A Call for Balance: Addressing LEO Overreach and RP Disparities on ECRP

[Koji96]

I’ve been an active member of the ECRP community for the past six months, and during that time, I’ve had the privilege of participating in some of the most immersive and rewarding roleplay experiences of my entire journey. I share this feedback not out of frustration, but out of sincere care for the server and its future. My goal is to see ECRP grow into the best version of itself, for all players, regardless of faction.

Throughout my time here, I’ve primarily played on the criminal side, though I’ve built meaningful connections across both legal and illegal spheres. This dual perspective has given me a broader understanding of the server’s ecosystem, and it has also made clear a growing concern: the significant and arguably unchecked power imbalance favoring law enforcement factions.

Currently, law enforcement officers have access to elite weaponry, top-tier vehicles, and 150 armor points. These advantages can be replenished without any real consequence, even in the middle of ongoing conflicts. This creates an environment where LEOs can engage in high-risk shootouts with virtually no actual risk, effectively removing the stakes that make roleplay compelling. For criminal factions, it often feels less like storytelling and more like surviving a stacked deck.

Regrettably, most of my interactions with PD have been negative. I’ve encountered instances of powergaming, breaks in immersion, and an apparent focus on winning rather than collaborative roleplay. Far too often, narrative takes a back seat to control. This mindset not only undermines the criminal RP experience but also erodes the potential for meaningful, story-driven tension between factions.

That said, I want to recognize that my experiences with the Sheriff's Department and the Department of Corrections have largely been more positive. These interactions felt more balanced and grounded in realism. However, one issue still stands out: correctional officers regularly patrolling with heavy weapons inside the prison. Realistically, such loadouts should be limited to CERT teams and only deployed in response to verified, high-level threats. Their overuse detracts from immersion and further reinforces the perception of excessive force being normalized.

What concerns me most, however, is the way certain rule violations, particularly those involving LEO factions, are handled. I’ve witnessed multiple instances where blatant rule breaks were simply met with a scene reset, while other factions would have faced disciplinary action. This inconsistency fosters a perception of favoritism and undermines the sense of fairness that is vital to any healthy RP community.

Law enforcement is not, and should never be, placed above other factions. If ECRP aims to remain a respected, story-first server, we must apply consistent standards to all players, regardless of their role or affiliation. Roleplay thrives when it is rooted in balance, consequence, and mutual respect.

This is not a complaint made in anger. It is an invitation to reflect, recalibrate, and recommit to the principles that make roleplay meaningful: collaboration, creativity, and consequence.

Thank you for taking the time to read and consider these thoughts.

[Victor Einhart]

4 hours ago, Koji96 said:

It is an invitation to reflect, recalibrate, and recommit

If you could point me to things to reflect on, this would be much more helpful. With your post right now, there's nothing to go on except "officers break the rules" but no specifics which puts the onus entirely on me to figure out what's going wrong and where. I'm not infallible and my information isn't perfect, so if I look at operations for the 10th time in the past month and haven't found anything egregious that hasn't already been dealt with, that means this disagreement between your perspective and mine will just fester.

Also this post was written by AI, which only further deepens our disagreement and sows suspicion.

 

Edited May 4, 2025 by Victor Einhart

[tuccci]

Take better fights

 

Join PD/SD for perspective.

Edited May 4, 2025 by tuccci

[PufferBulletin]

12 hours ago, Koji96 said:

Regrettably, most of my interactions with PD have been negative. I’ve encountered instances of powergaming, breaks in immersion, and an apparent focus on winning rather than collaborative roleplay. Far too often, narrative takes a back seat to control.

This is where you lost me and whatever else you say makes me believe that it comes from your emotions rather than logical thinking.

If LEO's are breaking rules all the time yet they're not all banned, believe me crims are first ones to make the reports against PD rather than other way around. And when you actually look how many reports are made agaisnt PD there's not that many.

[Koji96]

2 hours ago, PufferBulletin said:

This is where you lost me and whatever else you say makes me believe that it comes from your emotions rather than logical thinking.

