Kill Yourself - An ECRP Discussion

[Alllbyyy]

This is actually funny, if people are being that soft then you shouldn't play a 18+ game.

[Antonio_Colombo]

1 hour ago, Bala said:

Yeah but see here is the thing, it's a roleplay community, not a cod lobby. You shouldn't be put in a position where you are having to defend yourself because of your skin colour in the first place.

I get you aren't "soft" and that's great, for you, but at the same time, other people are more sensitive to that kind of language and you have to make rules based on the community, not on whether someone can argue back. 

 

KYS being a shit-talk phrase is one of the reasons that it shouldn't be used. It's internet jargon but your character in Eclipse isn't on the internet, they're in person. I don't remember watching a single piece of media where when a cop was arresting someone, the perp turned around and told them to kill themselves. They'd use racist or homophobic language, sure, but telling someone to kill themselves in Eclipse is a meta-term. I'm not saying it happens but to me, that isn't a realistic portrayal. Neither is a gang member going up to another gang member after shooting him and telling him to "get clapped retard".

I'm certainly not going to back a community that thinks people with mental health issues shouldn't be playing the game, or in fact those by extension that are offended by racism or homophobia or transphobia shouldn't play the game, just so some little edge lord can feel better about getting to people on an OOC level. 

Ultimately, what are you giving up here? The ability to tell someone to kill themselves. That's not a big ask at all is it?

But doesn't it fall for a meta gaming rule? That no IC intel can be used OOC and vice versa? Therefore if ICly someone calls someone a "bad" words, it is MG if they get mad OOC! However it is completely relevant if OOC bullying occurs, then yeah I agree matters should be taken. There should be 100% IC freedom, and it is hypocrite to allow some forms or shapes of it, and deny some other shapes of IC interactions. It is bias against one's wishes among others wishes. Maybe someone gets offended that he cannot express himself, what to do then? If in this society everyone deserves equal rights, then in this case it is inequal to them! Paradox of justice, because for some there is more justice than to others. 

Also it is hard to quantity things like "emphaty", "common sense" etc. What common sense is for one, might be chaos and absurd to other person. Just my opinion on matter. 

Edited December 22, 2022 by Antonio_Colombo

[Vepeax]

If people are seriously offended by words said in a videogame, that person should see a doctor. Or get a grip

[XeV]

Do not think a phrase in its self should just be outright banned from being said, but as a lot of other suggested "context" is key and it simply just comes down to the simple steps 1. Phrase is said 2. /b or /pm "hey do not say that makes me uncomfortable or w.e" 3. Person either says more and goes harder or stops completely 4. Report is filed for the usage after being told OOC to stop 5. End

I am defs not the most thick skinned individual but like its pixels and toddlers. Lowkey took me a good time to realize it to the full extent, but like nothing here matters at the end of the day. obviously if you are a LEO or arresting someone its a little harder to "leave" the scenario and 9/10 times your being targeted directly so I can see how it would hit harder if you login to that being thrown every day every hour. 

Easiest solution is the /b or /pm to stop and if it continues report it not to just ban it entirely. Can confirm certain phrases or the way people talk can be solved with the /pm please stop its making me uncomfortable etc...

[OBESE]

From my perspective the issue I find with use of these words, slurs etc. is not the fact that Im hurt by them, but it's the understanding that these words in these certain situations have nothing to do with RP and saying "Oh IC is IC, why you mad OOC" is just an excuse to continue to use such language. In reality when they say those things they are coming from OOC perspective, therefore it's not meant to be an "attack" on the character, but the puppet-master of the character. You know it, you can feel it in their voice and there is no other way. I refuse to believe that people who are here to properly RP would use such language because it is unnecessary.

[Bala]

1 hour ago, Alllbyyy said:

This is actually funny, if people are being that soft then you shouldn't play a 18+ game.

What's funny about it exactly? I'd consider myself to be a reasonably funny guy and I love a good joke but I'm really not getting the nuances here. What would be funny about telling someone in-game to go and kill themselves, then having that person be personally effected by it.

