LSPD RP Overhaul + Standard of RP

[Cyrus Raven]

Dear Eclipse Community, 

 

It is my first time posting on the forums, although I have been playing for the last few weeks. As many of you, I come from an extensive background of RP servers. From GMOD light RP servers to SAMP hardcore RP servers like NGG, PLA, SARP. 

The reason why I mention the above credentials is because I, like many of you, have been playing for a long time on RP servers, specifically hardcore RP servers, so it comes as a surprise that a hardcore RP server like Eclipse who has such a strict entry requirement for players would then be able to foster probably one of the worst police forces and RP system for police that I have ever seen, even compared to light RP servers. 

 

Let me elaborate.

 

There is NO accountability for the actions of the police force. The way the Police force is run right now essentially means that a player more often than not is forced to accept any crazy charges the police conjures up and he/she has no way to fight these in RP. This essentially means that at the moment if you are charged with something that you know 100% OOC you DID NOT do, you have no way in RP of contesting this. Very very few cops will ever engage in /do or /me to figure out the truth of a matter and investigate a situation, most of them just bring you to DOC or mission row, slap you with whatever charges they were told to give you and bam, you get 120 mins in jail for something that you didn't do.

 

Example:

A gang member gets into a chase with the cops in a black dominator, he manages to evade the police and escape. However, 2 minutes later the police find another black dominator (me). They start chasing the black dominator and because I have outstanding tickets I will also attempt to run from the police.

Eventually, the cops manage to perform a PIT maneuver and disable my vehicle, I get out of the car, get down on my knees and am put in restrains. After the usual quick /me and /do to frisk, cuff and place me in the back of a cop car I get brought to either DOC or Misson Row PD. I get placed in a cell and when I ask the officer for my charges he tells me ''Felony Evading x2, Assault with a deadly weapon, attempted murder of an LEO'', to which my reaction is one of disbelief and anger. 

At this point, I am smacked with a 20k fine, put in jail for 120 mins and everyone moves on with their day while I rot in jail.

 

Does anyone see a problem with this example ? How in the world in a HARDCORE RP server, is a player UNABLE to defend themselves, ask for a lawyer or even interact with an officer to dispute the charges. Why is it that cops can essentially PG your charges ?

 

The problem lies in the RP standard of the cop force. Generally speaking, most cops want to get into a chase or gunfight, put you in cuffs and bring you to jail all as quick as possible, there is NO semblance of an attempt to RP with the player and to find out what happened by RP'ing forensics, Gunshot residue tests, Dashcams as evidence, etc... 

 

Having said all this here are the suggestions I purpose (Keep in mind that these aren't mutually exclusive, pick and chose the ones you want to support/implement)

 

 

• Enforce a higher standard of RP by overhauling the police SOPs - Make it clear that officers should have very compelling evidence to charge someone - Make it clear that officers should analyze the suspect, suspect's vehicle and suspect's possessions for evidence linking him to the crimes he is being charged with - Make it clear that officers are to have dashcam recordings as proof in order to arrest someone for a certain charge (if you don't have recording software then it is your DUTY to ask players through /do to acquire the truth as players cannot lie in a /do)
• Add a legal system or some sort of system that allows players to dispute charges. Either by introducing a public defender system, allowing the players to defend themselves, or contract another player roleplaying as a lawyer. 
• Reduce the fines and/or jail time for players who decide to NOT contest the charges and to accept their jail time, thus giving the player a choice of whether they want to RP defending themselves and potentially taking a while or if they just want to get it over with. 

 

 

 

• LAST SUGGESTION: If all of the suggestions above get denied then the last thing I would suggest is to do SOMETHING to fix this. If you don't like the suggestions I made feel free to make any other in the comments or come up with a few solutions between members of staff. I'll repeat it again, it is UNACCEPTABLE to be known as a hardcore RP server and then have such a low RP level in the police force combined with a jail system that offers no options to the players and powergames them into accepting whatever fate is decided for them. 

 

 

 

 

 

P.S. Whenever I mentioned the police force being bad or their RP being bad I don't necessarily mean the players are bad. What I mean is that the way the police force has been told to act through their guidebook combined with the lack of ways people are able to RP their charges has resulted in a shit police system.