If LEO's are breaking rules all the time yet they're not all banned, believe me crims are first ones to make the reports against PD rather than other way around. And when you actually look how many reports are made agaisnt PD there's not that many.

"I’ve witnessed multiple instances where blatant rule breaks were simply met with a scene reset, while other factions would have faced disciplinary action." Perhaps because reports go nowhere. 

[Bala]

It's hard to have any sort of meaningful debate about something, when the words that someone posts are artificial slop. 

Congratulations, you've been here for six months. Those people who have decided who can do what and how, have been here for a significant amount of years. You would be hard pressed to find people that care more about the public perception of the PD faction than the people leading it, or that the faction follows the server rules as well as it's own faction rules.

Part of the reason cops don't tend to get in trouble for rule breaks, in comparison to criminals, is that the grounds for doing certain things are ingrained in the rules of the faction, they go hand in hand. People do get reported in our faction, people do get punished, on a weekly basis. If it's a significant punishment, it'll be public. 

In future, if you want to try and make some sort of a point here, use your own words man.

[Demonmit1]

49 minutes ago, Bala said:

Congratulations, you've been here for six months. Those people who have decided who can do what and how, have been here for a significant amount of years. You would be hard pressed to find people that care more about the public perception of the PD faction than the people leading it, or that the faction follows the server rules as well as it's own faction rules.

so, ive got just shy of 1100 hours on LEO, over 1300 hours on civ, and just shy of 1500 hours on crim. I have a pretty decent understanding of a lot of sides at this point.

I'm trying my best to say this the right way, and not be mean or rude or whatever, so work with me here.
I feel PD in their supervisory/command level of members have lost their way a bit with how to interact with criminal players. The reaction a PD member has to a general crim is way more... aggressive on average than other LEO factions. and this comes from the top down, as general patrol look to the supervisors and command staff as role models of how to act and react. You can tell who's had recent experience as a crim focused player who's taken the time to join PD/SD, and who hasnt. you can tell what supervisors/command have experience as crims and who hasnt. the ones that dont have any or recent experience of actually doing regular crim activity that are in supervisory or command roles typically more or less are the root of the problem from a LOT of these conversations that get had. I get that GnD is its own thing, but again... the issues come from the top down, and it was PD's GnD that had to make a public OOC statement about chilling out. Comparisons are hard not to make, and if you look at SD's ACO/CO/supervisor list, vs PD's ACO/CO/supervisor list, who has more players that have active or well known crim alts? from the crim perspective, it feels like LSPD leadership doesnt have the capabilities to see the issue from a crim perspective, as so many of them never had any experience or no recent experience as a crim.

Then these posts get made, and people in command positions of PD make comments, some, constructive like you most of the time Bala, and like Victor, but there are others that are in command positions that will make remarks, are entirely dismissive, and actively start arguments and its just... a mess and makes crim have more OOC frustration as a whole with the entirety of the PD faction.

Edited May 5, 2025 by Demonmit1

[Bala]

45 minutes ago, Demonmit1 said:

so, ive got just shy of 1100 hours on LEO, over 1300 hours on civ, and just shy of 1500 hours on crim. I have a pretty decent understanding of a lot of sides at this point.

I'm trying my best to say this the right way, and not be mean or rude or whatever, so work with me here.
I feel PD in their supervisory/command level of members have lost their way a bit with how to interact with criminal players. The reaction a PD member has to a general crim is way more... aggressive on average than other LEO factions. and this comes from the top down, as general patrol look to the supervisors and command staff as role models of how to act and react. You can tell who's had recent experience as a crim focused player who's taken the time to join PD/SD, and who hasnt. you can tell what supervisors/command have experience as crims and who hasnt. the ones that dont have any or recent experience of actually doing regular crim activity that are in supervisory or command roles typically more or less are the root of the problem from a LOT of these conversations that get had. I get that GnD is its own thing, but again... the issues come from the top down, and it was PD's GnD that had to make a public OOC statement about chilling out. Comparisons are hard not to make, and if you look at SD's ACO/CO/supervisor list, vs PD's ACO/CO/supervisor list, who has more players that have active or well known crim alts? from the crim perspective, it feels like LSPD leadership doesnt have the capabilities to see the issue from a crim perspective, as so many of them never had any experience or no recent experience as a crim.