Say you had a brother and that brother of yours decided to take their own life. Few weeks or months later, some little shit mid-rp tells you to go kill yourself. 
That's hilarious isn't it? 

Another example, this time it's you. You've been depressed for most of your life. Times are tough, you hate yourself and feel like it'd be better if you weren't living anymore. You come on ECRP and it's fun, helps take your mind off the shit you have to deal with. Then some little prick during an RP one day keeps telling you to kill yourself over and over because they think it's funny. 
That's a proper LOL right there ain't it?

You know what, people under 18 probably shouldn't play GTA but we all know for a fact that we have teenagers on this server, probably some of them will read this or even post on it. Teenagers who are emotionally under-developed and whether they are coming on here for a giggle or using the community for an escape from a shit situation.

A little light reading will tell you that nearly 20% of U.S. high school students have reported serious thoughts of suicide and around 9% have actually gone as far as making an attempt on their own life. How many american kids do we have in this community at high school age? Potentially, a fifth of them have thought about killing themselves. A tenth of that number have actually tried to kill themselves.

Maybe you think that kind of thing is funny or those people are just being soft?

I get it, it's a big ask to consider other people, especially if you are young yourself but again, it circles back to, this is not something that people NEED to be saying to other people is it?

46 minutes ago, Vepeax said:

If people are seriously offended by words said in a videogame, that person should see a doctor. Or get a grip

You know what, I think there is some part of what you just said that makes sense. If people are in need, they should see a medical professional, absolutely.

That said though, you have a terrible understanding of how mental health can effect a person. You know absolutely nothing of negative triggers. If you encountered someone who told you they wanted to kill themselves? You wouldn't tell them to do it, would you? Chances are that they won't tell you that, they'll simply suffer in silence. Maybe you telling them to kill themselves doesn't push them over the edge, but it doesn't help them any does it?

 

This isn't me trying to get the ability to insult each other taken away, I love someone calling me a cunt. Like genuinely, I think it's hilarious. But there are certain terms and phrases that aren't acceptable, for one reason or another. Telling someone to kill themselves is one of those.

[TheCactus]

I do understand what Bala said but what we say in character is already limited by certain rules. I don't believe we should have additional restrictions.

 

20 hours ago, tuffy said:

ngl i feel like the gaming community as a whole is just getting way too soft, these are just words they arent hurtful unless you make them

At the same time, however, I specifically want to quote "these are just words they arent hurtful unless you make them".
People should be allowed to RP what they want within reason and say whatever they want.

At this time, when a sentence his shaped in way that shows a clear intent to hurt, hit or affect the individual from a point of view that has nothing to do with roleplay and playing the game, the player is going to get a warning or punishment. This has been seen in forum and in-game reports.

I believe that if someone tells your character to end his own life more than once and you, as a person, are affected by it, you should ask them to stop in PMs (I personally have no issues with that unless it becomes excessive). If they keep saying it to the same person after the PM request, they should receive a punishment, just like with gross roleplay when despite the consent, it becomes excessive.
This would mean that the consent is implied for and towards all players but when it becomes too much and you are asked to stop, you should stop.

[LucasJHughes]

I don't think anymore restrictions on what I can say in-character on a video game role-play server will be beneficial, there is already restrictions in place, adding more on top of this will cause many people to have to constantly hold back during RP scenarios. Overall if an individual is getting affecting by what is said in character on GTA 5 I believe they have more important things to deal with rather than to continue playing.

[Herbo]

Hello, I'd just like to add my opinion into this,

 

ECRP is a wonderful place that people can load into and just be out of the real world, someone might be dealing with suicidal thoughts, depression, anxiety or anything that's damaging to themselves and they come to play ECRP so they can get away from it and just have fun. For that reason, I think it needs to be more looked at what IC things are being said that could harm people on an OOC note.

Someone is not considered "soft" if they let things that happen ICly affect them on an OOC level as for a lot of people ECRP is their "life". They love gaming and being able to hangout with their friends as I know some people have made lifelong friends from this server. ECRP is more then just some Roleplay server it's a place people go to just "disconnect" from the world and their problems. 

