Kill Yourself - An ECRP Discussion

[Chrisy]

3 minutes ago, Bakmeel said:

Thank you for making a considerate reply. Merrry Christmas.

Dude he said the gamer word.

 

[Osborn]

Just now, Chrisy said:

Dude he said the gamer word.

 

As a homosexual, I granted myself the pass!

[Bala]

Top marks, I take the time to create a serious discussion topic that is something actually different from the hordes of "the state of.." threads and people, including staff members decide to turn it into a meme.

I should have expected as much really and I think I'm more disappointed in myself for thinking it would be anything other than what it ended up being. 

This can be closed, thank you to those people who took the discussion seriously, even if you didn't agree with the course of action.

 

[Osborn]

 

16 minutes ago, Bala said:

Top marks, I take the time to create a serious discussion topic that is something actually different from the hordes of "the state of.." threads and people, including staff members decide to turn it into a meme.

I should have expected as much really and I think I'm more disappointed in myself for thinking it would be anything other than what it ended up being. 

This can be closed, thank you to those people who took the discussion seriously, even if you didn't agree with the course of action.

 

Hey Bala, as I said, I'll review this thread closely!

This basically means that I'll decide if I want to bring it up to Senior Staff to see if it's something we want to have implemented. I am sorry that you feel that your discussion was memed on! I thought I was pretty clear!

[Jett_J]

I'll be looking into this myself as well.

[Phantas]

I'll also be joining these gentlemen into looking into it by opening a non-profit investigation into the matter!

[Phantas]

Also 

 

[Frewer]

While we are at it can we ban the use of swear words 

[zooke1]

Completely agree with Bala, anything along the lines of ''Kill yourself'' should be against the rules. In my 4.5 years on the server, I have met very few people that can roleplay and stay in character, not being affected OOCly at all, meaning that most people that say these words and/or racial, homophobic slurs, they are probably angry oocly as well. It's just the sad reality that people can be so mean to eachother over a game.

[zooke1]

On 12/23/2022 at 3:04 AM, LucasJHughes said:

I don't think anymore restrictions on what I can say in-character on a video game role-play server will be beneficial, there is already restrictions in place, adding more on top of this will cause many people to have to constantly hold back during RP scenarios. Overall if an individual is getting affecting by what is said in character on GTA 5 I believe they have more important things to deal with rather than to continue playing.

I feel really sorry if this would make you ''hold back'' during roleplay. Hmm maybe roleplay without using slurs only, it would be beneficial to everyone! 

[Antonio_Colombo]

16 minutes ago, zooke1 said:

I feel really sorry if this would make you ''hold back'' during roleplay. Hmm maybe roleplay without using slurs only, it would be beneficial to everyone! 

In my opinion people are not so much angry about the fact that they cannot say to someone that he is maggot or to kill themselves, i believe they just don't like the fact that they get controlled what they can and cannot say, on surface yeah, it is limiting what one can say or do, but at the deep end of this iceberg, issue is about control and how it is enforced.  And it also does not mean that everyone uses them 24/7, but what will be disallowed next? If someone gets offended by word "boiler" or "cyclothrone" then it also will be banned? It is silly and blatant attempt to fight consequences and not root cause. I can bet that there would not even be such discussions if there would be quicker updates to what was teased to loyal players even years ago... (I don't blame devs, I can't comprehend on how hard it is to keep up all of this by only 2 people, more dev-power would solve this problem, but that is not something I have any knowledge as of why it is what it is at this time). Shortly speaking, in my personal view it is unnecessary to limit role play. If people can't take it, there is other games or things to do. 

Edited December 24, 2022 by Antonio_Colombo

[zooke1]

14 minutes ago, Antonio_Colombo said:

In my opinion people are not so much angry about the fact that they cannot say to someone that he is maggot or to kill themselves, i believe they just don't like the fact that they get controlled what they can and cannot say, on surface yeah, it is limiting what one can say or do, but at the deep end of this iceberg, issue is about control and how it is enforced.  And it also does not mean that everyone uses them 24/7, but what will be disallowed next? If someone gets offended by word "boiler" or "cyclothrone" then it also will be banned? It is silly and blatant attempt to fight consequences and not root cause. I can bet that there would not even be such discussions if there would be quicker updates to what was teased to loyal players even years ago... (I don't blame devs, I can't comprehend on how hard it is to keep up all of this by only 2 people, more dev-power would solve this problem, but that is not something I have any knowledge as of why it is what it is at this time). Shortly speaking, in my personal view it is unnecessary to limit role play. If people can't take it, there is other games or things to do. 

Same thing I can say about you, if you can't roleplay without making certain statements, there's other games and things to do/play! Enjoy!

[Captain Tofu]

14 minutes ago, zooke1 said:

I feel really sorry if this would make you ''hold back'' during roleplay. Hmm maybe roleplay without using slurs only, it would be beneficial to everyone! 

I don't feel this should be a strongly enforced rule, but just a general "out of respect" kind of thing.

There's situations that can really get out of hand, especially on criminal characters that will get you mad and angry.