Then these posts get made, and people in command positions of PD make comments, some, constructive like you most of the time Bala, and like Victor, but there are others that are in command positions that will make remarks, are entirely dismissive, and actively start arguments and its just... a mess and makes crim have more OOC frustration as a whole with the entirety of the PD faction.

At the end of the day, there is a small percentage of the complaints that people have against PD that are legitimate complaints. By legitimate complaints, I mean times in which we've actually fucked something to the point someone else has to step in and correct it.

The majority of time, it's either people making accusations without actually knowing the extent of a situation (because we don't broadcast how we do things) or simply, because a situation didn't go the way that person wanted it to, then it was "wrong".

You mention "PD's GND that had to make a public OOC statement." but respectfully, we didn't have to do shit. Legal Faction Management didn't ask us to ease up, it came from Pazz who is the faction leader of PD. It was met with differing opinions but we were committed to following that, right up until the point when criminal players started trying to use that statement against our faction members OOC. At that point, we withdrew the statement and we continued to act within the boundaries set for us by Legal Faction Management.

We have a literal section on the GOV forums, for roleplay feedback, where we have a dialogue with criminals about how we handle situations and where we could improve. I'll be honest, there are some real care bears in PD's leadership when it comes to how people perceive us, to the point where I don't always agree with how much of a platform we give people.

I don't personally think a lot of the people that complain a lot actually want things to change, they just want to moan at somebody.

We're the main antagonist for criminals on the server. We're given all our resources for free, we have a lot of resources while you can lose yours, we send people to a prison people don't enjoy being in and we're pretty rigid in doing so. We're an easy target for people's frustrations, not just in-character but out of character as well. You can't talk shit about the founders, you'll get banned. You can't talk about the staff team, you'll get banned or de-tiered. If you make suggestions about the script, you're ignored. So, you come for the next best thing, which is the PD faction.

PD has to deal with some real difficult people whether they're being vile/abusive, flat out argumentative and refuse to role-play or are just here to fuck about. That doesn't make a lot of us particular sensitive to your view points. We're more than capable of acknowledging and addressing our shortcomings, but when we do, it doesn't really capture the imagination like when we don't.

A lot of us in PD aren't stupid either though, we fully realize that we need each other to enjoy our time on the server more and I'll tell you right now, we're about to hopefully embark on a consultation period on how we can better improve the criminal activities on the server to make them more engaging and rewarding to be involved in, both for crims and cops alike. Whether that bares any fruit, I don't know but that's coming from me, a long time and full time cop.

End of the day, if you as a crim, are enjoying your time on the server, you'll play more so we'll have more to do and you're less likely to be abusive because you're playing with a smile.

[Demonmit1]

Like, i genuinely get what you mean when there's just these random crim players that are outright refusing to play along at all cost, I deal with at least one person like that every time im on duty, if not multiple times a day, but its almost never from the regulars. and its the regulars that are here making these posts complaining about PD's mentality. The randoms dont give a shit and just quit the server.

Law enforcement play judge, jury, and executioner, while also being expected to be mini mods enforcing rules to an extent, so yeah, LEO's are regularly a target of criticism, as they realistically should be held to a higher standard, but PD isnt the low man on the totem pole in the line of criticism, Devs, and staff regularly get their own criticism their way too.
 

22 minutes ago, Bala said:

we're about to hopefully embark on a consultation period on how we can better improve the criminal activities on the server to make them more engaging and rewarding to be involved in, both for crims and cops alike.

This is something that should be brought up publicly. depending on how this goes this could be very interesting. You talk about RP feedback, but the wording and the intent behind "RP feedback" section feels like its too big for most situations. From the crim perspective, I really like the concept LSSD has for an OOC IA report. if PD had a plan to integrate something of that sort that would probably be well received, but we circle back to the issue of LSPD leadership having minimal to no crim experience, and we'd have the issue of LSPD command staff reviewing it without the context and experience of the crim perspective. there would need to be a way to solve that.

i dont know the solution, but there's been some good ideas given over the plethora of cop vs crim threads if youre able to filter through the garbage.