Now I am not saying ban every word and let nothing happen but I think that there needs to be limitations. An example I thought of that was brought up already was really in the "clapper" community on the server. The amount of times you just see people be like "Get smoked you fucking retard" before they get finished is just unheard of and I really see no point to it and what it provides in term of RP for people on the server.

I have been playing GTA RP since roughly the end of June and it's some of the most fun times I've ever had, but I have also had terrible experiences with people that just makes you not want to RP. I think the comment about the server getting "soft" is just overall kinda sad. There's ZERO reason to be racist or homophobic to people as it's just unecessary.

The final thing I will say is that I agree the server's gotten "soft" in regards to policing poor RP standards and like Corbyn said, the state of RP of some people make's you want to avoid RP with certain people. There's some people on this server that I absolutely love getting the ability to login every day to hangout with them and see their RP as they create fun RP that makes me laugh while maintaining a high level of RP. Then there's people that make me not want to play because of how they RP.

I think people should be more encouraged to start doing /goodrp and /badrp or even make some type of "reward" for submitting actual answers to them and potentially make it where players can see their /goodrp and /badrp anonymously so they can see what some people are disliking or liking about their roleplay so they can get better.

Overall I really agree with Dezzy's original post and think terms like "Kill yourself" should fall under OOC and IC interactions to promote good fun RP for everyone.
 

Edited December 23, 2022 by Herbo

[Herbo]

5 hours ago, XeV said:

Easiest solution is the /b or /pm to stop and if it continues report it not to just ban it entirely. Can confirm certain phrases or the way people talk can be solved with the /pm please stop its making me uncomfortable etc...

The problem is from what I know, there's no rule stating that if you're asking to stop OOCly you have to unless it's Slurs or something of that matter.

I know for a fact I have PM'd someone before to stop saying something or stop doing it as it was making me uncomfortable and they just PM you back "IC is IC"or "Cut /pm" and it's just really unecessary.

The big thing I dislike tho is the people that are like "IC is IC" are also the people that will go on to complain that Prison timers are too long and be like "I'm being punished OOC for something I did IC". Not trying to turn this into a Prison Timer thread but just wanted to make the example that people are always gonna cherrypick phrases to get out of things such as IC is IC and only try to use those when it benefits them.

Overall, I hope staff agrees with this thread and something gets implemented.

[XeV]

2 minutes ago, Herbo said:

The problem is from what I know, there's no rule stating that if you're asking to stop OOCly you have to unless it's Slurs or something of that matter.

I know for a fact I have PM'd someone before to stop saying something or stop doing it as it was making me uncomfortable and they just PM you back "IC is IC"or "Cut /pm" and it's just really unecessary.

The big thing I dislike tho is the people that are like "IC is IC" are also the people that will go on to complain that Prison timers are too long and be like "I'm being punished OOC for something I did IC". Not trying to turn this into a Prison Timer thread but just wanted to make the example that people are always gonna cherrypick phrases to get out of things such as IC is IC and only try to use those when it benefits them.

Overall, I hope staff agrees with this thread and something gets implemented.

I've been told directly and have had to have staff intervene in a situation because I told a dude what he was saying IC was making me uncomfortable and to please stop and I too got hit with the "IC is IC and quit being soft", but if someone is making you uncomfortable you 100% can tell them to stop and if they do not get a staff member involved or report it. Seen people banned for something alone the lines of "not a positive contribution to the community' at the end of the day this a gtarp server with an objective for people to enjoy themselves and have fun If you are not having fun cause some dude is telling you to kill yourself I am sure staff would gladly love to tell that person to just stop.

Asking someone to stop telling you to kill yourself seems to me at least like a reasonable request. Nothing needs to be implemented really just use what is already there. Tell them to stop if it makes you THAT uncomfortable if they continue go down the same old road of gathering evidence in screenshots or video recording, even ask them again then just report it IC and then forums if needed. It is clear the intention of the party if they deem it necessary to be like "IC is IC" and continue to make you uncomfortable under the protection of some weird mindset.

