Reverting this new gun system

[Luc]

Why people think this new gun system is a good idea is really beyond me. First of all, it is now incredibly difficult to obtain a weapon as a smaller gang. As there are no scamming rules, bigger gangs have no incentive to actually deliver the guns as agreed. Moreover, there is nothing you can do as you have no weapons to retaliate with once scammed. Especially larger unofficial gangs will have no chance at actually playing the game properly, as no bigger gang has any incentive to sell them guns. Roleplaying crime as a larger unofficial gang is also made impossible by the fact that guns can also not be obtained legally, as they are criminals. 

Another point is that pistols are basically going to be non-existant, as bigger gangs will only use larger guns to do crime. This, in my opinion, is not very realistic/immersive at all. There is currently no way to remove serial numbers from a gun to make it untrackable, as happens very often in real life. Because of this, it will be virtually impossible to pass around legal firearms without having permits revoked. 

I realise that this thread will probably soon be deleted, as I've just been banned from Discord for naming these consequences of this ridiculous new system. I've had severla friends quit already because of this. Roleplaying as a criminal that is not part of a larger gang just got impossible, so I'm really baffled as to why people think this has been a good idea. 

[Eshu]

How do gangs in game import non serial marked guns? Do they have to own a gun store? 

[Luc]

4 minutes ago, Eshu said:

How do gangs in game import non serial marked guns? Do they have to own a gun store? 

No, official gangs can import guns RPly as they are criminal organizations. However, unofficial gangs are not recognized as such and therefore do not have access to these guns, thus creating a monopoly for official gangs. 

Edited April 12, 2019 by Luc

[Eshu]

1 minute ago, Luc said:

No, official gangs can important guns RPly as they are criminal organizations. However, unofficial gangs are not recognized as such and therefore do not have access to these guns, thus creating a monopoly for official gangs. 

Ahh so I can see why this is problematic.  Gangs won't sell anyone guns or just for a extremely high price if they don't rob you + you can't buy guns from gun store anymore because the serial number can be traced and you won't be able to get a permit. 

 

 +1

[Luc]

1 minute ago, Eshu said:

Ahh so I can see why this is problematic.  Gangs won't sell anyone guns or just for a extremely high price if they don't rob you + you can't buy guns from gun store anymore because the serial number can be traced and you won't be able to get a permit. 

 

 +1

You cant even buy guns from a gunstore if you've been to jail even once for basically everything but reckless driving. The barrier to get guns as a criminal that is not part of an official gang is just way too high now, so yeah.  

[D133790]

While I think making guns more difficult to get is a great idea, I do however see an issue of a certain two or three factions becoming more unstoppable than they already are. I don't think the new update is exactly problem, I think official factions forming an alliance and doing only insider trading will eventually bottleneck the RP for other factions that are not allied with them, but then again that is all an IC issue within itself. 

Edited April 12, 2019 by D133790
Wording

[Luc]

4 minutes ago, D133790 said:

While I think making guns more difficult is a great idea, I do however see an issue of a certain two or three factions becoming more unstoppable than they already are. I don't think the new update is exactly problem, I think official factions forming an alliance and doing only insider trading will eventually bottleneck the RP for other factions that are not allied with them, but then again that is all an IC issue within itself. 

I find the aspect of the change saying that they don't want criminals to keep using legal guns completely understandable. However, this is indeed just not the way to go about it. The criminal factions in this server are so tightly working together that they can be regarded as basically just one faction. Because of this, they currently have the same viewpoints in terms of gun distribution. This will make it even harder for certain unallied criminal organisations to aquire guns, thus adding to the problem of inaccesibility. 

However, this really is not an IC issue. In real-life there is obviously no such thing as 'official' and 'unofficial' gangs. Therefore, giving more power to official gangs, which is based purely upon OOC standards, is not an IC issue. 

Edited April 12, 2019 by Luc

[Spergburger]

The distinction between official and unofficial does have some RP to it. An official gang on the server is (RPly at least) more organized, better funded, and more connected. So since they've existed for a while and would have ties and connections that would allow them to import or buy weapons in bulk illegally, a small street gang started last week wouldn't have that same luxury. Instead, with those gangs, what you need is a gun dealer, or people who keep their noses clean that can buy you weapons. You could have a weapons dealer who keeps a clean criminal record and just resells legal weapons to you. What needs to be added for this to happen though is the ability to remove the serial number from a gun (they can be scraped off with a metal file in real life.) This way the guns being purchased legally and used for illegal purposes aren't being traced back to your gun dealer. While there is no script command to remove the serial number from a gun you could always RP filing the number off and keep the proof of RP in case it's ever needed. So while I agree that there is an issue with the implementation of the new update, I don't agree that it was done to "buff official gangs" like you claim it was.