[Demonmit1]

One more thing i wanted to touch on before i go to sleep.

BBCode is daunting for most players to look at and use. IA, OOC IA, RP Feedback, is all buried behind catagories and full of BBCode making it overall quite confusing to someone who doesnt have any BBCode experience. Considering that all the LEO factions and even Civ factions have "tools" to simplify submitting paperwork and reports that convert their text to the proper BBCode, the fact nothing like that exists for the general public playerbase is a massive deterrent for the general playerbase to actually follow through on. @Victor Einhart @Bala Y'all ask for people to make IA reports, RP feedback etc, but crims dont interact with BBCode every day like y'all do. make it easier to get feedback the way you want to get feedback, and you'll get it the way you want it rather than here on the forums.

[MrSilky]

2 hours ago, Demonmit1 said:

From the crim perspective, I really like the concept LSSD has for an OOC IA report

What is the difference between LSSD and LSPD’s OOC IA reports?

2 hours ago, Demonmit1 said:

LSPD leadership having minimal to no crim experience

The leader of the faction mained a criminal character for 4.5 years. The co-leader of the faction has 4300 hours on a criminal character and has been consistently active across their 6 years in the community.

2 hours ago, Demonmit1 said:

LSPD command staff reviewing it without the context and experience of the crim perspective

Bold assumption - we actually discuss reports such as these at length OOC and include active criminal RPers in said discussions for full clarity. For IC reports, IA are reviewing the faction members actions against faction policy. For OOC reports, other considerations are made with staff input also.

1 hour ago, Demonmit1 said:

BBCode is daunting for most players to look at and use

It can be, but the formats given to the public are extremely user friendly. Simply copy, paste and replace [TEXT HERE] with your answer. There is also a very useful BBCODE help tool on the FAQs.

—————

As I say to every thread of this nature, if there is actually something wrong, you have to tell us. Flores and I are more than happy for PMs on discord with complaints or feedback if you don’t want to use the tools on the gov forums.

We constantly hear “PD bad” but are rarely given anything to quantify it, and when there is a valid complaint, you’d be hard pressed to find a time it was ignored and no action was taken.

[Quietthecutie]

Skull Emoji.

I suppose then its unsurprising that there's no real point to anything you're saying. simply the searing hot take: "PD bad." 

A lot of stuff you fed into whatever AI you used you are either making bold assumptions or are just flat out factually incorrect.

Also, being here 6 months then generating a puff piece about reflecting on nuances staff have worked for years to find balance on is more than a little patronising.

In general this post is just not a good look. It appears too narrow minded to be an informed opinion and too lazy to be properly expressed.

Go home and try again, on your own this time.

Edited May 5, 2025 by Quietthecutie

[Throwaway]

On 5/5/2025 at 4:30 PM, Quietthecutie said:

Skull Emoji.

I suppose then its unsurprising that there's no real point to anything you're saying. simply the searing hot take: "PD bad." 

A lot of stuff you fed into whatever AI you used you are either making bold assumptions or are just flat out factually incorrect.

Also, being here 6 months then generating a puff piece about reflecting on nuances staff have worked for years to find balance on is more than a little patronising.

In general this post is just not a good look. It appears too narrow minded to be an informed opinion and too lazy to be properly expressed.

Go home and try again, on your own this time.

QuietCutie, I wouldn't recommend using Scribbr as an Artificial Intelligence Detection Tool. It's not very good. ZeroGPT indicates there is a small chance this submission has been constructed entirely by artificial intelligence but it is possible it's been used at least in part.

The post is well written and hits the spot appropriately here. One assumes that we have all actually interacted with law enforcement. It would be difficult to argue that the immersion isn't broken by the constant use of heavy machine guns and other-such-weaponry. 

Yes, EC-RP is a fictional roleplay environment-- but wouldn't you rather it was realistic?

This is most noticeable in a prison environment, it feels amateurish to be wielding heavy weaponry outside of a hostage situation.