[hrxvey]

15 minutes ago, Herbo said:

"IC is IC"or "Cut /pm" and it's just really unecessary.

if they continue after you ask them not to, report them. simple as

[sNo0BbZz]

PLEASE, stop thinking of more ways to punish community members by adding more rules and restricting speech. 

[Antonio_Colombo]

2 hours ago, XeV said:

I've been told directly and have had to have staff intervene in a situation because I told a dude what he was saying IC was making me uncomfortable and to please stop and I too got hit with the "IC is IC and quit being soft", but if someone is making you uncomfortable you 100% can tell them to stop and if they do not get a staff member involved or report it. Seen people banned for something alone the lines of "not a positive contribution to the community' at the end of the day this a gtarp server with an objective for people to enjoy themselves and have fun If you are not having fun cause some dude is telling you to kill yourself I am sure staff would gladly love to tell that person to just stop.

Asking someone to stop telling you to kill yourself seems to me at least like a reasonable request. Nothing needs to be implemented really just use what is already there. Tell them to stop if it makes you THAT uncomfortable if they continue go down the same old road of gathering evidence in screenshots or video recording, even ask them again then just report it IC and then forums if needed. It is clear the intention of the party if they deem it necessary to be like "IC is IC" and continue to make you uncomfortable under the protection of some weird mindset.

Exactly, if you can't handle what someone is saying and you are unconfortable ask them oocly to stop, if they don't then yeah report to appropriate parties. No one is forcing you to keep conversation going which you don't like, there is simple ways to avoid it, like, ignoring the abusive party, or walking your own way.

It would be a nice addition if you could /mute someone who you find abusive and harmful, then it would save valuable time of administrators so they can focus on things that are left aside (like requests, reports etc, both IG and On forums) 

If player keeps abusing /mute in a way that he / she starts oocly hunting you on say, forums, discord, then it would be worthy for a forum complaint. That way it would stay organic, and efficient. If someone who is muted tries to speak to person who muted him, he would see little /ame response over his head that player is not willing to communicate, and only /me /do etc would be seen from muted person. For example if someone whispers to the player who muted you, you would get same response but in also /ame styled response. OOC chat Can be kept, however exempt from this, so that someone who doesn't understand why is that he can't speak to someone, offended party can explain in ooc and see how it goes. 

[alexalex303]

Members of the community were previously reported and received punishments for the actions described in the original post. Nothing needs to change further than that, in my opinion. There shouldn't be a fear of saying things in-character, but that shouldn't be abused to low-key attack people out of character via in-character chat either. Server staff can review incidents on a case by case basis, a blanket ban seems excessive.

[Cyrus Raven]

I agree, people are so soft for not wanting to be told to end their lives. I too enjoy 12 year olds casually saying the n-word RPing as gangbangers. All of you are mistaken, every single person running around with stretched resolution yelling ''get clapped retard, kill yourself'' is deeply immersed in hardcore RP.

 

Let's pass a new rule. Anyone saying any homophobic, transphobic, racist, etc.. slur, including KYS can be executed on the spot.

P.S. if you cry about this rule you're soft

 

[ComradeCorbyn]

These restrictions wouldn't be necessary at all if most people in the server used realistic language in their roleplay. I honestly would not care if individuals used extremely disgusting language in roleplay, including "KYS", or other slurs. I can only speak for myself, but I would have no issue if appropriate gangs used the F slur and N word in (preferably text) roleplay. It's an uncomfortable part of roleplay.

The issue I have is that most of the players who use this language are not using it in good roleplay. Using the N word casually in speech is ENTIRELY different than downing someone after a shootout and calling them an F slur or walking up to them and saying "KYS" before killing them. If these players with incredibly poor language roleplay, who might I add are very vocal in this thread, decided to use this language only when appropriate I would see no problem not restricting it.

That being said, many of you cannot control yourself from sounding like you're playing league of legends in a roleplay game, so these restrictions seem necessary. If these players could control themselves and use such language responsibly, this would be an entirely different discussion. Sorry you want to call people the F slur after downing them in labs!