[Swifty]

New system is perfect, I'd much rather see a reworking on how weapons illegal weapons can be purchased. Individuals or an unofficial faction member who wishes to become a firearm trafficker should have an option to become a supplier of said weapons without needing to be in an official faction.

[dardanr]

I like the new update and I dont think we should change it until we see how is it really gonna affect the economy

-1

[Luc]

9 hours ago, Swifty said:

New system is perfect, I'd much rather see a reworking on how weapons illegal weapons can be purchased. Individuals or an unofficial faction member who wishes to become a firearm trafficker should have an option to become a supplier of said weapons without needing to be in an official faction.

Agreed, but I think that the new system isnt quite perfect then lol

 

[Grape]

-1

[Aldari]

Quote

hy people think this new gun system is a good idea is really beyond me

Can be answered with: "First of all, it is now incredibly difficult to obtain a weapon as a smaller gang".

Obtaining a gun is not meant to be easy and criminals shouldn't have any access to legal firearms at all, this is after all a roleplay server and felons can't have gun licenses. 

 

Quote

bigger gangs have no incentive to actually deliver the guns as agreed. 

Money is the incentive. Just like real life, acquiring a reputation for scamming your customers may make you a quick buck, but you will establish zero repeat customer base. That's the incentive, to establish repeat customers and nobody will trust a gang that gains a reputation for scamming people.

 

Quote

Moreover, there is nothing you can do as you have no weapons to retaliate with once scammed.

As is intended. This isn't a win or lose server, that's the roleplay. Sometimes you just lose.

 

Quote

Especially larger unofficial gangs will have no chance at actually playing the game properly, as no bigger gang has any incentive to sell them guns. 

Then they can rob the other gangs or attempt to become official. 

 

Quote

Roleplaying crime as a larger unofficial gang is also made impossible by the fact that guns can also not be obtained legally, as they are criminals. 

Most crime doesn't require you to have a gun though.

 

Quote

Roleplaying as a criminal that is not part of a larger gang just got impossible

Perhaps the issue is imagination that server mechanics, because I've been able to RP as a criminal and I'm not affiliated with any gang at all, not even a small group. 

[Pazz]

12 hours ago, Swifty said:

New system is perfect, I'd much rather see a reworking on how weapons illegal weapons can be purchased. Individuals or an unofficial faction member who wishes to become a firearm trafficker should have an option to become a supplier of said weapons without needing to be in an official faction.

I agree, I think individuals who can prove that they base their character and their roleplay around this should have the chance to be selected or apply to become a firearms trafficker/dealer/supplier where they receive occasional supplies from server staff (through roleplay), sort of like the old (maybe still current?) official gang import system for unique weapons that cannot be imported through the script.

[Balastas]

Massive -1, the new system is actually cool. There's always a way to get a weapon if you try to rp instead of throwing punches. So there's people who has guns right, legal ones, so rp about that to get a weapon, instead of throwing punches (I would instantly take my gun out in such situation), rp throwing them down on the ground with few of your mates, rp'ly rob them, you don't need a gun to do that you can just overpower them even before they draw weapon out. Damn I don't even play criminal, but if small gangs can't figure that out maybe you don't deserve to get a gun.
Also knifes still legal in the stores, try to rob people using knifes and so on. Rply buy toy gun from the store, go behind person and put that toy in his back and tell him it's a robbery you got a gun. god damnit people, way to many of you got used to "hands up this is robbery" mentality as I can see it was just no brain grind simulator. Use your imagination, you don't need guns to get guns from other people...

Edited April 13, 2019 by Balastas

[NoobDude]

Sorry, I'm going with -1. If you check my Discord chats, I've always criticized Management for not laying down any rules to curb rampant criminal activity. This update does exactly that - Curb down gang activity to a great extent. Now, Civilians can breathe a sigh of relief. 

