business, let the next person have a go. MORE RP

A group of 10 people may decide that they want to run the local tattoo parlor. They arrange for the tattoo parlor to be stationed by them so it cannot be taken over, MORE RP

Keep in mind that a tattooist or barber often just rent the chair in the shop and not the actual shop. There should be more opportunity for players to nip in and out of retail roles and RP opportunities. Apply on the website for retail training and certification and allow players to /startwork inside a retail clothing store for example. 

A hot dog vendor buys a license from the local council/government (player based, centered around a presidential/major RP hierarchy, mentioned in other suggestions) granting them permission to sell food in certain spots. The spots cost different amounts to sell. For example, to sell hotdogs outside the bank would be more expensive than to sell hotdogs outside the police station, as per projected profits from each spot. However, to sell hotdogs at an Event organized by the Ecplise Community Event Organizers such as at a concert or comedy night would require auctions, everyone needs to eat at a concert so the council would take bids from local food vendors on who wins the rights to sell at the events. (Funny quirky hotdog rivalries could emerge). Another example For example. I log on, I go to the store, those who own the store are not online. So can use the shop, as usual, however, there is a timer in store, displaying the last time the owner(s) were in the store. if the owner does not reset their alarm within this time then an alarm is signaled. Cops show up and the alarm is diffused. There is no more timer. The owner has now forfeited their ownership of the ship. Notification is sent out through the server that the shop is now up for sale. 

it could be first come first server? The highest bidder to the council/government?       (I'm not sure how this would be settled). 

 

A different system could be used for gas station and bigger business but there is no need to have only 1 type or size of business. 

The business may require joint signatures of x amount of people to leave. 

A holdings based system would be nice for criminal gangs. Where criminal gangs may own 5 business for examples however could only directly control the operations of 2. Meaning they have to subcontract the operation of the business to smaller gangs. (However, considering the near non-implementation of anything gang related outside of an official "faction" this may never happen. 

The Zetas for example (random gang selection) could directly control 2 locations/business and send 5 men to each to protect their business, ensure they don't get robbed by other players, etc. They could then go and collect "earning" from those other gangs/individuals/players they have running the business they cannot control directly. (Think kings/vassals).  ((Any introduction of a hierarchical system would be beneficial tbf)). 

I would love to play RP with the functions OP describes but I feel the mechanics of Rage and Eclipse may struggle. Although it's still unbelievably great RP considering the available resources and will continue to play  sorry for the long post. GL

I promise you what I describe is 100% possible.

I am no genius here, or revolutionary thinker.

I think instead, eclipse is behind the times.

[Jasmine]

8 hours ago, LaCocke said:

-1

You are expecting too much from people, some of us have work/school and do not have time to be always on. I would say out of those 8 gas station, owners would not be in the server all the time and that would cause bad RP experience + that would not be realistic compared to the real world.

Then why is it OK that everyone else, except those who have a massive lead in cash, must always be on to earn cash? By your reasoning, we should all be making our paychecks passively, while logged off, not only the mega-rich.

You are right, what I am proposing would mean those who can no longer commit the hours in the current community, should eventually be surpassed by the new and upcoming generation of Eclipse RPrs, I understand exactly what I am asking.

 

PS - I used size 22 bold font, which is bigger than yours, so clearly I win this debate.

Edited May 24, 2019 by Jasmine

[Jasmine]

8 hours ago, xCKube said:

Would be a nice experience when every gas station owner and every store owner is offline! +1

 

Edit: So you wouldn't take this seriously, it's actually a -1 from me.

Then....open more? Or have NPC ones that open when the player controlled ones close?

Or require more time than once a week for 15 minutes to engage with your business??

There are 20 different ways around your point. It does not devalue what I have proposed one bit.

If anything, it completely validates my point, if the gas stations are constantly closed because the owners never log in, why are they collecting big fat paychecks each week? Why is no one else bothered by this? It takes 20 hours to make what some of these stations make in 1 week. Without having to be logged in at all.

(This is not to say all owners are never around, just saying those who are never around, should not be passively gaining while making it impossible for new players to ever gain ground.)

Edited May 24, 2019 by Jasmine

[xCKube]

If you ask me. A business that costs millions of hard-earned dollars, should have advantages over other money making ways. 

33 minutes ago, Jasmine said:

If anything, it completely validates my point, if the gas stations are constantly closed because the owners never log

It doesn't validate anything. I never said that they are never online. What if gas station owners are Europeans and its night time for them and they have to sleep to be able to go to school or work.

33 minutes ago, Jasmine said:

Then....open more? Or have NPC ones that open when the player controlled ones close?