I'd be interested to hear from @Koji96what sort of examples he could give of power gaming and other such rule breaks.,

 

 

Edited May 6, 2025 by Throwaway

[Asbo]

19 minutes ago, Throwaway said:

QuietCutie, I wouldn't recommend using Scribbr as an Artificial Intelligence Detection Tool. It's not very good. ZeroGPT indicates there is a small chance this submission has been constructed entirely by artificial intelligence but it is possible it's been used at least in part.

The post is well written and hits the spot appropriately here. One assumes that we have all actually interacted with law enforcement. It would be difficult to argue that the immersion isn't broken by the constant use of heavy machine guns and other-such-weaponry. 

Yes, EC-RP is a fictional roleplay environment-- but wouldn't you rather it was realistic?

This is most noticeable in a prison environment, it feels amateurish to be wielding heavy weaponry outside of a hostage situation.

I'd be interested to hear from @Koji96what sort of examples he could give of power gaming and other such rule breaks.,

post on main little bro

[Quietthecutie]

52 minutes ago, Throwaway said:

constant use of heavy machine guns and other-such-weaponry. 

First off, no one constantly uses HMGs. that is a wild statement. Typically of all the LEOs in either faction about a good 75% of them do not have access to any heavy weapon besides the pump shotgun. Of the remaining 25% less than half have access to anything except the shotgun or the standard SMG. of the remaining people, they must seek permission of a supervisor before deploying specialist weapons like the MG or the Sniper. I'd recommend you actually try playing LEO. It might give you a better perspective on things.

1 hour ago, Throwaway said:

I wouldn't recommend using Scribbr

Second off, this isnt Scribbr.

Third off, as has been said MANY Times before. LEOs having heavies on their backs is necessary because at any moment, a crim can instantly equip AP and their own heavy of choice. this happens instantly though the glovebox mechanic. which is why LEOs cannot just unrack heavies for specific situations. they need to be able to react to this instant changing of the situation.

If you wanted to have something like that considered, a timer for equipping items out of the glove box would have to be added with a /fme to show LEOs what is happening. either that or have it so heavy weapons can only be stored in the trunk of vehicles.

[RustyOsprey2]

Ive been a criminal for a while not, definitely not a long as others not even close but for a while. I have also been a part of various legal jobs such as PD, LSEMS, DOC etc. The only issue i can actually see is the usage of Assault Rifles. Most Detectives and other PO3+ ranks (i think those are the ranks at least) always patrol with an assault rifle on their back 24/7, regardless if they are doing a simple traffic stop or going into a dangerous situation. Same thing with lower ranked people PO2, PO3 within PD, they always have a shotgun on their back regardless of what they are doing.

I have no clue regarding SD as i have never been a part of that faction, but this is the only issue i have seen with PD as of recently. People mention the over-usage of high-speeds and AIR. But to be honest, they are only ever deployed against other high-speed vehicles, same for PD bikes.

This is like the 20000th post complaining about PD / SD, and it literally just says the exact same thing. OP this, OP that. But you have to kinda see it from a logical point as well. If PD was any weaker, criminals would just be having it way easier, which would just ruin the fun for others who arent criminals.

Edited May 9, 2025 by RustyOsprey2

[Koji96]

2 hours ago, Bala said:

At the end of the day, there is a small percentage of the complaints that people have against PD that are legitimate complaints. By legitimate complaints, I mean times in which we've actually fucked something to the point someone else has to step in and correct it.

The majority of time, it's either people making accusations without actually knowing the extent of a situation (because we don't broadcast how we do things) or simply, because a situation didn't go the way that person wanted it to, then it was "wrong".

You mention "PD's GND that had to make a public OOC statement." but respectfully, we didn't have to do shit. Legal Faction Management didn't ask us to ease up, it came from Pazz who is the faction leader of PD. It was met with differing opinions but we were committed to following that, right up until the point when criminal players started trying to use that statement against our faction members OOC. At that point, we withdrew the statement and we continued to act within the boundaries set for us by Legal Faction Management.