Props to Management, well done. Thanks for listening to us.

[Goldra]

+1

[Jerry Johnson]

You can all fix this by allowing anybody to import illegal weapons.. there is no "official gang" in real life and individuals can get illegal stuff through the dark web.

You can buy a laptop in-game for 50.000$, maybe make it so you can order guns through that?

[Toby Vintage]

Have you even tried to approach a gang and sort out weapon deals? I've seen on numerous occasions, weapons being sold from official gangs to smaller gangs and groups, it's not that hard. 

Now it's even better for gangs to make money and control the illegal firearms market by importing and selling weapons with no serial numbers that can be traced by PD.

[billzachos]

+1

 

[Jerry Johnson]

20 hours ago, Toby Vintage said:

Have you even tried to approach a gang and sort out weapon deals? I've seen on numerous occasions, weapons being sold from official gangs to smaller gangs and groups, it's not that hard. 

Now it's even better for gangs to make money and control the illegal firearms market by importing and selling weapons with no serial numbers that can be traced by PD.

How is this a good thing tho? Its better for gangs to make money, no its only better for official gangs 

Controlling the illegal firearms market, why would you want 1 or 2 gangs to have the monopoly on firearms on the server? how is this a good thing..

Edited April 14, 2019 by Jerry Johnson

[Toby Vintage]

15 hours ago, Jerry Johnson said:

How is this a good thing tho? Its better for gangs to make money, no its only better for official gangs 

Controlling the illegal firearms market, why would you want 1 or 2 gangs to have the monopoly on firearms on the server? how is this a good thing..

It would make more sense for a larger gang to control weapons trade than a smaller street gang with 2-4 members. 

 

Did you expect to just start up a gang and walk around with enough ak47s to support a small army? No.

[Marca]

All of these look like IC problems.

If a official gang is scamming people, they'll build up a bad reputation and a different gang will take advantage of the situation. Simply buying guns from stores while you're a convicted felon didn't make much sense RP wise. This is not GTA online where there are no real consequences if you do something bad. 

There are also other weapons you can use and other RP ways to get a hold of guns. The biggest problem I see is that people aren't willing to put effort into their RP to gain certain advantages. A lot of people got used to getting guns with little to no RP, by simply walking into a store and buying one, no matter what they did before or after. Considering this is a RP server and that 90% of people had a gun on them, it was pretty out of control. Hopefully now crime will also reduce.

[Yputi]

-1, I found this more realistic the way it is now. Weird how every criminal in the past could just get a gun license for only 10K after multiple attempted murders on government employees.

But maybe something for people in government factions to protect themselves (Bayview for example). Something they only have on-duty and that is not powerful , but will do the job?
 

Edited April 15, 2019 by Yputi

[Jbacon]

Members of the government factions can apply as anyone for a gun permit to carry a personal firearm, Bayciew and LSC employees are more then invited to apply for a permit and then can carry them depending on their company policies.

As to gangs importing guns, as everyone else has said this sounds more like an ic issue, gangs screwing gangs... sounds like good rp if you care to do it. I am certain there are plenty of ways to acquire a gun. As my criminal has recently acquired 2 SMGs strictly though rp. No killing, no robbing, and zero bullets fired. 

As for the claim that this is not realistic, I would like to point out the number of criminals in los santos vs the number for law abiding citizens..... excluding government employees (cops, medics, prison guards) you have mechanics and taxi drivers.... and the odd truck driver, where are your civilians who don't do crime? if you want to get into realism might I suggest you do an analysis comparing Los Santos to Los Vegas crime rates.... you would find that if we based it on realism there would be 2 cops for every one criminal based on the number of murders that happen in both our city and the real life one we are based off of. Realism.... isn't getting guns for nothing, and not everyone should or deserves to have access to them.

As to removing serial numbers from legally obtained weapons, I see no issue with that, but also would like to remind everyone that every single firearm that is sold in real life (at least here) has been discharged and the bullet catalogued for ballistic evidence for future use... meaning yes, remove the serial number, but the bullet you left in buddies body is tagged to a gun, that gun was bought at X store, by Y player.... meaning cops are coming knocking on Y players door looking for the gun that was bought at X store, and if he cant account for it player Y is going to jail.

So let them scratch off the serial numbers but add ballistic evidence for bullets that can be retrieved via testing and rp.