Gang supressions & NLR

[dRose22]

36 minutes ago, Bala said:

Getting pulled over by a cop is roleplay. Getting searched is roleplay. It might not be the roleplay that you want to be doing but if you want to start bombing cops in empty timezones then this is what happens.
I keep seeing Division Six talking about all this OOC hate, I hate it to break it to you but it's not that deep. It could just as easily be OTF or Rooks or whoever else that's pulled.

Because you can't get your way, the game is all of a sudden unplayable. 

                                                                                           

[Blazejackson]

Crims complain the game becomes "unplayable" when gang suppression comes into play. Yes it does from my old official faction I ran, we had to all go on a 2 week LOA when we were gang suppressed and play other games because we couldn't leave our apartment without getting pulled over, in colors or not. We would go to jail for shitty reasons with stacked charges and then give up for the day, we literally couldn't do any activities on the server as we were stuck in jail constantly so it was pointless for us to play. This ain't real life this is a game where we want to keep players interested and playing the server, because I remember shortly after Shenzhen disbanded, SD were complaining on how they didn't have a single traffic stop or incident for 4 hours each night for 3 days running. If we don't have crims doing crim stuff on the server then PD and SD are effected not only leading crims to give up on the server and take LOA's but also PD and SD to get bored and play less on the server.

I can see this thread getting toxic from both sides, no point arguing between ourselves and instead work towards a decision both sides can agree upon, to keep the player base active on eclipse.

Gang suppression is a part of roleplay for cops and is an important part in the cycle of gangs, but the issue is also down to the server development and the way certain cops play the game. Stacking charges is the first issue, why do cops feel the need to stack every charge they possibly can on a person to get them in a prison cell for hours being afk. The mentality of cops need to change when issuing charges, because you are pushing roleplay away from your own faction by putting multiple crims away for hours on end every day, its not fun! DOC is not somewhere a player looks forward too on a OOC level, we cannot expect a DOC update any time soon since other updates are already in the works, but if the mentality of cops on the server can adjust their OOC attitude towards crims the playing environment will be better, their will be more crims on the street, robbing banks, going to labs, chopping cars, evading, shootouts, etc..etc... by putting crims in jail for shorter periods it opens the door for cops to have more incidents to attend and to happen. Both sides need gangs to last on this server. 

small updates that would help with gang suppression being less of an OOC loss for the player:
-Half the DOC time but 35% higher fees (until the DOC update happens where DOC is no longer a AFK simulator)
-Stacking charges to be discussed upon staff and work a limit/rule to it, (until the judicial branch can be effective and work swiftly and be more of a use to a crim)
-Heavy weapon imports to be cut in prices (so it's not a massive loss for crims when they do loose them, in simple ways as in getting pulled over and searched)

I can only speak from my experience as a crim player as I have never played law enforcement, so this is my opinion as a crim player ECRP.

[jasonX]

.

Edited February 10, 2023 by jasonX

[jasonX]

17 minutes ago, Blazejackson said:

Crims complain the game becomes "unplayable" when gang suppression comes into play. Yes it does from my old official faction I ran, we had to all go on a 2 week LOA when we were gang suppressed and play other games because we couldn't leave our apartment without getting pulled over, in colors or not. We would go to jail for shitty reasons with stacked charges and then give up for the day, we literally couldn't do any activities on the server as we were stuck in jail constantly so it was pointless for us to play. This ain't real life this is a game where we want to keep players interested and playing the server, because I remember shortly after Shenzhen disbanded, SD were complaining on how they didn't have a single traffic stop or incident for 4 hours each night for 3 days running. If we don't have crims doing crim stuff on the server then PD and SD are effected not only leading crims to give up on the server and take LOA's but also PD and SD to get bored and play less on the server.

I can see this thread getting toxic from both sides, no point arguing between ourselves and instead work towards a decision both sides can agree upon, to keep the player base active on eclipse.

Gang suppression is a part of roleplay for cops and is an important part in the cycle of gangs, but the issue is also down to the server development and the way certain cops play the game. Stacking charges is the first issue, why do cops feel the need to stack every charge they possibly can on a person to get them in a prison cell for hours being afk. The mentality of cops need to change when issuing charges, because you are pushing roleplay away from your own faction by putting multiple crims away for hours on end every day, its not fun! DOC is not somewhere a player looks forward too on a OOC level, we cannot expect a DOC update any time soon since other updates are already in the works, but if the mentality of cops on the server can adjust their OOC attitude towards crims the playing environment will be better, their will be more crims on the street, robbing banks, going to labs, chopping cars, evading, shootouts, etc..etc... by putting crims in jail for shorter periods it opens the door for cops to have more incidents to attend and to happen. Both sides need gangs to last on this server. 

small updates that would help with gang suppression being less of an OOC loss for the player:
-Half the DOC time but 35% higher fees (until the DOC update happens where DOC is no longer a AFK simulator)
-Stacking charges to be discussed upon staff and work a limit/rule to it, (until the judicial branch can be effective and work swiftly and be more of a use to a crim)
-Heavy weapon imports to be cut in prices (so it's not a massive loss for crims when they do loose them, in simple ways as in getting pulled over and searched)

I can only speak from my experience as a crim player as I have never played law enforcement, so this is my opinion as a crim player ECRP.

this!