We have a literal section on the GOV forums, for roleplay feedback, where we have a dialogue with criminals about how we handle situations and where we could improve. I'll be honest, there are some real care bears in PD's leadership when it comes to how people perceive us, to the point where I don't always agree with how much of a platform we give people.

I don't personally think a lot of the people that complain a lot actually want things to change, they just want to moan at somebody.

We're the main antagonist for criminals on the server. We're given all our resources for free, we have a lot of resources while you can lose yours, we send people to a prison people don't enjoy being in and we're pretty rigid in doing so. We're an easy target for people's frustrations, not just in-character but out of character as well. You can't talk shit about the founders, you'll get banned. You can't talk about the staff team, you'll get banned or de-tiered. If you make suggestions about the script, you're ignored. So, you come for the next best thing, which is the PD faction.

PD has to deal with some real difficult people whether they're being vile/abusive, flat out argumentative and refuse to role-play or are just here to fuck about. That doesn't make a lot of us particular sensitive to your view points. We're more than capable of acknowledging and addressing our shortcomings, but when we do, it doesn't really capture the imagination like when we don't.

A lot of us in PD aren't stupid either though, we fully realize that we need each other to enjoy our time on the server more and I'll tell you right now, we're about to hopefully embark on a consultation period on how we can better improve the criminal activities on the server to make them more engaging and rewarding to be involved in, both for crims and cops alike. Whether that bares any fruit, I don't know but that's coming from me, a long time and full time cop.

End of the day, if you as a crim, are enjoying your time on the server, you'll play more so we'll have more to do and you're less likely to be abusive because you're playing with a smile.

You bring up the roleplay feedback forum, I've given feedback on said forum. Thought the feedback I gave was constructive feedback. I pointed out several flaws that PD did during the hostage situation at city hall. The "negotiator" and I use that term very loosely, did an awful job. His "negotiation" was "there's more of us than you, good luck." He showed ZERO concern for the hostage's life, none. PD breeched the room while the hostage was still ALIVE and sprayed everyone in the room down and while doing so mind you, they also wounded the hostage that in the forum they proclaimed they showed so much concern for. I've never seen a more blatant example of a "W" mentality and to pretend like there isn't one within PD is disingenuous. Mind you, I doubt any change will come with that feedback.  "PD has to deal with some real difficult people whether they're being vile/abusive, flat out argumentative and refuse to role-play or are just here to fuck about." I want to put extra emphasis on "being vile/abusive, flat out argumentative". They are roleplaying police officers. If they cannot handle a player saying mean things to them then they probably shouldn't be roleplaying a cop that works for a municipality nor are they entitled to any iccly respect just because they're roleplaying a police officer. The very last interaction I had with PD, I had a moderator use the /drag command for the entire arrest, zero effort to whatsoever to RP. None. I assure you this will be the last time I make a post regarding my concerns due to certain members of this community acting like adolescent children when someone says their favorite toy sucks. It's really disappointing but I think some of these comments encapsulates the toxicity among PD in this server. I expected better from some long-time server veterans. 

[Koji96]

On 5/7/2025 at 8:04 PM, Ritchie Stones said:

i think every PD should get a auto lock bazooka

Coming soon

[Salvador Rivera]

On 5/5/2025 at 7:11 AM, Demonmit1 said:

so, ive got just shy of 1100 hours on LEO, over 1300 hours on civ, and just shy of 1500 hours on crim. I have a pretty decent understanding of a lot of sides at this point.

I'm trying my best to say this the right way, and not be mean or rude or whatever, so work with me here.
I feel PD in their supervisory/command level of members have lost their way a bit with how to interact with criminal players. The reaction a PD member has to a general crim is way more... aggressive on average than other LEO factions. and this comes from the top down, as general patrol look to the supervisors and command staff as role models of how to act and react. You can tell who's had recent experience as a crim focused player who's taken the time to join PD/SD, and who hasnt. you can tell what supervisors/command have experience as crims and who hasnt. the ones that dont have any or recent experience of actually doing regular crim activity that are in supervisory or command roles typically more or less are the root of the problem from a LOT of these conversations that get had. I get that GnD is its own thing, but again... the issues come from the top down, and it was PD's GnD that had to make a public OOC statement about chilling out. Comparisons are hard not to make, and if you look at SD's ACO/CO/supervisor list, vs PD's ACO/CO/supervisor list, who has more players that have active or well known crim alts? from the crim perspective, it feels like LSPD leadership doesnt have the capabilities to see the issue from a crim perspective, as so many of them never had any experience or no recent experience as a crim.