[KonaKealoha]

Definitely agree with this... As someone who has very thick skin and doesn't like censorship, I don't view this as censorship at all. I think the whole kill yourself thing, along with racism and homophobia is just, not necessary to develop a rich roleplay character. People use the façade of "roleplaying" as an excuse to say shocking things and behave badly. But gaming should be an escape for people who deal with IRL issues, such as racism, homophobia, etc... I know full well there are people who have quit Eclipse because of the insanely toxic words spewed at them by some people, and if we can keep a full server and have fun and be a bit of reprieve for someone whos life isn't as easy as ours, then I think refraining from calling someone the f word, or telling them to kill themselves, is a small price to pay. 

[Beet]

Let's just wrap the world in bubble wrap and protect people in cotton wool. 

I have little sympathy for people offended by the one-off "kill yourself" style comment. You are playing an 18+ game, one which the premise rests on a multiplicity of violence and adult themes. Provided the remark was made in the course of roleplay - so be it. If it happens on a repeated, clearly toxic basis; fair enough, file a report. We already have systems to deal with toxicity, there is no need for more censorship. The issue Bala speaks of I believe is mainly caused to the immature, belligerent children who clearly need better parenting and need a belt rather than a ban. 

I am afraid we live in a society where a backbone and decency is something becoming rarer and rarer. I am not here to babysit and panda to your needs. If my character in the course of roleplay makes remarks, it is done so in that light. Funnily, it is these same people that complain about this issue that cause it: they lack entire character concept and become quasi, childish versions of themselves. My advice? Grow up and stop causing a nuisance to the people that actually want to enjoy themselves. 

[Shwy]

14 minutes ago, Beet said:

Let's just wrap the world in bubble wrap and protect people in cotton wool. 

I have little sympathy for people offended by the one-off "kill yourself" style comment. You are playing an 18+ game, one which the premise rests on a multiplicity of violence and adult themes. Provided the remark was made in the course of roleplay - so be it. If it happens on a repeated, clearly toxic basis; fair enough, file a report. We already have systems to deal with toxicity, there is no need for more censorship. The issue Bala speaks of I believe is mainly caused to the immature, belligerent children who clearly need better parenting and need a belt rather than a ban. 

I am afraid we live in a society where a backbone and decency is something becoming rarer and rarer. I am not here to babysit and panda to your needs. If my character in the course of roleplay makes remarks, it is done so in that light. Funnily, it is these same people that complain about this issue that cause it: they lack entire character concept and become quasi, childish versions of themselves. My advice? Grow up and stop causing a nuisance to the people that actually want to enjoy themselves. 

I don't like this comment!

[Beet]

Just now, Shwy said:

I don't like this comment!

Ki~

I won't. 

[Shwy]

1 minute ago, Beet said:

Ki~

I won't. 

Kiss me?

Sorry don't swing that way brother

[Osborn]

 

10 hours ago, Cyrus Raven said:

I agree, people are so soft for not wanting to be told to end their lives. I too enjoy 12 year olds casually saying the n-word RPing as gangbangers. All of you are mistaken, every single person running around with stretched resolution yelling ''get clapped retard, kill yourself'' is deeply immersed in hardcore RP.

 

Let's pass a new rule. Anyone saying any homophobic, transphobic, racist, etc.. slur, including KYS can be executed on the spot.

P.S. if you cry about this rule you're soft

 

 I agree with this quote!

People, I'm sorry you can't call people fanatic gamers or other MW2 words on this 17+ game /s

On a more serious note, I'll review this closely!

[Bakmeel]

10 minutes ago, FatherOsborn said:

 

 I agree with this quote!

People, I'm sorry you can't call people fanatic gamers or other MW2 words on this 17+ game /s

On a more serious note, I'll review this closely!

Thank you for making a considerate reply. Merrry Christmas.

[Shwy]

4 minutes ago, Bakmeel said:

Thank you for making a considerate reply. Merrry Christmas.

You're welcome (on behalf of Osborn)