Edited March 30, 2019 by Kyle White Raven

[clickclack]

+1 Well said, also I might want to suggest to use a "Force continuum". It gives fair balance and experience in both sides.

Edited March 30, 2019 by clickclack

[Cyrus Raven]

2 minutes ago, clickclack said:

+1 Well said, also I might want to suggest to use a "Force continuum". Even a SAMP light RP server I used to roleplay in uses it and it gives fair balance and experience in both sides. 

+1 

 

Forgot about this. There have been times where I will get my tires shot just because I was ''driving a similar car to an earlier suspect''. So having a Force Continuum in place would enforce a higher standard of RP.

 

 

An example of this is a situation today. I got told to stop because I had a similar car and one of the cops shot me, now, in all honesty, he did claim it was ''mc'' in OOC chat after, but I'm fairly certain the reason he shot was because he thought I was driving away, when in fact I was only complying with the demands made by the other officer and he didn't want to look like an idiot.

 

https://plays.tv/video/5c9f7a211ae5657791/10-10-police-rp-

[LiveTrash]

I find it odd why they charged you with the Attempted Murder charges and such that were tagged to the other fellow in the other Black Dominator. Obviously who ever was chasing had no valid description of you or even a plate of the vehicle, so they couldn't verify that it was indeed you or not. Things like that don't usually happen, at least not in the situations I've been involved in.

Edited March 30, 2019 by LiveTrash

[Cyrus Raven]

3 minutes ago, LiveTrash said:

I find it odd why they charged you with the Attempted Murder charges and such that were tagged to the other fellow in the other Black Dominator. Obviously who ever was chasing had no valid description of you or even a plate of the vehicle, so they couldn't verify that it was indeed you or not. Things like that don't usually happen, at least not in the situations I've been involved in.

I understand and the thing is it would be great if I could argue these points with a lawyer present or just myself, but the willingness for some officers to listen and RP seems to be very diminished.

 

Having said that, I understand that my experience is anecdotal and it might not reflect the entirety of the police department, but since it happens to me some many times I felt like I had to make a suggestion on it. My main problem is definitely the lack of RP when it comes to contesting charges given.

[Osborn]

1 hour ago, Hoxton_Curry said:

+1 

pd could use some tweaks 

I think you are the last person to talk about RP quality, Hoxton.

https://streamable.com/0mofc

OT: As Enzo said, PD is heavily regulated both IC and OOC, we send constant reminders about RP quality to our members. If you've got an incident where you disagree with the RP, or if you disagree In Character, file an Internal Affairs report and it will be investigated, we've got many investigators in Internal Affairs now investigating both IC and OOC reports. Officers are held accountable both IC and OOC and if someone is falsely put in prison, they are compensated.

[Cyrus Raven]

 

15 minutes ago, ImSuspensee said:

Hello! I'd just like to give a view from the other side. To say we power game constantly is far from the truth. Our PD handbook states that an officers word is enough to add charges. If an officer IDs someone as a suspect, charges get added. There is an IA section in the PD Forums to file complaints, both IC and OOC. There is also the Player Reports section. PD is tasked with dealing with, well, everyone shit to be quite frank. New players who don't understand RP, trolls, and yes, rule breakers. To point things out, look at the Player Reports section right now. It is at least 90% against people who are not in the police force. To solve your issues with the server, maybe start there. EVERY and when I say every I don't mean most, EVERY time I go to pull someone over they evade. They evade, shoot at the cops to get away, and we we return fire on them after THEY initiated, THEY call backup to kill the cops. Most of the times, they are being pulled over for speeding, or something that won't result in an arrest. Every time we get someone in cuffs, it is instantly KOS on every cop on the scene. If PD were to do this to the criminal factions, it would be a shit storm. You can kill me and six cops standing around your friend... why? Because we look the same as the cop arresting your friend? Applied to the other side, if your friend is shooting at us, we don't gun him and everyone around him down. I was literally loading someone into a cruiser to take him to MD yesterday and started to get shot in the back because he though I was arresting his friend. People are too quick to KOS the cops on the server. People take SWAT as a challenge and not as a threat because they know they have 30 people on contenders around the corner. To say PD doesn't have people who break the rules would not be true, it is the same for both sides. People who take PD serious and like playing it do not want people in PD to break the rules, but they need to be reported. If you don't make a report on the person making the problem, there will be no solution, and you can't say all of PD is the issue. We also have a gigantic PD Handbook that we have to follow, along with the rule book, while anyone else can just run around and do what they want. Long story short, you want change, try and remove the issue, and PD isn't being removed.