Then these posts get made, and people in command positions of PD make comments, some, constructive like you most of the time Bala, and like Victor, but there are others that are in command positions that will make remarks, are entirely dismissive, and actively start arguments and its just... a mess and makes crim have more OOC frustration as a whole with the entirety of the PD faction.

Finally someone is talking about what's really going on and isn't afraid to tell others about it. Because many people don't like it when the truth is spoken about them. But the problem is much deeper. 

[Homast]

On 5/6/2025 at 1:48 PM, Throwaway said:

Yes, EC-RP is a fictional roleplay environment-- but wouldn't you rather it was realistic?

That's it, I'm taking the bait.
Let me ask you the same question.

Would you prefer paying the same rates with less income? ECRP has a highly inflated economy, but Guns IRL, Illegal guns, are expensive, ESPECIALLY the bigger you get.  It is near unthinkable and unheard of having Criminal gangs go around with much more than a Draco AT MOST. You never hear of Criminals doing Crime and getting into statewide shootouts with Military level Arms.

And let me flip the script on you AGAIN, When faced with a situation like multi-gang shootouts, or as you said about it being "Amateurish" Hostage situations, Who's going to answer those calls 99% of the time? That's right, a SWAT Style element of your Police, County Sheriffs, or State Police. What are these SWAT elements going to have? Certainly not pistols and pea-shooters like your delusion leads you to believe.

 

On 5/8/2025 at 10:38 PM, RustyOsprey2 said:

The only issue i can actually see is the usage of Assault Rifles. Most Detectives and other PO3+ ranks

If you want to bring up that issue, Allow me to paint you the picture.

A Criminal on average only has to go into their glovebox to grab their heavy, If they're already in their car, Very fast, very easy.
A Law Enforcement Player needs to type a command, scroll using their arrow keys until they find the weapon they want, hit enter, exit out of Loadout menu, and then they could start returning fire.

Average time comparison would come out to 2-4 Seconds for Criminal, and 10-15 seconds for FAST LEO player depending on if they're in any specialised divisions or not.

I've seen it said a many time by many people, This shit is an ouroboros effect.
Criminal increase threat -> Cop Increase Threat -> Criminal get loud -> Cop get loud -> Criminal make Cop not enjoy playing server-> Cop going to make criminal not enjoy playing server -> Crim Side die -> Cop Side Die -> Crim Reduce Threat -> Cop Reduce Threat -> Crim Side Pick Up -> Cop Side Pick up -> Criminal Increase Threat AD INFINITUM

In ANY RP sense, any change that is going to come about, without being hamfisted by Management, NEEDS to come from Crim side first fundamentally, Because what Cops do is a direct response to what Crims do. Instead of pointing fingers across the table, start looking at your side of the table and hold each other responsible for how absolutely fucked of a situation it's become for all of us.

 

[Homast]

On 5/8/2025 at 11:52 PM, Koji96 said:

If they cannot handle a player saying mean things to them then they probably shouldn't be roleplaying a cop that works for a municipality nor are they entitled to any iccly respect just because they're roleplaying a police officer

Allow me to dissect this, Because while I do respect your point and agree with it to a degree, It's a flawed argument for one very simple reason:

The Vast majority of people who get loud and start being rude to other players, not just LEO players, do so in a way that in my opinion, constitutes as mixing. Saying shit like "Get a life" and "You must have been bullied in high school"  and other such things. Everyone here knows it for a fact. Shit talk, very often devolves or starts as a jab aimed at the person behind the screen and not the character. So when someone feels they're being personally insulted, Yes it's going to make them react in a more aggressive manner. You may ask: "why not report it then" because more often than not, It's simply not worth it and it'll subject you to even FURTHER ire from the person who started it in the first place.