Roleplaying is for most of us a way to experience an extraordinary life in a totally fantastic but realistic world and it ruins the immersion even more if we have to stop and think about what we say in a particular situation that's taking us over so many different emotions.

There's so many times where I've stopped and thought about OOC limitations to my IC actions, I don't feel we need to add people's feelings on top of that, that's... just the way it is.

Over all that, I've rarely noticed someone saying that kind of comments in my 5+ years on the server. Maybe PD get the most of it, but it's all IC and I feel totally justified to say such things IC after facing an arrested dropping you down 2 hours+ of playtime, 20k in fines and your car in impound.

Maybe we should make everyone rich so that those that live in poverty OOC shouldn't have to face it on the server as well.
Should maybe remove drugs as well since some people might have issues with drug usage OOCly, or alcohol for that matter.

This is not a widespread issue and we don't need to treat it that way, there might only be a select few people that are living thru hard times and go on GTA to escape. If any IC comments make them feel a certain way, there's always /b to explain yourself and make the other person understand your situation. If the abuse continues then that might be subject to the OOC toxicity rule.
 

[froggytommy]

Disagree. As someone who suffered from depression for years hearing those words only make me laugh. If you're killing yourself over someone in a video game then maybe that's just natural selection. 

If words used in an RP scenario really affect your real life thoughts then it seems RP is not the place for you, infact the internet itself should be entirely avoided if you're in that much of a sensitive state.

Like you mentioned, saying this to someone IRL is different, and if this was said in an RP scenario then that's metagaming and abusive language, but personally you wouldn't catch me stressing over it in RP or out.

Edited December 25, 2022 by froggytommy

[Jonaseriksen07]

What's next? We gonna be banning weapons, driving above the speeding limit, alcohol use, drug use, eca eca. 

People can find good arguments to ban everything.

Where is this gonna end?

[Osborn]

3 hours ago, Jonaseriksen07 said:

What's next? We gonna be banning weapons, driving above the speeding limit, alcohol use, drug use, eca eca. 

People can find good arguments to ban everything.

Where is this gonna end?

wtf

[Jett_J]

5 hours ago, Jonaseriksen07 said:

What's next? We gonna be banning weapons, driving above the speeding limit, alcohol use, drug use, eca eca. 

People can find good arguments to ban everything.

Where is this gonna end?

Personally I'm all in favor of banning eca eca.

[SaltyPython]

18 hours ago, froggytommy said:

Disagree. As someone who suffered from depression for years hearing those words only make me laugh. If you're killing yourself over someone in a video game then maybe that's just natural selection. 

If words used in an RP scenario really affect your real life thoughts then it seems RP is not the place for you, infact the internet itself should be entirely avoided if you're in that much of a sensitive state.

Like you mentioned, saying this to someone IRL is different, and if this was said in an RP scenario then that's metagaming and abusive language, but personally you wouldn't catch me stressing over it in RP or out.

Roleplay servers tend to attract people who want to escape real life for some reason or another, and those people may already have a fragile state of mind coming in. That's just how it is, some people use this server as a form of escapism from horrible shit in their lives already.

Just because you're someone who has suffered from depression and is not affected by something like this, does not mean that anyone else with depression won't be affected by someone telling them to go kill themselves. Saying this is natural selection is needlessly cruel - people can't choose what they get affected by.

99 times out of 100, whenever I've heard "go kill yourself" in a roleplay scenario, it comes from someone who is particularly salty after some aggravating situation they were just in, no, they aren't "enriching" their character in any way by telling someone to end themselves, they're just letting off steam after "losing". Most times. Not admitting this and trying to pretend as if it's some "cool" aspect of your character is disingenuous.

Personally, someone screaming "kill yourself" into their mic to me? I don't give a shit, I actually get a kick out of it. However, as a community, shouldn't we be mindful of its other members? As Bala and a few other people have said, you don't know what someone is dealing with behind that screen, whether it's recurring anxiety or depression/suicidal tendecies, or an event that has caused the former to occur. As mentioned before, some people use this server as escapism.

I don't know whether it should be banned - maybe it should - but it should definitely be limited, and the admin team should at least look on a case-by-case basis at blatant efforts by players to try to distress someone. It's very obvious when that's the case - just like when someone says the gay f slur or the n-word. In general, it should be discouraged.

IMO anyways, I'm not even an active member here but yknow whatever, this is an interesting topic, and seeing some people's replies here being so uncaring toward their fellow people is fucking disheartening.

[Phantas]

10 minutes ago, SaltyPython said:

Roleplay servers tend to attract people who want to escape real life for some reason or another, and those people may already have a fragile state of mind coming in. That's just how it is, some people use this server as a form of escapism from horrible shit in their lives already.

Just because you're someone who has suffered from depression and is not affected by something like this, does not mean that anyone else with depression won't be affected by someone telling them to go kill themselves. Saying this is natural selection is needlessly cruel - people can't choose what they get affected by.

99 times out of 100, whenever I've heard "go kill yourself" in a roleplay scenario, it comes from someone who is particularly salty after some aggravating situation they were just in, no, they aren't "enriching" their character in any way by telling someone to end themselves, they're just letting off steam after "losing". Most times. Not admitting this and trying to pretend as if it's some "cool" aspect of your character is disingenuous.