 

Here is something to look at: 

Handbook Titles: 

 

Topics that are forced to be manually R&U'd (Read and Understood with a comment): 

 

Internal Reminder: 

 

Internal Reminder: 

 

Our Discharge List. People who do poor RP get punished: https://gov.eclipse-rp.net/viewforum.php?f=127

 

Summary: To say PD is not regulated is false, and to say people are not held responsible is false. PD is HEAVILY regulated. SWAT for example as well has many many internal rules. If you have an issue with an officer, please utilize our Internal Affairs report section found here: https://gov.eclipse-rp.net/viewforum.php?f=24

6

 

Firstly, I would like to thank you for the lengthy and well-thought response, I am glad to know that LSPD does seemingly have a quite lengthy handbook and procedures that advise and expect officers to uphold a high standard of RP. 

 

However, let me address a few points.

 

''To say we power game constantly is far from the truth.''   - What I meant when I mentioned power gaming is how civilians are unable to do anything if they want to dispute a charge by an officer. Now, as someone mentioned, you can go to IA for an IC issue or the forums for an OOC issue, but this shouldn't be the standard in my opinion. Being able to simply sit down in a room and have a talk with the arresting officer or someone in charge for a major crime is something basic of any RP server that has a police force, this is my main contention with the police force. Players should be able to talk to officers through a series of dialogue and /me and /do to determine what the truth is. I reject that a Hardcore RP server is able to imprison players with little to no RP while at the same time not allowing self-representation, court hearing, etc...  I don't think that there is an inherent problem with corrupt RP or even cops RP'ing normally and making mistakes, this is an RP server after all. However, if you combine this behavior with the inability for players to control the outcome of the RP then it becomes similar to power gaming.

 

''Our PD handbook states that an officers word is enough to add charges. If an officer IDs someone as a suspect, charges get added.''  - This goes into what I explained above. This is a one-way street that gives cops total control of the situation. If there was a system in game where you can collect evidence from the car to see if it was involved in a hit and run or GSR tests on the suspect, etc.. then it would be fine, not much someone can do against hard evidence. However, as it stands an officer can charge you for virtually whatever he wants and you literally can't do anything at the time. You can't RP asking for a lawyer, you can't defend yourself, you can't even use /do to tell him the truth (from my experience officers usually ignore these or respond with something like ''I saw it''. 

Then the solution for this as some will say is ''Go to IA'', well excuse me but why would I waste my time IC or OOC filing reports for something that was done to me with little effort. This seems like a really backward mentality scenario. Would I purpose is that officers try and conduct their jobs using RP in a better way to avoid these issues. 

If you suspect me from a hit and run and you want to charge me with it then RP with me, use /me and /do on the car and ask ME the PLAYER if there is any damage to the car or if any blood can be seen and we as players will make an effort to answer these questions in RP and hopefully change the officers mind if the RP indicates that in fact I did not hit and run.

What SHOULDN'T be done is ''Oh I think I might have seen you run someone over, so you're gonna get charged with assault with a deadly weapon and there is nothing you can do about it''

 

 

As for the rest of your post, I agree. New players are a pain in the ass and you are correct, sadly the norm right now is to get into fights and always run away from cops. However, just because this is a problem it doesn't mean that we should be normalizing these types of actions by the cops. What we should do is aim to elevate both roleplay standards from the civilians and the cops, together, to actually create a hardcore RP server that is representative of the reputation this server has and not this Arma 3/gmod standard we have right now.

32 minutes ago, FatherOsborn said:

As Enzo said, PD is heavily regulated both IC and OOC, we send constant reminders about RP quality to our members. If you've got an incident where you disagree with the RP, or if you disagree In Character, file an Internal Affairs report and it will be investigated, we've got many investigators in Internal Affairs now investigating both IC and OOC reports. Officers are held accountable both IC and OOC and if someone is falsely put in prison, they are compensated.