[Eygon]

2 hours ago, Bala said:

Getting pulled over by a cop is roleplay. Getting searched is roleplay. It might not be the roleplay that you want to be doing but if you want to start bombing cops in empty timezones then this is what happens.
I keep seeing Division Six talking about all this OOC hate, I hate it to break it to you but it's not that deep. It could just as easily be OTF or Rooks or whoever else that's pulled.

Because you can't get your way, the game is all of a sudden unplayable. 

Devote the same energy to your faction members not driving around in cars with no doors on or not making blatant metagame references to GBK around Jason/Grace to get a reaction or talking about hitboxes in-character as you do some of these threads and you might actually get some where.

I really try to help crims get their bag in the server but honestly, groups like you make it so difficult to have any kind of sympathy whatsoever.

Crim rp with pd automatically got shit when massive waves of crims created alts and joined pd after losing on their crim, disbanding their factions etc. As a 100% criminal who only played one character that was crim for 5 years now, i can easily tell that if i was to join pd or sd someday I couldn’t ignore my crim character friendships and rivals and act fairly. I know multiple individuals who straight up said that they are bias towards their crim ic enemies and allies. Is funny how we have ppl in 2023 that believe crims in pd alts are fair. How can you avoid this? Well remove all the crims from pd but that’s not an option since they make up a very very BIG proportion of PD. Other option? Well yes, make crims have another way to avoid gang surpression without just waiting it out and make crim economy way less of an ass pain, bring back laptop prices for heavies, lower impound fee and stop suspending driver licenses if the suspect isn’t even driving… Long story short for lazy ppl who can’t be bothered reading what i said : big agree on OOC hate and bias of PD.

[ltsChubby]

half plus +1 and half -1

i dont think its right for cops to just camp inside a gangs HQ with one Unit as its RPly a hostile area and it would be concidered FRP and NRP if crims did it inside anther gangs HQ but PD are allowed to do it dosnt seem right to me at all

 

[ltsChubby]

4 hours ago, Kjaer said:

-1,

I've been the subject of gang suppression in different groups and we always dealt with it properly and it goes away. Those who "disband because of it" make me think they just couldn't avoid bringing heat on their colors/group.

"Gang kills some PD > PD suppresses gang > Gang fights back" .....

If your goal is to lose the attention of PD, maybe.... Dont "fight back" and kill cops in retaliation thus giving them more reason to suppress you?

you get suppressed even if you dont shoot cops, been happening to me for the past week everyday, ive never shot a cop in my whole 2 years playing and my gang has never shot a cop

[Oli]

9 hours ago, TheCactus said:

NLR doesn't apply when you get imprisoned, obviously. That's why you remember everything ICly.

Proves again that you and Grace didnt read my post fully.

 

9 hours ago, TheCactus said:

If you go to prison in real life and then come out you are still considered a member/criminal associate both by the family/gang and the law enforcement agency that is investigating your organization (being it a gang unit or the FBI). Even if you do some felon reformation program they will still keep an eye on you, depending on the crimes committed and the bond with the group.

@Shining0103 ain't wrong to be quote on quote confused. This really is a stupid topic. Isn't this like basic knowledge mixed with some holy ECRP rules?

Its a GAME, I'm not gonna go to rehab after getting released from jail.

I dont appreciate you calling my topic stupid, you gave your 2 cents. Please edit

[ltsChubby]

9 hours ago, TheCactus said:

If you die, you don't get charged, your name isn't mentioned anywhere in relation to that situation and the only ties you have with said situation may be your affiliation. NLR doesn't apply when you get imprisoned, obviously. That's why you remember everything ICly.

Cops are on your ass cause you're still a gang member I guess? If you are not then they wouldn't be? Duh.

If you go to prison in real life and then come out you are still considered a member/criminal associate both by the family/gang and the law enforcement agency that is investigating your organization (being it a gang unit or the FBI). Even if you do some felon reformation program they will still keep an eye on you, depending on the crimes committed and the bond with the group.

