new scaling vehicle repairs

[Smoke1]

I feel this kind of kills the racing scene that has recently brought the whole community together as well as the new racetrack that was just built! Scaling vehicle repairs I understand but the price I feel kills it. No one is going to go race for fun at the new track when you're going to have to spend significantly more each repair. Or even the race events ENVY, MNC, Down Town Drift put on. There's three factions that's whole lore is set on racing/drifting, and it punishes them fanatically to follow their lore. The answer I've heard is race/drift cheaper cars, well i understand that but generally people race fast performance vehicles and drift cars are limited in script ability and have high cost. I feel a max price of 2-3k is more realistic. People can go around and just kick your cars and its going cost you so much, OR people consistently push vehicles in the water at truckers HQ and not much is done about it ICLY. It will put a strain on /reports in game people complaining about their vehicles because they won't want to pay the cost because someone else did the damage. IF you play a legal character have a job and use faction vehicles you can /fl  i understand why this suggestion wouldn't be received well as when ur online ur mostly working and money doesn't matter. My SD character and most people's don't care about money. Yes criminals can make lots of money doing banks or drugs or chopping BUT the risk is very high if you don't currently play a character that engages in this i feel it would be hard to fully understand how hard it actually is.  This also directly hurts new players who already are thrust into a highly priced economy I am not against scaling prices or even a slight increase but the new current system in place i feel will hurt the server health of 3 prominent racing/drift factions + new players + allow trolls to just hurt anyone financially and flood /reports and strain the mod+ team

 

 

Please can we all remain civil and mature when responding THIS is just a suggestion and healthy conversation's about for and against help define the community and engaging in healthy conversation is always good!

 

Thanks for taking the time to read and maybe reply 

Edited August 27, 2024 by Smoke1

[Ophelia]

+1

[SuBDivisions23]

-1 From me, allow me to explain

As a fellow racer I understand the issue when it comes to protecting your car and wanting to use it for its intended purpose but I feel we need to look at the RP as a whole here. Many people don't treat their cars as they would their real cars, IE as a precious item and not merely a tool. Racers know the stakes of using their expensive ride to have fun and should strive to improve their racing to minimizing Damage if possible. Also gives criminals a reason to not abuse and misuse their vehicles 

[Larry Wrzosek]

21 minutes ago, SuBDivisions23 said:

-1 From me, allow me to explain

As a fellow racer I understand the issue when it comes to protecting your car and wanting to use it for its intended purpose but I feel we need to look at the RP as a whole here. Many people don't treat their cars as they would their real cars, IE as a precious item and not merely a tool. Racers know the stakes of using their expensive ride to have fun and should strive to improve their racing to minimizing Damage if possible. Also gives criminals a reason to not abuse and misuse their vehicles 

In real life there is no desync or bubble to train people to not get lag slammed etc...these repair prices make the once low budget experience an expensive subscription

[inorigj]

i'm sorry but BIG -1

As someone who's been in the racing scene on here since mid to early 2018.

seeing how people race cars now days is just ridicules. Racing a Paragon R [Bentley Continental GT] or Elegy retro custom [Nissan Skyline GT-R (R33)] is all find and good.

But they are expensive vehicles. If you spin out and take huge amount of damage. then yes. it should hurt your wallet.

the Paragon R is an expensive vehicle. and the elegy is a rear vehicle with hard to come by parts.

 

Treat your vehicles more realistic, and not bumper cars. I know there is a huge problem with Bubbles and such. but that's a risk you're taking by trying to race in a risky manner.

2 minutes ago, Larry Wrzosek said:

In real life there is no desync or bubble

We all know there are desync issues with races. we should race accordingly. If you see a opening. but you know its to risky because you will most likely bubble someone. DON'T take it. I'm sorry

[SuBDivisions23]

2 minutes ago, inorigj said:

Treat your vehicles more realistic, and not bumper cars. I know there is a huge problem with Bubbles and such. but that's a risk you're taking by trying to race in a risky manner

To add onto this, many criminals also use really expensive vehicles for really risky buisness with little to no drawbacks. I mean it's all good to use BF400s and brawlers and such, but when you see them taking million dollar jugulars off road and hundred of thousands of dollars worth if cars and using them in such a reckless manner, it really ruins immersion (especially for a car guy like me)

 

7 minutes ago, Larry Wrzosek said:

In real life there is no desync or bubble to train people to not get lag slammed etc

The lag bubble is an issue I will agree, but it can be avoided pretty easily by knowing spacing. I will say though lag smashes are very unfortunate.