 

Glad to know this, as I mentioned above as a response to ImSuspensee I still believe the issue lies on the roleplay standard within the agency. I understand that you guys have a ton of handbooks and guidelines, but we also know that these might now always be followed even if someone has read them, if that was the case we would never have rulebreakers. 

I think it is great that IA has a place in the server, but at the same time, I think we should work on improving how the jail/legal system works alongside with how charges are added and the standard used, I would rather avoid this all togther as oppose to letting it continue and then have to take time to file an IA report for something that should be simple to correct.

[Femo]

2 hours ago, Kyle White Raven said:

Dear Eclipse Community, 

 

It is my first time posting on the forums, although I have been playing for the last few weeks. As many of you, I come from an extensive background of RP servers. From GMOD light RP servers to SAMP hardcore RP servers like NGG, PLA, SARP. 

The reason why I mention the above credentials is because I, like many of you, have been playing for a long time on RP servers, specifically hardcore RP servers, so it comes as a surprise that a hardcore RP server like Eclipse who has such a strict entry requirement for players would then be able to foster probably one of the worst police forces and RP system for police that I have ever seen, even compared to light RP servers. 

 

Let me elaborate.

 

There is NO accountability for the actions of the police force. The way the Police force is run right now essentially means that a player more often than not is forced to accept any crazy charges the police conjures up and he/she has no way to fight these in RP. This essentially means that at the moment if you are charged with something that you know 100% OOC you DID NOT do, you have no way in RP of contesting this. Very very few cops will ever engage in /do or /me to figure out the truth of a matter and investigate a situation, most of them just bring you to DOC or mission row, slap you with whatever charges they were told to give you and bam, you get 120 mins in jail for something that you didn't do.

 

Example:

A gang member gets into a chase with the cops in a black dominator, he manages to evade the police and escape. However, 2 minutes later the police find another black dominator (me). They start chasing the black dominator and because I have outstanding tickets I will also attempt to run from the police.

Eventually, the cops manage to perform a PIT maneuver and disable my vehicle, I get out of the car, get down on my knees and am put in restrains. After the usual quick /me and /do to frisk, cuff and place me in the back of a cop car I get brought to either DOC or Misson Row PD. I get placed in a cell and when I ask the officer for my charges he tells me ''Felony Evading x2, Assault with a deadly weapon, attempted murder of an LEO'', to which my reaction is one of disbelief and anger. 

At this point, I am smacked with a 20k fine, put in jail for 120 mins and everyone moves on with their day while I rot in jail.

 

Does anyone see a problem with this example ? How in the world in a HARDCORE RP server, is a player UNABLE to defend themselves, ask for a lawyer or even interact with an officer to dispute the charges. Why is it that cops can essentially PG your charges ?

 

The problem lies in the RP standard of the cop force. Generally speaking, most cops want to get into a chase or gunfight, put you in cuffs and bring you to jail all as quick as possible, there is NO semblance of an attempt to RP with the player and to find out what happened by RP'ing forensics, Gunshot residue tests, Dashcams as evidence, etc... 

 

Having said all this here are the suggestions I purpose (Keep in mind that these aren't mutually exclusive, pick and chose the ones you want to support/implement)

 

 

• Enforce a higher standard of RP by overhauling the police SOPs - Make it clear that officers should have very compelling evidence to charge someone - Make it clear that officers should analyze the suspect, suspect's vehicle and suspect's possessions for evidence linking him to the crimes he is being charged with - Make it clear that officers are to have dashcam recordings as proof in order to arrest someone for a certain charge (if you don't have recording software then it is your DUTY to ask players through /do to acquire the truth as players cannot lie in a /do)
• Add a legal system or some sort of system that allows players to dispute charges. Either by introducing a public defender system, allowing the players to defend themselves, or contract another player roleplaying as a lawyer. 
• Reduce the fines and/or jail time for players who decide to NOT contest the charges and to accept their jail time, thus giving the player a choice of whether they want to RP defending themselves and potentially taking a while or if they just want to get it over with. 

 

 

 

• LAST SUGGESTION: If all of the suggestions above get denied then the last thing I would suggest is to do SOMETHING to fix this. If you don't like the suggestions I made feel free to make any other in the comments or come up with a few solutions between members of staff. I'll repeat it again, it is UNACCEPTABLE to be known as a hardcore RP server and then have such a low RP level in the police force combined with a jail system that offers no options to the players and powergames them into accepting whatever fate is decided for them. 