Everyone ego checks everyone, some people fall for it, But can you realistically blame them when it's veiled personal attacks?

 

[Teenyinnit]

On 5/4/2025 at 1:53 PM, tuccci said:

Take better fights

 

Join PD/SD for perspective.

Hello! I did join PD and SD and a lot of times I largely disagree with how some situations are handled by my fellow officers.

 

I agree that some officers/deputies have no interest in immersive roleplay at all

[Teenyinnit]

On 5/6/2025 at 8:00 PM, Quietthecutie said:

Third off, as has been said MANY Times before. LEOs having heavies on their backs is necessary because at any moment, a crim can instantly equip AP and their own heavy of choice. this happens instantly though the glovebox mechanic. which is why LEOs cannot just unrack heavies for specific situations. they need to be able to react to this instant changing of the situation.
 

hey so to add to this, the heavies thing is regulated. i've received faction punishments for carrying one too much

[Teenyinnit]

ok so I've read all of this and I see both sides:

 

Crim: yes its fucking annoying being pulled over for no reason and then having the IA reports fall on deaf ears or be stretched to justify when there's a clear law violation, you lose cash, time and money and before you go to jail you want to have some fun with RP, maybe shit talk a little or try and get a one up on the cop. It sucks feeling like you have zero choice in how a scene plays out, but that it realism in it's finest form.
from the crim perspective it would be great to have a slightly friendlier approach to policing, in stead of shutting down questions such as "why am I being pulled over" - "I'll tell you when you give me you licence", maybe actually roleplay and tell them the reason? it serves no purpose to withold certain information and licence = citation/warrant so naturally it will feel like you're being forced into something.

on the flip side I've seen many situations where police have been too aggressive and this hasn't been used as escalation, don't like the way an officer shouted at you? make him pay... you're a criminal, make RP with him and they will likely want the RP. IA reports aren't the only way to resolve thing if you're a crim. Be inventive.

 

LEO: I've been PD and SD since August 2024, and have real life experience as a police staff member training cadets in PACE, Escalation and Probable cause.
Just like in real life there are officers I don't agree with and officers I think do an outstanding job. Not everyone has experience in policing and so they don't have the automatic shut off that you get when clocked in, there isn't the absolute barrier because they are trained in a video game.

In real life I would never DREAM of approaching a vehicle and not giving reasonable explanation for a stop when asked. - but this is because I'm not an American cop, I'm British and we are trained differently and therefore expect different things from officers, such as fairness and a calm demeanour - which largely comes from not being surrounded by illegal firearms.

Police have the legal obligation to protect and serve, and unfortunately police DO have to justify their actions on a daily basis, in this server however we don't tend to.

I can assure you, when an IA report goes through, action is taken.
I currently in 6 months of PD have 3 admonishments, and three suspensions all based on activities which are minor in nature but are taken seriously.

Suspension - not getting a car out of impound when someone swore at me. 
Suspension - getting kidnapped in the wrong way (even after I'd died)
Admin leave - due to my corruption perms (which are now public knowledge)
Admonishment - having my carbine on my back too often.
Admonishment - driving unsafely
Admonishment - not doing paperwork in a high enough quality.

We get a lot of shit as LEOs that crims don't see. and I'm considered a friendly "Good" cop.
there are higher ups in PD that I don't always agree with, but if you ask for their advice they will sit down and talk you through it like you're a human being, even if they don't like you, because even OOCly they do act in a professional capacity.

 

PD and crim is an extremely hard balance. Yes PD could be more chill and friendly to crims, but then where is the line drawn?

[Bala]

The actual balancing isn't the hard part, it's convincing people that the split isn't supposed to be 50/50 because the roles are different. Criminals have the advantage right up until the moment they act, then it swings in favor of the cops for the reaction as cops are reactionary in nature. They do X because you do Y but without your X, they can't do Y.

Ultimately, you cannot please everyone but the best solutions are sometimes the ones that sting the most people the least times.

PD and SD are products of their environment, as are the criminal factions.