Personally, someone screaming "kill yourself" into their mic to me? I don't give a shit, I actually get a kick out of it. However, as a community, shouldn't we be mindful of its other members? As Bala and a few other people have said, you don't know what someone is dealing with behind that screen, whether it's recurring anxiety or depression/suicidal tendecies, or an event that has caused the former to occur. As mentioned before, some people use this server as escapism.

I don't know whether it should be banned - maybe it should - but it should definitely be limited, and the admin team should at least look on a case-by-case basis at blatant efforts by players to try to distress someone. It's very obvious when that's the case - just like when someone says the gay f slur or the n-word. In general, it should be discouraged.

IMO anyways, I'm not even an active member here but yknow whatever, this is an interesting topic, and seeing some people's replies here being so uncaring toward their fellow people is fucking disheartening.

I feel like thats you making a lot of assumptions to come to conclusions. Which I've seen snr admins in the past directly discourage and be used as reasoning behind denying reports. We should always assume everyone is in character until it is clearly obvious they are not by refusing to respect and follow the rules. In short I am saying stop being soft cause people just better at rping there characters emotions than you. Jit. 

[SaltyPython]

10 hours ago, Phantas said:

I feel like thats you making a lot of assumptions to come to conclusions. Which I've seen snr admins in the past directly discourage and be used as reasoning behind denying reports. We should always assume everyone is in character until it is clearly obvious they are not by refusing to respect and follow the rules. In short I am saying stop being soft cause people just better at rping there characters emotions than you. Jit. 

I really, truly don't care when it's said to me - I've been RPing since SAMP, 2008/9, I've heard it thousands of times, I'll hear it some more - I just think that the pros here outweigh the cons straight up, the chance you seriously affect someone is not worth the extra "personality" you give to your character by telling someone to commit suicide which, c'mon, level with me here, when it's said - it's mainly said to try to get a rise out of people or make them feel bad.

I also personally feel like you're a bad roleplayer if you have to resort to saying "kill yourself" when your character is angry, be more inventive y'know?

Anyways, appreciate your opinion - genuinely, it's an important discussion to have.

[Bala]

Comments like "We gonna be banning weapons, driving above the speeding limit, alcohol use, drug use, eca eca." are nothing but ridiculous over-exaggerations really. If you really cannot draw the line between using slurs and telling someone to kill themselves when you well know is done to provoke that person OOCly from the other areas and themes of roleplay then that's a little short-sighted.

If people can refrain from roleplay fucking in public or calling each other cod-lobby slurs over VOIP, then you can do without telling someone to kill themselves, is it really that big of an ask? The reality is, the same kind of people thinking this is soft or ridiculous or unjust or infringing their rights would be the same sort of individuals that for any slight to their character would be on the forums themselves cooking up a storm. 

If some people in this community have shown anything besides their intolerance or OOC civility for fellow community members that might be living in situations quite different to theirs, it's that they're not incapable of handling things as they just naturally are. 

If I thought for a second that everyone in this server could actually handle the server being an accurate portrayal of the things that are said and done in real life, then I wouldn't have ever suggested any kind of partial censorship. But the reality is, there are some individuals and groups and demographics in Eclipse who are in need of some safeguarding so that they can be a part of this as much as anyone else.

If you are someone that is comfortable enough in themselves that being insulted or exposed to toxic negativity doesn't phase you, I do love that for you. At the same time, most of us have certain limitations but will let quite a bit go. There is also that group of people who may or may not represent certain demographics that need to feel comfortable to play here and in order for that to happen, certain compromises have to be made.

The irony of the comment I mentioned is that I'd love to see more violent roleplay, I don't mind the speeding and I think people using more alcohol and drugs in the server would be great. What isn't great however is telling someone to kill themselves because you're trying to get a rise out of the person behind the character. That's all I feel I gotta say on the subject to be honest.

 

[Bakmeel]

After discussing this topic further amongst senior staff we have come to the conclusion that our current rules cover this issue sufficiently already and no changes need to be made.
 

7. IC and OOC Interactions

Offensive Language, Sexual, Torture, or Disgusting Roleplay Players are only allowed to engage in sexual, torture, or disgusting roleplay if all players involved including witnesses give prior OOC consent. Such roleplay should therefore not be held in public areas or areas where players commonly visit, e.g., prison/jail. Usage of ethnic and/or LGBT+ related slurs is considered disgusting roleplay and all parties involved must give prior OOC consent before it can be done. In addition, it must make roleplay sense for your character to want to use any racial slurs In Character. Racism Out-of-Character is strictly forbidden.  Players using offensive language excessively In-Character through text or VOIP must stop if a player asks for it Out-of-Character. Players are not permitted to use offensive language Out-of-Character to others.  Punishment: Anything from a warning to a permanent ban, depending on the context, severity, and occurrences.

If a player continues with this kind of behavior after they have been asked to stop, they can be reported to staff who will then deal with the situation.

 

Bakmeel