 

 

 

 

 

P.S. Whenever I mentioned the police force being bad or their RP being bad I don't necessarily mean the players are bad. What I mean is that the way the police force has been told to act through their guidebook combined with the lack of ways people are able to RP their charges has resulted in a shit police system.

Sad but true... what I do is that I just go afk in the jail. Play some sad songs and cry oocly

Edited March 30, 2019 by Femo

[Scott Cleverley]

It's unacceptable for police to punish you, but it's acceptable to go on criminal grind 24/7. *shrugs* Max sentence is 2 hours and that is nothing. I would agree with you, but then lets make jail time 3x longer, since 2 hours is a joke. You see the point here? Stop being on the constant grind, if you wanted to prove your innocence just stop when you're being stopped by the police and have a reasonable conversation. I have had few situations where I had to defend myself, police officers would come, you simply kneel and comply with them until they ask your side of the story, they will collect evidence rp'ly and will punish the one's who tried to pull something on you. Start complying and acknowledge government power in the server instead of complaining about your own fail rp. 

[idid]

This was much better organized than my thread regarding a Justice system. That's the element I would like to see implemented. It allows players to defend themselves while creating checks and balances for law enforcement. It also gives players another choice in their role-play other than just cops or robbers. 

[Cyrus Raven]

2 minutes ago, Scott Cleverley said:

It's unacceptable for police to punish you, but it's acceptable to go on criminal grind 24/7. *shrugs* Max sentence is 2 hours and that is nothing. I would agree with you, but then lets make jail time 3x longer, since 2 hours is a joke. You see the point here? Stop being on the constant grind, if you wanted to prove your innocence just stop when you're being stopped by the police and have a reasonable conversation. I have had few situations where I had to defend myself, police officers would come, you simply kneel and comply with them until they ask your side of the story, they will collect evidence rp'ly and will punish the one's who tried to pull something on you. Start complying and acknowledge government power in the server instead of complaining about your own fail rp. 

5

I don't even know where to start here. Most of your post makes me want to ignore it as it literally provides nothing of substance.

 

''t's unacceptable for police to punish you, but it's acceptable to go on criminal grind 24/7. *shrugs*'' 10/10 strawman argument, where did you get the impression this was the case from any of the posts ?

[KurtLaser]

18 minutes ago, Scott Cleverley said:

It's unacceptable for police to punish you, but it's acceptable to go on criminal grind 24/7. *shrugs* Max sentence is 2 hours and that is nothing. I would agree with you, but then lets make jail time 3x longer, since 2 hours is a joke. You see the point here? Stop being on the constant grind, if you wanted to prove your innocence just stop when you're being stopped by the police and have a reasonable conversation. I have had few situations where I had to defend myself, police officers would come, you simply kneel and comply with them until they ask your side of the story, they will collect evidence rp'ly and will punish the one's who tried to pull something on you. Start complying and acknowledge government power in the server instead of complaining about your own fail rp. 

Nobody is saying its unacceptable for police to punish you.

They are saying its unacceptable for police to punish you for crimes you actually haven't committed.

Theres a very large difference between both statements.

[DaniDota]

2 hours ago, Kyle White Raven said:

+1 

 

Forgot about this. There have been times where I will get my tires shot just because I was ''driving a similar car to an earlier suspect''. So having a Force Continuum in place would enforce a higher standard of RP.

 

 

An example of this is a situation today. I got told to stop because I had a similar car and one of the cops shot me, now, in all honesty, he did claim it was ''mc'' in OOC chat after, but I'm fairly certain the reason he shot was because he thought I was driving away, when in fact I was only complying with the demands made by the other officer and he didn't want to look like an idiot.

 

https://plays.tv/video/5c9f7a211ae5657791/10-10-police-rp-

hahahahahaah kyle my god..

 

they shot your car and pulled u over because i was running from them.. Ill change my car up a bit don't worry hahahah

 

ON-TOPIC:

 

Yes there do need to be changes to the PD, or atleast have the chance to fight the charges.

Otherwise people will flee police constantly and it'll result in a lot less of rp and alot more shootouts

Edited March 30, 2019 by DaniDota

[Cyrus Raven]

10 minutes ago, KurtLaser said:

Nobody is saying its unacceptable for police to punish you.