@Shining0103 ain't wrong to be quote on quote confused. This really is a stupid topic. Isn't this like basic knowledge mixed with some holy ECRP rules?

in saying that, that isnt true if i got no gloves on and leave finger prints on a gun but i die, i still get a warrent for my arrest and still go to jail even if i was NLR from the situation i lost the gun at...

 

 

[Oli]

6 hours ago, Bala said:

Here's a thought, maybe if you weren't lighting cops up in time-zones you know they can't do anything about it, you wouldn't be suppressed so hard?
You lose any and all moral high ground you second you pull that shit and then deserve the summary judgement that gets dished out.

Crims dont go out their way to shoot cops, gimme 1 reason why we would. If the 2-3 cops who come first dont get out their vehicle and go 2v10, we wouldnt have a reason to kill them. You cant expect us to surrender to 2 cops when we have more than 10 just because they're cops, that's not how it works.

6 hours ago, Bala said:

In terms of individual incidents, if there is no one alive to make a report on an incident, it shouldn't be in a case file and I'm pretty sure that there are never entries in that circumstance but in terms of wiping a casefile or anything like that, it's not practical and makes no sense to ignore a faction after they've killed a bunch of cops.

If that's the case for crims then the beef will never be NLRed cuz there will always be that 1 guy who survives yet FM tells us its NLRed because MOST people died. I see no reason why it should apply to crims but not for the 'higher RP standard" LEO factions.

6 hours ago, Bala said:

You can look at it from the realism route, loads of cops getting murdered would be national news. You can look at it from a game route, it takes a long time to collect the information for these files, wiping them after one encounter wouldn't fly.

So what should OG crims do? People who've been in the server for multiple years, who surely had lots and lots of incidents with killing PD and multiple felonies?
Get pulled over and searched every 2mins cuz multiple cops wrote his casefile bit by bit over the course of 3 years? It doesnt make sense! Its a GAME.

As much as you can argue about realism, I honestly couldnt care less if it achieves your realism standard or not. Multiple gangs have disbanded because of gang suppression and that's in itself is an L, whether you admit to it or deny it just to have more people to fuck over.

7 hours ago, Bala said:

I'm not a fan of the hypocrisy that when cops in early timezones are getting purged, the server is fun but when it comes time for you to assume the position, it's unfair and not fun anymore. I'm sure crims don't give a shit if cops don't want to play when they're getting rolled, yet when it's their turn, they expect the server to change for them.

I ask you to ask for their POVs and make a FAIR judgement. As I've mentioned in this post, you cant expect 10 cops to surrender to 2 cops. If these 2 cops stay in their car, call for back up and wait for the right chance to engage and/or catch some lacking then such incidents would happen.

3 hours ago, Bala said:

Getting pulled over by a cop is roleplay. Getting searched is roleplay. It might not be the roleplay that you want to be doing but if you want to start bombing cops in empty timezones then this is what happens.

It is roleplay, you're right, no one is denying that. But is it okay for it to be the ONLY roleplay one will have for multiple days straight? Wont repeat what I've said about the empty timezone cops, you can read what I've said 2 times above.

3 hours ago, Bala said:

Devote the same energy to your faction members not driving around in cars with no doors on or not making blatant metagame references to GBK around Jason/Grace to get a reaction or talking about hitboxes in-character as you do some of these threads and you might actually get some where.

Please report any "blatant metagame references to GBK around Jason/Grace", dont bring it up here, this is not the play report section.

[Oli]

Dont like how this went off-topic much, if an admin can clean all the irrelevant posts it would be nice.

[Apex]

A lot of useful stuff has been said here. But we all know this ain't changing, mainly because the people that can change it aren't interested. And I'm saying this as a retired crim, people don't shoot you for following protocol. I've been directly involved in pulling a lot of people out of their cars and they usually take it with a grin even if they had an AK in the car. That's because I'm not fuelling it on purpose rather I'm acting like someone that's playing a game and is being nice to everyone. 

Now I've never seen Bala more one sided before, it's mainly because the thread doesn't make that much sense, it does bring a good point to light but GND protocols are very reasonable and perfectly fine, the issue is with the people abusing them for their own joy (But no one is actually looking at that).

For the OOC toxicity part of things, let's just look at it from the crims perspective for once. I've had this X person and we were fighting for as long as I can remember, and as all crim wars go, there was a lot of reporting and ooc toxicity involved. Suddenly and overnight this person is back in uniform and now suppressing my gang that wasn't even made when he was round. Like yeah no shit I'm gonna think he's targeting me (Hypothetically)

But yeah man let's just ignore that that's happening and tell you you're mad because things didn't go your way and it's just IC! 