[power]

39 minutes ago, SuBDivisions23 said:

As a fellow racer I understand the issue when it comes to protecting your car and wanting to use it for its intended purpose but I feel we need to look at the RP as a whole here. 

Both ourselves and Midnight our built off of the lore of high end street racing so if anything our RP is being negatively affected by this.

 

40 minutes ago, SuBDivisions23 said:

Many people don't treat their cars as they would their real cars, IE as a precious item and not merely a tool. Racers know the stakes of using their expensive ride to have fun and should strive to improve their racing to minimizing Damage if possible. 

Cars can be precious items and tools, we all run vehicles with intended purposes and also value not losing them due to the inability to utilise them for as long as LEO decides to punish us. Desync exists but when you race with people who do it as their main source of RP you take far less damage.

 

42 minutes ago, SuBDivisions23 said:

Also gives criminals a reason to not abuse and misuse their vehicles 

For people abusing and misusing vehicles in a way that SHOULD be countered by scripting changes, you should report them here https://forum.eclipse-rp.net/forum/4-player-reports

 

[Jordan]

+1 as cool as a scaling system sounds, and if the community were in a better state I'd think it was a great idea but the fact of the matter is there are just too many toxic people that run around on the server causing havoc for little to no reason than to just give people a hard time. Because of this WAYYY too many people can be screwed over. Not to mention how easy it is to mess your car up.

[SuBDivisions23]

13 minutes ago, power said:

Both ourselves and Midnight our built off of the lore of high end street racing so if anything our RP is being negatively affected by this.

While it is sad to hear this I still believe a higher value vehicle should naturally have a higher cost operating cost and maintenance cost. It's extremely strange these highly tuned souped up sports cars cost the same to repair as some fresh kid off the street with a stock warrener.

 

Maybe together we can find a better solution in the future, whether that be tweaking the costs or introducing other factors

[N00BST3R]

I would like to add to this as it's a really important part of RP in the game.

All of the above have valid points. I wanna focus a bit on the criminal part where criminals knowingly use expensive vehicles in their activities. Please let's not forget the legal governmental factions that have infinite amount of vehicles to spawn without considering any type of financial damages  to the PD/SD/DOC property, that's 1 reason why criminals are actually better drivers than *most* governmental employees. Simply they fuck up their car by crashing or doing an OOPSIE and stall their vehicle, then they simply go de-spawn the car and grab another while the others will have to suffer the cost of repairs and etc...

You may tell me "But in real life, the government covers the expenses of the police vehicle.". True, but in real life, the police doesn't simply crash, change the car and rejoin the chase or whatever the situation is. Police have unlimited resources and no one talks about it (as I noticed, I may be wrong about people not talking about this.).

For me that's one big reason why vehicle costs shouldn't be high.

Okay, expensive cars should be more expensive, then high-end vehicles  for the police should be way more strict because to state again that criminals overall are much better drivers than police because they have vehicle expenses (not better than all police, but most of the police drivers have some skill issue because its okay if they crash their vehicles), and  "its okay to crash their vehicles and just spawn another one" is definitely  not similar to real life.

[inorigj]

3 minutes ago, N00BST3R said:

legal governmental factions that have infinite amount of vehicles to spawn without considering any type of financial damages  to the PD/SD/DOC property

That is true, but @Paulius was once going to make it so that PD/SD's vehicle would remain damaged, even after you parked and un-parked it. Forcing PD to repair the vehicle themselves. and not just spawn a new one.

This idea was scrapped or placed on hold, not sure. because RageMP didn't sync vehicle damage. but now that the server DOES sync the vehicle damage. I think its about time that LSPD, LSSD and GOV get that vehicle change that was intended years back.

 

Nothing prevents an officer from using a mechanic shop to repair their duty vehicle.

 

I could agree that the price for repair for civilians should be changed back to how it was. until they make this change. making it fair for both LEO, Civilians and criminals alike.

 

LSPD,LSSD are held to a higher RP standard. but that does not mean that all officer are any better at keeping realism.

Case and point an officer I just saw at impound. ramming a niobe because the officer tried to leave the wrong way. instead of arresting the guy or giving a ticket. he just forcefully rams the vehicle out of the way. yes, he has a ram bar. but that still gives structural damage to the cruiser frame. and is a horribly unrealistic way of acting for a LEO.

[N00BST3R]

4 minutes ago, inorigj said:

I could agree that the price for repair for civilians should be changed back to how it was. until they make this change. making it fair for both LEO, Civilians and criminals alike.