They are saying its unacceptable for police to punish you for crimes you actually haven't committed.

Theres a very large difference between both statements.

And to be clear, I'm personally not against corruption RP, just make it so that people can hire lawyers of representing themselves and then if cops want to charge you for stuff that isn't true they then have to deal with a judge or fabricate evidence. 

 

I want a solution that seeks to enhance player involvement when it comes to being arrested and charged by being able to defend yourself and elevate the standard of RP between civilians and cops.

Edited March 30, 2019 by Kyle White Raven

[Cyrus Raven]

Just now, DaniDota said:

hahahahahaah kyle my god..

 

they shot your car and pulled u over because i was running from them.. Ill change my car up a bit don't worry hahahah

5

Ikr! I was legit mad when he did that, I'm willing to comply but then this guy shoots me because he thought it was the same person 

[Andor]

As for how the police is a one way street I 100% agree. 

There was a situation at LSC earlier where I with other people were trying to make a conversation with someone. A other person, female A, ( not the person being talked to ) somehow didnt like that and texted a officer ( Not a 911 a personal text ) matthew Rias. He arrived on the scene and told us to leave LSC at which point I called over a mechanic and asked them if I was asked to leave, I was not by the mechanics. A other person in my party asked officer rias to ID himself by badge number which he refused multiple times ( by not responding to it ) and kept issuesing threads of arrest. A second officer showed up after a other text was send by female A ( I assume it was a text to said officer because rias didnt make a backup call ICly ) and instantly took the side of Rias without listing to the story of the mechanic and crowd of people. At this point we started to ICly record the situation for our own protection because we felt that we were treated unfairly. This didnt go well with the officers and they demanded the filming to stop and started arresting one of the people recording. Rias tried to arrest me personally even after a 3rd officer shown up and told them we did nothing wrong and even used a tazer because "I failed to comply a lawfull order by a officer" and "I was not allowed to record the officers". This kept going for a other 10 minutes with even a supervisor apperantly telling the first two officers to let us go and leave the scene.

Now if the 3rd officer didnt show up to reel in Rias and officer number 2, who I believe got called in as a personal favour to remove people unlawfully and made false claims I would have been put in jail and was unable to do anything about it. This then would have let me spend a X amount in jail without any counterplay and I would have had to make a IA report 
and hope it would have been accepted ( which I had not much luck in the past with ). This is a clear example of RP that is a one way street which led the police force to dominate the situation, almost like its PG. Because if I would have defended myself with force, I would have commited a crime and no matter what I woudnt be able to talk my way out of that. 
That is a issue we have in our server and this is just one example of many.

A other is the speed camera's. There is no counter play to it. If I drive a unmarked bike ( no license plates ) that I do not own, with my phone off ( no tracing ) and a mask. How do I still get a ticket if I get caught be a speed camera? That clear PG in my opinion.

[NoobDude]

I was a victim of Police brutality! Hear me out,

So on a fine sunny morning, I step outside my home to find out that my motorcycle had been stolen. I decide to immediately proceed to the Police Station and file a vehicle missing complaint. As soon as I proceeded to the police reception desk, I was greeted by a grey haired cop who immediately showed his displeasure due to my skin color being black. He refused to hear my issue and promptly told me to leave. I refused and told him I wish to talk with another cop and told him I'm well within my rights to wait inside the station. The moment I spoke these words, his eyes immediately bulged and he then proceeded to reach out for his tazer and zap the fuck out of me. 

My pleasant day would have turned even worse if not for a bunch of other cops to roll by the station. Upon seeing them, this grey haired cop immediately released his grip on me and let me off with a stern warning on not to report any of this incident that happened. As I walked out of the station, tears started to trickle down my cheeks and I'm left in disbelief about the gross injustice and brutality I witnessed at the hands of the Police.

From that moment onwards, I lost my faith and trust in the Police Department.

 

Regards,

Honest citizen of Los Santos

[Xoza]

If you have questions or concerns about any charges, or if you suspect you will or are going to be charged with the wrong thing, you have the right to ask for a more detailed investigation and what lead up to you being detained.

Be advised though, this will likely only happen at Mission Row, or inside the prison fences, so get there first, then talk.