[Kjaer]

1 hour ago, Oli said:

Its a GAME

You might as well say "I can do it in GTA online, why not here?"

[Alannn]

3 hours ago, Eygon said:

Crim rp with pd automatically got shit when massive waves of crims created alts and joined pd after losing on their crim, disbanding their factions etc. As a 100% criminal who only played one character that was crim for 5 years now, i can easily tell that if i was to join pd or sd someday I couldn’t ignore my crim character friendships and rivals and act fairly. I know multiple individuals who straight up said that they are bias towards their crim ic enemies and allies. Is funny how we have ppl in 2023 that believe crims in pd alts are fair. How can you avoid this? Well remove all the crims from pd but that’s not an option since they make up a very very BIG proportion of PD. Other option? Well yes, make crims have another way to avoid gang surpression without just waiting it out and make crim economy way less of an ass pain, bring back laptop prices for heavies, lower impound fee and stop suspending driver licenses if the suspect isn’t even driving… Long story short for lazy ppl who can’t be bothered reading what i said : big agree on OOC hate and bias of PD.

i agree!

[Arnis]

-1 Have been in several organizations been under several Gang suppressions if you don't have the brain power to do what's necessary and deal with it its an IC consequence all do looks like D6 is getting torn apart i guess the tables turned . I'm completely unbias as i don't have a PD/SD account and im only crim so if you hate the facts that is a allround issue.

[MrSilky]

Two questions just so we can steer this back on topic:

What actions did you do that resulted in the harsh suppression?

Are you aware of the IC process, review and approval of Suppressions by an impartial board?

 

I’ve also seen the statement “it’s just a game” thrown around a lot in this thread, but then the original post speaks of how going to prison for an hour is RPly 60 months so doesn’t make RP sense to keep a file? What are we striving for here? Gameplay sense or realism?

[isBrainDed]

4 hours ago, ltsChubby said:

in saying that, that isnt true if i got no gloves on and leave finger prints on a gun but i die, i still get a warrent for my arrest and still go to jail even if i was NLR from the situation i lost the gun at...

 

 

You should make an IG report about that and your charges will get removed. If we do fingerprints on an item like that we cant know if someone died in same situation, so we go with what we are given.

[sNo0BbZz]

I think the whole gist of this discussion is :

Cops (more specifically GFU) have the power to make crim RPers time on the server objectively not fun, some cops use this power in a way where its obvious they dont give a flying fuck about the crims OOC struggle, some dont. 

I think you could go 2 ways here, either you need to change the play to win mentality that some LEO roleplayers have, or if they refuse to change their mentality, restrict their power to add just some balance and give crims that keep them entertained and the server active a breathing chance. Both tbh can work. 

[Kayta]

I took a break from the server for about a year and when I returned my roleplay experience as a criminal consisted of being stopped while driving at 80 km/h getting cuffed, searched, getting reckless for not stopping at a red light or something petty and having my license suspended for 24 hours Given this it makes sense that there are no longer any gangs on the server and the ones that do exist spend their time fishing or simply driving around even when we attempt to have regular meetings or humorous events we get raided for no reason and good luck getting an explanation why
The current state of the server does not allow you to RP as a criminal All I see those days are people logging in to have fun but it ends up getting them eliminated at the DOC for 5 hours or harassed by cops All I see now is that the server is not fair to play at all. I'm not against cops being op but I am against the fact that some cops abusing that power to piss off and harass some other players cause of some ooc hate or something we all know many people take roleplay very seriously and that the saddest part 
Maybe I went off-topic but that was my point of view.

3 hours ago, sNo0BbZz said:

I think you could go 2 ways here, either you need to change the play to win mentality that some LEO roleplayers have, or if they refuse to change their mentality, restrict their power to add just some balance and give crims that keep them entertained and the server active a breathing chance. Both tbh can work. 

i agree with that +1

Edited February 10, 2023 by Kayta

[Borrelli]

So, let me get this straight, cops having a "win" mentality is the root of all evils?

Does this mentality not also exist among gang members? If not, why do we have 10+ gang members robbing a convenience store with heavy weapons, surely if there was no caring about "winning" then a couple of them could just go with a pistol each and accept whatever RP happens?

Ultimately PD's current actions are a response to what gangs, such as Division Six, have been doing - if you want it to stop you need to become smart and stop being so blatant in your actions, escalation is not something you will win.