 

Yes, exactly, if legal factions get the same treatment in this case. Then the increase in pricing would be fair and *realistic*.

[Smoke1]

"Case and point an officer I just saw at impound. ramming a niobe because the officer tried to leave the wrong way. instead of arresting the guy or giving a ticket. he just forcefully rams the vehicle out of the way. yes, he has a ram bar. but that still gives structural damage to the cruiser frame. and is a horribly unrealistic way of acting for a LEO." And now that owner is on the hook. ALso when ur car is taken to impound by police if they crash your car or cause any damages because they don't care or accidents happen YOUR on the hook for the repairs 

[Phantas]

BMX GANG RISE UP

 

 

[Loca_Mocha]

6 minutes ago, Phantas said:

BMX GANG RISE UP

for real!

[lLizzyl]

+1

From even a legal character stand point, my vehicle is slightly damaged when I drive into my own property gates to park my vehicle. I was not misusing the vehicle or being destructive. Simply driving a vehicle through gate doors, without anyone holding the doors open, damages the vehicle each time. The only way I would not damage my vehicle while at the property, alone, would be to leave it on the side of the road, leaving it vulnerable to being stolen or robbed of belongings.

I understand making repairs more costly when the vehicle's red engine light is on, but I believe it should not apply to when the yellow engine light is on. There's no way to tell if the yellow engine light will come on, so as soon as it is yellow, you have to pay more. If the price was the same base price while the yellow light is on, then players will know to go to the mechanic sooner rather than later, paying more for the base price if they choose to ignore it. If we are looking for more realistic RP, I personally think this makes more sense. If you choose to ignore your check engine light irl, you have to face the consequences later down the line when the vehicle eventually stops working.

Not even sure if this makes sense, but I wanted to give my opinions on this update.

[Smoke1]

5 minutes ago, lLizzyl said:

+1

From even a legal character stand point, my vehicle is slightly damaged when I drive into my own property gates to park my vehicle. I was not misusing the vehicle or being destructive. Simply driving a vehicle through gate doors, without anyone holding the doors open, damages the vehicle each time. The only way I would not damage my vehicle while at the property, alone, would be to leave it on the side of the road, leaving it vulnerable to being stolen or robbed of belongings.

I understand making repairs more costly when the vehicle's red engine light is on, but I believe it should not apply to when the yellow engine light is on. There's no way to tell if the yellow engine light will come on, so as soon as it is yellow, you have to pay more. If the price was the same base price while the yellow light is on, then players will know to go to the mechanic sooner rather than later, paying more for the base price if they choose to ignore it. If we are looking for more realistic RP, I personally think this makes more sense. If you choose to ignore your check engine light irl, you have to face the consequences later down the line when the vehicle eventually stops working.

Not even sure if this makes sense, but I wanted to give my opinions on this update.

thanks for the contribution it does make sense 

[inorigj]

8 minutes ago, lLizzyl said:

my vehicle is slightly damaged when I drive into my own property gates to park my vehicle. I was not misusing the vehicle or being destructive. Simply driving a vehicle through gate doors, without anyone holding the doors open, damages the vehicle each time.

This is the best and most legitimate reason given so far. and I fully agree. my gates damages my vehicles too. unless I move past them like I'm doing a surgery

[AnnoyingOne]

You sure your vehicle gets damaged driving through gates? When we still used to have hp as numbers, going through a gate didn't damage the "engine", only the visuals ( at least for me, idk how you drive through ). The cost of repair is in the engine repair.

[inorigj]

3 minutes ago, isBrainDed said:

You sure your vehicle gets damaged driving through gates? When we still used to have hp as numbers, going through a gate didn't damage the "engine", only the visuals ( at least for me, idk how you drive through ). The cost of repair is in the engine repair.

Depends on the gates and how tight the squeeze is. like, I got a gate at a 4G by the gold course. its not a furniture gate. so can't be moved. You need to take a left turn the moment you pass the gate, making you push in to the gate. that damages it

[NinerTwoGolf]

I will say as a street racer, I don't mind the changes to the damage system. I drive my Elegy Retro pretty hard, focusing on posting clean and consistent lap times for my group. It was a recent discussion in our group over a lap time posted at Observatory. It was a very clean run, but the key to is was a very lucky bounce off a tree toward the end during the serpentine part. If you've run it, I'm sure you all know what I'm talking about. It was a discussion in the group how good of a skid/bounce of the tree was, and how much that shaved off the run. With the new damage changes, that is a far more riskier move to try to consistently pull. Desync and lag smashes are always unfortunate, and racers know the rules when it comes to that stuff, but it is good to see your car be treated as your baby, an extension of yourself and not just something you can smash up. Anytime I scrape the guardrail or love tap a barrier I wince because my Elegy is my baby. I try to take care of her.