[Cyrus Raven]

Just now, Xoza said:

If you have questions or concerns about any charges, or if you suspect you will or are going to be charged with the wrong thing, you have the right to ask for a more detailed investigation and what lead up to you being detained.

Be advised though, this will likely only happen at Mission Row, or inside the prison fences, so get there first, then talk.

I'll take this advice into consideration, but based on my personal experience only once have I been allowed to explain what happened to an officer, the rest of the times (about 6-7) involved me telling the officer multiple times what had happened and asking for a lawyer and/or further investigation and being met with silence or ''there is not much I can do'' and promptly being placed in jail. 

 

If we can make what you described the standard or a common occurrence it would improve roleplay a lot.

[alexalex303]

I find it quite insulting that a person which knows so little about how the police force operates on this server can have such a strong negative opinion of it, and it's protocols, when almost everything stated in his opening post is factually false.

[Cyrus Raven]

9 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

I find it quite insulting that a person which knows so little about how the police force operates on this server can have such a strong negative opinion of it, and it's protocols, when almost everything stated in his opening post is factually false.

When all of my experiences have almost the same outcome and lead to a single issue then what do you expect me to say? These are my experiences based on my time on the server, I am aware that they don't represent the entire police force, but at the same time my suggestion's main point is to add a legal system/ improve the jail system so people can't get charged with no accountability, I don't think that is very contentious unless you want to enlighten me?

 

A few questions:

 

Are players able to dispute their charges at the time of arrest ?

 

Are players able to defend themselves or hire a lawyer ?

 

Is the word of a player equal to that of an officer when it comes to providing evidence ?

[TedAnderson]

1 hour ago, KurtLaser said:

Nobody is saying its unacceptable for police to punish you.

They are saying its unacceptable for police to punish you for crimes you actually haven't committed.

Theres a very large difference between both statements.

And he is saying that if you just stop and recognize government power then this wouldn't be a problem, rather than just running everytime you think you are going to get arrested. The cops are well trained and professional. The system is fine.

[TedAnderson]

3 minutes ago, Kyle White Raven said:

When all of my experiences have almost the same outcome and lead to a single issue then what do you expect me to say? These are my experiences based on my time on the server, I am aware that they don't represent the entire police force, but at the same time my suggestion's main point is to add a legal system/ improve the jail system so people can't get charged with no accountability, I don't think that is very contentious unless you want to enlighten me?

 

A few questions:

 

Are players able to dispute their charges at the time of arrest ?

 

Are players able to defend themselves or hire a lawyer ?

 

Is the word of a player equal to that of an officer when it comes to providing evidence ?

If the police force care to carry out an investigation, they will do so. If it is not needed then you politely ask to speak to the officers supervisor and explain the situation to them.

All of these criminals act like dicks towards the police and expect the cops to listen to them.

They are most likely lying anyway.

[Andor]

16 minutes ago, alexalex303 said:

I find it quite insulting that a person which knows so little about how the police force operates on this server can have such a strong negative opinion of it, and it's protocols, when almost everything stated in his opening post is factually false.

how is it insulting? I mean if he is wrong he is wrong, that doesnt mean he is insults you. He makes a statement on his experience and gets thrown under the bus by some people because of it? Thats in my opinion the wrong attitude. We should as a community talk to eachother instead of being easily offended or throwning insults ( not saying you are either just making a statement ).

If he has RPed on servers like NGG ( which i have been a part off myself ) and felt differnt about the PD there then he does here he is allowed to bring up valid ( from his perspective ) points. Dont dismiss him right away because you feel he is wrong. 

Everyones experiences differnt things while being involved in the same situation. Because it doesnt allign with your believes doesnt make it less valluable

[alexalex303]

5 minutes ago, Kyle White Raven said:

Are players able to dispute their charges at the time of arrest ?

Are players able to defend themselves or hire a lawyer ?

Is the word of a player equal to that of an officer when it comes to providing evidence ?

No, they are not able to dispute their charges at the time of arrest.

Yes, they are able to defend themselves, and even enlist the help of their friends to make their case.

The word of a civilian / convicted felon as in his testimony is NOT equal to a cop's testimony. The word of a player when providing actual evidence (IC recordings, IC pictures, etc) is equal to that of an officer.