Why give developers more work to do? Take it like this: current gas stations have an automated system where a person pays and gets the fuel for it - just like IRL. 

To me it seems that you have too much free time on hand and are butthurt because you are unable to own a business so you are trying to devalue them as much as possible to increase your chance of owning one. 

[padpilot]

 

 

1

1 hour ago, xCKube said:

 

To me it seems that you have too much free time on hand and are butthurt because you are unable to own a business so you are trying to devalue them as much as possible to increase your chance of owning one. 

you lose all credibility with this comment and you cannot be taken seriously anymore. OP is trying to engage and elevate RP to the next level and you call then "butthurt". You have a simple mind. 
 

 

[Logan_Black]

-1, this is stupid, most of the business owners IRL, don't even see the clients, they have people who work for them. This idea will never come true, sorry, but its true.

And what kind of rp this would add to the server, if you would make stores open only when the owner is online ? Is the owner going to be a cashier ?NO. Is the owner going to stand in fuel station and fill your gas? NO. Is the owner of the dealership going to sit in his office and offer you cars? NO. Because people have their lives, they have things to do, they have to work to make money for the living, they are not able to be online 24/7, its not their job to be in the server all day..

 

Also there is a system, that every business owner has to log in every day, to make orders. This system is good as is. I know that as a gun store owner, I have to make orders everyday, to keep the clients happy.

 

 

If you want more rp experience, apply for business license, you don't need to have millions to open a business, you can rp everything, sell hot dogs, open a furniture moving company, renovate house interiors, real estate agency, the ideas are endless.

Edited May 24, 2019 by Logan_Black

[CaesarSeizure]

The thing is, why would you need to interact more in game than you do IRL.

Gas stations have card scanners so you have 0 interaction with people - so the server has already the real life equivalent.

Stores have self checkouts, where there is 1 person to assist, check your age or help with something not working, but assuming everything would work without a flaw, you would need no interaction - so again, this is already very close to real life.

The only thing i could see is gun stores actually having someone at them to prevent people from buying without a license or a type of gun they don't have a license for - regardless of scripts prohibiting this, involving RP would make it better.

 

And lastly i think that while business RP can, should and honestly Is constantly improving, making the essentials rely on RP would just make it more difficult, you can just force people to sit at a store or gas station like it was their actual work.

 

What i would like though is that when new stores etc are added, it would not be a first come first serve, could be an auction to help out getting a business. 

And i think that adding some more RP to store, gas station, etc owners would be good, but at this point, if someone who spent a lot of money on a store wants to sleep and passively make money, it is his choice.

So im gonna go with a -1.

[padpilot]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

7

3 hours ago, Logan_Black said:

And what kind of rp this would add to the server, if you would make stores open only when the owner is online ? Is the owner going to be a cashier ?NO. Is the owner going to stand in fuel station and fill your gas? NO. Is the owner of the dealership going to sit in his office and offer you cars? NO. Because people have their lives, they have things to do, they have to work to make money for the living, they are not able to be online 24/7, its not their job to be in the server all day..

Owners often have employees. Would you consider the idea where upon purchasing a business that the Owner should be required to fill certain positions within the company by hiring people? Players could report back to the owners on the store's takings and get paid accordingly (this could be automated).

Or how about Cloths shops being all ran as a faction, much like other factions. Where there are owners, managers, employees, etc. Players could be offered incentives with special promotions or limited edition clothing only available at player ran outlets, thus encouraging RP. You could include tattoo parlors and barbers in this. I know if I had a local barber I would be more inclined to get my hair cut more often. 

 

Just a thought. 

[xCKube]

5 hours ago, padpilot said:

you lose all credibility with this comment and you cannot be taken seriously anymore. OP is trying to engage and elevate RP to the next level and you call then "butthurt". You have a simple mind. 

Elevating the RP by making the server even more unrealistic than it already is.

[Captain Tofu]

I own one of the businesses that is outside of the city and I can assure you that my daily income ( 24 hours ) is lower than the amount I would make if I would spend 1 or 2 hours fishing.

What would be the point of owning a business if in the end I would make less money than I would make while solely being on welfare?

I spent over 40 days of playtime in the server, working my head off to eventually get a business to have my name on the map, I grew with the community, get to know a lot of people... And yeah, I don't have that much time to play anymore (I have roughly 1 hour a day of free time).

Based on your logic, I would need to spend this 1 hour, logging on GTA, barely having time to invest in some good rp scenarios just to get a few hundred dollars out of my millions dollar worth business.

I don't want to say your suggestion is stupid... But it doesn't make any sense.