I think a great change to compliment this would have Gov factions, (SD, PD, EMS, etc.) Have to pay to maintain their resources. Honestly that is something that always struck me as odd is that while LSC has a treasury, other gov sponsored factions have unlimited resources. I think an interesting and more realistic change would be if the Gov had to allocate budgets to the different branches under its control. It's income can come from the license fees, taxes, fines, medical bills, etc. From there, it allocates its portions as it see fits. Then those factions use their budgets for payroll, procuring equipment, repairing and refueling vehicles, and whatever else would be a tangible resource that has a fiscal impact.

I think it would allow for more interesting interactions and RP opportunities, especially when the budget starts to get scarce. Do they stop hiring? Do they let go of underperformers and those with complaints because they can't afford to keep such sloppy people on the payroll? Do some officers get banned from driving because they keep crashing cruisers? Does someone lose access to their D10 or Hellfire privileges because they totaled the last one they had? Do police actually choose to terminate pursuits because a simple speeder in a super car will not be worth the resources to chase them down? Or does Gov start move money around, taking resources from other branches or the coffers in order to help a branch whose budget is spiraling out of control. Maybe officers who keep colliding with civilian vehicles now have to take their information down so they can be compensated for the damage they caused. (An example recently is an officer cut a corner and hit me head on, even though I was stopped in my lane. He drove off, and if I didn't know the officer, I would be SOL.)

Even as a mechanic, I think about how a fleet maintenance system could be. How many of our mechanics would be banned because they keep damaging not only company vehicles, but others when driving the large tow trucks? How many mechanics could be cut because they don't work enough to offset their salaries?
 

I'm still fairly new to the server, admittedly. Interacted with enough different groups where I feel I can spit ball these ideas and see what everyone else says.

Edited August 28, 2024 by NinerTwoGolf

[inorigj]

31 minutes ago, NinerTwoGolf said:

other gov sponsored factions have unlimited resources

This is not true. I know it feels like it tho.
When DOC got its new "weapon editor" for employees. they made so many mods and weapon builds they ran out of funding. and hand to cut back hard on what weapons they could keep.

[NinerTwoGolf]

5 minutes ago, inorigj said:

When DOC got its new "weapon editor" for employees. they made so many mods and weapon builds they ran out of funding. and hand to cut back hard on what weapons they could keep.

Fair enough, I don't know the ins and outs of every faction. Does this system apply to your vehicles as well for repairs and fuel?

[Quietthecutie]

im very on the fence with this one but after considering, i want to -1 it. simply because it reinforces to people that driving their cars like maniacs is. . .expensive.

If you wanna race, or offroad, or do anything that might put your car in danger, fine. but itll cost ya. 

This would make people drive in races and offroads with a little more care and a little less demolition derby mindset. alot of times when youre in races people just fucking full send it in a supercar and damn the consequences because they know the cost of a repair isnt that much.

With the new ruleset they have to weigh up the cost of repair vs a better chance of winning the race. think formula one. in those races the drivers have to constantly factor in how expensive it would be if they were to crash their cars vs going for a risky overtake. you have to play smarter and race better, instead of just using your car as a battering ram.

Same with offroading, rolling your car will now cost significantly more so people will be sending it off cliffs alot less.

In short, whilst its an unpopular change (because everything that make the game harder to play usually is)  the new system rewards smarter driving, which is why i support it.

 

 

[lupicek]

I do agree with the scaling of price repair and it makes more sense overall than paying 1 k dollars for any car.

The main issue for me is how are we going to solve if someone smacks my car... even by mistake or on purpose...

For example... You are driving on a main road towards City Parking and someone rams you from the left in 200 km/h making your car flip 10 times and totals it... it is his mistake even tho he did not done it on purpose... how are you going to get the money from him ?
1) If you are legal person, you can prolly call cops and do some more RP with them ... not sure if its a thing where they can force a player to pay for your repair...

2) If you are crim... what exactly can you do ? You cannot force someone to withdraw money from bank... all I can do is shoot him if he acts like a hostile but who is going to pay for my car ?

...This is my main question ... how can we solve this problem ? 
I drive Paragon S that is in price range over 2 mil from dealer ship and I guess that repair prices are going to be insane on it.