It's a shame that some of your members are feeling like they do not want to play, however the same can be said for PD members with regards to members of PD following interactions with Division Six members, the numerous large-scale shootouts over a felony evading charge which turn into 5+ murder of a government employee have really got tiring. We've had multiple members put in LOAs due to these situations, so if you want us to feel sorry for them it's not going to happen, we've been feeling the same way for the past month or so over this stuff.

 

 

In relation to the simple topic of suppression checks,  these are approved by people outside of PD and require more than just our word that something happened, no one is getting pulled over while going at 80km/h for a suppression check without there first being evidence that they are affiliated with a gang being suppressed - if you're trying to claim that you are, you're either lying or you've forgotten some interaction you've had which has resulted in you being labelled as affiliated with a suppressed gang. That said you're more than welcome to pursue IC avenues if you feel that PD's actions could be considered IC harassment.

[pasha9]

3 hours ago, MrSilky said:

What actions did you do that resulted in the harsh suppression?

Hey man! Immortals never shot cops till we made GBK disband, then Steels started playing on their legals, they used to pull us over and search us (for no reason) EVERY 2mins for what? Just because they couldnt win on their alt, just because they hate us OOCly. What was the reasoning for that suppression then? Maybe you ask them some questions too

[Borrelli]

2 minutes ago, pasha9 said:

Hey man! Immortals never shot cops till we made GBK disband, then Steels started playing on their legals, they used to pull us over and search us (for no reason) EVERY 2mins for what? Just because they couldnt win on their alt, just because they hate us OOCly. What was the reasoning for that suppression then? Maybe you ask them some questions too

Looking at the suppression approved by Judicial it was multiple counts of murder, felony evading, armed robbery, use of heavy weaponry, drive-by, etc, etc. Or did your gang not do any of those things? 

[Oli]

3 hours ago, MrSilky said:

Two questions just so we can steer this back on topic:

What actions did you do that resulted in the harsh suppression?

Are you aware of the IC process, review and approval of Suppressions by an impartial board?

Personally I have not been involved in any incidents that lead to shooting cops that past 2 weeks. Now as a gang, as I've mentioned to Bala before, we fought back whenever a few number of cops tried fighting 10 of us and they died for it, that's on them for taking a 2v10 just cuz they have AP and free guns (carbines or w/e).

And no, I'm not aware of what you've asked.
 

3 hours ago, MrSilky said:

I’ve also seen the statement “it’s just a game” thrown around a lot in this thread, but then the original post speaks of how going to prison for an hour is RPly 60 months so doesn’t make RP sense to keep a file? What are we striving for here? Gameplay sense or realism?

Call it whatever you want, I'm with what keeps the game fun to play. Both sides of the law need the other for RP opps and finding ways to fuck the other side over will just make less and less people play, evident by how the server pop decreased over time whenever a crim nerf happened.

[Kayta]

5 minutes ago, Borrelli said:

So, let me get this straight, cops having a "win" mentality is the root of all evils?

Does this mentality not also exist among gang members? If not, why do we have 10+ gang members robbing a convenience store with heavy weapons, surely if there was no caring about "winning" then a couple of them could just go with a pistol each and accept whatever RP happens?

Ultimately PD's current actions are a response to what gangs, such as Division Six, have been doing - if you want it to stop you need to become smart and stop being so blatant in your actions, escalation is not something you will win.

It's a shame that some of your members are feeling like they do not want to play, however the same can be said for PD members with regards to members of PD following interactions with Division Six members, the numerous large-scale shootouts over a felony evading charge which turn into 5+ murder of a government employee have really got tiring. We've had multiple members put in LOAs due to these situations, so if you want us to feel sorry for them it's not going to happen, we've been feeling the same way for the past month or so over this stuff.

 

 

In relation to the simple topic of suppression checks,  these are approved by people outside of PD and require more than just our word that something happened, no one is getting pulled over while going at 80km/h for a suppression check without there first being evidence that they are affiliated with a gang being suppressed - if you're trying to claim that you are, you're either lying or you've forgotten some interaction you've had which has resulted in you being labelled as affiliated with a suppressed gang. That said you're more than welcome to pursue IC avenues if you feel that PD's actions could be considered IC harassment.

I'd like to invite you to try to roleplay as a criminal with one of the organizations you listed, after which you can give your opinion on it thx 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Kayta

[Yeager]

4 hours ago, Apex said:

For the OOC toxicity part of things, let's just look at it from the crims perspective for once. I've had this X person and we were fighting for as long as I can remember, and as all crim wars go, there was a lot of reporting and ooc toxicity involved. Suddenly and overnight this person is back in uniform and now suppressing my gang that wasn't even made when he was round. Like yeah no shit I'm gonna think he's targeting me (Hypothetically)